Lets Reinstall Morrowind: You can't post here. Enemies are nearby.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Lets Reinstall Morrowind: You can't post here. Enemies are nearby.

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Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Cubey posted:

Redoran is the only quest line in Morrowind that I only finished once. So boring. Even the Cult is better.

This is the most incorrect TES opinion I have ever seen, and I have seen people who think Oblivion is the best TES game.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 00:17

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# ? May 5, 2024 03:13

ambient oatmeal: Jun 23, 2012

Cubey posted:

It'd be more interesting if each player could join a rival house. Except nobody wants to join anything but Telvanni so maybe that would not work out so well.

Hlaalu backstabbing is pretty great, I always remembered the early mission to kill a rival's egg queen, you could just kill the queen and take the reward, or talk to him and get a bigger one. Or do both and get an even bigger stack of cash on top of that.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 00:28

codo27: Apr 21, 2008

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

The whole place seemed strange and sinister.

And despite all that, "Wealth beyond measure, outlander"

# ? Jun 24, 2015 00:32

Gyshall: Feb 24, 2009; Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.

Also mushroom houses

# ? Jun 24, 2015 03:17

prometheusbound2: Jul 5, 2010

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

I posted about it in the Fallout 4 hype thread, but the reason I think Morrowind stands out so much in my mind is that the game's plot walks a fine line between maintaining narrative momentum and giving you enough slack to feel alright about going out and exploring, picking up some side quests, putg in work for a few guilds, etc. in a way that not only feels natural to the progression of your character, but to the plot.

Take Oblivion, for example: In Oblivion, from the moment you build your potato-faced PC, poo poo is hitting the fan. You're escaping with the emperor himself, watching him get assassinated, and then having the Amulet of Kings (the key to repelling a daedric invasion and saving the world) pushed into your hands. At virtually no point in the main quest does it feel like it would make sense to go wander out into the woods, join a guild, or help some pissant farmer with his goblin problem (except, perhaps, for when you need to go out and find a Daedric prince to work for). In Skyrim, you're escaping under attack from a dragon in the midst of a civil war. With the abrupt return of these creatures and their tendency to show up and destroy villages and raze the countryside, it's sort of difficult to be like, "Eh, it can wait--gotta go find some ingredients for this idiot alchemist".

Obviously in both examples, there's nothing mechanically stopping you from putting the main quest on hold so you can hunt vampires or help the Mages Guild. There's no countdown or clock (like, say, Fallout 1's water chip) that will lead to an endgame. It just feels weird because the game is actively reminding you, through dragon attacks and Oblivion gates, that time is of the essence--you need to find Martin and warn the villagers and bolster the defenses.

For as small as the world actually was, Morrowind felt absolutely packed full of people and places and stories that were largely unrelated to the main quest, or even secondary quests like the "main" guilds. What really added to this was the fact that the game didn't smash you over the head with everything it had to offer. The Morag Tong, for example, was a genuinely hidden guild that the average player might never encounter; for the most part, vampires were rare and hid in remote parts of the world, adding to their mystery (rather than showing up all over the drat place like mudcrabs or wolves). Winning your way into various organizations wasn't handed to you like in subsequent games (compare it to Skyrim's Thieves Guild, which has an NPC who practically corners and shouts at you to recruit you for the guild regardless of what sort of character you're playing). Entire areas, like forbidden shrines, Telvanni regions, and parts of Vivec would balk or flat-out reject your presence unless you bent over backwards to appease them. In most cases there was nothing really stopping you from going into these areas anyway--no magically unpickable door or gamey, invisible wall or prompt saying you're not playing by the rules--but it wouldn't stop NPCs from trying to kill you if they caught you, either. Getting around was thought of in in-game terms, whether it was actually following directions to navigate the terrain or thinking, "well, I could climb the ranks a bit in the temple so they won't immediately kill me for entering the Ministry of Truth...or I can sneak in. Or kill everything."

There was a constant sense of concealment in every corner of the game, like every NPC is hiding something, whether it's getting in over their head by smuggling ash statues, worshipping Dagoth Ur, or belonging to a hidden cult tucked away in some dark corner of the world--or even right under your nose. The whole place seemed strange and sinister. Between that and the relatively hostile demeanor of many characters, the game really gave the impression that you'd have to work to win its approval (if it was even possible) rather than having an NPC shout their secrets at you, doing a few quests, and suddenly becoming the King of all Guilds.

And the game let you break it.

What you're describing is exactly why I fell in love with RPGs as a genre. I've played nearly every RPG, but my first and most beloved serious RPGs(Quest for Glory was technically my first) were Fallout 2, Morrowind, and Baldur's Gate. What I loved about those games is they gave you an ability to explore and experience a world on your own terms. Skyrim didn't do this nearly as well as Morrowind, you're right, but its still competent about it.

To me, the biggest disappointment in Mass Effect 3 wasn't the ending, it was that all the exploration and meandering found in its predecessors was pretty much eliminated in favor of shooting and cut scenes.

"Set piece" should be a dirty word in RPG design.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 05:23

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

prometheusbound2 posted:

To me, the biggest disappointment in Mass Effect 3 wasn't the ending, it was that all the exploration and meandering found in its predecessors was pretty much eliminated in favor of shooting and cut scenes.

The actual biggest problem with Mass Effect 3 was SPACE NINJA

# ? Jun 24, 2015 05:54

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

Cream-of-Plenty posted:

I posted about it in the Fallout 4 hype thread, but the reason I think Morrowind stands out so much in my mind is that the game's plot walks a fine line between maintaining narrative momentum and giving you enough slack to feel alright about going out and exploring, picking up some side quests, putg in work for a few guilds, etc. in a way that not only feels natural to the progression of your character, but to the plot.

Take Oblivion, for example: In Oblivion, from the moment you build your potato-faced PC, poo poo is hitting the fan. You're escaping with the emperor himself, watching him get assassinated, and then having the Amulet of Kings (the key to repelling a daedric invasion and saving the world) pushed into your hands. At virtually no point in the main quest does it feel like it would make sense to go wander out into the woods, join a guild, or help some pissant farmer with his goblin problem (except, perhaps, for when you need to go out and find a Daedric prince to work for). In Skyrim, you're escaping under attack from a dragon in the midst of a civil war. With the abrupt return of these creatures and their tendency to show up and destroy villages and raze the countryside, it's sort of difficult to be like, "Eh, it can wait--gotta go find some ingredients for this idiot alchemist".

Obviously in both examples, there's nothing mechanically stopping you from putting the main quest on hold so you can hunt vampires or help the Mages Guild. There's no countdown or clock (like, say, Fallout 1's water chip) that will lead to an endgame. It just feels weird because the game is actively reminding you, through dragon attacks and Oblivion gates, that time is of the essence--you need to find Martin and warn the villagers and bolster the defenses.

For as small as the world actually was, Morrowind felt absolutely packed full of people and places and stories that were largely unrelated to the main quest, or even secondary quests like the "main" guilds. What really added to this was the fact that the game didn't smash you over the head with everything it had to offer. The Morag Tong, for example, was a genuinely hidden guild that the average player might never encounter; for the most part, vampires were rare and hid in remote parts of the world, adding to their mystery (rather than showing up all over the drat place like mudcrabs or wolves). Winning your way into various organizations wasn't handed to you like in subsequent games (compare it to Skyrim's Thieves Guild, which has an NPC who practically corners and shouts at you to recruit you for the guild regardless of what sort of character you're playing). Entire areas, like forbidden shrines, Telvanni regions, and parts of Vivec would balk or flat-out reject your presence unless you bent over backwards to appease them. In most cases there was nothing really stopping you from going into these areas anyway--no magically unpickable door or gamey, invisible wall or prompt saying you're not playing by the rules--but it wouldn't stop NPCs from trying to kill you if they caught you, either. Getting around was thought of in in-game terms, whether it was actually following directions to navigate the terrain or thinking, "well, I could climb the ranks a bit in the temple so they won't immediately kill me for entering the Ministry of Truth...or I can sneak in. Or kill everything."

There was a constant sense of concealment in every corner of the game, like every NPC is hiding something, whether it's getting in over their head by smuggling ash statues, worshipping Dagoth Ur, or belonging to a hidden cult tucked away in some dark corner of the world--or even right under your nose. The whole place seemed strange and sinister. Between that and the relatively hostile demeanor of many characters, the game really gave the impression that you'd have to work to win its approval (if it was even possible) rather than having an NPC shout their secrets at you, doing a few quests, and suddenly becoming the King of all Guilds.

And the game let you break it.

The two or three times I tried playing Oblivion, I tried hardcore role-playing it for exactly this reason. My IC reasoning was: I just escaped from jail, I was perhaps the only living eye-witness to the Emperor's assassination, I needed to do the equivalent of Witness Protection: instead of going anywhere near Chorrol or Kvatch, I ran as far north as I could, settling in Bruma and hoping the trail of anyone looking for me would run cold. It was actually a kind of fun way to play. After starting the Thieve's and Mage's Guild questlines, and wandering the countryside and forts between Cheydinhall and Leyawin, I would eventually get enough courage to make it back to the Imperial City, but only as a prize-fighter in the Arena, while I kept my head low and listened for rumors about the Emperor.

If I could have disabled the main quest altogether, I would have.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 09:19

Pikestaff: Feb 17, 2013; Came here to bark at you

I enjoyed Skyrim quite a bit but Morrowind was definitely special when it came to the world. I have a hard time explaining it, but something about how the world hated you made it a challenge to make it love you, which in turn made you fall in love with the world.

With so many other games, the world is designed for the player to love save. But Vvardenfell doesn't give a poo poo about you.

I love it :allears:

# ? Jun 24, 2015 10:42

Proletarian Mango: May 21, 2011

And then it got dp'd by red mountain and the argonians :smith:

Isn't it more or less an uninhabitable hellscape now by the time of skyrim?

# ? Jun 24, 2015 15:50

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Nope! That poo poo introduced by the novels was retconned right out in Skyrim.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 16:04

Gobblecoque: Sep 6, 2011

Sky Shadowing posted:

Nope! That poo poo introduced by the novels was retconned right out in Skyrim.

Unless Skyrim decided to nuke Morrowind in a different way, I'm pretty sure it wasn't retconned what with all the dunmer refugees and Solstheim being covered in ash and inhabited by Redoran and Telvanni (including master Neloth if I remember).

# ? Jun 24, 2015 16:12

Rhjamiz: Oct 28, 2007

It is mentioned in Skyrim somewhere that the Argonians did in fact sack Morrowind as retribution for all the slavery (Argonian Supremacy :black101:

). One of the in-game books mentions it I think, I just forget which one.

Honestly I am actually very curious what an Argonian-Occupied Morrowind even looks like. What little we see of Argonian Culture doesn't feel imperialist or colonial (though I am sure that is the route Bethesda would lazily take), it'd be like having a bunch of Druids come and take over your town. What do they even do?

Rhjamiz fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jun 24, 2015

# ? Jun 24, 2015 16:55

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Sorry, I meant that the novel idea that Morrowind is completely an ashen wasteland controlled only by Argonians and the dark elves are scattered to the wind and Solstheim was toned down to Morrowind is still habitable, and the Argonians were driven back by House Redoran to at least farther south than Mournhold.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 17:05

Call Me Charlie: Dec 3, 2005; by Smythe

Gobblecoque posted:

Unless Skyrim decided to nuke Morrowind in a different way, I'm pretty sure it wasn't retconned what with all the dunmer refugees and Solstheim being covered in ash and inhabited by Redoran and Telvanni (including master Neloth if I remember).

I'm replaying Skyrim again and I actually ran into a journal that covers part of this.

Is this the end of all things? Are we to die by the cruel barbed blades of the Argonian invasion force? After surviving the Red Year, struggling to dig from the ash and the rubble, and burying the thousands that died, is this to be our epitaph? The irony of our demise glows brighter than Masser on the summer solstice. We brought this upon ourselves; the Argonians simply answering a rallying cry incited by a millennia of suffrage imposed by my kind. And so here I sit, in the crumbling basement of our family home while a thousand booted feet echo above me and the screams of the dying find their way to my ears. So falls House Telvanni.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Lymdrenn_Telvanni%27s_Journal

So Red Year from the mountain erupting and Argonian invasion force afterwards.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 17:09

axolotl farmer: May 17, 2007; Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

# ? Jun 24, 2015 17:37

Guildenstern Mother: Mar 31, 2010; Why walk when you can ride?

Call Me Charlie posted:

I'm replaying Skyrim again and I actually ran into a journal that covers part of this.

Is this the end of all things? Are we to die by the cruel barbed blades of the Argonian invasion force? After surviving the Red Year, struggling to dig from the ash and the rubble, and burying the thousands that died, is this to be our epitaph? The irony of our demise glows brighter than Masser on the summer solstice. We brought this upon ourselves; the Argonians simply answering a rallying cry incited by a millennia of suffrage imposed by my kind. And so here I sit, in the crumbling basement of our family home while a thousand booted feet echo above me and the screams of the dying find their way to my ears. So falls House Telvanni.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Lymdrenn_Telvanni%27s_Journal

So Red Year from the mountain erupting and Argonian invasion force afterwards.

That journal is bs, argonians cant even wear boots

# ? Jun 24, 2015 19:29

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Even if Red Mountain totally hosed up Vvardenfel itself, you'd have to think the channel between it and mainland Morrowind would mitigate the damage somewhat for the mainlanders. The island bit of Morrowind was proper hosed, but the remaining Dunmer from the mainland are now trying to rebuild it.

# ? Jun 24, 2015 21:09

Shibawanko: Feb 13, 2013

I just mentally file everything made and written after Bloodmoon under "fanfic poo poo". Dagoth Ur was defeated and my player character is still hanging out in Tel Uvirith.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 13:27

Unbelievably Fat Man: Jun 1, 2000; Innocent people. I could never hurt innocent people.

I'm kinda glad Vvardenfell got toasted. It's like you can't go home again, even if your home is made out of chitin from giant bugs, and Oblivion/Skyrim can't poop all over everything that made Morrowind great. Dragonborn is nice and nostalgic but man did I ever love seeing that column of smoke rising off Red Mountain.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 13:36

Edmond Dantes: Sep 12, 2007; Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

I recently reinstalled Morrowind with MGSO3 to see if I could finally get into it; got out of Seyda Neen, stabbed some dudes in a cave and made it to the Imperial Fort a ways down the road.

I have to be honest, the walking/running speed is killing me, and every time I run it seems I end up running (no pun intended) into enemies right as my stamina hits 0 and then I'm (more) useless in combat. Will I destroy my ~vanilla experience~ if I cram a "walk faster" mod in there? Because it's seriously zapping my will to keep playing.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 13:45

ambient oatmeal: Jun 23, 2012

Edmond Dantes posted:

I recently reinstalled Morrowind with MGSO3 to see if I could finally get into it; got out of Seyda Neen, stabbed some dudes in a cave and made it to the Imperial Fort a ways down the road.

I have to be honest, the walking/running speed is killing me, and every time I run it seems I end up running (no pun intended) into enemies right as my stamina hits 0 and then I'm (more) useless in combat. Will I destroy my ~vanilla experience~ if I cram a "walk faster" mod in there? Because it's seriously zapping my will to keep playing.

Do it, also a lot of the faster walking mods change it so you dont lose fatigue for running so you won't be terrible at combat when you find things.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 14:24

Mooktastical: Jan 8, 2008

Edmond Dantes posted:

I recently reinstalled Morrowind with MGSO3 to see if I could finally get into it; got out of Seyda Neen, stabbed some dudes in a cave and made it to the Imperial Fort a ways down the road.

I have to be honest, the walking/running speed is killing me, and every time I run it seems I end up running (no pun intended) into enemies right as my stamina hits 0 and then I'm (more) useless in combat. Will I destroy my ~vanilla experience~ if I cram a "walk faster" mod in there? Because it's seriously zapping my will to keep playing.

One of the first things veteran MW players do is grab an item that boosts movement speed and applies a debuff to your character, only the debuff can be ignored by casting a 1 second duration 100% magic resistance spell. So if you achieve the same effect a different way, it's really not all that different from the ~vanilla experience~.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 19:37

Cerebulon: Mar 29, 2010; Destroyer of Worlds*
(*No worlds were harmed in the making of this title.)

I can barely play without the Boots of Blinding Speed + de-debuff anymore, but at the same time it does make me almost obscenely fast, and the super sped up walking animation/footstep sound effects are incredibly silly. A mod would probably be wise, although the effect would probably be the same silliness at high levels.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 19:41

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Get a mod, even I as a grizzled Morrowind vet can't loving stand how slow you are and that running drains stamina.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 19:51

Cream-of-Plenty: Apr 21, 2010; "The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

I'm a total weirdo in that regard because I actually even installed a mod for New Vegas that causes you to run out of breath depending on how long you've been running or sprinting for, how hungry/thirsty/sleepy you are, and whether you're on flat ground or running up hills or slopes.

Morrowind's fatigue system totally works with me.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 19:57

Air Skwirl: May 13, 2007; Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Edmond Dantes posted:

I recently reinstalled Morrowind with MGSO3 to see if I could finally get into it; got out of Seyda Neen, stabbed some dudes in a cave and made it to the Imperial Fort a ways down the road.

I have to be honest, the walking/running speed is killing me, and every time I run it seems I end up running (no pun intended) into enemies right as my stamina hits 0 and then I'm (more) useless in combat. Will I destroy my ~vanilla experience~ if I cram a "walk faster" mod in there? Because it's seriously zapping my will to keep playing.

Nah, definitely go for it, and like the other guy said, get one of the "go faster" mods that makes it so running doesn't damage stamina, because that's a huge pain in the rear end. Or use the alchemy tricky to have infinite restore stamina potions.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 20:11

Edmond Dantes: Sep 12, 2007; Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

Thanks guys. I got 2 in the end: run faster, and running does not consume stamina (couldn't fine one that did both things, odddly, but I didn't look too much), and it's much better like this.

I knew about the boots of blinding speed -altough I don't know whare to find them- but didn't know you could avoid the "blinding" part, thought they were just a fun world thing like the dude that falls from the sky with the jump scroll. Which also is actually useful/exploitable if you're a monster at this game, but eh. :v:

# ? Jun 25, 2015 20:18

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

I grabbed Morrowind during the sale and I'm going to try playing it for the first time. The only Elder Scrolls I ever seriously played was a little bit of Skyrim, and I never made it all that far. I know nothing about the game, or the lore, or anything, so this should be interesting I think. I have no idea what the hell I am doing, and I've been staring at the character creation screen for a long time. This game doesn't hold my hand like Skyrim does. What am I getting myself into here :cry:

I think I want to make a magical cat. :catdrugs:

# ? Jun 25, 2015 21:01

axolotl farmer: May 17, 2007; Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

Morrowind_combat.gif

# ? Jun 25, 2015 21:36

Edmond Dantes: Sep 12, 2007; Reactor: Online
Sensors: Online
Weapons: Online

ALL SYSTEMS NOMINAL

axolotl farmer posted:

Morrowind_combat.gif

Uploaded the wrong picture there, mate.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 21:54

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

Kenzie posted:

I grabbed Morrowind during the sale and I'm going to try playing it for the first time. The only Elder Scrolls I ever seriously played was a little bit of Skyrim, and I never made it all that far. I know nothing about the game, or the lore, or anything, so this should be interesting I think. I have no idea what the hell I am doing, and I've been staring at the character creation screen for a long time. This game doesn't hold my hand like Skyrim does. What am I getting myself into here

I think I want to make a magical cat.

Unless you drop the difficulty slider way down (which is legitimate) a magical cat is gonna be pretty rough in the beginning, given how important min/maxing is at character creation. Khajiit have zero starting magic bonuses.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 22:06

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

GrumpyDoctor posted:

Unless you drop the difficulty slider way down (which is legitimate) a magical cat is gonna be pretty rough in the beginning, given how important min/maxing is at character creation. Khajiit have zero starting magic bonuses.

Those race bonuses really have that much of an effect? Maybe I can be a magical lizard then. They seem to get bonuses to that.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 23:05

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

axolotl farmer posted:

Morrowind_combat.gif

Morrowind combat is still a more enjoyable experience than Oblivion or Skyrim combat, in which every loving enemy takes a billion hits to kill because the only way Bethesda could think of to compensate for every hit always landing was to give everything way too much health.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 23:13

Air Skwirl: May 13, 2007; Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Kenzie posted:

Those race bonuses really have that much of an effect? Maybe I can be a magical lizard then. They seem to get bonuses to that.

Actually what really hurts you (especially in the long term) is the lack of bonus magicka, You might give it a try with the Atronach or an Apprentice birth signs. Even if you aren't using any mods, you should definitely get the Morrowind Code Patch though.

# ? Jun 25, 2015 23:33

Sky Shadowing: Feb 13, 2012; At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Code patch, unofficial patches at least. Morrowind isn't actually as picky as Skyrim about adding and removing mods mid-game, so once you find something that annoys you, mod it.

# ? Jun 26, 2015 00:14

Gobblecoque: Sep 6, 2011

Kenzie posted:

Those race bonuses really have that much of an effect? Maybe I can be a magical lizard then. They seem to get bonuses to that.

Aside from the magicka bonus that Skwirl talked about, the race bonuses usually aren't much of a deal in the long run, but they make a pretty big difference in the beginning. Playing a race that doesn't give any bonuses to what skills you're wanting to use will result in a lot more missed attacks, fizzled spells, and whatnot early on.

# ? Jun 26, 2015 00:20

Shibawanko: Feb 13, 2013

I just always go for marksman since it lets you shish kebab cliff racers out of the sky rather than having to wait for them. And it's the only skill where you actually have to kind of aim for your target.

# ? Jun 26, 2015 01:08

Gyshall: Feb 24, 2009; Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.

Redguard Master Race

# ? Jun 26, 2015 01:11

Cream-of-Plenty: Apr 21, 2010; "The world is a hellish place, and bad writing is destroying the quality of our suffering."

Wood Elf supremacy. Hardwood Longdong all day everyday.

# ? Jun 26, 2015 01:21

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# ? May 5, 2024 03:13

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

Argonians get a huge bonus to spears, aka the Coolest Weapons, so they are the coolest race.

# ? Jun 26, 2015 01:30

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Lets Reinstall Morrowind: You can't post here. Enemies are nearby.

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