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PaintVagrant
Apr 13, 2007

~ the ultimate driving machine ~
Maybe swap the nisse and a bulleteer? Nisse should be mostly a good ARO piece.

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DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.

I would rather run something like this.

PanOceania
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 12 0 0
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (15)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4)
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (15)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4)
FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (12)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
INDIGO Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10 / 12XP)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:10 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Hacking Device, Infiltration
NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)
FATHER-KNIGHT Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Breaker Pistol, DA CCW. (44)
BOLT Hacker (Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 62)
CROC MAN (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (32)
AKAL COMMANDO Spitfire / Pistol, E/M CCW. (1.5 | 28)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)

5.5 SWC | 299 Points

Open with Army 5


You need some form of MSV in your army. And you had plenty of SWC to spare.

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

Flipswitch posted:

I'd drop Fusil with Combi into group two and shunt a Bulleteer up straight away, they're quite order intensive models so you need to be spending orders on them. I'd be tempted to say same with the Indigo or one of the Auxilia too. 13 orders is a really, really awkward number to work with though. I'd be tempted to drop the Kamau and get some cheaper models in there. (Pathfinder and Mulebot/Fugazi?) to up the orders.

Is one hacker good enough for ITS missions?

DJ Dizzy posted:

I would rather run something like this.

You need some form of MSV in your army. And you had plenty of SWC to spare.

I like this, but I'll have to find somewhere with Aquila Guard in stock.

Cyclomatic
May 29, 2012

"I'm past caring about what might be lost by letting alphabet soups monitor every last piece of communication between every human being on the planet."

I unironically love Big Brother.
Watching the Beasts of War video about N3 Human Spheres, the interesting thing was how Carlos talked about how they were not only updating the rules but reconsidering them. It came off very much like reboots or significant changes to rules where possible.

He specifically mentioned them looking at holo-projectors.

In general he seemed to advance the idea that the state of the game was very much still on the table in general. He mentioned that the Kaeltars / Corahtar rules were not the real thing.

He mentioned that sectorials needed to use command tokens to form fire teams and vanilla lists did not. He said that meant that vanilla lists had much more freedom in how they spent command tokens and he indicated that was an issue with sectorials that needed rules to address, which seemed to implicitly dismiss the idea that was part of the draw for vanilla lists.



It all makes me speculate. Every single JSA model was conspicuously absent from the N3 core rule book. I wonder if they are under reconsideration. I rather like their theme, but they are a bit limited in how they do stuff.

If they are reconsidering stuff, I would really hope they look at giving Hassassin Bahram an addition that lets them be equal to or better than Saladin at Fidays.

DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.
Give me a bolt engineer, or failing that give me a fusi engineer.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Swagger Dagger posted:

Is one hacker good enough for ITS missions?


I like this, but I'll have to find somewhere with Aquila Guard in stock.

Firestorm Games has a few and free shipping over £30! /lgsplug
One hacker is fine imo. I like double but often never hack with two. Pathfinder is a strong specialist and counters the drop in hacker.

Cyberpunkey Monkey
Jun 23, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo

DJ Dizzy posted:

Give me a bolt engineer, or failing that give me a fusi engineer.

Why? You can get full board coverage for repairs for 21 points and it's not like the engi is the only specialist. Idk why people piss and moan over this. It's just loving fine the way it is. You just want to lazily protect your engi in a link team instead of having to be smart about it.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


i quite like having options that aren't limited to spec ops and an ava 1 machinist who is wip12 but that's just me

DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.

osirisisdead posted:

Why? You can get full board coverage for repairs for 21 points and it's not like the engi is the only specialist. Idk why people piss and moan over this. It's just loving fine the way it is. You just want to lazily protect your engi in a link team instead of having to be smart about it.

No, I would like to have a better armored engineer for battlefield repairs of remotes/tags, rather than a squishy as gently caress machinist.

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"Negotiations were going well. They were very impressed by my hat." -Issaries the Concilliator"

Flipswitch posted:

i quite like having options that aren't limited to spec ops and an ava 1 machinist who is wip12 but that's just me

Non-Panoceanian players are happier, when you have some weaknesses.

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010

Flipswitch posted:

i quite like having options that aren't limited to spec ops and an ava 1 machinist who is wip12 but that's just me

And I like having +1 BS on almost everything :v:

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Pierzak posted:

And I like having +1 BS on almost everything :v:
yeah i quite like this, and having fancy equipment that I can't fix because of my gimpy rear end engineer.

adhuin posted:

Non-Panoceanian players are happier, when you have some weaknesses.
lack of good specialists mate

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010

Flipswitch posted:

having fancy equipment that I can't fix because of my gimpy rear end engineer.

Buy a new one or go be poor somewhere else :pano:

Issaries
Sep 15, 2008

"Negotiations were going well. They were very impressed by my hat." -Issaries the Concilliator"
Low-grade specialists are always hilarious, when they fail.
Whether it is Nomad paramedic desperately trying to hit the unconcsious OD-guy with her medi-gun,
or Panocenian Doctor detaching Swissguards head after using 2 re-rolls.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Pierzak posted:

Buy a new one or go be poor somewhere else :pano:
i would but ITS pushes me from away from good models. :sob:

My event starts tomorrow morning, cautiously looking forward to it and partially dreading it, am doing our markers now and my god its boring cutting these out.

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010
Good luck with the event! Make sure to take photos!

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Tar, my camera is knackered after my missus dropped it while on holiday but my phone camera is pretty decent so I'll use that. Me and some friends are setting up the tables tonight and then playing board games.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
Machinist would be fine if his model wasn't fugly. I've had plenty good results with Najjarun engies, and I have better options than him.

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010
...so yeah.

USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 9 0 0
GRUNT Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
GRUNT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
GRUNT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
GRUNT (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (11)
GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (12)

Group 2 6 2 1
MARAUDER (Fireteam: Haris L1) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
MARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (23)
MARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
112 Light Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (12)
HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (12)
DEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (30)
K-9 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (7)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 5

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
Built a list independently, and it looks almost identical. :v:

USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 9 1 1
DEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (30)
K-9 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (7)
GRUNT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
GRUNT Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (12)
GRUNT Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (12)
GRUNT Lieutenant Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
GRUNT Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (10)
GRUNT Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (10)

Group 2 8 0 1
MARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
MARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (23)
MARAUDER (Fireteam: Haris L1) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
MAVERICK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)
GRUNT (Inferior Infiltration) Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 11)

6 SWC | 281 Points

Open with Army 5

It looks like how I wish QK would play.

e2: The army builder says 299, the list here says 281. Not going to hand count right now.

Corbeau fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jul 10, 2015

Hipster Occultist
Aug 16, 2008

He's an ancient, obscure god. You probably haven't heard of him.


I ended up building this, I wanna give Van Zant a test to see if he's worth losing a few orders of grunts.

USAriadna Ranger Force
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 9 1 1
MARAUDER (Fireteam: Haris L1) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (1 | 22)
MARAUDER (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 26)
MARAUDER Paramedic (MediKit) Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (23)
GRUNT HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21)
GRUNT (Marksmanship LX) Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
GRUNT Heavy Flamethrower, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (10)
GRUNT Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
GRUNT Lieutenant Rifle, Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 14)
DEVIL DOG Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades + 1 K-9 Antipode / AP Heavy Pistol, AP CC Weapon. (30)
K-9 ANTIPODE AP CC Weapon. (7)
VAN ZANT AP Rifle / Heavy Pistol, AP CCW. (38)

Group 2 4 1 2
MAVERICK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
MAVERICK (Forward Observer) Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
FOXTROT (Forward Observer) Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (18)
HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (14)

6 SWC | 286 Points

Open with Army 5

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

Nobody wants to take Traktor Muls?

Pierzak
Oct 30, 2010

Swagger Dagger posted:

Nobody wants to take Traktor Muls?

Buy me a box and I'll take them :v:

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013
Would you guys say the game is skewed slightly towards high model count armies? I know people are very afraid of things like elite TO HI, and some heavy TAGs, but between crits and order pools I feel like almost any list is better with 16+ orders than with a single CG of 10. I know that ITS lists are almost always built to 2 CGs. A friend who I am trying to teach the game asked about it and he has almost completely decided from some tutorial games that numbers are the way to go.

Cyclomatic
May 29, 2012

"I'm past caring about what might be lost by letting alphabet soups monitor every last piece of communication between every human being on the planet."

I unironically love Big Brother.
In general I think that is true about 15+ orders. Not always, but in general yea.

I don't think it is skewed that far, and I think the introduction of a few more pieces of strong ARO equipment would shift things. I think with a small order list you really really need a strong plan to get work done in the reactive turn. I'd guess that CB is aware of this, and the price on a lot of expensive models went down in N3 while the price of cheap models didn't. That awareness with affect their decision making with Human Spheres N3 and the next book.

I think it is takes more skill to make decisions to play strongly in the reactive turn than it does to play strongly in the active turn.

There are also less obvious concerns for high model counts, like running out of good positions on the board. 20 dudes is a lot stronger looking on paper than in practice when you've placed 12 dudes and now feel like you've got to somehow fit 8 more into lovely positions. It is still really good, but not AS good as you'd think.

There are also low model count models that are not actually low order count models. Stuff with Airborne Deployment or Infiltration that lets you start in a location that would have cost you a significant number of orders (while possibly taking AROs in the process) to reach is really an order spam model in many respects. Mine layers are also really good, as starting with a deployed mine is equal to 1/4th of a cheerleader, half a cheer leader if they've got camo since they would have needed to re-camo after laying the mine, and a full cheerleader of more if you can place it well over the center line.



Edit: On another subject, new video on Beasts of War where Carlos announced that Angel is putting out another painting book in Oct/Nov 2016. The first book ended up needing 50k copies, so he isn't going to do a limited edition this time around. Initial print run will be 10k.

Cyclomatic fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jul 11, 2015

Hipster Occultist
Aug 16, 2008

He's an ancient, obscure god. You probably haven't heard of him.


I don't think that holds true for the newer stuff like Steel Phalanx though, Phoenix is a loving god in the reactive turn. :v:

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013
Good points about reactive turn pieces, I have never really played with Reaktion bots (don't like the look of the nomad versions) and am more of an attacking player. I admit that a complete order spam army would have to be quite lucky to go head-on against a well-positioned link team of, say, wildcats, but what still makes it workable is the risk of crits or unlikely results. You are just a bit more insulated from risk if none of your models are more than 20-25 points.

I find it very hard to use AD models in 1-CG armies actually. Whenever I take more than 1/10 I feel like my flexible pool is contracting, especially if I have an irregular model or something in the mix as well. I do like that the 'switch CG' function for command tokens makes it better to play around with tiny second groups, eg 3 models including a sniper, because you can get the orders into your main pool in turns 2-3.

Cyclomatic
May 29, 2012

"I'm past caring about what might be lost by letting alphabet soups monitor every last piece of communication between every human being on the planet."

I unironically love Big Brother.
If you've got irregular models and are only filling one combat group at 300 points, then yea, that seems pretty order light.

With hidden TO infiltrators or AD troops, it is a bit of an illusion about missing orders. Pretend the model starts in your deployment zone on the first turn, and pretend you are spending an order every turn to move them, and make sure to add extra order costs like throwing smoke or dodging to get into parts of the board that are being taxed by AROing models. Instead of feeling like you are missing orders, you feel like you are cheating on your taxes.

Reaction bots are pretty solid, but fragile.

You've also got stuff like Croc Men that drop some mines and then go into suppressive fire with TO camo and an X-visor. It creates a huge toll both that charges a ton of orders to interact with that part of the table. Suppressive fire is really good in general. Especially if you are in a position to drop 4x models into suppressive fire with one command token. Mines are a good example of something designed around paying more points for the ability to spend 1 order on an action that will cost them more than 1 order to deal with safely, or make them pay in some other way.

Link teams in the ARO are also really good. Burst 2 AROs are waaaaaay better than Burst 1 AROs.

Heavy Infantry link teams also tend to shred crap troops in the active turn. Even just a link of 3 HI is solid. Even a basic linked HI with a rifle is B4 with a high BS, has good ARM and 2x wounds, so they win the vast majority of the shootouts and anything other than a crit usually bounces off. Burst 4 or 5 is actually rather solid crit protection as you've got a 18% or 22% crit chance yourself which cancels incomming crits. When they do get crit they are still up and you can cycle the link leader to a fresh model.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades

Genghis Cohen posted:

Would you guys say the game is skewed slightly towards high model count armies? I know people are very afraid of things like elite TO HI, and some heavy TAGs, but between crits and order pools I feel like almost any list is better with 16+ orders than with a single CG of 10. I know that ITS lists are almost always built to 2 CGs. A friend who I am trying to teach the game asked about it and he has almost completely decided from some tutorial games that numbers are the way to go.

I think that tactics have to change when playing against high-order lists. The thing, is, those lists usually have a limited number of models with "answering" equipment like MSV and long range weapons. I've gotten away with 11-12 order lists that hunt down enemy MSV units and keep a TO Camo unit or two in reserve. Once the answers are gone, a couple of TO units in the right positions can nullify the opponent's order advantage. It's certainly not a free win or anything like that, but it's quite winnable. I've done it with Military Orders in the past, using an HI link as bait and TO Sergeants (sniper or FO) for the coup de gras. I intend to try a Neoterra version someday without the full HI link, but using nastier TO units.

Basically, a low-order list can be crippled by killing their order pool. A high-order list can be crippled by killing their efficient outlets for those orders.

e: Worth noting that my meta is very Ariadna-light. I mostly see high order lists brought by vanilla Yu Jing and vanilla Haqq (and I'm the one bringing the latter).

Corbeau fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jul 11, 2015

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Today went pretty well! had five no shows which was a pretty lame (two of which were paid? wtf?) and the other 3 were all locals, one had a legit emergency which is fair and the other two were fairly new so I think they may have backed out last minute.

Took some pictures of the tables early on and then my phone died as i forgot to charge it last night, will post those up in a mo so Pierzak can stop moaning at me. E: Highlight was one guy took legit 45 minutes to deploy. Allegedly, neither of the players realised the time but by the 1hr mark they were ending first round.

Flipswitch fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 11, 2015

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013

Cyclomatic posted:

If you've got irregular models and are only filling one combat group at 300 points, then yea, that seems pretty order light.

With hidden TO infiltrators or AD troops, it is a bit of an illusion about missing orders. Pretend the model starts in your deployment zone on the first turn, and pretend you are spending an order every turn to move them, and make sure to add extra order costs like throwing smoke or dodging to get into parts of the board that are being taxed by AROing models. Instead of feeling like you are missing orders, you feel like you are cheating on your taxes.

Reaction bots are pretty solid, but fragile.

You've also got stuff like Croc Men that drop some mines and then go into suppressive fire with TO camo and an X-visor. It creates a huge toll both that charges a ton of orders to interact with that part of the table. Suppressive fire is really good in general. Especially if you are in a position to drop 4x models into suppressive fire with one command token. Mines are a good example of something designed around paying more points for the ability to spend 1 order on an action that will cost them more than 1 order to deal with safely, or make them pay in some other way.

Link teams in the ARO are also really good. Burst 2 AROs are waaaaaay better than Burst 1 AROs.

Heavy Infantry link teams also tend to shred crap troops in the active turn. Even just a link of 3 HI is solid. Even a basic linked HI with a rifle is B4 with a high BS, has good ARM and 2x wounds, so they win the vast majority of the shootouts and anything other than a crit usually bounces off. Burst 4 or 5 is actually rather solid crit protection as you've got a 18% or 22% crit chance yourself which cancels incomming crits. When they do get crit they are still up and you can cycle the link leader to a fresh model.

Very good points indeed. I see where you are coming from on the AD. My experience is that AD can be shockingly good with the right terrain setup, and an opponent who hasn't covered all his rear arcs (either from inexperience or carelessness) - it is often a little riskier/trickier to use if your opponent has the knowledge to look at, say, my corregidor list and think 'hmm, either a tomcat or hellcat in reserve, better get set'.

Also really good points on using TO and HI types to bully smaller models. (Same to you Corbeau) I will try and think of that as a list building idea when I next play. Maybe a mobile brigada link, and/or a vanilla nomad list using some combat remotes and spektrs.

Hoboskins
Aug 31, 2006

there is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist
Somewhat off topic but I figured that players of infinity would be interested. Check out this game coming out on the 21st called Frostgrave. It is basically Mordheim and if you are like me and have a currently unscratchable itch for a skirmish fantasy game this might be right up your alley.

Review
http://thegaragegamers.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/frostgrave-fantasy-wargames-in-frozen_25.html

Goon Thread
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3730150

On the Infinity side of things pre ordering the hell out of that Ariadna USA box

Cyclomatic
May 29, 2012

"I'm past caring about what might be lost by letting alphabet soups monitor every last piece of communication between every human being on the planet."

I unironically love Big Brother.
I'm looking at Haqq again.

Can someone make an argument in favor of the Hassassin Bahram over vanilla?

I'm not seeing anything special in the AVA, or merc access. The only thing of possible interest is if you wanted to do double Fiday's and getting the second mine Fiday over Hussein. Although if you are going double Fiday, it seems like vanilla with Saladin just seems better.

Link team wise, the Myuibs seem like the most interesting one. I'm really having a hard time seeing taking any of the other possible links, unless I wanted a sniper link to try and bisect the the table to give the Fidays room to operate, as they are super going to run out of orders before dealing with a sniper link restricting access to Fidays.

Seems like you need to REALLY want a Myuib link in exchange for some super lovely visor access.

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades

Hoboskins posted:

Somewhat off topic but I figured that players of infinity would be interested. Check out this game coming out on the 21st called Frostgrave. It is basically Mordheim and if you are like me and have a currently unscratchable itch for a skirmish fantasy game this might be right up your alley.

Review
http://thegaragegamers.blogspot.com.au/2015/05/frostgrave-fantasy-wargames-in-frozen_25.html

Goon Thread
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3730150

On the Infinity side of things pre ordering the hell out of that Ariadna USA box

I'd play it instantly if it had figures of CB quality. The ol' heroic scale/style just doesn't do it for me after Infinity's sculpts. Interested in the rules though, so I appreciate the link to the goon thread.

Cyclomatic posted:

I'm looking at Haqq again.

Can someone make an argument in favor of the Hassassin Bahram over vanilla?

I'm not seeing anything special in the AVA, or merc access. The only thing of possible interest is if you wanted to do double Fiday's and getting the second mine Fiday over Hussein. Although if you are going double Fiday, it seems like vanilla with Saladin just seems better.

Link team wise, the Myuibs seem like the most interesting one. I'm really having a hard time seeing taking any of the other possible links, unless I wanted a sniper link to try and bisect the the table to give the Fidays room to operate, as they are super going to run out of orders before dealing with a sniper link restricting access to Fidays.

Seems like you need to REALLY want a Myuib link in exchange for some super lovely visor access.

The main reason I'd consider HB, personally, is a 5-man reactive Govad link. MSV + SSL2 link bonus + total BS 15 + B2 AROs = serious board control. I don't really see the appeal of Muyibs, personally.

e: It's worth explaining why I'm not a big fan of Muyibs. Keep in mind that the following is based off of experience with other factions and sectorials - I dislike Muyibs enough that I've never wanted to run them as a link (though I have put multiple minelayers into vanilla lists). Some players swear by linked Muyibs though, so your mileage might vary.

Generally speaking, I want a link team to hold ground. A defensive link team can do that with heavy weapons and link bonuses - or, like the Govads, they can potentially offer nigh-total dominance over their fire lanes by adding equipment like MSV to the mix. An "offensive" link team will do it through being tough as nails, such as being HI, and will ideally pack a specialist along for order-efficiency in securing objectives. They're both board control, but they do it through different means (either long range fire lane control or close range physical occupation). I'm actually starting to like the offensive HI link quite a bit, since it also poses a severe threat to your opponent's specialists or order pool (a threat that a cheap long-range link doesn't pose).

My problem with a Muyib link is that it's not great at either job. Govads do the long range link job better IMO, and I don't see Muyibs really accomplishing the close range defensive role particularly well either. Dogged at least functions on the reactive turn, but they're still going to die and they lack the defensive benefits of HI (high ARM, high PH, and true multiple wounds). You could argue that they're more affordable, and that's true, but if I'm going to put a big chunk of my order pool into danger then I want it to be resilient! Being able to afford a few more cheerleaders isn't that much comfort when the order investment of positioning your link ends up wiped out. Maybe I'm spoiled by Hospitaller links, who have great stats and can very credibly threaten Engage, but Muyibs have never looked particularly appealing as offensive teams go.

Honestly though, I'd expect to see HSN3 give Haris to at least one of the Hassassin mid-range infantry. Then the discussion will be much more interesting!

Corbeau fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jul 12, 2015

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades
And to kind of follow up on the single vs multiple combat group discussion, this is a Neoterra list that I'm planning to build for the next league (if and when it happens):

Neoterran Capitaline Army
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

Group 1 10 0 0
AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 62)
SWISS GUARD Missile Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 69)
SWISS GUARD Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (0.5 | 70)
FUSILIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 18)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (12)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (15)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4)
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (15)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4)

6 SWC | 299 Points

Open with Army 5

It's a single combat group, and I'm pretty confident that it's viable. The Swiss hacker might be overkill, I'll admit, but it's really cool and the list should still be functional.

Also worth noting that my Fusilier link is really just intended as a secondary sweeper to back up the Aquilla Guard. The main sectorial benefit for this list is being able to run 2x Swiss, not the actual link team.

Flipswitch
Mar 30, 2010


Looks pretty bog standard to me mate, don't see any issues with it.

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013
Pretty good example of an elite list IMO - 3 very dangerous HI with gucci kit, with efficient defense to back them up via the link and auxilia. Not too mobile (ie no infiltrating or AD troops) but that shouldn't be a massive problem given the right board and deployment.

Condoleezza Nice!
Jan 4, 2010

Lite som Robin Hood
fast inte
Lasiqs rifle link team is hilarious and terrifying. :colbert:

Corbeau
Sep 13, 2010

Jack of All Trades

Fanzay posted:

Lasiqs rifle link team is hilarious and terrifying. :colbert:

If Lasiqs get Haris I will literally squee with excitement.

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Condoleezza Nice!
Jan 4, 2010

Lite som Robin Hood
fast inte

Corbeau posted:

If Lasiqs get Haris I will literally squee with excitement.

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