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YoursTruly posted:Putting Iran next to Israel sounds like a bad idea, just asking for a few airstrikes and potential escalation. I would have figured Russia to get assigned that territory, considering it has the best relations with Israel of the various parties. Iran's whole reason for being involved in this war, aside from generic hegemony, is to secure their ability to arm and fund Hezbollah. They wouldn't give up influence along that route without a fight. Israel already killed a few Iranians, including a high ranking officer, bombing Hezbollah in Syria, and nothing major happened in response. WoodrowSkillson posted:i know it will probably end up being used against the revolutionaries as well, but good, gently caress isis. i do not see how the revolution could have actually won once isis joined the fight. i hope they can negotiate SOMETHING. If the US couldn't kill them all, Assad doesn't stand much of a chance. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 16:29
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I suddenly have a vision of IDF tanks figthing alongside Al Nursa infantry facing off against Russian helicopters, Lebanese troops and Iranian artillery while a US drone hovers serenly above the fray.
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Sep 26, 2015 16:32
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Volkerball posted:If the US couldn't kill them all The correct word is 'wouldn't'. We are capable but unwilling.
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Sep 26, 2015 16:35
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McDowell posted:The correct word is 'wouldn't'. Assad is willing but incapable, seeing as the regime has no nukes.
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Sep 26, 2015 16:36
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Baudolino posted:I suddenly have a vision of IDF tanks figthing alongside Al Nursa infantry facing off against Russian helicopters, Lebanese troops and Iranian artillery while a US drone hovers serenly above the fray. quote:Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon
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Sep 26, 2015 18:11
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OctaMurk posted:Russian marines have seen combat against ISIS and the RFAF is scaling up airstrike on ISIS outside Kuweires AB; Hezbollah formed an armored brigade of 75 tanks for deployment to Syria, the Iranian military is scaling up deployment to Syria and areas of responsibility are being assigned to Russia and Iran. The Russian intervention has apparently been many months in the making. Just how reliable is this source? This is all very specific info and regardless how pathetic the mainstream media is I would think even they would pick up on this. Iranian revolutionary guard troops being deployed? A newly formed Hezbollah tank unit??? Iranians being deployed to the Golan? I don't know. I'm not saying none of this could be true but right now I'm really skeptical.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:21
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Now Britain is warming up to the idea of a 'transition period' in which Bashar can stay in power for a certain time frame to end the civil war. Yeah. I wonder what Bashar would do within that time frame to make sure he stays forever.
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Sep 26, 2015 22:55
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Al-Saqr posted:Now Britain is warming up to the idea of a 'transition period' in which Bashar can stay in power for a certain time frame to end the civil war. I dunno. Probably a bunch of horrible atrocities that only serve to - oh, you were being rhetorical. 
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Sep 26, 2015 23:19
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Aftermath of a Houthi ambush on Saudi forces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKsRlW2Qkg0
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Sep 26, 2015 23:58
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Al-Saqr posted:Now Britain is warming up to the idea of a 'transition period' in which Bashar can stay in power for a certain time frame to end the civil war. I am sad that he and his family wont be brutally killed. he and his family are monsters who have brought about the deaths of thousands of people. A dark part of me wants ISIS to catch the fucker and butcher him on camera. Yeah i sound like an edgy rear end in a top hat about this. But i am loving sick of monster getting away with killing tons of people because we need to have "stability" what "stability"? syria as a country barely loving exists anymore its a quagmire of death now. this poo poo genuinely upsets me. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 00:14
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am sad that he and his family wont be brutally killed. he and his family are monsters who have brought about the deaths of thousands of people. A dark part of me wants ISIS to catch the fucker and butcher him on camera. Yeah i sound like an edgy rear end in a top hat about this. But i am loving sick of monster getting away with killing tons of people because we need to have "stability" what "stability"? syria as a country barely loving exists anymore its a quagmire of death now. I kinda want him to die in some kind of bizarre sex accident, like getting crushed by an amorous manatee while wearing women's underwear and a clown nose. But standing trial for war crimes would be even better.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:23
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Blue Footed Booby posted:I kinda want him to die in some kind of bizarre sex accident, like getting crushed by an amorous manatee while wearing women's underwear and a clown nose. He won't though, because he sucked papa putins cock enough, so now putin can send a ton of russians to die for him. even if he was brought to trial russia will veto it just like in serbia. Just send a delta team in to do it. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 00:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am sad that he and his family wont be brutally killed. he and his family are monsters who have brought about the deaths of thousands of people. A dark part of me wants ISIS to catch the fucker and butcher him on camera. Yeah i sound like an edgy rear end in a top hat about this. But i am loving sick of monster getting away with killing tons of people because we need to have "stability" what "stability"? syria as a country barely loving exists anymore its a quagmire of death now. this poo poo genuinely upsets me. Stability is just an excuse. The powers that be want someone who will do as they say. Early 1950s Iran was stable, but the US and Britain executed a coup to overthrow their democratically elected leader because he wanted to crack down on a British oil company's tax evasion. They put a monarch in his place who was just a puppet. That should give you an idea about what the West really cares about.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:27
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enraged_camel posted:Stability is just an excuse. The powers that be want someone who will do as they say. Early 1950s Iran was stable, but the US and Britain executed a coup to overthrow their democratically elected leader because he wanted to crack down on a British oil company's tax evasion. They put a monarch in his place who was just a puppet. yeah i know. why cant we do assassinations for good causes for once.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:29
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:Aftermath of a Houthi ambush on Saudi forces: Sort of strange that a couple of armored hummers would be rolling around by themselves in a warzone.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:36
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Zeroisanumber posted:Sort of strange that a couple of armored hummers would be rolling around by themselves in a warzone. In case you hadn't noticed by now, Saudi Arabia is one of those countries that thinks having lots of expensive, high-tech equipment is far more important than having the ability to use it effectively.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:38
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Darth Walrus posted:In case you hadn't noticed by now, Saudi Arabia is one of those countries that thinks having lots of expensive, high-tech equipment is far more important than having the ability to use it effectively. I expect them to fight badly when engaged and use a bunch of stand-off weapons like bombs and artillery, not make elementary mistakes like sending light patrols out into areas that are thick with insurgents.
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Sep 27, 2015 00:41
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Did the saudis even have any past experience with war though? compared to a society like Yemen where they haven't had peace for maybe the past millennium. Edit: the video shows alot of armored vehicles, and at least one abrams wrecked. Also if anyone knows more how signficant is saleh's army? they probably also have some experience fighting their former enemies 
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Sep 27, 2015 01:26
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Fizzil posted:Did the saudis even have any past experience with war though? compared to a society like Yemen where they haven't had peace for maybe the past millennium. I think the Saudis don't have much experience fighting. They fought the houthis before around 2009-2010 and got their asses kicked. They fought the Iraqis in the gulf war and had to be bailed out by the Americans. From what I understand the Saudi military is designed more for shooting protestors and preventing coups than for fighting enemies outside their own borders. They have tons of oil money to buy fancy hardware but they aren't very well trained and logistics and maintenance of the hardware they have is an afterthought.
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Sep 27, 2015 02:39
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Charliegrs posted:I think the Saudis don't have much experience fighting. They fought the houthis before around 2009-2010 and got their asses kicked. They fought the Iraqis in the gulf war and had to be bailed out by the Americans. From what I understand the Saudi military is designed more for shooting protestors and preventing coups than for fighting enemies outside their own borders. They have tons of oil money to buy fancy hardware but they aren't very well trained and logistics and maintenance of the hardware they have is an afterthought. so they are basically the middle eastern military equivalent of china. why dont they just hire mercenaries since they have so much money.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:05
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I am sad that he and his family wont be brutally killed. he and his family are monsters who have brought about the deaths of thousands of people. A dark part of me wants ISIS to catch the fucker and butcher him on camera. Yeah i sound like an edgy rear end in a top hat about this. But i am loving sick of monster getting away with killing tons of people because we need to have "stability" what "stability"? syria as a country barely loving exists anymore its a quagmire of death now. this poo poo genuinely upsets me. I think assad is a tough motherfucker who stuck it out when other dictators woulda left. Not like the FSA was looking after religious minorities anyway. It's not like barrel bombing is much different from drone striking weddings anyway. Heh, your explosive must cost this much to not be a warcrime.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:19
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Panzeh posted:I think assad is a tough motherfucker who stuck it out when other dictators woulda left. Not like the FSA was looking after religious minorities anyway. Yes we deliberately target those weddings its exactly the same as Assad deliberately targeting bread lines and hospitals... And of course Assad is going to stick it out. He saw Mubarak end up in jail, and Ghaddafi murdered in the street. He didn't want to end up like that even if it means the complete destruction of his country. If he really cared about his country he would have stepped down in 2011 when hundreds of thousands were protesting. Even if someone from his regime had taken over it would have probably still averted a civil war.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:16
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Zeroisanumber posted:I expect them to fight badly when engaged and use a bunch of stand-off weapons like bombs and artillery, not make elementary mistakes like sending light patrols out into areas that are thick with insurgents. This is Saudi Arabia we're talking about. I don't know how many Saudis you've met but they are the most pampered, spoiled metrosexuals on earth and while they may have fabulous outfits and intricately manicured nails, their society isn't exactly geared towards the meritocracy required to create effective soldiers, officers, or a chain of command.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:08
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Second killed Saudi General in the war so far: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/27/saudi-general-killed-on-yemen-border-while-defending-country-army-says Kinda wondering what these generals are doing to manage to get lit up by small arms(?).
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Sep 27, 2015 08:02
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so they are basically the middle eastern military equivalent of china. why dont they just hire mercenaries since they have so much money. They are a middle eastern military equivalent of a middle eastern military. These dudes make Abrams tanks look like first generation T72s.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:34
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Pimpmust posted:Second killed Saudi General in the war so far: Probably read too many books about Patton.
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Sep 27, 2015 09:39
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Pimpmust posted:Second killed Saudi General in the war so far:
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Sep 27, 2015 09:44
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Charliegrs posted:I think the Saudis don't have much experience fighting. They fought the houthis before around 2009-2010 and got their asses kicked. They fought the Iraqis in the gulf war and had to be bailed out by the Americans. From what I understand the Saudi military is designed more for shooting protestors and preventing coups than for fighting enemies outside their own borders. They have tons of oil money to buy fancy hardware but they aren't very well trained and logistics and maintenance of the hardware they have is an afterthought. I don't get this though, if you have billions and billions to spend on hardware, why wouldn't you spend a million or two and hire someone to show you how to use them effectively, handle the logistics, train the personnel, etc. are they afraid if the army gets too competent they will perform a coup? Because you don't really need much of a competence for that to happen, see Africa or closer by Egypt (which you know is still mostly Africa but you get my drift).
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Sep 27, 2015 09:46
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DarkCrawler posted:I don't get this though, if you have billions and billions to spend on hardware, why wouldn't you spend a million or two and hire someone to show you how to use them effectively, handle the logistics, train the personnel, etc. are they afraid if the army gets too competent they will performa coup? Because you don't really need much of a competence for that the happen, see Africa or closer by Egypt (which you know is still mostly Africa but you get my drift). The UK has had multiple training and arms supply contracts with the Saudi's, dunno what sort of ranks they involved though.
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Sep 27, 2015 09:48
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Fizzil posted:Did the saudis even have any past experience with war though? compared to a society like Yemen where they haven't had peace for maybe the past millennium. Someone post that picture of a Saudi sniper with the scope mounted backward on his rifle.
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Sep 27, 2015 09:48
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As terrible as the Saudis are I don't see many other armed forces just roll over the Houthis who in addition to the usual insurgent IED's have modern anti-tank missiles, T80 tanks and even ballistic missiles.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:01
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CeeJee posted:As terrible as the Saudis are I don't see many other armed forces just roll over the Houthis who in addition to the usual insurgent IED's have modern anti-tank missiles, T80 tanks and even ballistic missiles. I see many armies with equivalent hardware doing that, at least in the conventional war part, insurgencies are another thing.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:12
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DarkCrawler posted:I don't get this though, if you have billions and billions to spend on hardware, why wouldn't you spend a million or two and hire someone to show you how to use them effectively, handle the logistics, train the personnel, etc. are they afraid if the army gets too competent they will perform a coup? Because you don't really need much of a competence for that to happen, see Africa or closer by Egypt (which you know is still mostly Africa but you get my drift). Because Saudi Arabia is what happens / would happen if you gave the Duck Dynasty people absolute political power backed by infinite oil money, and with it officer positions to distribute to their friends and family as they please icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 10:28
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On the topic of Arabs and war, I read this opinion piece recently: http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars It's quite old now (published in 1999), but is it still relevant? Any opinions on it? I don't really know much about the subject, but I found it quite interesting to read.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:57
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WoodrowSkillson posted:i know it will probably end up being used against the revolutionaries as well, but good, gently caress isis. i do not see how the revolution could have actually won once isis joined the fight. i hope they can negotiate SOMETHING. Honestly I hope Russia organizes a coup against him and replaces him with a more pliant leader like they did in Afghanistan. His government is so dependent on them at this point that he'd probably be extremely vulnerable to it if they did try and oust him. Charliegrs posted:And of course Assad is going to stick it out. He saw Mubarak end up in jail, and Ghaddafi murdered in the street. He didn't want to end up like that even if it means the complete destruction of his country. If he really cared about his country he would have stepped down in 2011 when hundreds of thousands were protesting. Even if someone from his regime had taken over it would have probably still averted a civil war. There's likely numerous places he could have bailed out to with a golden parachute like the Tunisian dictator did. He presumably wants to cling to power, not personal safety. Sucrose fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 11:07
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He could even have done like the King of Jordan did, throw some breadcrumbs as a compromise and stay in power. Instead he went full on MUST CRUSH DISSENTERS and everything that happened next in Syria can be blamed on him for that.
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Sep 27, 2015 11:32
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I wonder how much hand the Alawite establishment had in things too. Minority rule doesn't give you much room to maneuver.
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Sep 27, 2015 11:42
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Apoffys posted:On the topic of Arabs and war, I read this opinion piece recently: It could just as well be titled "why dictatorships lose wars" but yes, it's probably still relevant (Iraqs "new westernized" army sure doesn't seem to be much of an improvement).
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Sep 27, 2015 12:31
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Some dictatorships are pretty good at wars though.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:33
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Got any examples? Drawing blanks on "victorious-in-an-actual-war" dictatorships lately. ...(North) Vietnam? Depending on if you class that as a dictatorship or not (South Vietnam, not so good). I mean, maybe if they inherited a good professional officer corps and weapons industry they can do OK for awhile (see Germany), but eventually you end up with a bunch of personal fiefdoms and armies wasting resources and doing dumb poo poo.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:38
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