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Effectronica posted:That's not what I'm saying, and that's not what Main Paineframe is saying either. What is being said is that the minimal, absolute minimal, standard of universal education is failing to be met by our schools, so the priority shouldn't be on focusing on the "gifted" kids, it should be about getting things up to that minimal standard of everyone being able to read and write and do math. I agree that "gifted" students shouldn't be the priority, but, uh, if the purpose of our high schools is to educate our students to that minimal standard, then what's left for those who have as of grade 10? Inasmuch as high schools can also teach intellectually challenging material past that point, aren't they necessarily favoring "gifted" students? Effectronica posted:Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with gym, porky. Awwwwwwwwww.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:38
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Jack of Hearts posted:I agree that "gifted" students shouldn't be the priority, but, uh, if the purpose of our high schools is to educate our students to that minimal standard, then what's left for those who have as of grade 10? Inasmuch as high schools can also teach intellectually challenging material past that point, aren't they necessarily favoring "gifted" students? You're missing the point. The purpose is to ensure everyone reaches a certain standard. Nobody is actually saying that that minimum standard is all that should be achieved, or that you can't educate people beyond even a more acceptable standard. Job Truniht posted:What you just described though is just another No Child Left Behind. It's not going to work. High schools are becoming increasingly irrelevant if we're stuck on "can everyone here do babby math?" School shouldn't hold your hand, it should push you and keep you constantly stressed. Those in turn come to help when you have to go to college and actual deal with real pressure. Talking out of your rear end is rude.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:44
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Panzeh posted:Except with a lovely degree/some college you end up doing it for not much north of minimum wage. the solution is free college education, not to mark a third of the population as the designated menial labor class
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Sep 15, 2015 23:49
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Effectronica posted:You're missing the point. The purpose is to ensure everyone reaches a certain standard. Nobody is actually saying that that minimum standard is all that should be achieved, or that you can't educate people beyond even a more acceptable standard. I am not missing the point. In the abstract, "the purpose is to ensure everyone reaches a certain standard," inasmuch as currently we are not reaching that standard, requires more resources. And, if you've read the thread, eliminating advanced courses has been proposed as a means to do so. You can alleviate this with "more resources should be dedicated toward education," which I agree with.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:52
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Effectronica posted:Talking out of your rear end is rude. He meant to say "high school math is purely algorithmic," which is correct. Outside of geometry.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:54
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Panzeh posted:Most high school kids would gain a lot more from spending half the day at a trade school than trying to get calculus shoved in their face in the vain hope that college will get them something. Calculus isn't just useless college garbage wankery or super specialized science knowledge normal people don't need to know - like other high school math skills, it's applicable to aspects of daily life and a wide variety of occupations, particularly where handling or managing money over long periods of time is involved. Jack of Hearts posted:If you're saying that there are other objectives in high school education, then I agree, chief among them socialization. But if the paramount objective of high school is to achieve these basic proficiencies, what do you do with the ones who already have, and who are nevertheless compelled to attend? They have achieved the desired end; why shouldn't they go and continue their intellectual development in a place that doesn't mandate you take gym? See above. It's more than just "can you read written instructions and perform simple arithmetic", it's about providing "a wide-ranging level of basic knowledge, skills, and life skills that could be potentially applied toward many jobs" - and calculus is among those things. You don't need to go to college to start a business, but calculus is extremely helpful in the kinds of economic calculations you need to do if you're starting one responsibly. Job Truniht posted:What you just described though is just another No Child Left Behind. It's not going to work. High schools are becoming increasingly irrelevant if we're stuck on "can everyone here do babby math?" School shouldn't hold your hand, it should push you and keep you constantly stressed. Those in turn come to help when you have to go to college and actual deal with real pressure. I'll say it again - high school isn't college prep, it's supposed to prepare students to be ready to enter the workforce right out of high school. Some specialized knowledge-based fields may require further education or training, but by the time high school is over students should possess knowledge and skills that are applicable to large portions of the workforce. I'm not saying high school education should stop at "can everyone here do babby math", but if the answer to that question is "No" then that is absolutely far more important than the white kids being bored in class. Right now, only 25 percent of high school seniors are proficient in math; the question at hand should be "how should we improve the learning experience for that large majority of students", not "how can we use this data to further privilege the minority that is performing well".
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Sep 15, 2015 23:58
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Effectronica posted:Talking out of your rear end is rude. Don't be offended for being ignorant. Taking any upper level or graduate course in real analysis or advanced calculus and you'll see what I mean. Therein lies actual math- not the stuff that gives math a horrendous reputation that's still loving taught in schools. Main Paineframe posted:I'll say it again - high school isn't college prep, it's supposed to prepare students to be ready to enter the workforce right out of high school. Some specialized knowledge-based fields may require further education or training, but by the time high school is over students should possess knowledge and skills that are applicable to large portions of the workforce. I'm not saying high school education should stop at "can everyone here do babby math", but if the answer to that question is "No" then that is absolutely far more important than the white kids being bored in class. Right now, only 25 percent of high school seniors are proficient in math; the question at hand should be "how should we improve the learning experience for that large majority of students", not "how can we use this data to further privilege the minority that is performing well". Even if you believe this, the work force doesn't. They've already started taking college level degrees for factory jobs years ago. Stop trying to hold the hands of every student. You're just producing a group of people who go into college with helicopter parents and can't handle any pressure at all.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:03
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Job Truniht posted:Don't be offended for being ignorant. Taking any upper level or graduate course in real analysis or advanced calculus and you'll see what I mean. Therein lies actual math- not the stuff that gives math a horrendous reputation that's still loving taught in schools. I agree. We should teach the calculus of variations starting in the sixth grade. This is the belief of a sane, intelligent man.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:05
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Effectronica posted:I agree. We should teach the calculus of variations starting in the sixth grade. This is the belief of a sane, intelligent man. If you do not understand the theory there is never hope of comprehending the math you do not anything but purely mechanical interaction of input and output. It's like playing board games without knowing the rules for it. Go out and ask someone to prove 5 + 2 is 7. Like, actually prove it, not just simply state it as being the truth.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:09
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Main Paineframe posted:Right now, only 25 percent of high school seniors are proficient in math; the question at hand should be "how should we improve the learning experience for that large majority of students", not "how can we use this data to further privilege the minority that is performing well". Are gifted classes really privileging those kids that much, though? They often cause "issues" in normal classes because they're bored, and a lot of the people who can coast through high school with no effort are hosed as soon as they encounter an actual challenge because they have no work ethic or study skills. Inasmuch as school is just as much about teaching "intangibles" as well as academics, gifted kids would be deprived of those important skills if there were no option for gifted classes available. I've seen someone go down that route, flunk out of university, and try to kill themselves while drunk and high on crack cocaine. I know other people who've faced the similar problem (completely crumbling at their first actual challenge) and gone on to commit suicide because of it. So, when you say that gifted classes are simply privileging an already-privileged minority, I'm going to say you don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about. It's obvious that the current pedagogy is not working for the vast majority of students, but it's a complete non-sequitur to suggest that eliminating gifted classes would do even the tiniest bit to help. Those kids are still going to need to be in some class somewhere, after all.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:11
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Job Truniht posted:If you do not understand the theory there is never hope of comprehending the math you do not anything but purely mechanical interaction of input and output. It's like playing board games without knowing the rules for it. Go out and ask someone to prove 5 + 2 is 7. Like, actually prove it, not just simply state it as being the truth. So you're talking out of your rear end again. Keep it up and you'll earn a gluteoectomy.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:11
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Effectronica posted:So you're talking out of your rear end again. Keep it up and you'll earn a gluteoectomy. It's entirely in your favor to come up with a counter argument People are taught math without understanding the theory behind it, and that's why most people hate it. I struggled with it my whole life until I was retaught from the ground up using theory. Arguing with people who know high school math is like arguing with libertarians, they'll cite arithmetic and call them axioms.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:16
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Job Truniht posted:It's entirely in your favor to come up with a counter argument People are taught math without understanding the theory behind it, and that's why most people hate it. I struggled with it my whole life until I was retaught from the ground up using theory. Arguing with people who know high school math is like arguing with libertarians, they'll cite arithmetic and call them axioms. Basic geometric proofs are taught as part of high-school education in American public schools. Furthermore, your statement assumes that everyone reacts universally and there is one single approach to pedagogy that is, if not literally universal (though frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it was, in your mind), so close to universal such that its apparent lack is condemning enough. This is a laughable statement, but one that is not really challengeable because it's the product of a radically different episteme. So instead I'll smile at the misanthropy on display.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:23
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I wouldn't call it misanthropy. I call it introducing critical thinking skills at a younger age, when concepts like that are much easier to learn and remember. From what I've seen, Common Core's math is trying to do something similar, but in a really weird roundabout way by showing you can arrive at it through the arithmetic. Parents are going apeshit because of it. And I really don't care about this "universal standard for education". This is the 21st century, where humans should be able to live with dignity whether or not they go to college or whether or not they did well on some standardized test. Fundamentally, competitiveness is what killed American schooling to begin with. It should be about the appreciation of knowledge and that's probably partially why the Finns are so drat good at it.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:03
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Job Truniht posted:I wouldn't call it misanthropy. I call it introducing critical thinking skills at a younger age, when concepts like that are much easier to learn and remember. From what I've seen, Common Core's math is trying to do something similar, but in a really weird roundabout way by showing you can arrive at it through the arithmetic. Parents are going apeshit because of it. On the other hand, this approach to education hasn't done you any good, since you're completely unable to interpret simple English sentences that other people write. Maybe it's only about math, that being the sum total of critical thinking, and not, say, the ability to determine whether there's a relationship between pregnancy and childbirth.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:06
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Effectronica posted:On the other hand, this approach to education hasn't done you any good, since you're completely unable to interpret simple English sentences that other people write. Maybe it's only about math, that being the sum total of critical thinking, and not, say, the ability to determine whether there's a relationship between pregnancy and childbirth. Hey, I'm the not the one being a dick and calling up previous debates to win my arguments. You're fundamentally wrong when you say there's "one approach" to abstract math. What it teaches you exactly the opposite of that. I don't get why you guys are so insistent on another variation of "No Child Left Behind", because that's exactly what raising the curriculum does. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that wouldn't just lead to more standardized testing that teachers have to waste their time preparing their students for.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:33
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Job Truniht posted:Hey, I'm the not the one being a dick and calling up previous debates to win my arguments. You're fundamentally wrong when you say there's "one approach" to abstract math. What it teaches you exactly the opposite of that. I don't get why you guys are so insistent on another variation of "No Child Left Behind", because that's exactly what raising the curriculum does. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that wouldn't just lead to more standardized testing that teachers have to waste their time preparing their students for. given your inability to grasp the relationship between pregnancy and birth rates, i don't think you should be talking about causes and effects
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Sep 16, 2015 01:34
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Job Truniht posted:Hey, I'm the not the one being a dick and calling up previous debates to win my arguments. You're fundamentally wrong when you say there's "one approach" to abstract math. What it teaches you exactly the opposite of that. I don't get why you guys are so insistent on another variation of "No Child Left Behind", because that's exactly what raising the curriculum does. You're living in a fantasy world if you think that wouldn't just lead to more standardized testing that teachers have to waste their time preparing their students for. I don't know what you're talking about, I was using it as a representative example of an inability to reason. You simply are unable to understand my simple post, where I accused you of believing in a single pedagogical approach to teaching math, so everything you have built on that house of cards will be dashed to the ground again and again. Thou art Ozymandias, halfwit of halfwits, look upon thy works, we mighty, and despair.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:38
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icantfindaname posted:the solution is free college education, not to mark a third of the population as the designated menial labor class Nothing wrong with not going to college and getting a trade. In this day and age, if you're not going to college for specialized training to work in a field that requires that training (ex doctor nurse lawyer engineer scientist), you might as well avoid the mortgage. Whether you or your perfect Scandinavian government are paying it. The world needs furnace guys, machinists, carpenters etc. You don't need to be ultra educated to get a good job, you just need marketable skills.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:43
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Unseen posted:Nothing wrong with not going to college and getting a trade. In this day and age, if you're not going to college for specialized training to work in a field that requires that training (ex doctor nurse lawyer engineer scientist), you might as well avoid the mortgage. Whether you or your perfect Scandinavian government are paying it. There's actually plenty wrong with it, given working conditions for even unionized skilled laborers in today's world. Most people would rather have the sort of comfort associated with white-collar positions, which is why they encourage their kids to go to college.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:45
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Unseen posted:Nothing wrong with not going to college and getting a trade. In this day and age, if you're not going to college for specialized training to work in a field that requires that training (ex doctor nurse lawyer engineer scientist), you might as well avoid the mortgage. Whether you or your perfect Scandinavian government are paying it. What's wrong is when all the tradesmen are mysteriously black people and hispanics.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:46
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Effectronica posted:I don't know what you're talking about, I was using it as a representative example of an inability to reason. You simply are unable to understand my simple post, where I accused you of believing in a single pedagogical approach to teaching math, so everything you have built on that house of cards will be dashed to the ground again and again. Thou art Ozymandias, halfwit of halfwits, look upon thy works, we mighty, and despair. Because I thought that was utter nonsense. If you lack even a consistent pedagogical approach to teaching a concept that is both consistent and logical, you're just going to end up confusing someone. A thousand bad methods to teaching someone math won't outdo one good method, and unfortunately the best people who I've seen teach the subject teach it from this approach. Teaching people arithmetic just to teach people concept is wildly inefficient, even at glance. Especially if it ends up showing nothing about how that person you're trying to teach thinks.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:49
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Job Truniht posted:Because I thought that was utter nonsense. If you lack even a consistent pedagogical approach to teaching a concept that is both consistent and logical, you're just going to end up confusing someone. A thousand bad methods to teaching someone math won't outdo one good method, and unfortunately the best people who I've seen teach the subject teach it from this approach. Teaching people arithmetic just to teach people concept is wildly inefficient, even at glance. Especially if it ends up showing nothing about how that person you're trying to teach thinks. Have you considered that, in terms of teaching people arithmetic so they can do loving arithmetic, it's pretty efficient to actually teach arithmetic.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:52
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Unseen posted:Nothing wrong with not going to college and getting a trade. In this day and age, if you're not going to college for specialized training to work in a field that requires that training (ex doctor nurse lawyer engineer scientist), you might as well avoid the mortgage. Whether you or your perfect Scandinavian government are paying it. how is it taking out a mortgage if you're not the one paying for it
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Sep 16, 2015 01:56
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Effectronica posted:Have you considered that, in terms of teaching people arithmetic so they can do loving arithmetic, it's pretty efficient to actually teach arithmetic. Yeah, they're nearly as efficient as a calculator. I'm certainly not as good as Wolfram Alpha is. Look, you don't even have to teach people math to learn math. Board games make a great introduction to the sort of critical thinking skills you end up using in math. And from my personal experience, it's much harder to teach someone if they hate it. Make it interesting. Don't teach a cosmology class without talking about the fate of the universe. Don't teach a math class without explaining why it has advanced beyond whatever was taught sometime during the Ptolemaic Dynasty. Do something with the human brain that a computer cannot do.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:13
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Job Truniht posted:Yeah, they're nearly as efficient as a calculator. I'm certainly not as good as Wolfram Alpha is. Look, you don't even have to teach people math to learn math. Board games make a great introduction to the sort of critical thinking skills you end up using in math. And from my personal experience, it's much harder to teach someone if they hate it. Make it interesting. Don't teach a cosmology class without talking about the fate of the universe. Don't teach a math class without explaining why it has advanced beyond whatever was taught sometime during the Ptolemaic Dynasty. Do something with the human brain that a computer cannot do. I could have written a sarcastic little gibe about someone whipping out a TI-84 Silver Plus to figure out how many quarters for their soda from the vending machine, but instead: The Feeling of Power, Isaac Asimov posted:Jehan Shuman was used to dealing with the men in authority on long-embattled earth. He was only a civilian but he originated programming patterns that resulted in self-directing war computers of the highest sort. Generals, consequently listened to him. Heads of congressional committees too.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:20
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Effectronica posted:I could have written a sarcastic little gibe about someone whipping out a TI-84 Silver Plus to figure out how many quarters for their soda from the vending machine, but instead: Fortunately, TI-84s are pretty obsolete. And that short story was written around the time engineers were still using slide rules during their midterms. Would Asimov unironically think the same thing today? This is the same guy who also wrote this.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:36
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Literally The Worst posted:how is it taking out a mortgage if you're not the one paying for it Professors in socialist wunderlands work for free right? You will pay it one way or another.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:36
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Job Truniht posted:Fortunately, TI-84s are pretty obsolete. And that short story was written around the time engineers were still using slide rules during their midterms. Would Asimov unironically think the same thing today? This is the same guy who also wrote this. Tell me what you think the story is about, but give me five or six minutes to open up a beer first. Unseen posted:Professors in socialist wunderlands work for free right? You will pay it one way or another. What does this have to do with anything?
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Sep 16, 2015 02:40
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Effectronica posted:What does this have to do with anything? Actually not much of anything and I made the mistake of going there. Effectronica posted:There's actually plenty wrong with it, given working conditions for even unionized skilled laborers in today's world. Most people would rather have the sort of comfort associated with white-collar positions, which is why they encourage their kids to go to college. My original point was that you can make reasonable money with a trade as opposed to going to college and sinking yourself in a $50k-$100k debt pit. Especially if you're just going to college just because you heard people will pay you more if you get a degree. Yeah, if you're a carpenter, you might have to work out in the rain. Furnace guy and mechanic will need to wash their hands with fast orange cause they get greasy. But you talk about it like it's slave labor in Bangladesh. In earlier posts I mentioned there are academically oriented kids who study and do their work, and catch on to advanced topics. And how there are kids who don't give a poo poo about academics. Separating them into different classes and course work allows teachers to cater to each group. People try to make it a social justice issue. The bottom line is, everyone is different and who cares. Let the smart kids get smarter and the kids who don't give a poo poo learn something else (tech school).
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Sep 16, 2015 04:04
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Unseen posted:My original point was that you can make reasonable money with a trade as opposed to going to college and sinking yourself in a $50k-$100k debt pit. Especially if you're just going to college just because you heard people will pay you more if you get a degree. Nope, I talk about it as though it were worse than white-collar labor, which it is. Even leaving aside 70-80 hour weeks, leaving aside the fact that you don't work consistent hours anymore, instead doing piecework jobs for a few days or weeks and then spending time looking for the next gig, leaving aside that training will actually take you longer than a bachelor's (apprenticeships are five years, and then you have trade schools proper, so it can even rival a doctorate for some specialty fields), leaving aside the whole supply-and-demand thing, leaving aside the health risks, there's the simple fact that the work environment of a blue-collar job is inherently worse in 99% of cases than that of a white-collar job. So even though white-collar jobs might pay less on average than a unionized electrician or other skilled blue-collar job, under ideal conditions for both, there's still that big gap that makes white-collar work more attractive. Now, in theory, and making talk about socialism at least tangentially relevant, you could adjust conditions so that blue-collar work was competitive with white-collar work in this area. Say, electricians work for 6 hours on average, or something. Of course, this requires eliminating wage labor, and eliminating a lot of class distinctions and social hierarchies, so it will never happen. And in the real world, conditions are even worse (although it's harder to get into a white-collar job, it's more stable once you have it). Of course, your post could have spilled from David Brooks's lips, with this belief that social structure is like some warped version of high-school cliques where you could move around freely between cliques. "Separate but equal" is inherently unequal, and not just in matters of race.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:17
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Effectronica posted:Nope, I talk about it as though it were worse than white-collar labor, which it is. Even leaving aside 70-80 hour weeks, leaving aside the fact that you don't work consistent hours anymore, instead doing piecework jobs for a few days or weeks and then spending time looking for the next gig, leaving aside that training will actually take you longer than a bachelor's (apprenticeships are five years, and then you have trade schools proper, so it can even rival a doctorate for some specialty fields), leaving aside the whole supply-and-demand thing, leaving aside the health risks, there's the simple fact that the work environment of a blue-collar job is inherently worse in 99% of cases than that of a white-collar job. In the real job environment, the extra years in the job are worth a lot more than 4 years of college and a marginally relevant degree. Yes, there are degrees that will win every time in this comparison, but most of them won't. Of course, some smart people parlay poo poo degrees into good white-collar jobs, but many just end up working a touch ahead in retail than a HS-educated worker and don't do much better than a tradesman. Even science majors often end up doing trash work and making less than tradesmen.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:36
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Main Paineframe posted:See above. It's more than just "can you read written instructions and perform simple arithmetic", it's about providing "a wide-ranging level of basic knowledge, skills, and life skills that could be potentially applied toward many jobs" - and calculus is among those things. You don't need to go to college to start a business, but calculus is extremely helpful in the kinds of economic calculations you need to do if you're starting one responsibly. I don't quite understand. Are you saying that calculus is part of a "basic but comprehensive education," which you argue the school system is failing to provide? That's fine, as far as it goes, but it's difficult to criticize schools for not teaching kids calculus when they legitimately don't give a poo poo. (Source: I was a kid who made it to calculus who didn't give a poo poo.)
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Sep 16, 2015 04:38
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Panzeh posted:In the real job environment, the extra years in the job are worth a lot more than 4 years of college and a marginally relevant degree. Yes, there are degrees that will win every time in this comparison, but most of them won't. Of course, some smart people parlay poo poo degrees into good white-collar jobs, but many just end up working a touch ahead in retail than a HS-educated worker and don't do much better than a tradesman. Cool job ignoring everything I wrote in favor of repeating blather about how skilled work pays more. Are you a man or a mynah?
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Sep 16, 2015 04:39
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Effectronica posted:Cool job ignoring everything I wrote in favor of repeating blather about how skilled work pays more. Are you a man or a mynah? They do get poo poo on but then everyone gets poo poo on- lovely white collar work for example gives you poo poo tons of unpaid OT. I'm not gonna disagree that people get poo poo on either way.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:42
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Panzeh posted:They do get poo poo on but then everyone gets poo poo on- lovely white collar work for example gives you poo poo tons of unpaid OT. I'm not gonna disagree that people get poo poo on either way. It's not a question of getting poo poo on. Can you read, or are you just putting up a somewhat convincing fake?
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Sep 16, 2015 04:43
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Effectronica posted:It's not a question of getting poo poo on. Can you read, or are you just putting up a somewhat convincing fake? Your compulsion to insult everyone who disagrees with you is amusing in light of your supernatural thread, in which you convinced everyone who wasn't you that you're an idiot lunatic. It's cool that you think you're smarter than everyone else, but it'd be nice if you did literally anything to justify that notion before going off on people with opinions with which you disagree.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:50
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Effectronica posted:It's not a question of getting poo poo on. Can you read, or are you just putting up a somewhat convincing fake? You can kinda tell me about the cushy white-collar nature of being an assistant manager of a wal-mart and then tell me about how a paying apprenticeship(which is also common in other college degree fields such as architecture) is worse than dropping thousands of dollars on college. You sound like a loving idiot when you think trash degrees are better than trade school(and btw, with most trade school programs in high school you can do both).
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Sep 16, 2015 04:52
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Panzeh posted:You can kinda tell me about the cushy white-collar nature of being an assistant manager of a wal-mart and then tell me about how a paying apprenticeship(which is also common in other college degree fields such as architecture) is worse than dropping thousands of dollars on college. I said that, assuming the best possible cases for white-collar and blue-collar jobs, the blue-collar job still has a worse working environment. This is true. You can compare the highest end of blue-collar work to the lowest end of white-collar work all you want, but it's transparently about avoiding engaging with dissidence. When you take the actual conditions of those employments, the gap widens further. For example, a nuclear power plant during a refueling outage will run 84-hour weeks. But white-collar workers at the plant are still working that 7-12 shift in better conditions than the carpenters or pipefitters or millwrights. We can go on to health risks, the increasingly irregular nature of blue-collar skilled labor, and the fact that supply and demand means that these gaps will widen as you force people into the skilled trades. All of it makes white-collar work more attractive to people, even to blue-collar skilled workers, even though it pays less on average (and this is questionable, once you take the actual amount of education involved into question), because it offers a better environment. Which is a large part of why people prefer college for their kids than skilled trades. Correcting these issues requires some major changes to society that belie the inherently elitist and anti-democratic nature of such suggestions, along with the smoldering hatred of knowledge and intellectualism.
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Sep 16, 2015 05:03
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Effectronica posted:Tell me what you think the story is about, but give me five or six minutes to open up a beer first. Computers can't do abstract. They can't write journal papers. We can do computing, but we can also do many more things in mathematics than that. Computers are not worth more than people. It describes a logically impossible hypothetical situation written at a time when computers and computing were relatively new, large, and expensive. In other words, this story is not meant to be taken at face value. Understanding arithmetic doesn't meant you understand the fundamentals of math, which are never taught at a high school level. However, the inverse is always true. If you understand the fundamentals of mathematics, you understand arithmetic.
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Sep 16, 2015 05:08
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