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Anyone remembers that stupid as poo poo Bibi sitter campaign ad from the elections? Well...  Courtesy of Amir Shciby who's pretty much the funniest Israeli facebook leftist meme creating guy person.
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Oct 8, 2015 10:45
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How many Israeli soldiers armed with assault rifles does it take to violently arrest a 12-year-old and rough up an innocent shopkeeper in a candy store? Eight, apparently. https://t.co/UiMSCqJsXC
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Oct 8, 2015 13:33
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If anyone neeeds to convince anybody that the IDF doesn't give a poo poo about protecting Palestinians from settler violence and that it in fact helps the settlers to brutalize palestinians here are some good videos captured by B'Tselem volunteers: http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20151008_soldiers_provide_security_to_vigilante_settlers
emanresu tnuocca fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 17:12
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Anyone remembers that stupid as poo poo Bibi sitter campaign ad from the elections? He never got called out for defying that law in israel that makes it illegal to utilize children/babies in political ads either did he? Probably not, just like how his dog-faced wife isn't going to have anything happen to her for abusing and insulting her staff.
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Oct 8, 2015 17:57
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emanresu tnuocca posted:If anyone neeeds to convince anybody that the IDF doesn't give a poo poo about protecting Palestinians from settler violence and that it in facts helps the settlers to brutalize palestinians here are some good videos captured by B'Tselem volunteers: http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20151008_soldiers_provide_security_to_vigilante_settlers I try not to watch recordings of literal police brutality, but can I assume that link is exactly what is implied? Ultramega posted:He never got called out for defying that law in israel that makes it illegal to utilize children/babies in political ads either did he? Probably not, just like how his dog-faced wife isn't going to have anything happen to her for abusing and insulting her staff. Have you watched the ad? There are no children in it. It's just Bibi showing up and saying "need a Bibi-sitter" and then a cut to the parents coming home later to see him eating popcorn out of that ridiculous bowl on the couch.
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Oct 8, 2015 20:08
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Kajeesus posted:I try not to watch recordings of literal police brutality, but can I assume that link is exactly what is implied? Yeah, and he's sitting on the couch watching his previous ad, which did include children, in violation of Israeli election law: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRWFVE2RRq4
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Oct 8, 2015 20:14
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Oh, nevermind. Yeah, that's slimy.
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Oct 8, 2015 20:23
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poo poo keeps hitting the fan btw. Jewish lynch mobs attacked several palestinian in the past 48 hours, just to clarify that these are palestinians who are Israeli citizens who are getting attacked, one of the victims of such a lynch was a news reporter who was covering one of the knife attacks in Afula where him and his team were attacked by a kahanist mob while they were recording the item, there have been something like 8 attacks by Palestinians against Israeli civilians all over the place the past two days and there's a bit of a pattern developing, it seems most attackers just try to stab a person or two and then attempt to flee the scene, in a minority of the cases they get apprehended or 'neutralized' (meaning, the get shot, but not fatally) by armed bystanders but it seems like summary executions have become the go to method in these cases. And in northern Gaza palestinians marched towards the border barrier near Kibbutz Nahal Oz, they were reportedly mowed down with automatic fire by the soldiers guarding the barrier, at least four casualties. Please let me know when we can say Intifada, or when we come up with a new term for this thing.
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Oct 9, 2015 14:21
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cool new civil war
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Oct 9, 2015 14:34
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Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people?
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Oct 9, 2015 14:44
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fits my needs posted:Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people? It's been proven multiple times that they don't.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:02
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fits my needs posted:Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people? Israeli leaders tend to call them crocodiles, cockroaches and beasts with two legs so...
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Oct 9, 2015 15:03
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fits my needs posted:Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people? "Israelis" is a pretty broad demographic. Do Americans consider Muslims to be people?
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Oct 9, 2015 15:05
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fits my needs posted:Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people? Israeli stance is that it is antisemitic to imply that Palestinians could actually be people. There, found the post I was looking for. Absurd Alhazred posted:There's Mondoweiss's take, but let me reprint the paywalled Haaretz story, too: I've bolded and underlined the part that's relevant to your question. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 15:11
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Israeli police(?) gun down Palestinian woman at a bus station: https://twitter.com/Israelcohen911/status/652459756603506688/video/1 Second angle: https://www.facebook.com/ShehabAgency.MainPage/videos/1204360099606408/   , obviously.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:19
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They were off duty soldiers, apparently, and the woman is alive suffering medium injures (apparently shot in the legs and in her lower abdomen a bunch of times). I still don't understand why she didn't just loving drop the knife as she was told about a thousand times in the video but on the other hand I also don't understand how something like 10 armed men can't figure out a way to grab the knife without shooting her 5 times, what more she seems to be completely 'neutralized' after the first shot, i really don't understand why they kept firing. Nobody will get punished for this btw, they are likely to receive commendations for their quick thinking and valor. idiocy.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:25
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Nobody will get punished for this btw, they are likely to receive commendations for their quick thinking and valor. idiocy. The leadership commended the point-blank of a boy by Israeli spies and instigators of violence. This must be worthy the equivalent of a medal of honour.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:27
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emanresu tnuocca posted:They were off duty soldiers, apparently, and the woman is alive suffering medium injures (apparently shot in the legs and in her lower abdomen a bunch of times). Are you stupid? You don't try to grab someone who has a knife. That's a good way to get hosed up. I don't see how you can possibly blame this on the people who shot her when she's the one that instigated the entire situation.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:32
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fits my needs posted:Do Israelis even consider Palestinians to be people? Some do, some don't. What a dumb question. And no, I'm not going to go easy on you for this (unlike many other people in this thread, I'm sure) - I'm going to try to treat you pretty much exactly as badly as I would anyone who asks the question "Do Palestinians even consider Jews to be people?" because frankly I'm sick of that dumb "rah rah they're all evil monsters" poo poo cropping up from either side, typically followed by one-sided echo chamber wankfests that completely derail the already-rare-enough in-depth discussions and analysises of current events.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:35
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-Troika- posted:Are you stupid? You don't try to grab someone who has a knife. That's a good way to get hosed up. I don't see how you can possibly blame this on the people who shot her when she's the one that instigated the entire situation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cznNf2LUk74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw XMNN fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 15:36
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You loving kick her in the leg, throw something at her. They're trained soldiers with assault rifles, she was just standing there, she didn't drop the knife which was stupid but she wasn't making a movement going anywhere, shooting her is absolutely not acceptable, and even if we accept that one single neutralizing shot might have been necessary, it should have stopped there. You seem confused about the responsibilities of civilians and law enforcement personnel dealing with armed assailants, they are not expected to put themselves into harm's way but they can't just go around shooting people willy nilly... I'm pretty sure there were major protests about similar things that happened in the united states recently? Did you also support the officers in those cases, I mean... they were feeling threatened so why not. A single woman with a knife, should be easily neutralized without resorting to live munitions, but I guess that's a stupid thing to say... expecting restraint and professionalism from trained soldiers lol. so stupid.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:38
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-Troika- posted:Are you stupid? You don't try to grab someone who has a knife. That's a good way to get hosed up. I don't see how you can possibly blame this on the people who shot her when she's the one that instigated the entire situation. What would it take for you, forums poster -Troika-, to blame an IDF soldier? You've previously claimed that "free Palestine" is an anti-Semitic codeword for "Jew genocide." Can you think of any specific incident in which you would personally hold that IDF troops opening fire on Palestinian civilians was not the fault of the civilians?
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Oct 9, 2015 15:40
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Like, if she was lunging at them and they don't want to risk getting stabbed, fair enough, it's probably justifiable shooting her, but as far as I can tell she was literally just standing there holding it.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:40
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In the latest political foible, Netanyahu banned Jewish members of the Knesset from visiting the Temple Mount in order to prevent the right-wing troublemakers from further inciting the situation, on the advice of his security advisers. Naturally, his right-wing rivals flipped out that he was only restricting Jews, so he "clarified" that the ban also applied to non-Jewish MKs. Except now the right is accusing him of flip-flopping, while the left is criticizing him and the Arab MKs are openly defying him; MK Zoabi called him a fascist and visited the Temple Mount anyway. Also, restrictions on Palestinian access to the Old City have apparently been lifted, but the previously-lifted restrictions on Muslim access to al-Aqsa have been reinstated. It's getting downright depressing watching Netanyahu flail helplessly around, caught between the need for an actually effective response and the fact that political enemies on both sides try to crucify him every time he attempts to de-escalate. With the intense fragility of his coalition, the slightest misstep doesn't just bring him down, it could tank the current government as well, and this is absolutely not the time to be holding elections. In other news, Israeli authorities have called on YouTube and Facebook to remove inflammatory videos calling for the killing of "Zionists" (yes, that is the exact word used in the article) and other calls for Palestinian violence. Meanwhile, Israeli police allowed several hundred Lehava members to march to the Western Wall while chanting "Death to Arabs" and throwing stones at police and security personnel.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:02
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Main Paineframe posted:Meanwhile, Israeli police allowed several hundred Lehava members to march to the Western Wall while chanting "Death to Arabs" and throwing stones at police and security personnel. Please Obama, just finally snap and nuke the loving region. You'd be doing the whole world a favor.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:36
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emanresu tnuocca posted:And in northern Gaza palestinians marched towards the border barrier near Kibbutz Nahal Oz, they were reportedly mowed down with automatic fire by the soldiers guarding the barrier, at least four casualties. Five dead, fourteen wounded. quote:Five Palestinians who were part of a large group of rioters that approached the Gaza border with Israel were shot and killed by IDF soldiers on Friday, Palestinian medical sources said. I know that the Geneva Convention does not remove 'civilian' status from settlers despite their direct complicity in the violation of Article 49, but it is difficult to fully condemn efforts of resistance, misguided and unproductive as they may be. If I'd watched the lands and livelihoods of my community be stolen out from under us by armed invaders that despise us, I'd feel pretty drat compelled to do something. Sadly, there is little constructive outlet for that entirely justifiable anger.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:44
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Please Obama, just finally snap and nuke the loving region. You'd be doing the whole world a favor. Vote for Trump and pray
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Oct 9, 2015 16:52
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Cugel the Clever posted:It's poo poo like this that leave me not particularly sympathetic to the settlers murdered in the West Bank. If the PA tried to assert itself at the Green Line and respond like this to the entry of illegal settlers, the IDF would view it as an act of war (of course, the PA and Abbas don't want to rock the boat so they'd never do such a thing). The PA is free to declare war using that as a causus belli if they so wish. They won't, because Abbas is anti-war and the IDF outguns the PA to a hilarious degree, but such a situation on the ground would certainly lead to at least a temporary withdrawal of settlements since many of them are so intermingled with Palestinian territory that they're practically indefensible. Honestly, rather than Palestinian civil disorder, I'm more worried about what's going on inside Israel's borders. The government is really paying for its policy of turning a blind eye to Jewish extremism for so long - Arabs are straight-up being lynched in the loving streets, and while the police are intervening on the side of the victims, I'm worried that both the security and political arms of the government have been focused on outside violence for so long that they're not capable of meaningfully addressing civil disorder of this degree inside their own borders. The relationship between Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs has never really been great, but it's usually not this openly violent; the sheer nastiness of the situation has me wondering if we aren't a dropped match away from literal pogroms against Arabs. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4708905,00.html (I also recommend reading the comments, for a glimpse into how people rationalize and justify these attacks) quote:A Jewish Israeli with a psychiatric history was arrested in Dimona Friday morning after four Bedouins were stabbed in what initial investigations labeled a nationalistically motivated attack.
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Oct 9, 2015 17:41
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It's interesting that they call the motive "nationalistic" and not, I dunno, racist. Sure, nationalism and racism go hand in hand, but calling a racist attack a nationalistic one is a clear admittance that Arabs will always be foreigners in Israel.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:08
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So I haven't followed this thread in about a year or so (the war in Gaza had me at a breaking point, depression wise), and I think I'm ok enough to jump back in. Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of the current situation? From what I've gleaned, we've had a shitload of stabbing a between settlers and Palestinians in the past few days and the IDF is shooting protesters?
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Oct 9, 2015 18:31
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Thump! posted:So I haven't followed this thread in about a year or so (the war in Gaza had me at a breaking point, depression wise), and I think I'm ok enough to jump back in. Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of the current situation? Netanyahu, having learned nothing from Ariel, tried to earn easy PR points by effectively banning muslims from Al-Aqsa. Around the same time settlers started stepping up their pricetag attacks, culminating in a highly publicized burning of a palestinian home (with the family inside). This, on top of always-increasing resentment towards Abba's Eternal Rule and poor conditions within the Gaza Strip has brought us tobthe tipping point of a third Intifada (uprising of palestinian citizens). Just like Defensive Edge, Netanyahu has also gained basically nothing PR-wise from this. So yeah, basically no reason for any of this to happen beyond raw hate.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:49
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https://www.facebook.com/channel10news/videos/10153633737878794/ That's the video of the incident in the Afula central bus station earlier today which we've discussed in the thread, I think it's higher quality than the vids previously posted itt. Though the view is obscured there doesn't seem to be any immediate change in the situation when the Border Patrol idiot decides it's time to start spraying bullets, the two police officers were clearly moving in to disarm the situation and the woman doesn't magically become more of a threat once that happens, it doesn't seem like she's moving forward. From what I understand, she drew the knife and moved to stab someone, then either freaked out or was spotted by the Border Patrol soldier standing next to her, at that point it seems like she mostly panics and has no idea what to do next though it should be noted that she is still holding the knife with a stabbing grip and waves it around, I see no cause to shoot her at any point during the standoff. Unless something happens at the instant she's obscured by the border patrol soldier and the two police officers I'd say that the border patrol dude has committed an obvious felony, it would seem that he actually wanted to shoot her and was seizing the opportunity before she was disarmed by the police officers who actually looked like they knew what they were doing. And also loving lol at the Border Patrol girl in the foreground dropping her magazines on the ground and the police officer dropping his pistol as he's moving in on the scene. Guess this kinda poo poo happens when you let brainwashed children play with guns.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:05
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-Troika- posted:Are you stupid? You don't try to grab someone who has a knife. That's a good way to get hosed up. I don't see how you can possibly blame this on the people who shot her when she's the one that instigated the entire situation. If you have shank-proof armour, there are 10 of you, and you're trained properly (i.e. not by a mouthbreathing idiot), it's really loving easy to overpower someone with a knife safely without resorting to a salvo of bullets.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:15
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Cat Mattress posted:It's interesting that they call the motive "nationalistic" and not, I dunno, racist. Sure, nationalism and racism go hand in hand, but calling a racist attack a nationalistic one is a clear admittance that Arabs will always be foreigners in Israel. Jewish nation. Israeli nationality doesn't exist, according to the state they are second class citizens in multiple laws, the state has always clearly admitted it.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:35
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Main Paineframe posted:Some do, some don't. What a dumb question. It is good to know that the truth is in the middle.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:42
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Neurolimal posted:Netanyahu, having learned nothing from Ariel, tried to earn easy PR points by effectively banning muslims from Al-Aqsa. Around the same time settlers started stepping up their pricetag attacks, culminating in a highly publicized burning of a palestinian home (with the family inside). This, on top of always-increasing resentment towards Abba's Eternal Rule and poor conditions within the Gaza Strip has brought us tobthe tipping point of a third Intifada (uprising of palestinian citizens). So same poo poo different year then, eh? 
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Oct 9, 2015 19:53
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Thump! posted:So I haven't followed this thread in about a year or so (the war in Gaza had me at a breaking point, depression wise), and I think I'm ok enough to jump back in. Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of the current situation? Over the past year, Palestinians have largely perceived the international community and the PA as being uninterested in or incapable of bringing a peaceful solution, partially due to the total failure to rebuild Gaza following last year's war. Abbas has made some strides toward recognition in the UN, but these are not widely seen as helpful or staus-quo-changing, and the new Israeli government elected in March is right-wing and hostile to both Palestinian and American pressure. Terrorism by Israeli settlers has also ramped up significantly, including a major arson attack in early summer that killed an entire Palestinian family, including a toddler. Police efforts against Jewish terrorism, previously basically nonexistent, appear to have stepped up after that, but no one has yet been arrested for the crimes and the police are being accused of continuing to let off Jewish terrorists easy. Palestinians, no longer trusting security forces to keep them safe, have begun forming their own independent village watches, intended to detect and capture settler terrorists before they can strike. Also, while Palestinian protests are fairly common, and are often dispersed by IDF forces using riot tactics, the IDF has recently introduced a disturbing new riot control tactic: shooting protesters deemed to be "agitators" with live ammunition, the idea apparently being that snipers would shoot protest leaders in the legs and the crowd would scatter harmlessly while the leaders get carted off to the hospital and then jail. Right-wing extremist groups have also been causing trouble at the Temple Mount/al-Aqsa Mosque, a very holy site for both religions, where non-Muslim prayer is currently not allowed. Official Jewish authorities state the Temple Mount is so holy that no Jew should even enter (let alone pray there), but radical groups have been advocating full unrestricted Jewish prayer there, for nationalistic and messianic reasons. Radical Jewish and Muslim groups constantly accuse each other of wanting to destroy various historic relics and claim the site for their side exclusively, and this site is a flashpoint like no other in the I/P conflict - in fact, a visit by Ariel Sharon to the site was the trigger for the Second Intifada. The details of the arrangement and issues here really get even more complicated and tricky, but this is enough of an explanation in order to understand the tensions that led to current events. About a month ago, there was a significant increase in the number of Jewish tourists visiting the Temple Mount, particularly religious ones with somewhat radical views, due to a series of major Jewish holidays. Palestinians protesting the tourism were suppressed by the IDF, sometimes using live ammunition, and tensions escalated even further. Around the same time, there were a couple of terrorist attacks in the West Bank against settlers, including one in which a family with a young child in the car was stopped and the parents were killed (allegedly by Hamas operatives), leading to outrage in Israel and a dramatic upswing in settler terrorism against Palestinians. Citing security justifications, Netanyahu put heavy restrictions on Muslim visits to al-Aqsa, leading to further protests which continued to be met by live fire. Meanwhile, settler terrorism, mostly ignored by the IDF (and perceived by Palestinians as being actively supported by the IDF) has led to a number of clashes between Israelis and Palestinians. As violence further escalated, there was a stabbing or two in the Old City surrounding the Temple Mount, and Netanyahu put heavy security restrictions on Palestinian access to the Old City as well - a fairly unprecedented step that did not happen even during the Intifadas. This only stoked the conflict further, and although many of these security restrictions were rolled back several days later, the violence has continued. On top of that, an unarmed 13-year-old Palestinian boy was killed at a protest, hit in the chest by live bullets as the IDF fired into the crowd, a couple more Palestinian children have allegedly been injured or killed by settler attacks (though these reports are largely unconfirmed and sometimes dubious), and nearly a thousand Palestinians have been injured as protests are smashed by the IDF again and again. Over the past two weeks, there also have been a number of stabbing attacks, rock-throwing attacks, impromptu roadblocks by angry mobs, and outright lynchings, from both Israelis and Palestinians. Jewish terrorism, largely confined to the West Bank, has spread to inside Israel, and several Israeli Arabs have been injured by random attacks and lynch mobs over the past couple of days. On top of that, there has yet to be an effective political response to the violence. The Israeli government, while right-wing, is also very precarious. Netanyahu's coalition only has a one-vote majority, so while he seems to understand at some level that he needs to de-escalate things, he is unable to act decisively because he can't afford to piss off the far-right parties, and thus ends up doing things like pairing mild drawdowns in security restrictions with promises to engage in collective punishment against Palestinians in the Old City. His ineffectual flailing around serves mostly to signal weakness, and his political rivals are circling menacingly around him, with both the left and the right blaming him for everything and criticizing every aspect of his response. Meanwhile, the PA appears to be staying out of it for now and leaving the problem for Israel to deal with. Abbas is known to be against Palestinian violence, but the PA is also increasingly unpopular among Palestinians (many of whom see it as corrupt, ineffectual, or even a stooge for Israeli interests) and is not able to meaningfully combat Israeli violence from either settlers or soldiers, so intervening to suppress Palestinian protests is a risk that the PA is likely reluctant to take for fear that it might be targeted next. Without any effective intervention, the violence continues to escalate as reprisal after reprisal stirs both Jewish and Palestinian extremists to further heights. Where does it end? I don't know if there can be an end. Netanyahu himself seems aware of the need to appease Palestinians, but every time he tries to do something about it, right-wing MKs - even among his own party - accuse him of being soft and pro-Muslim and push for brutal crackdowns instead. Even if he manages to get away with calming down the Palestinians, it won't stick unless he can also end the violence on the settler side without setting off the Palestinians again, and that is a far more difficult problem for the current Israeli government. The Jewish extremists don't answer to anyone in the government, and Netanyahu's coalition isn't likely to support crackdowns on religious and nationalist extremists. The whole region is going to pay the price for not taming that tiger when things were relatively calm.
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Oct 9, 2015 20:19
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/hamas-leader-gaza-declares-intifada-deadly-attacks-continuequote:Hamas leader in Gaza declares intifada as deadly attacks continue
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Oct 9, 2015 20:20
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nopantsjack posted:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/09/hamas-leader-gaza-declares-intifada-deadly-attacks-continue
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Oct 9, 2015 20:51
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Another angle of the incident: https://www.facebook.com/ShehabAgency.MainPage/videos/1204360099606408/ She was actually backing off at the moment she's shot. I just read the incident report on YNet and it's weirder than I originally thought, allegedly she drew the knife and started verbally abusing and threatening a soldier, she didn't apparently try to stab him, attempted suicide by cop?
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Oct 9, 2015 20:58
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