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My biggest problem with The Martian was that at no time did I ever fear for his safety--there was no sense of danger because over and over, his SUPER-SCIENTIST BRAIN would overcome any and every problem before anything threatened him. There's a much better book buried somewhere in The Martian, but it's not the one we got. tonytheshoes fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 18:44
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angel opportunity posted:I enjoyed Red Mars while I was reading it, but the ending really fell flat for me, and now when I think back on the entire story it just feels really not good to me. Green Mars is my favorite book of the trilogy, and it helps that it has very little POVs from the first book returning only Nadia and a much less annoying Maya I think, while it introduces some very good new characters. But if the revolution stuff isn't your thing, it's probably not for you. I still think that the trilogy is some of the best science fiction I've ever read.
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Sep 3, 2015 18:56
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tonytheshoes posted:My biggest problem with The Martian was that at no time did I ever fear for his safety--there was no sense of danger because over and over, his SUPER-SCIENTIST BRAIN would overcome any and every problem before anything threatened him. There's a much better book buried somewhere in The Martian, but it's not the one we got. I kinda agree, but that's the issue with every survival story - you can just look at how much of the book you still have to read and know that the current problem is unlikely to kill the protagonist. But then again, I liked the "Oh I am so hosed" *chapter break* "This actually isn't that bad." parts, probably because I couldn't recognize quality writing if it bit me in the rear end. The enjoyment really comes not out of asking "Will he survive?" but asking "How is he going to get out of this one?".
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Sep 3, 2015 19:41
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ArchangeI posted:I kinda agree, but that's the issue with every survival story - you can just look at how much of the book you still have to read and know that the current problem is unlikely to kill the protagonist. But then again, I liked the "Oh I am so hosed" *chapter break* "This actually isn't that bad." parts, probably because I couldn't recognize quality writing if it bit me in the rear end. The enjoyment really comes not out of asking "Will he survive?" but asking "How is he going to get out of this one?". This is it! I know astronauts in reality are incredibly focused and goal oriented, but I don't think a person could take so many knocks without it affecting them to some degree. What make the book so much fun was the Macgyver like attitude and problem fixing!
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Sep 3, 2015 19:52
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Did anyone here read "The Fifth Season"? I'm reading it and it seems pretty good so far. It took me a while to start feeling into it, and it could definitely flop from here, but the reviews were all really good.
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Sep 3, 2015 19:57
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I just finished reading Absolution Gap. I liked it well enough but I was hungry for more by the end. The ending is a little bit abrupt and I was hoping for more closure. The whole deal with the Cathedrals dragged on for a bit too long too, and I was hoping for a more surprising reveal on what happened to Quaiche. I think my favorite of the trilogy is still Redemption Ark I believe, closely followed by the first one, Revelation Space. Also, gently caress you Skade, you loving rear end in a top hat. Poor Clavain. :-( How good are Galactic North and Chasm City? I mostly like the universe lore, do these books expand on that? In the meantime I bought The Forever War because it was in my wishlist. I can't remember why it was there or why I added it. For now it's... kind of weird. You can tell it was written in the 70's - it's a mix of classic SF and more modern approach. Funny that we are at war with aliens in now-past 1996. Anyway, is the book any good? For now I'm only at the beginning and I'm not overwhelmed by the style of the author or the world building.
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Sep 3, 2015 20:27
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Furism posted:In the meantime I bought The Forever War because it was in my wishlist. I can't remember why it was there or why I added it. For now it's... kind of weird. You can tell it was written in the 70's - it's a mix of classic SF and more modern approach. Funny that we are at war with aliens in now-past 1996. Anyway, is the book any good? For now I'm only at the beginning and I'm not overwhelmed by the style of the author or the world building. The thing with Forever War is that it was originally serialized as novellas/novelettes, so there's some disconnect between the different sections. I remember the beginning being very janky in terms of the writing quality and the advancement of plot. By all means, stick with it though--once you get past part 1, the story really picks up and the writing seems to improve quite a bit. I ended up loving it in the end. Plus it's a great allegory for how soldiers who go to war come home to a world that is completely changed from the one they left.
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Sep 3, 2015 20:40
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angel opportunity posted:I enjoyed Red Mars while I was reading it, but the ending really fell flat for me, and now when I think back on the entire story it just feels really not good to me. Ach mein Gott! This will not do, no, this will not do at all. I cannot compute. thehomemaster fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 3, 2015 |
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Sep 3, 2015 20:42
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Furism posted:Revelation Space stuff Also if you haven't read The Prefect, you probably should. It's a prequel that doesn't have much to do with anything but it's pretty great to see the Glitter Band in its full glory before poo poo Hit The Fan.
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Sep 3, 2015 20:44
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Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? Anything like GoT or WoT is not what I'm after.
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Sep 3, 2015 22:48
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Lies of Locke Lamora unless you deem that too GoT/WoT for you, in which case your loss cause that book is great.
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Sep 3, 2015 22:50
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thehomemaster posted:Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? Traitor's Blade and Knight's Shadow. EDIT: ^^^ And Lies, in my opinion one of the best books, period, from the last decade.
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Sep 3, 2015 22:52
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thehomemaster posted:Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? Earthsea.
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Sep 3, 2015 23:00
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Furism posted:I just finished reading Absolution Gap. I liked it well enough but I was hungry for more by the end. The ending is a little bit abrupt and I was hoping for more closure. The whole deal with the Cathedrals dragged on for a bit too long too, and I was hoping for a more surprising reveal on what happened to Quaiche. I think my favorite of the trilogy is still Redemption Ark I believe, closely followed by the first one, Revelation Space. Also, gently caress you Skade, you loving rear end in a top hat. Poor Clavain. :-( Chasm City is the best in the RS series, The Prefect comes in second. Galactic North is a series of shorts. Some are really good some are not so much.
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Sep 3, 2015 23:11
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thehomemaster posted:Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? Max Gladstone's Three Parts Dead. It's about necromancer lawyers and a court case against a god who has died and screwed over the city it was protecting by running up a huge divine influence debt.
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Sep 3, 2015 23:18
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China Mieville's Perdido Street Station.
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Sep 3, 2015 23:44
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Yeah, good book. All the Bas Lag books are good. Bring a dictionary along for the ride though...
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Sep 3, 2015 23:49
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thehomemaster posted:Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? Can we count The Book of the New Sun as fantasy for these purposes? tBotNS is always the answer, no matter what the question is. I am also thinking Small Gods (mostly because we just had a dust-up about it in the Britpol thread). Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, too. Perdido Street Station? I guess the most pertinent question is, what specific elements in fantasy make you think it's childish? Also, what have you already read in the genre? Also, what do you like in sci fi? Also, how exactly are we defining fantasy? Are magical realist books like One Hundred Years of Solitude fantasy? I am fairly certain that at some point in my life I have read an entirely serious and respectable fantasy book, but I must admit I can't seem to come up with a surefire list of magic bullets at this precise moment in time. Imajica? The Black Company? American Gods? Actually, American Gods seems to be hated by a lot of people, maybe not that. There were bits of The Dark Tower I really liked and bits I really hated. Wizard and Glass was the best, I think? And I have a vague sense (this was a long time ago) that you could get away with reading it standalone. The first half of Songs of Earth and Power I liked, but I was less enthused by the second volume. Oh, KJ Parker. If you think The Folding Knife is childish then I don't even know. And since we're on historical fantasy, I might as well throw in a rec for The Lions of Al-Rassan, though Guy Gavriel Kay's erstatz-Europe is by far the most obnoxious I've ever seen. Oh, poo poo, and Swordspoint. I just read that and I forgot about it.  Maybe The Half-Made World too. And Lavondyss, by Robert Holdstock.
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Sep 4, 2015 00:07
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I'm currently reading the First Law trilogy on the recommendation of this thread. It's actually turning out pretty good, so well done thread. Also, maybe give the Howard era Conan stories a try. Not exactly high brow poo poo (he was a pulp author), but really well written and the character is very different to the films/comic books.
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Sep 4, 2015 00:22
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I'd say most of the fantasy books talked about regularly itt aren't of the childish, garbage hack variety, and when those types are discussed it's usually to talk about how and why they're bad imo.
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Sep 4, 2015 01:09
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Autonomous Monster posted:I am also thinking Small Gods (mostly because we just had a dust-up about it in the Britpol thread). I'm gonna give this one a strong concur. It's my favorite Pratchett book. To me this is book where Sir Pterry hit his stride. It's the most stand-alone of his books. It's still crazy funny, but the satire has bit more of a bite than the previous books, and it's just so... human in the end.
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Sep 4, 2015 01:18
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thehomemaster posted:Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? Given the other stuff I've seen you like, I'm gonna say look up China Mieville's Perdido Street Station as your best bet. Also probably most of Gene Wolfe's stuff. Maybe some of Tim Powers' stuff but those may be a stretch (will depend on how much you're into the romantic poets, among other things). Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 02:59
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thehomemaster posted:Hey so I reckon most fantasy is childish rubbish, can y'all suggest decent fantasy? I've got City of Stairs, Goblin Emperor (this is probably still childish) and Golem and Djinn lined up, but any classics in particular? If what you consider "childish" as actually just straight Tolkien-esque High Fantasy (as opposed to High Fantasy that is more morally grey, I suppose) then there's a lot of fantasy that doesn't fit that mold. We even have an entire thread dedicated to one of the preeminent authors in that genre (Joe Abercrombie). And there's even a fair amount of Tolkien-esque High Fantasy that isn't rubbish. Anyone pick up Twelve Kings in Sharakhai by Bradley P. Beaulieu? I grabbed it on the strength of the first three chapters (which were pretty drat strong) but haven't had time to get to the rest of it just yet. Still, it's one of those few stories that isn't in a Stock Medieval Europe setting, and with the current "Durr Muslims" attitude in the US it's refreshing to have a protagonist who talks about niqab or abaya like it ain't nothing.
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Sep 4, 2015 04:40
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flosofl posted:Traitor's Blade and Knight's Shadow. Sorry, but no. I didn't hate Traitor's Blade, but it's an ultimately incredibly uneven three out of five. I'm on board with most of the other books mentioned.
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Sep 4, 2015 07:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Maybe some of Tim Powers' stuff but those may be a stretch (will depend on how much you're into the romantic poets, among other things). Seconding the recommendations of Miéville and Gene Wolfe. Guy Kay and Holdstock are in my opinion overrated as hell and definitely not up with the rest of the suggested authors; similar with Traitor's Blade which is a drat jolly fine swashbuckling adventure but probably not what you're looking for. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 07:53
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Megazver posted:Sorry, but no. I didn't hate Traitor's Blade, but it's an ultimately incredibly uneven three out of five. I'm not sure how A Song of Ice and Fire and Wheel of Time can be "childish rubbish" in the same way. They are two very different series.
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Sep 4, 2015 08:25
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Mars4523 posted:Knight's Shadow is also a bit of a mess. It's enjoyable, but still a mess. I loved both Traitor's Blade and Knight's Shadow precisely because they were a mess. They were enthusiastic, energetic, at times embarrassing, but always in a way that made you think the author was having the time of his life. Those kinds of books are extremely rare, I think. "Childish rubbish?" I guess if you want to call it that. But it seems like a nebulous term.
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Sep 4, 2015 08:31
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anathenema posted:I loved both Traitor's Blade and Knight's Shadow precisely because they were a mess. They were enthusiastic, energetic, at times embarrassing, but always in a way that made you think the author was having the time of his life. Those kinds of books are extremely rare, I think.
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Sep 4, 2015 08:41
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Traitor's Blade and Knight's Shadow both walked on the knife's edge between 2 stars and 3 stars, and they both fell barely onto the three side. Fun and enthusiasm count, but there's only so much ridiculousness they can counteract and those books have a ton of ridiculousness, enough so that I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable recommending them to basically anybody. They're definitely on the 'childish rubbish' side of fantasy by pretty much any objective standard.
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Sep 4, 2015 08:48
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The Undead Accountant series by Drew Hayes is surprisingly good. Basically, a CPA ends up being bitten by a vampire and gets turned, and has to kinda figure out the whole new life thing since his sire never hung around to show him the ropes like he should have. Weird poo poo happens, and, well, keeps happening. It's kind of interesting to have a story based around, what amounts to a boring dude. He's not a super vamp, he's not a special anything, dude is a CPA who is trying to figure out what the gently caress is going on. I think the first one is free on kindle unlimited (or maybe free anyway if not cheap), the second one came out a lil bit ago. This has nothing to do with the fantasy recommendations, I just finished reading them today and thought other people might wanna try an urban fantasy vamp story where the dude isn't some weird vamp sex god or whatever they normally do to vamps (no sparkling either!).
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Sep 4, 2015 08:54
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:
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Sep 4, 2015 09:04
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Mars4523 posted:The Red Knight and The Fell Sword by Miles Cameron isn't particularly childish (and is pretty good). I like them, but they have some problems (especially the first book). Some of the characterisation is a bit weak, particularly the antagonist in The REd Knight. The 'love' interest in the first book is also bizarre and unrealistic. I enjoyed them a lot, though, because a large part is basically medieval war realism porn, which is lacking in a lot of fantasy. Had I known going in, I would've kept a count on how many times plate armour saves the protagonist's life. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily recommend them as the high point of mature fantasy, though they're definitely not childish.
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Sep 4, 2015 10:01
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angel opportunity posted:Did anyone here read "The Fifth Season"? I'm reading it and it seems pretty good so far. It took me a while to start feeling into it, and it could definitely flop from here, but the reviews were all really good. I liked it a lot, and I hope the sequel comes out soon.
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Sep 4, 2015 15:40
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Seconding T. Pratchett's Small Gods. It's a good point to jump into Discworld too.tooterfish posted:I'm currently reading the First Law trilogy on the recommendation of this thread. It's actually turning out pretty good, so well done thread. Book Conan has the honorable savage and blood knight elements of Movie Conan, but is also significantly more cunning and clever.You can read The Tower of the Elephant right here. It's probably my favorite Conan story and the genre blending that the end plot twist throws in was pretty fresh in the 30's and blew readers' minds when it came out.
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Sep 4, 2015 16:45
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Furism posted:How good are Galactic North and Chasm City? I mostly like the universe lore, do these books expand on that? I concur with the goons who said Chasm City is one of the best, if not the best, novels in RS. It has atmosphere, rythm, two good stories and well developed characters. Go for it. As for Galactic North. it is a collection of stories of variable quality. I loved "Weather", for instance, but hated "Galactic North". I have always found quite disappointing how AR "closed" his RS Universe, but on the other hand, it is HIS universe so he has the right to gently caress it as he wants.
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Sep 4, 2015 18:30
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DeusExMachinima posted:Seconding T. Pratchett's Small Gods. It's a good point to jump into Discworld too. Just started reading this, and wow, Howard is hilariously racist. quote:There was a Shemitish counterfeiter, with his hook nose and curled blueblack beard. quote:but all men knew what liars were the men of Shem quote:to teach woman-stealing to Zamorians who were born with more knowledge of the art than he could ever attain.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:00
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Yeah, kinda goes without saying. You'll have to try and see past that. They're not political treatises, they're pulp stories from the 1930s.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:12
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tooterfish posted:Yeah, kinda goes without saying. You'll have to try and see past that. ...or not? I mean, there's no law that says you have to enjoy or even read Conan, and "too much racism" is about as good a reason to a book down as any other. Better than most, in fact.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:49
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You'll probably have to avoid most writing then, old or contemporary. Just keep in mind that 80 years from now someone will be trashing our posts for using gendered pronouns or whatever. It comes with the territory.
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Sep 4, 2015 22:01
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Autonomous Monster posted:...or not? I mean, there's no law that says you have to enjoy or even read Conan, and "too much racism" is about as good a reason to a book down as any other. Better than most, in fact. I personally love reading e: because no one calls it the silver age. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 4, 2015 |
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Sep 4, 2015 22:06
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