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I'd like some opinions. I live in an area where I have at least 15 lodges within 40 miles of me. I have found one I really like but it's roughly 40 miles away (about an hour drive.) I feel I gel with the brethren there fairly well and they have activities for the ladies so I can bring my wife along for dinner and she'll have something fun to do. On the other hand there's a lodge within walking distance to me. The brothers there are fine and I get my masonic fix from visiting them but they don't have the perks of what I mentioned above. I don't have the inclination to be active in two lodges so I'm having a very hard time deciding where to put my energy. Thoughts?
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Aug 6, 2015 15:19
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Lovable Luciferian posted:I'd like some opinions. I live in an area where I have at least 15 lodges within 40 miles of me. I have found one I really like but it's roughly 40 miles away (about an hour drive.) I feel I gel with the brethren there fairly well and they have activities for the ladies so I can bring my wife along for dinner and she'll have something fun to do. On the other hand there's a lodge within walking distance to me. The brothers there are fine and I get my masonic fix from visiting them but they don't have the perks of what I mentioned above. I don't have the inclination to be active in two lodges so I'm having a very hard time deciding where to put my energy. I'd go to the close one and see what I can make of it. There's nothing stopping you from taking your wife to the distant lodge for activities there and bringing your lessons back to your home lodge. Visiting brethren are always welcome. That hour drive (2 hours round trip?) will likely grind you down until you stop going.
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Aug 6, 2015 23:25
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patentmagus posted:I'd go to the close one and see what I can make of it. There's nothing stopping you from taking your wife to the distant lodge for activities there and bringing your lessons back to your home lodge. Visiting brethren are always welcome.
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Aug 7, 2015 03:14
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Any Las Vegas Masons here? There is a specific request and will take a bit of time so please PM me if you are willing to participate. Some time = two or three hours of your life you will never get back.
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Aug 10, 2015 19:02
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Vote on my membership is happening October 13th, and if everything goes well I get to start degree work in November.
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Aug 29, 2015 22:01
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I may be undertaking the Mark Man ceremony next month.
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Aug 30, 2015 14:32
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After years I finally had another Mason recognise my cufflinks and asking me for the words. Unfortunately he is from the UK and I am from the Netherlands so we had no way to ensure each other membership, appearantly the handshake is different as well. Hey, it was cool and next time he is over I will find some degree work in the area where so we can visit a lodge and he can see some local performance and I have a chance to visit another lodge :-)
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Sep 3, 2015 19:36
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Been pretty quiet in here lately. I'm conferring the Order of Malta today to 16 candidates  I've also been elected as District Grand Lecturer for the Commandery... So that's gonna keep me busy.
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Sep 12, 2015 15:03
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Quiet indeed but I have a question that could get some more information rolling. I have been invited to join the Scottish rites by one brother and I got invited to join the Rosecrusarians. Now without giving anything away in a public forum or for someone not familiar with either, what would the MM's here say is the difference and which would be preferable?
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Sep 16, 2015 09:00
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Do you have the time to participate in both? Is it a Masonic Rosicrucian order or a semi-Masonic Rosicrucian one, since there are both?
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Sep 16, 2015 09:13
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Keetron posted:Quiet indeed but I have a question that could get some more information rolling. I'd jump at the chance to join SRIA. Disclaimer that I'm not actually part of any appendant bodies. Here are the classic Rosicrucian documents from the early 1600s that inspired all later groups. http://hermetic.com/norton/pdf/Rosicrucian.pdf
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Sep 16, 2015 09:54
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Sub Rosa posted:I'd jump at the chance to join SRIA. Disclaimer that I'm not actually part of any appendant bodies. I checked out wikipedia and it is claimed one should be a Christian which I am definitely not. I'll discuss this at the next time I meet this brother how it is looked upon over here.
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Sep 16, 2015 11:13
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Keetron posted:I checked out wikipedia and it is claimed one should be a Christian which I am definitely not. I'll discuss this at the next time I meet this brother how it is looked upon over here. I guess that makes sense as Rosicrucianism is very heavily Christian flavored mysticism, unsurprising being that its inspiration is from Europe circa 1600s, but still unfortunate.
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Sep 16, 2015 11:22
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Sub Rosa posted:I'd jump at the chance to join SRIA. Disclaimer that I'm not actually part of any appendant bodies. Interesting thing to note - I've had a number of people tell me that SRICF is a crock, and basically just a popularity club for past Grand officers to put on their "Masonic resume". I personally found the same in the Scottish Rite, but I know there's a lot of BS politics in my local bodies, so I don't want to attribute that to the organization as a whole. One guy told me, "you know how you can fix the Scottish Rite? Get rid of the hats." And I 100% agree with him. It's a shame how little people (at least around here) seem to care about the esoteric aspect of Masonry, and most people including myself have to look outside of the Craft to find it. But that's a conversation for another time and place 
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Sep 16, 2015 13:32
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I'm a Scottish Rite Member, as well as a member of the SRICF, and the Royal Order of Scotland. The SRICF is easily my favorite masonic activity. In that body, you advance by presenting and defending papers before the college, it's not for the faint of heart. The R.O.S. is basically a cash cow scam for a few select Scots, as far as I can tell. (The degrees were lovely tho.) I wish I had never joined. As for the Scottish Rite, I'm fortunate that I'm in a good Valley, others aren't so lucky. I have mixed feelings about the hats too... I wish we all just wore the black ones. SRICF, and ROS are Christian only. I fit that description only by the slightest of margins, but it's enough. Cholmondeley fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Sep 17, 2015 |
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Sep 17, 2015 02:27
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What's with the whole "Christian only" thing in these appendant bodies? Seems kind of arbitrary.
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Sep 17, 2015 03:03
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I'm actually facing a similar issue to a degree. It is my sincere wish - and the wish of my brothers here for me - to advance into both the Royal Arch and the Scottish Rite. Unfortunately, here there are both Christian and non-Christian degrees in the Arch. Depending on their specific wording, I might be fine - if we have to swear to be Christians, no go, if we have to swear as some other appendant bodies to defend Christianity, no problem. Also it turns out I'm being set up for WM in two years, which is terrifying.
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Sep 17, 2015 05:04
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COOL CORN posted:Interesting thing to note - I've had a number of people tell me that SRICF is a crock, and basically just a popularity club for past Grand officers to put on their "Masonic resume". I personally found the same in the Scottish Rite, but I know there's a lot of BS politics in my local bodies, so I don't want to attribute that to the organization as a whole. One guy told me, "you know how you can fix the Scottish Rite? Get rid of the hats." And I 100% agree with him. Can you explain some of the esoteric potential in masonry to a non-mason? Even some general guidelines of what could be expected would be really interesting. To be frank, the body of esoteric hermetic and rosicrucianist self-ennoblement stored in masonry is the greatest biggest draw for me to join one day.
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Sep 17, 2015 09:19
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Cholmondeley posted:I'm a Scottish Rite Member, as well as a member of the SRICF, and the Royal Order of Scotland. The SRICF is easily my favorite masonic activity. In that body, you advance by presenting and defending papers before the college, it's not for the faint of heart. The R.O.S. is basically a cash cow scam for a few select Scots, as far as I can tell. (The degrees were lovely tho.) What I was told about the SRICF is that, on a local scale, it used to be all about research and esoteric papers, but the presiding officer (I'm not sure what he's called) kicked all of the researchers out of the line in favor of yes-men who basically treat it as just another Blue Lodge. And the upcoming officers are basically just being groomed to do the same. Which is a real bummer! But, I don't want to talk too much about it since I'm not a member and don't want to badmouth a group I don't know that well. Tias posted:Can you explain some of the esoteric potential in masonry to a non-mason? Even some general guidelines of what could be expected would be really interesting. It's a total rabbit hole, and you only go so far as you want to down it. I'd say 70% (probably higher) of Masons go through the degrees, learn what they're supposed to, and don't put too much critical though into it. But you can (literally) spend your entire life studying the symbolism of the regular Masonic lodge, the degrees of the York Rite, and the degrees of the Scottish Rite. If you want a taste of what's available, you can read Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma here - http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/md/index.htm - if you have any interest in becoming a Mason, I wouldn't read TOO much of the book, but honestly it's so dense and cryptic that it won't spoil much for you. But you can find astrological symbolism, traces of old Pagan rites, Kabbalistic symbolism, Sufi symbolism, there's a ton there. But, again, it's just as easy to see it just for its surface value and just show up for the BBQs and lodge meetings.
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Sep 17, 2015 13:18
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How often do new appendant bodies pop up? Do they almost all have long histories, or are the ones with long histories just the ones commonly discussed because they' ve spread further and are less local?
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Sep 18, 2015 20:09
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GlyphGryph posted:How often do new appendant bodies pop up? Do they almost all have long histories, or are the ones with long histories just the ones commonly discussed because they' I haven't personally heard of a new one coming up since the 60s or so, and even those are expansion or rejuvenations of older groups (see: Knight Masons, Allied Masonic Degrees, etc.) So basically, it's the former more than the latter. Honestly, a Masonic body without a lineage or history is usually a red flag that it's not legit.
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Sep 18, 2015 20:16
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COOL CORN posted:I haven't personally heard of a new one coming up since the 60s or so, and even those are expansion or rejuvenations of older groups (see: Knight Masons, Allied Masonic Degrees, etc.) Well yeah I'd imagine some sort of spin off or splinter or appropriation would form the basis of any new body that did come up for exactly that reason, but most of them were obviously new at some point and tradition has always been a pretty important Masonic thing as far as I know so it's clearly possible. I'm actually pretty interested in the history of things and how these appendent bodies got started and why.
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Sep 18, 2015 20:20
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GlyphGryph posted:Well yeah I'd imagine some sort of spin off or splinter or appropriation would form the basis of any new body that did come up for exactly that reason, but most of them were obviously new at some point and tradition has always been a pretty important Masonic thing as far as I know so it's clearly possible. History tends to be tough to run across on the internet. For example, there's a library at my local Masonic temple, and there are... just... volumes and volumes of history of every group that meets there. 5 blue lodges, Royal Arch, Cryptic Masons, Knights Templar, Scottish Rite, Allied Masonic Degrees, Knight Masons, Shriners, and even books about other local bodies around the state. And none of it is online! It's a real bummer, it can be really hard to research Masonic history on a more global scale.
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Sep 18, 2015 20:23
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COOL CORN posted:History tends to be tough to run across on the internet. For example, there's a library at my local Masonic temple, and there are... just... volumes and volumes of history of every group that meets there. 5 blue lodges, Royal Arch, Cryptic Masons, Knights Templar, Scottish Rite, Allied Masonic Degrees, Knight Masons, Shriners, and even books about other local bodies around the state. Once I'm in (vote in two weeks, fingers crossed) I'm looking forward to being able to dig in to that sort of stuff. If it's not all easily available on the internet, all the better, maybe it will give me an excuse to travel! 
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Sep 18, 2015 20:27
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I spoke to a CA Grand Lodge officer about this. They told me it was next to impossible to start a new one, at least in our jurisdiction.
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Sep 18, 2015 20:29
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GlyphGryph posted:...maybe it will give me an excuse to travel! That could be the title of the next Mason thread. Whenever that happens.
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Sep 18, 2015 20:30
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It is very difficult to start new appendant bodies and get them recognized as in amity. While there is, strictly speaking, nothing stopping me from organizing a new appendant body tomorrow built around, I don't know, the mythology of Heimdal with a masonic bent to it, and while this body would not strictly speaking be irregular so long as I revealed nothing improper, the chances of it being recognized by any grand lodge are very slim. Basically, what you'd need to get that recognition of explicit validity and camraderie (ala what the Scottish Rite and Royal Arch enjoy (well, not the RA and its explicit position as the completion of masonry)): * No teachings or practices that run contrary to Pure and Ancient Freemasonry, whether factually or by mere appearance. So no expressly atheist appendant bodies, etc. * Sufficient membership to be able to exert some form of influence over the Grand Lodge by weight of numbers. * The goodwill of the Grandmaster, and a GL constitution that does not prohibit membership and formation of such new bodies. So in theory, it's doable, but it's not exactly likely. More likely any new appendant bodies that exist are quiet, small, private affairs that are neither strictly permitted/encouraged nor forbidden; e.g., a gathering of men who work a new psuedo-Masonic ritual focused on the moral lessons of the myth of Benaiah, servant of King Solomon, to brazenly steal from Hand of God. That's the best bet, really - exist long enough, without controversy, that when the time comes to petition for amity you can say 'well, we've been doing this for forty years and never once given GL any issues or cause for alarm'. Claiming to hold new outright Masonic secrets would go down badly; claiming to work a ritual that, rather than having new teachings in and of itself, reveals or elaborates on a dimension of the teachings otherwise left in the background is a safer bet. But, I could also be completely wrong here, so take all that with a grain of salt. On a personal note, I was made a mark mason the other evening and the W.S. charge is a beautiful piece of work.
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Sep 19, 2015 07:52
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About the nearest approximation I see these days of "new" Masonic groups are the Traditional Observance lodges that seem to be the trendy new thing in some jurisdictions. They claim to be trying to "save" modern Masonry by making it more exclusive and discriminatory.
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Sep 21, 2015 01:01
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Even they're just normal lodges doing things slightly oddly. I'm torn on the TO movement, incidentally. I wholeheartedly approve of their effort to expand and enhance the Masonic experience and restore largely overlooked moral, esoteric and philosophical elements over the social club element which, while lovely, has had an injuriously over-large influence over our noble society. I do not, however, agree that the best way to do so is to be rigid in who may join. Were that the case, I would not be a mason, nor would many of my worthiest brothers! Nor do I believe it is necessary to charge high dues, unless those dues are needed to maintain a particularly grand temple. I should sooner have a lodge of paupers who embody the meaning of masonry than a lodge of middle class men who haven't the faintest clue. While I agree that a grand south is lovely and can help keep men in the craft, it is not the true value of the craft. And while there may be something to be said for 'people will want it more if its harder to get', the way to create that is not through rigid selection criteria or high dues, but by taking the time to know each applicant and scrutinize him. If we want quality members, we have to invest time in their selection, not just make it less appealing for them to come in. The skilled workman does not select the most expensive, rarest material to take his chisel to simply because it is the most expensive, rarest material. He selects his material with care for its purpose, and a rough stone of seemingly lesser quality may serve more admirably than the finest polished marble when selected with care, smoothed with love, and installed with knowledge.
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Sep 21, 2015 04:39
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As a member of a TO lodge, I'm of two minds about it as well. On the one hand, my home lodge is ultra lax - as in, the Senior Warden showed up to an initiation wearing basketball shorts and sandals. I hate to see Freemasonry go that far into acceptance. It's something that means a lot to me, and I try to show that by putting an effort into my appearance when I show up. I'm even okay with there being a dress code (e.g. tuxedo and gloves). But I agree that a high dues cost is a bad thing. The argument I've heard from members of my TO lodge is that some lodges in the 1800s set their yearly dues as "10% of one month's pay"... which, for me at least, would be about what I'm paying at my TO lodge. I know that all of my money isn't going directly into rent and meals, but mostly into the bank. So, I do see both sides, but I also really enjoy seeing esotericism become the center of the lodge again. I understand it's not for everybody, but I enjoy that aspect.
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Sep 22, 2015 20:16
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I definitely agree on the clothing front, though that's a distinct matter. My lodge has a policy of, if a brother can't afford a suit, finding one for him from another brother in the right size or second hand. A loosened membership policy need not mean lodges held in khakis and t-shirts. Really, I think the thing is that we need a membership policy that is, at its core, focused on selecting people not based on exterior characteristics but the interior, which demands much more of the Lodge than of the candidate. A good board of investigation is key to it. I'm fortunate enough to belong to a lodge that puts great emphasis in, and pride on, our ritual work. We know the ritual, we do it right, and we make sure every new brother understands it as best he can. The only mistakes made are lines momentarily forgotten or accidentally swapped in order, and that lies in the extreme old age of the brethren (if you're 80+ and still active in lodge, I say you get a pass if you need a prompt during a long charge!) It highlights the difference when I go to other lodges and see men stumble over basic lines, basic principles, and basic floor work. I consider my lodge's standard a baseline that every lodge should meet: Ritual done professionally, smoothly, and correctly, and done at every meeting either as exemplification or on a candidate, coupled with lectures here and there. Brethren dress respectfully given their means and circumstances, refrain from swearing in the lodge or at the south, and comport themselves with the due dignity of a worthy and worshipful lodge. Guests and visitors are made to feel very welcome from the moment they arrive, and no new brother is left without an experienced companion during his first year (I've sat in that role a couple of times myself, to explain to someone newer what's going on or the history of a piece of work, since I've managed to cram a lot of learning into a short space of time) at the lodge. Our WM even rises from his seat, which is not usually done around here, to greet visiting masons with a handshake personally; visiting masters on the dais, visiting lower brethren if there's only one or two from the first step of the dais. This, to me, is closer to keeping with the true nature of our organization's virtues of B.L., R., and T. than to refrain from doing so to 'be proper'. Ultimately, you get out what you put in. This applies to the lodge itself as well. If you put in exclusive, expensive men, you will have an exclusive, expensive lodge. If you fail to also put in men of suitable character, you will get a lodge that lacks the true spirit of masonry. This combination has been one of the most injurious to our craft: we all know of a brother here and there who joins solely for the purposes of business or political advancement and contacts. Unfortunately, so does the wider world, and unlike us, that is all they see. T.O is an attempt to deal with this, and we'll have to see how it plays out in the long run, but I do not believe that in and of itself the philosophy that 'it needs to be very exclusive' is the right path to remedy the rot of corruption that unfortunately, from time to time, insinuates itself into the 'premier' lodges.
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Sep 23, 2015 05:23
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Can a transsexual person be a mason?
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Oct 1, 2015 09:56
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There is no official ruling, so it is a matter left to each mason's conscience when it comes time to vote, though I stand by the following principles: A transman is a man. A man may be a mason. Thus, a transman may be a mason. A transwoman is a woman. A woman may not be a mason, or at least not a regular one. Thus, a transwoman may not be a mason. The only difficulty I personally have with the question is if a brother decides to become a sister, so to speak, but in that case I feel the appropriate Masonic response is to treat them as a brother until such a time as they transition to whatever extent they do, and thereafter extend to them the same warmth, love and courtesy given to former members who left in good standing. As we are an organization built on brotherly love, anything less than reasonably full support of a brother embarking on such a journey would be unmasonic. The only objections such a stance usually gets are based either on esoteric concerns that are extrinsic to ancient and accepted masonry's actual teachings or on a belief that sociological gender is not a fluid construct and is innately linked to biological sex.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:11
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Only a man may be made a Mason, there's no reason to reject them if they transition afterwards. Otherwise I agree, a transman is a man, a transwoman is not.
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Oct 1, 2015 17:33
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Colonial Air Force posted:Only a man may be made a Mason, there's no reason to reject them if they transition afterwards. Was just getting ready to post this!
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Oct 1, 2015 17:43
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Can't we just make it something like "You can join if you have a cock and balls, or a cock and prosthetic balls" ? I bet I'm leaving out a group of people and have horribly offended someone, sorry if I did!
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Oct 1, 2015 19:37
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Lovable Luciferian posted:Can't we just make it something like "You can join if you have a cock and balls, or a cock and prosthetic balls" ? What if a dude lost his junk in the war!?
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Oct 1, 2015 19:41
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Colonial Air Force posted:What if a dude lost his junk in the war!? gently caress! See, I knew I was missing some sort of edge case scenario.
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Oct 1, 2015 19:43
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I'm not trans, I was just wondering in a academic sense
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Oct 1, 2015 20:54
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Dirigibleful posted:I'm not trans, I was just wondering in a academic sense Truthfully, it depends on the Lodge, and it would likely cause a huge commotion. Most of the Masons in here tend to be more socially liberal, because this is SA and we're generally younger. In an actual lodge, my guess is they'd be blackcubed almost immediately, if it even made it that far.
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Oct 1, 2015 20:59
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