Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Nintendo Kid
Aug 4, 2011

by Smythe

Subjunctive posted:

They might require that Intel's licensing terms on x86 change.

I don't see why, since their terms are simply "pay us a lot of money and then pay royalties".

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Nintendo Kid posted:

I don't see why, since their terms are simply "pay us a lot of money and then pay royalties".

Well, they could make them RAND.

Yudo
May 15, 2003

Potato Salad posted:

Does the fed buy raw cpus? For example, at the moment there is a de-facto Dell monoculture in the federal government for user desktops and servers(most stringently in DoD and Army), but that adds a layer of abstraction above the cpu vendor. I'm not finding any procurement policies that care whether the HP and Dell servers they have available on CHESS contracts all have only one parts vendor for cpu.

I don't think the Fed buys CPUs: even when something breaks, the vendor usually handles it.

I could be wrong, but the parts themselves must be multiple sourced or potentially such: the vendor needs to be able to get parts from more than once manufacturer. I'm not sure that it's built into every government contract, however. As hosed up as federal and military procurement is, I can't imagine that they would be comfortable being explicitly dependent and beholden to one company for x86 applications.

Then again, they let Lockmart do whatever.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Yudo posted:

I don't think the Fed buys CPUs: even when something breaks, the vendor usually handles it.

I could be wrong, but the parts themselves must be multiple sourced or potentially such: the vendor needs to be able to get parts from more than once manufacturer. I'm not sure that it's built into every government contract, however. As hosed up as federal and military procurement is, I can't imagine that they would be comfortable being explicitly dependent and beholden to one company for x86 applications.

Then again, they let Lockmart do whatever.

Non-availability would factor in here should Intel's desktop/server-space competition die. Security matters more on that CHESS list anyway (bye bye, Chinese-owned manufacturers).

The long and short of it is that Intel's monopoly in a post-AMD world will not be broken up by the procurement engine. That'll be up to anti-trust law. We're hosed here in the US, and maybe if the EU's hard-on for ripping on Google subsides, they'll move on to other fish, including Intel.

japtor
Oct 28, 2005

Xeom posted:

Does anybody know when CPU's with GT4e will start to be released?

I'm thinking of buying an intel NUC if the performance is good enough.

computer parts posted:

Some Skylake CPUs will have it.
But historically the parts going into NUCs are the lower end stuff, and afaik GT4e will remain with the higher end (and higher power) parts. Course some other OEM could make a higher end tiny PC like the fancier Brix models again.

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, UNFUCKABLE AND A TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO EVERYONE. DAE WANNA CUM PLAY WITH ME!?




So I guess the rest of the Skylake desktop line was announced today and releases tomorrow. My first thought is the 6700 is pretty far behind the 6700K, in terms of stock frequency and a little behind for turbo, which is a bit disappointing. I don't think this will improve the outlook for most enthusiasts.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

VulgarandStupid posted:

So I guess the rest of the Skylake desktop line was announced today and releases tomorrow. My first thought is the 6700 is pretty far behind the 6700K, in terms of stock frequency and a little behind for turbo, which is a bit disappointing. I don't think this will improve the outlook for most enthusiasts.

It's a 65W part rather than a 95W, my bet is that it can sustain turbo speeds without iGPU running but will drop to base clock if you use GPU.

This is what we expected, right?

Edit: My big question is if the motherboard BIOS setting for enabling turbo on all cores is doable with non-K chips. With a decent cooler and a cheap 6600 non-K / H170 motherboard can it run 3.9GHz all the time?

Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Aug 31, 2015

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber
Clapping Larry

VulgarandStupid posted:

So I guess the rest of the Skylake desktop line was announced today and releases tomorrow. My first thought is the 6700 is pretty far behind the 6700K, in terms of stock frequency and a little behind for turbo, which is a bit disappointing. I don't think this will improve the outlook for most enthusiasts.

Hopefully this is a sign that the 6700K will have higher availability.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Lowen SoDium posted:

Hopefully this is a sign that the 6700K will have higher availability.

It all depends on pricing too. Around me a 6600K costs the exact same as a 4790.

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Question: Is it possible to bottleneck current sky lake processors in games? This is of course assuming enthusiasts is just a synonym for high end gamers.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Boiled Water posted:

Question: Is it possible to bottleneck current sky lake processors in games? This is of course assuming enthusiasts is just a synonym for high end gamers.

Easily, if your monitor is 1024x768.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Skandranon posted:

Whats this supposed to mean? Samsung could buy AMD and decide to go into the CPU market. Who knows what will happen to AMDs IP if/when they go under.
I know AMD's IP doesn't get picked up as easily as you're phrasing it. I don't know where their blocks sit on the scale from soft IP to hard IP (basically, how intertwined are the schematic & layout), but I'm going to guess the company that's been draining brains really quickly isn't doing their very best to make things The Right Way where arbitrary parts can be plucked out and slotted into other designs.

Yudo posted:

Intel's problem is not AMD, rather its dependence on process scaling and struggles with with multiple patterning and wiring these 14nm chips. 10nm is going to be even worse.
Looool stupid Intel, trying to scale process nodes ahead of the rest of the planet instead of chilling at 22nm node like a sensible company would do.

ElehemEare
May 20, 2001
I am an omnipotent penguin.

JawnV6 posted:

Looool stupid Intel, trying to scale process nodes ahead of the rest of the planet instead of chilling at 22nm node like a sensible company would do.

Stupid Intel trying to innovate in meaningful ways for a much more important market segment than desktop why I never. :argh:

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

Boiled Water posted:

Question: Is it possible to bottleneck current sky lake processors in games? This is of course assuming enthusiasts is just a synonym for high end gamers.

Aside from some badly coded shitheaps and and large online FPS types(BF4, PS2) no you are unlikely to hit meaningful CPU bottlenecks

Umph
Apr 26, 2008

Does anyone know the difference between
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i3...in%3A2289794011
and
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VHKZ6I8/?tag=pcpapi-20?

One is 20$ cheaper, and I don't understand the difference.

I am looking for a budget gaming card, and I am not terribly interested in overclocking. Is the i3 4170 a good bet?

Thank you.

Watermelon Daiquiri
Jul 10, 2010
I TRIED TO BAIT THE TXPOL THREAD WITH THE WORLD'S WORST POSSIBLE TAKE AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID AVATAR.
They are literally the exact same thing

Drunk Badger
Aug 27, 2012

Trained Drinking Badger
A Faithful Companion

Grimey Drawer
Now that we know about the new CPUs, will an upgrade from a 2500K still not be worth it?

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Drunk Badger posted:

Now that we know about the new CPUs, will an upgrade from a 2500K still not be worth it?

Not unless you're really hurting for better power numbers (unlikely on a desktop), or really want a new motherboard with shiny new features so you can ditch add-in cards / etc, IMO. Especially no if you've already got a good OC going.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

Umph posted:

Does anyone know the difference between
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i3...in%3A2289794011
and
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VHKZ6I8/?tag=pcpapi-20?

One is 20$ cheaper, and I don't understand the difference.

I am looking for a budget gaming card, and I am not terribly interested in overclocking. Is the i3 4170 a good bet?

Thank you.

One is sold by amazon, one is a third party seller.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Drunk Badger posted:

Now that we know about the new CPUs, will an upgrade from a 2500K still not be worth it?

2500k @ 4.6 is still where it's at for games.

Skylake has some meaningful performance increases if you spend a lot of your time doing video compression or whatever, but that's about it.

Yudo
May 15, 2003

ElehemEare posted:

Stupid Intel trying to innovate in meaningful ways for a much more important market segment than desktop why I never. :argh:


JawnV6 posted:

Looool stupid Intel, trying to scale process nodes ahead of the rest of the planet instead of chilling at 22nm node like a sensible company would do.

You both are caviling. Intel has maintained its performance lead largely by investing in fabrication technology. As scaling become much harder, it gives time for others to catch up. That is a problem for Intel. Anyways how is mobile going for Intel? Oh that's right, server (i.e. performance) is still their cash cow.

Plus, TSMC, IBM and their consortium, Samsung etc. also are spending gobs of money. Though you belittle it, TSMC's 28nm process allowed for higher density than Intel's 22nm. GloFlo is even allowing for 2D design rules at 16nm or whatever they are doing (Intel has been at 1D since 32nm or there about). It's not like the rest of the world is sitting on their hands and not making good products.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Yudo posted:

It's not like the rest of the world is sitting on their hands and not making good products.

Until I can play TW3 on it, I care not for these "other chip makers" :colbert:

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Yudo posted:

You both are caviling. Intel has maintained its performance lead largely by investing in fabrication technology. As scaling become much harder, it gives time for others to catch up. That is a problem for Intel. Anyways how is mobile going for Intel? Oh that's right, server (i.e. performance) is still their cash cow.
Right, but you're using this dumb phrasing where Intel's options are "Do nothing" or "Invest in Fab Tech" and you're laughing at them for investing. If you want to talk about the Xscale missed opportunity or current ARM vs. Intel we can, but you seemed more interested in a disingenuous as poo poo argument over fab tech. I.e.

Yudo posted:

Though you belittle it, TSMC's 28nm process allowed for higher density than Intel's 22nm.
Ok. How many years apart are the processes you're pretending to do apples to apples between? Are you similarly amazed that the original iPhone lacks features compared to a modern Android?

Yudo
May 15, 2003

JawnV6 posted:

Right, but you're using this dumb phrasing where Intel's options are "Do nothing" or "Invest in Fab Tech" and you're laughing at them for investing. If you want to talk about the Xscale missed opportunity or current ARM vs. Intel we can, but you seemed more interested in a disingenuous as poo poo argument over fab tech. I.e.

Ok. How many years apart are the processes you're pretending to do apples to apples between? Are you similarly amazed that the original iPhone lacks features compared to a modern Android?

I'm not at all laughing at Intel, nor did I ever suggest they not invest in fabrication technology as frankly they have no choice and neither really does everyone else. I am saying that they face challenges as scaling slows (10nm, for example, has already been delayed and 14nm was long slog) that may allow others to catch up. In other words, they may not be able to maintain the 2-3 node advantage they have in the past and may have to compete or innovate in other ways. I really can't tell what could possibly be inflammatory here.

TSMCs 28nm is close if not contemporaneous to Intel's 22nm process. By Intel's own account, TSMC has maintained a density advantage at the nodes prior as well.

DrDork posted:

Until I can play TW3 on it, I care not for these "other chip makers" :colbert:

The bulk of your TW3 "running" is--assuming you like framerate--done by a chip designed by AMD or Nvidia and fabricated by TSMC.

Yudo fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 1, 2015

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Yudo posted:

I'm not at all laughing at Intel
You should. They do big, dumb, inscrutable things on the regular. If you need a jumping off point, try "Why did Intel sell off the most competitive ARM design team right before it blew up?"

Yudo
May 15, 2003


JawnV6 posted:

You should. They do big, dumb, inscrutable things on the regular. If you need a jumping off point, try "Why did Intel sell off the most competitive ARM design team right before it blew up?"

I think the root of their failures is that they cannot envision selling a chip that doesn't have huge margins or a product that actually invigorates the x86 space at the same time.

Itanic (which resulted in the only cool and good thing Oracle has ever done), P4, Broadwell and mobile myopia for sure give schadenfreude, but more than laugh I rage their pricing, that they no longer bin but fuse, and that they are anti-competitive (to a lesser extent, anti-consumer) assholes. Even more nerd rage stems from the fact that they are the only show in town by a mile.

Nothing will ever beat AMD selling ATI's mobile division to Qualcomm for face-to-palm intensity. Buying Seamicro thus pulling a 3DFX is another massive recent stupid.

Yudo fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 1, 2015

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

ArsTechnic has some news on the wider Skylake rollout:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/09/skylake-for-laptops-faster-core-m-and-ultrabook-gpus-with-edram/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/09/intel-announces-a-beefed-up-core-m-compute-stick-with-skylake/
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/09/skylake-for-desktops-new-socketed-processors-from-core-i7-to-pentium/

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
Preliminary analysis from a value hunter perspective:

-i7 turbo bins: 6700K (4/4/4/4.2GHz) vs 6700 (3.7/3.8/3.9/4GHz), not as big as a difference compared to 4790K vs non-K.

-Locked 6600 is the best value for a non-OC i5 with the same turbo bins (3.6/3.7/3.8/3.9GHz) as the 6600K and a lower TDP of 65W, despite the lower base clock of the former (3.3GHz).

-The i3 6320 (3.9GHz) and 6300 (3.8GHz) are simply overpriced. Only the 6100 (3.7GHz) is reasonably priced at $117.

BurritoJustice
Oct 9, 2012

Palladium posted:

Preliminary analysis from a value hunter perspective:

-i7 turbo bins: 6700K (4/4/4/4.2GHz) vs 6700 (3.7/3.8/3.9/4GHz), not as big as a difference compared to 4790K vs non-K.

-Locked 6600 is the best value for a non-OC i5 with the same turbo bins (3.6/3.7/3.8/3.9GHz) as the 6600K and a lower TDP of 65W, despite the lower base clock of the former (3.3GHz).

-The i3 6320 (3.9GHz) and 6300 (3.8GHz) are simply overpriced. Only the 6100 (3.7GHz) is reasonably priced at $117.

Turbo bins require much less thought once you realise that every motherboard worth buying includes some form of MCE.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

BurritoJustice posted:

Turbo bins require much less thought once you realise that every motherboard worth buying includes some form of MCE.

What does this acronym mean? I'm assuming it means "can run at full turbo bins all the time as thermals allow", basically ignoring the TDP if you have sufficient cooling. Can this be done with a non-K CPU and and non-Z motherboard? If that's a switch I can flip on an H170 board with a 6600, then there's a value king.

Durinia
Sep 26, 2014

The Mad Computer Scientist

Yudo posted:

I'm not at all laughing at Intel, nor did I ever suggest they not invest in fabrication technology as frankly they have no choice and neither really does everyone else. I am saying that they face challenges as scaling slows (10nm, for example, has already been delayed and 14nm was long slog) that may allow others to catch up. In other words, they may not be able to maintain the 2-3 node advantage they have in the past and may have to compete or innovate in other ways. I really can't tell what could possibly be inflammatory here.

TSMCs 28nm is close if not contemporaneous to Intel's 22nm process. By Intel's own account, TSMC has maintained a density advantage at the nodes prior as well.


The "xy nm" numbers have basically lost their meaning these days. The screwy design rules and the 3D elements make them essentially made-up values in many ways.

A better way to phrase this time in the industry is perhaps that the leader in fabrication technology will be the first to run headlong into the scaling "wall", which is imminent. In the intermediate time while they're trying to figure out why there are brick marks on their face, the trailer is closing the gap. Then the real fun begins when everyone is mostly stuck on the same technology node and suddenly the only way to win is making better (and/or cheaper) architectures.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf

Yudo posted:

I'd go on a limb and say that AMD going under would be bad for Intel's business. Government purchasing often requires second sourcing, particularly military stuff. Intel would become an official monopoly rather than just being one de facto.

Slightly old post, but-
Government purchasing doesn't care at all about what CPU is inside a server. We (in general) have longstanding contracts with Dell or HP or whomever for things like that, and buying things on those contracts is as simple as pointing to what we want and getting it directly.

If we need something not on an existing contract then you have to get multiple quotes, but that's just looking at 3 vendors. That's just like saying "OK Amazon, I want an item XYZ, what price will you give me?" then also going to CDW-G and saying the same "I need item XYZ, what price will you give me?" and then finishing up with a quote from Newegg.

It has nothing to do with the actual hardware you're buying, only the vendor selling it to you. Even when the item in question is something specific that's only made by one company (Say a certain model of NetApp filer), all that matters is that you shopped around to three different resellers.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Intel trying to cram Skylake into a whale phone
http://www.androidauthority.com/acer-chromebook-liquid-638706/

quote:

According to Kirk Skagen, Intel’s General Manager, the company is looking to bring its latest sixth-generation Core M processors to smartphones.

More specifically, the Core M range is being testing for use with “phablet” phones. Presumably the company is looking to bridge the gap between high-end tablet performance and a small mobile form factor.

Maybe cramming a desktop CPU into a whale phone will make desktop gaming enthusiasts happy???

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 2, 2015

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

WhyteRyce posted:

Intel trying to cram Skylake into a whale phone
http://www.androidauthority.com/acer-chromebook-liquid-638706/


Maybe cramming a desktop CPU into a whale phone will make desktop gaming enthusiasts happy???

That actually would but only if it runs a full desktop OS and I have doubts that will be the case.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
I think unironically that a phone running full Windows would not be a terrible device and, with a little tweaking, would be awesome.

My Windows Tablet is pretty sweet, and I already use a Note 3 which is practically a tablet I can put in my pocket. If my desktop fit in my pocket too...

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

PerrineClostermann posted:

I think unironically that a phone running full Windows would not be a terrible device and, with a little tweaking, would be awesome.

People would still complain that the screen isn't as nice as their Sony Trinitron.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Any meaningful bullshit kneecapping happening to the 6700K versus the 6700, similar to the 2600K vs 2600? I see the 6700K has VT-d, so no? --edit: Oh, it lacks vPro and TXT. Should I be bothered about this?

dont be mean to me
May 2, 2007

I'm interplanetary, bitch
Let's go to Mars


Combat Pretzel posted:

Any meaningful bullshit kneecapping happening to the 6700K versus the 6700, similar to the 2600K vs 2600? I see the 6700K has VT-d, so no? --edit: Oh, it lacks vPro and TXT. Should I be bothered about this?

That's pretty much enterprise security stuff, and there may actually be something wrong with you if you use unlocked-multiplier chips in an enterprise.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

WhyteRyce posted:

Maybe cramming a desktop CPU into a whale phone will make desktop gaming enthusiasts happy???

UGH THESE OVERCLOCKS ON MY PHONE ARE TERRIBLE INTEL :argh:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

Intel finally moving from PGA to soldered-on chips for mobile. There are less mobile SKUs, so just as well.

Also, core i5 now finally quad core on 35w+ mobile chips :haw:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply