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Neddy Seagoon posted:There's also actually a flub. Daleks have said "Mercy" before, to River Song in The Big Bang. But time travel, Doctor Who, etc, etc. It's the first time the Doctor heard it. It's not a flub per se, as Sing's Dalek has always had that mercy dna just we didn't know about it.
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Sep 27, 2015 18:47
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happyhippy posted:It's the first time the Doctor heard it. It's not a flub per se, as Sing's Dalek has always had that mercy dna just we didn't know about it. Hence "Doctor Who, time travel, etc, etc"  .
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Sep 27, 2015 18:52
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Burkion posted:No you're not. Those that do are just louder FTFY. For pretty much every episode, maybe "Day of the Doctor" aside, the people who like a given episode each pop in with one post along the lines of "hey, that was a good episode." Meanwhile those who didn't like it post over and over again about why it was the worst thing ever, this episode sucks, this is the doom of Who, etc. etc, etc. It's always easier to inspire dislike than appreciation, I suppose. 
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Sep 27, 2015 19:08
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people are talking about different elements of the most recent episodes they liked or disliked. it's sort of the point of the thread. you can participate or ignore it.
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Sep 27, 2015 19:14
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jng2058 posted:FTFY. This is pedantic as gently caress, but you didn't fix anything. You just said what I said with more words. And as a wordy motherfucker, that's not a good thing.
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Sep 27, 2015 19:20
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I liked the Chair gag, "OK. THAT - IS - A - BIT - WIERD" and Missy being a prick to Clara. As an actual who episode, though, it's a solid meh. ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 19:22
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I thought this was one of the most gripping episodes since Flatline. All the Doctor/Davros scenes were gold.
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Sep 27, 2015 19:30
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Burkion posted:This is pedantic as gently caress, but you didn't fix anything. And I appreciate your confirming my point vis a vis complaining. Good job!
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Sep 27, 2015 19:42
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I've been thinking lately whether it's possible Moffat is staying on at least partly because the BBC don't have confidence in anyone else and will try to finish the show if he leaves? I'm pretty sure somebody mentions several threads ago that this was mooted when RTD and Tennant both announced they were going to step down, and Davies had to persuade them to let it continue with Moffat as showrunner. Was that true?
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Sep 27, 2015 19:42
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I love a lot of the ideas and scenes in this episode. The Doctor feeling he has to live up to the title, Davros being happy for him, Clara stuck inside the Dalek... But the biggest problem for me is Steven Moffat's approach to MOMENTS writing. It's all bigger moments that do not follow up on each other, his writing has to allow for the next big, gleeful thing to happen (the writing for gifs idea works for me here) and by not following on his big moments, they don't matter anymore. There's no big moment that he won't flip around or undo. I understand his idea: thanks to the Doctor's amazingness and time-travel, every single fault can be undone, every wrong can be righted but he creates a world where consequence is meaningless.
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Sep 27, 2015 19:48
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've been thinking lately whether it's possible Moffat is staying on at least partly because the BBC don't have confidence in anyone else and will try to finish the show if he leaves? I'm pretty sure somebody mentions several threads ago that this was mooted when RTD and Tennant both announced they were going to step down, and Davies had to persuade them to let it continue with Moffat as showrunner. Was that true? I haven't read The Writer's Tale in quite a while, but Doctor Who was printing money for the BBC in 2009-10. Moffat wasn't sure if he wanted to take over producing the show, but the BBC was going to find someone to do it. Edit: I think Joe Lidster, who was running The Sarah Jane Adventures at the time, was next in line in the event that Moffat declined. Timby fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 19:50
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've been thinking lately whether it's possible Moffat is staying on at least partly because the BBC don't have confidence in anyone else and will try to finish the show if he leaves? I'm pretty sure somebody mentions several threads ago that this was mooted when RTD and Tennant both announced they were going to step down, and Davies had to persuade them to let it continue with Moffat as showrunner. Was that true? It's not. The BBC wanted RTD to continue and were ready to throw more money at him but he felt it was time to go. For an instant, Tennant wobbled and almost stayed on for Moffat's 1st season (Smith's 1st meeting with Amelia Pond in 11th Hour would've been Tennant from the season finale, on the verge of regenerating) but decided against it after all.
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Sep 27, 2015 19:53
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Burkion posted:No you're not. Those that do are just louder at the moment. Burkion posted:This is pedantic as gently caress, but you didn't fix anything. Lol piss off. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, some people like it and some don't, don't dismiss people as being loud mouthy bastards just because you disagree with them. Maxwell Lord posted:But he did in fact write the scene where the Doctor admits that he's just an old man in a box, and the entire story's about the Doctor pushing himself to be compassionate and merciful in a situation where it's hard to be so. He spared Davros arbitrarily while killing a bunch of "less important" Daleks without a second thought in the most gruesome way imaginable, unleashing zombie daleks to eat them alive. curse of flubber fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 19:58
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Megaspel posted:He spared Davros arbitrarily while killing a bunch of "less important" Daleks without a second thought in the most gruesome way imaginable, unleashing zombie daleks to eat them alive. It was their decision to try and siphon off all his energy. Young Davros, however, had no such malice when he ended up in the middle of a handmine field. It's consistent with his ethical pattern. He gives people chances.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:01
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Maxwell Lord posted:It was their decision to try and siphon off all his energy. Young Davros, however, had no such malice when he ended up in the middle of a handmine field. He made the choice to give them the energy, knowing it would unleash a zombie horde. Is the Doctor the Judge and Executioner suddenly?
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Sep 27, 2015 20:03
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He wanted to help Davros. Also, has the Doctor ever had an issue with killing Daleks?
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Sep 27, 2015 20:12
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Megaspel posted:Lol piss off. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, some people like it and some don't, don't dismiss people as being loud mouthy bastards just because you disagree with them. You do realize that's not what I was doing or conveying right? The first thing I said was meant to be more neutral. Lots of people said they liked the episode, then a few others came in and started critiquing the episode as is their wont. The people who said they liked it generally just did only that, while the people who complained posted a lot more. Which is why I said the people complaining were simply louder at the moment- as I am one of those people complaining, I don't think I was being at all dismissive about them. At least I'd like to think so! And *I* am the mouthy bastard in the context of what you're quoting. Specifically I was referring to myself as the wordy motherfucker, because normally my posts look like...This. I was just pointing out that he pretty much said the same thing I did, but with more words. I think you read way more malice in what I said then I could ever care to intend. People can like or dislike the episode all they want, that's fine.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:32
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Megaspel posted:He made the choice to give them the energy, knowing it would unleash a zombie horde. Is the Doctor the Judge and Executioner suddenly? He didn't know for sure they were going to steal the energy until they did it.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:33
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Megaspel posted:He made the choice to give them the energy, knowing it would unleash a zombie horde. Is the Doctor the Judge and Executioner suddenly? He was going to give them a little flare. They chose to take a whole lot more.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:36
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These two episodes were better than any of last season. First time I've been entertained since Smith left. What the gently caress got into the writing team last season. It was so awful I felt like I was back in the RTD era!.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:37
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cargohills posted:He wanted to help Davros. Also, has the Doctor ever had an issue with killing Daleks? Yes, with the fourth doctor.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:38
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Regarde Aduck posted:These two episodes were better than any of last season. First time I've been entertained since Smith left. What the gently caress got into the writing team last season. It was so awful I felt like I was back in the RTD era!. Last series was uneven...but I don't think these episodes were as good as say, Flatline or Mummy. And certainly nowhere as bad as the Forest episode; I guess I'm just not that overwhelmed with these two. 
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Sep 27, 2015 20:44
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ImpulseDrive posted:Yes, with the fourth doctor. Since then he's been pretty liberal with killing them.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:46
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So am I the only one who watched this and immediately started thinking of it as Doctor Who: The Killing Joke? Anyway, I liked most aspects of this episode, but you can kind of see where it was straining at the seams. The plot was paper-thin and seemed only to exist to give the characters excuses to be in the same room with each other. Which is how stories should work, so good.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:48
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Burkion posted:You do realize that's not what I was doing or conveying right? Technically, what you said was: Burkion posted:No you're not. Those that do are just louder at the moment. Emphasis mine. I was expanding on this point to note that it's not just a momentary thing related to this episode. That, in fact, people complaining happens more often on virtually every episode, regardless of quality. To which you replied by being a dick.  But hey, that's your right. Just as it's mine to comment about you being a dick. It all works out.
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Sep 27, 2015 20:56
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I liked it. I bet Toxx gives it an A.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:05
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Maxwell Lord posted:I mean, sure, it'd be fine for the showrunners not to think "we can do no wrong, the audience will follow us anywhere." But I'm thinking more of the kind of clumsy top-down interference that gave us Galactica 1980, Buck Rogers Season 2, and Community Season 4. Except the Doctor didn't get put into a trap and clever his way out by the skin of his teeth, the Doctor put him self there and smugged his way out with a series of Deus Ex Machinas. Literally nothing that happened over the past 2 episodes meant anything. And the Doctor left Clara on Skaro.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:25
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Mr Beens posted:And the Doctor left Clara on Skaro. Nah, he just went for coffee.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:27
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Megaspel posted:He made the choice to give them the energy, knowing it would unleash a zombie horde. Is the Doctor the Judge and Executioner suddenly? Why did he touch the cables instead of just poking Davros with his magical healing hand or whatever?
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Sep 27, 2015 21:43
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I like Daleks screeching "Have pity!" (like in "Dalek") over "Mercy!". The first one still has the air of command over it.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:47
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Plus it's cool because "have pity" is what Davros said to the Doctor in that one episode where the Doctor blew up Skaro.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:51
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Oh, and it's what Davros said to the Daleks in Genesis! Good point.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:53
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Kikka posted:I like Daleks screeching "Have pity!" (like in "Dalek") over "Mercy!". The first one still has the air of command over it. It plays into who they are as characters. The Dalek that said Have pity knew he was drat near dead anyways, and that the Doctor would very, VERY happily kill him. So he lied his rear end off, as he did again with Rose until he got what he needed. The Dalek begging River for Mercy is just stupid and reeks of pet character status for River. But whatever. I really miss Daleks being actual characters. For a little while there, I thought we were going to get back to that version of the Daleks, where they would make alliances with other races and team up and have characters and not just be generically roboticly evil all the time. And then they just kinda went into flux as Moffat tried to reinvent them left and right and I don't think they've been the same in any single appearance after Victory. They keep wildly changing how they operate and who they are, often not for the better.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:55
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I prefer the episode where the Daleks screamed "HAVE MERCY" and then they played that song they wrote with The Beach Boys at the juice bar
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Sep 27, 2015 21:56
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2house2fly posted:Plus it's cool because "have pity" is what Davros said to the Doctor in that one episode where the Doctor blew up Skaro. The Doctor's plan here is actually really similar to what he did in Remembrance with the Hand of Omega, just let Davros go through with his scheme until it blows up in his face.
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Sep 27, 2015 21:59
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This was a good episode and it redeemed the previous one too, a bit. I believe Davros was being genuine with the Doctor, up until he pulled the "I want to see the sunrise" bit. A villain can still be a total dick while having genuine emotion, and this point was driven home with the last scene with kid-Davros. He isn't perfect, but he does have the capacity for mercy. Is this Emmy-winning drama? No. Doctor Who never will be. But it's good at what it sets out to do. Also, gently caress you, I like the sonic shades.
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Sep 27, 2015 22:07
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HD DAD posted:Also, gently caress you, I like the sonic shades. I like them too. gently caress you to any and all goons who don't. Less sonic screw driver waving around ala 10 and 11 and more sonic shades. 
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Sep 27, 2015 22:21
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Attitude Indicator posted:people are talking about different elements of the most recent episodes they liked or disliked. it's sort of the point of the thread. you can participate or ignore it. Yeah, very few people come in making blanket statements about the quality of the episode - most people say"I liked this part, didn't like this part, LOATHED this part, LOVED this part" etc, and as a whole some liked the episode more than they disliked it, and others disliked it more than they liked it. That's good, because it generally kicks off good discussion about the merits or otherwise of the episode, of particular scenes, of what they might mean etc. It's very difficult to have any kind of meaningful discussion if somebody just says,"I loved it, it was perfect!" or,"I hated it, it was literally poo poo smeared on paper". I know I say it a lot, but I'm still amused whenever somebody complains about the thread having any kind of "hivemind/consensus", and I really dig that our Doctor Who threads generally include a lot of reasoned discussion of the show regardless of whether we overall liked or disliked any particular episode. I dug this episode, but it had a number of problems, and even some of the good stuff was problematic (The Master and Clara had great chemistry, but Clara took far too eagerly to the role of the Master's companion), and as the second part of a 2-parter it did have that unusual element of feeling mostly disconnected from the first part.
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Sep 27, 2015 22:25
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Timby posted:Edit: I think Joe Lidster, who was running The Sarah Jane Adventures at the time, was next in line in the event that Moffat declined. 
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Sep 27, 2015 22:31
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Timby posted:Edit: I think Joe Lidster, who was running The Sarah Jane Adventures at the time, was next in line in the event that Moffat declined. Jesus Christ  I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, RTD really dug Lidster's work, didn't he? I guess the big difference is that apparently RTD does think the world is kinda cruel and unfair but produced Who to show somebody rising up above that and setting things to rights, while Lidster seems to enjoy wallowing in,"AND THEN EVERYBODY GOT MURDERED AND NOBODY COULD DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT AHAHAHAHA!"
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Sep 27, 2015 22:39
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