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I have a Quickfire Rapid, and it's bottoming out loudly. Loudly click-ity clacking when typing. So I'll be adding o-rings to my Cherry MX keys. Does it matter what brand o-rings I buy, or all they all pretty much the same? Because I found one cheap brand, and a more expensive one. Just wasn't sure if there's any noticeable difference in cheap vs expensive o rings.
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Oct 11, 2015 21:48
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skylined! posted:You mentioned the K70 but not mechanical specifically. Logeitech's K800 is wireless, backlit and full size. I was using a K800, to replace my old diNovo Edge, and tbh I think the thing is a piece of poo poo in terms of build quality. I've never had something fall apart so quickly - logitech's never been that bad to me before but I'm looking for a new keyboard as an escape hatch. I hadn't considered dropping the "full sized" thing. I signed up for that website but am not entirely sure how it works - they'll email me if it comes back into stock? One of the things I do like about the K800 is that the keys are individually lit - it seems that gets the good (seeing your keys if you need to hunt and peck) without too much extra distracting light. Is the keyboard you ordered just back-lit from under all the keys at once? And yes, I am looking for mechanical - although I actually weirdly liked typing on my diNovo edge I feel if I'm gonna be dropping some cash on a keyboard I'd like one that's supposed to be superior for typing. I'd be typing way more than gaming, and I prefer to use my xbox controller when gaming if possible anyway, but I tried out the blue switches (which are supposed to be for typing mostly) and didn't like them - I preferred the feel of the black or the red, which I later read use a whole different style which is supposed to be better for gaming but worse for typing. So uh are there any "clicky" type switches that need more pressure than the brown? Brown felt like a step up from blue but I still think I prefer black, even though that's supposed to be for the hardcore gamer types, right? Anyway thanks for pointing me at a new possibility!
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Oct 11, 2015 22:21
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Digital Osmosis posted:I was using a K800, to replace my old diNovo Edge, and tbh I think the thing is a piece of poo poo in terms of build quality. I've never had something fall apart so quickly - logitech's never been that bad to me before but I'm looking for a new keyboard as an escape hatch. Linear switches being good for gaming is almost exclusively because of early SteelSeries marketing, when people didn't know switch types. It's just down to what you prefer.
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Oct 12, 2015 00:50
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A heads-up for any shoppers as far Massdrop goes - which is always worth a look anyway because there's always something interesting listed. Das 4 Professional with MX Browns https://www.massdrop.com/buy/das-keyboard-4-professional The drop price isn't that amazing ($150, down to $145 if they get enough buyers, plus P&H) but since this is what I use because like most people I had specific requirements as well as things I wasn't so worried about, I thought it worth mentioning. - Cherry MX Brown switches. - no blinkenlights aside from the lock indicators - big-rear end volume wheel - solid as gently caress - a standard keycap layout so and if you want to swap in a different set you won't run into too many issues that way. Unlike the Ultimate, this has legends including the media buttons (which aren't replaceable but they're unobtrusive), so either will do if you're just going to do that anyway. The supplied set look pretty nice, actually. It also has a couple of USB ports and NKRO or whatever if you need that. NB: I would not recommend the Das 4S (the TKL version) because apparently they use Greetech switches or something. WASD CODE keyboard https://www.massdrop.com/buy/code-keyboard-cherry-mx-blues This seems to be worth a look at too. Unfortunately the TKL version with Clears which might've been the most interesting option are spoken for already this time around. They still have Blues though if you don't care how much noise they make. A bit like popping bubble wrap really. Currently the drop is $125 + P&H with the possibility of a further drop to $115 - there's a week to go, although the option that might've tempted me (Fullsized with Clears) wasn't even a starter this time around. There's also a drop for the Unicomp one with Model M style  buckling springs, but with a day to go and only half the initial drop threshold reached that's pretty likely to fail.
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Oct 12, 2015 00:58
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Linear switches being good for gaming is almost exclusively because of early SteelSeries marketing, when people didn't know switch types. It's just down to what you prefer. Okay, how about the opposite - are linear switches actually bad for typing? Or do some typists just like that the blue ones sound like a typewriter?
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Oct 12, 2015 04:46
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melon cat posted:Does it matter what brand o-rings I buy, or all they all pretty much the same? Because I found one cheap brand, and a more expensive one. Just wasn't sure if there's any noticeable difference in cheap vs expensive o rings. The rosewill ones for $50 (!) CAD are being re-priced by an amazon gouger, if you want those get them from newegg. Those cheap ones should work fine, though they're 1.5mm diameter which is very thin. Thin rings are nice because they don't alter the key travel as much, but they don't have much dampening. So it'll just remove the edge off the clack. Also they might not last more than a couple years -- silicone rubber degrades over time and starts cracking from the surface. The thinness will make that split the rings faster. A more expensive o-ring that's possibly worth the extra bucks are the ones sold by WASD. They're made of a different material than cheap silicone rings that lasts longer.
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Oct 12, 2015 05:02
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Digital Osmosis posted:Okay, how about the opposite - are linear switches actually bad for typing? Or do some typists just like that the blue ones sound like a typewriter? Pretty much all of it is personal preference. I like the feel of blues a ton but dislike the sound. Some people like linear switches for typing because they prefer a smooth feel. The reason that switches with more tactile feedback are usually cited to be good for typing is that they help you type lightly without bottoming out all the time. That feels good and it's less tiring on the fingers. Forceful typing is a factor for RSI. Bottoming out hard means your finger is continuing to strain against something that's not moving. But it's way down the list after things like posture, wrist & forearm positioning, taking breaks, etc. Re: gaming, way back when mechs were less available, the main boards in circulation were linear reds, blacks, and the blues. Browns were not as common. Blues really do have drawbacks for gaming. The early gaming keyboards heavily advertised their "gamer switches" to distinguish themselves from other boards.
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Oct 12, 2015 05:18
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Klyith posted:Pretty much all of it is personal preference. I like the feel of blues a ton but dislike the sound. Some people like linear switches for typing because they prefer a smooth feel. Blues have a few drawbacks for gaming, but who do you know that's PrOsKiLlZ enough to care about a tiny bit of added hysteresis? Mechanical switches aren't as good for gaming, period, as scissor switches anyway - or lever switches, if you really want to be pedantic.
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Oct 12, 2015 06:04
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Blues have a few drawbacks for gaming, but who do you know that's PrOsKiLlZ enough to care about a tiny bit of added hysteresis? I'm not MLG pro gamer by any means but I easily found blues to be a major difficulty in some games and an annoyance in many others. It's all about how the slider doesn't return at the same point as it engages. When you are concentrating on the game you are paying more attention to the game feedback (character movement or whatever) than the kinesthetic feedback so you get tripped up. Any retro type platformer is totally hosed. Games with Batman-style combat are not quite unplayable but very annoying, as is any action game where you get a "mash a button" QTE. Games with driving* are pretty bad. And then you slide up into stuff like FPS where it's generally fine but you still run into issues occasionally, some more than others. *Obviously playing an actual car driving game with a keyboard is dumb, but open world game where you drive cars are normally fine with a keyboard.
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Oct 12, 2015 07:23
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Mechanical switches aren't as good for gaming, period, as scissor switches anyway - or lever switches, if you really want to be pedantic. wait what? every pro gamer in the world uses one, and afaik it was the gaming scene, and gaming companies which pushed mechanical into the mass market, not the corporate data entry/home user sector..?
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Oct 12, 2015 07:27
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Klyith posted:If you think that you either haven't tried, or only like the categories of games that are the least affected. When people say "blues are bad for gaming" they really mean action gaming. It is IMHO 100% true unless you either are so bad that the keyboard isn't holding you back, or you only like RPGs, strategy games, etc. I play Speedrunners, which is very fast-paced. Check out some videos of it sometime - it demands insane key work, since I don't play with a controller (nobody who's any good does). I'm Bronze ranked, and not nearly as good as the Silver/Gold/Platinums, but way better than most players. It's fact that a good scissor switch has a lower actuation threshold and lower hysteresis than any Cherry switch, though. I play with ALPS switches because they're plenty good enough. I also play Super Meat Boy and a bunch of other 2D platformers. LUBE UP YOUR BUTT posted:wait what? every pro gamer in the world uses one, and afaik it was the gaming scene, and gaming companies which pushed mechanical into the mass market, not the corporate data entry/home user sector..? They're sponsored by these companies, so of course they're going to use the flagship product. I'm not saying that mechs are bad for gaming, but rather that the difference between blues and blacks isn't as great as the difference between Cherry and scissor switches. Keep in mind that I grew up playing piano, which has obviously affected my finger sensitivity and dexterity. Still, the fact that I can play the games I play on a keyboard that's worse for gaming than Cherry blues means it is Not A Big Deal. SymmetryrtemmyS fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 07:43
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:They're sponsored by these companies, so of course they're going to use the flagship product. I'm not saying that mechs are bad for gaming, but rather that the difference between blues and blacks isn't as great as the difference between Cherry and scissor switches. yeah of course, but why would gaming companies even make a flagship product that isn't totally optimal for games is the thing. I'm sure its not entirely impossible to make some kind of proprietary scissor switch, slap a flashy name on it and sell it at a markup if they really wanted too, and if cherry switches were really suboptimal then whoever made a scissor as their flagship would actually be able to advertise it as the top gaming keyboard??
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Oct 12, 2015 08:27
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Greens are the best gaming switch. The springs could be a little heavier, though.
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Oct 12, 2015 08:35
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i only type on the finest vintage olivetti typewriter with a camera and OCR software set to translate the printed text to computer inputs
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Oct 12, 2015 08:38
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LUBE UP YOUR BUTT posted:yeah of course, but why would gaming companies even make a flagship product that isn't totally optimal for games is the thing. I'm sure its not entirely impossible to make some kind of proprietary scissor switch, slap a flashy name on it and sell it at a markup if they really wanted too, and if cherry switches were really suboptimal then whoever made a scissor as their flagship would actually be able to advertise it as the top gaming keyboard?? How are you going to market a scissor switch? It's not mechanical, it's the same old tech used in laptop keyboards. People will pay more for something they perceive as more valuable, and if that means that it's called mechanical and has features and options, so be it. Mechanical switches are also way more durable, which is a selling point, and have easily customizable keycaps - some brands even include other keycaps, like Corsair does for WASD1234 and a few others.
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Oct 12, 2015 09:08
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SymmetryrtemmyS posted:Still, the fact that I can play the games I play on a keyboard that's worse for gaming than Cherry blues means it is Not A Big Deal.  Nobody has ever said that scissor domes or an Apls was worse for games than cherry blues. I mean I think you are right that a lot of "high-performance gaming gear" has a ton of marketing bullshit in it, and for the majority of people a mechanical switch doesn't make them better at games. Same with expensive sports equipment. But in the specific case of cherry blues it's not marketing or the placebo effect, they really are detrimental to some games in an objectively mechanical way. VVVVV edit: and I say your point is wrong and that your use of ALPS is not an equivalent experience. Do you own a cherry blue keyboard? I do. I have played games with it. It is absolutely detrimental, for me, in both skill and enjoyment. Klyith fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 09:17
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Klyith posted:
Look, my point was that while Cherry blues are slightly worse for games than Cherry blacks, it's not enough of a difference to affect anyone but the top 1% of players (therefore implying that basing your keyboard purchase on whether you play games or not shouldn't be as much of a consideration as how much you like the feel of the switches). I then went on to say that if you want to be precise about it, scissor switches are better yet.
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Oct 12, 2015 09:23
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I think the question being asked is why you say that scissor switches are better than mechanical ones for gaming.
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Oct 12, 2015 09:28
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GokieKS posted:I think the question being asked is why you say that scissor switches are better than mechanical ones for gaming. yeah its pretty established that you get linear mechanical for gamez over blues, but this is the first I've heard of scissors > mechanical
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Oct 12, 2015 09:54
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For action gaming, you want a light, short depress and a quick return, so you can tap a single key quickly. Scissor switches are the lightest, shortest keypress available outside of lever switches and optical switches (which are both in the realm of fantasy as far as being included in a keyboard; maybe for a customized gaming machine. They're used in steno machines).
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Oct 12, 2015 09:58
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I got a board with reds and I hate it, getting something with blues now. Linear switches being good is a lie created as they have higher yield.
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Oct 12, 2015 09:58
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The white/milky cherry mx switch in this NPKC switch tester I got from massdrop is pretty neat. It's tactile and has a separate plastic thing around the stem for the tactile feel like a blue or green switch but it's differently shaped and much less high pitched and snappy when it clicks. I figured at this point all cherry switches were either black, blue, or brown stems with different spring weights but this is a little bit different in construction. The feel is a something in between a clear and a green because it uses a heavy spring. The other thing that I was surprised with is how nice some of the chinese clones are. The MX Blacks on my TG3 cop car/deck keyboard are very smooth but not all new cherry blacks are quite as smooth. Almost all of the Kailh and Gateron linear switches seem to have a smoother travel than the new cherry black and red in the switch tester. It may be something simple like lubrication but it's noticeable if you push down on them slowly. I don't know if the clone switches will have the long term reliability of cherry switches, but they seem pretty decent. I really don't need to spend more money on more keyboards right not but it's tempting to get some of everything.
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Oct 12, 2015 10:18
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Awesome discussion, thanks guys. I'm so far from hardcore that just opening up a competitive multiplayer game these days gets me nervous and as I said I prefer my xbox controller for anything action-y (tbh, almost anything that supports it... I'd be playing Diablo 3 if they had controller support) so I'd be using my keyboard for manly strategy games, 2D RPGs, and indie stuff. I might go back to microcenter and jam on the black keys for like 20 minutes straight and see if that gets tiring, but otherwise it seems like having a bit of weight to it is more important to me than clicky vs. linear.
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Oct 12, 2015 14:27
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Klyith posted:The rosewill ones for $50 (!) CAD are being re-priced by an amazon gouger, if you want those get them from newegg. I didn't know any of this. Thank you very much for these details. I'll probably go with the ones from WASD keyboards. 
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Oct 12, 2015 15:32
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Digital Osmosis posted:Okay, how about the opposite - are linear switches actually bad for typing? Or do some typists just like that the blue ones sound like a typewriter? I went from IBM/Unicomp buckling springs to Cherry Reds and I'll tell you what, I made mistakes for like 3 months until i lightened up on my fingers. Now I can type even faster with no mistypes on reds. It really comes down to your muscle memory I think. quote:i only type on the finest vintage olivetti typewriter with a camera and OCR software set to translate the printed text to computer inputs The Unicomp/IBM Modem M was made to emulate the IBM selectric typewriters. For those of us that learned to touchtype on a selectric, the model m's are like slipping into a comfortable pair of socks.. just right. redeyes fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Oct 12, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 16:36
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How fuckin old are you???
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Oct 12, 2015 20:04
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I'm only 36 and I learned to type on a typewriter. It was a smallish school and I don't think they had many computers.
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Oct 12, 2015 20:21
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I'm 24, and I learned to type on a Selectric. I transferred those skills to computer pretty early, but still, I used a typewriter through middle school to do my homework.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:41
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My typing class in school had more students than computers so those who were late or acted up in class had to use the old electric typewriters.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:08
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Brightman posted:My typing class in school had more students than computers so those who were late or acted up in class had to use the old electric typewriters. Man, that's really cool. In my school the "second tier" was Apple IIe's which i preferred anyway.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:43
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Man, that's really cool. In my school the "second tier" was Apple IIe's which i preferred anyway. Most of my elementary school was on Mac IIs, with presumably what were AEKIIs. I ended up liking them so much we ended up getting one in the house after much convincing. That machine's definitely is in storage somewhere. I've been meaning for years to dig it out.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:57
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Man, that's really cool. In my school the "second tier" was Apple IIe's which i preferred anyway. My first tier choice were Commador 64s. 2nd was ye ol Selectric. I still love most of the old keyboards way too much. Ever seen a Data General terminal board? oooooh man, those have the best action ever.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:23
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Any recommendations for a keyboard similar to a Filco Majestouch but higher quality? Not looking for extra f keys or leds, just something solid.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:38
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Like the other guy, I got my dexterity from learning to play piano. Later we got one of those cheap Canon electric typewriters since my brother did a typing course, and I kind of used his textbook to teach myself. Later I did a course myself which tightened my technique up a bit. Actually, since we're talking about old keyboards, the ones I liked using while studying was the DEC LK401, which oddly were rubber domed. I suspect it was the curve that made it feel nice to type on. I did not like their VT100 keyboards, they were poo poo. Ticks all your boxes for old school cachet, still poo poo to type on.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:42
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Optiquest posted:Any recommendations for a keyboard similar to a Filco Majestouch but higher quality? Not looking for extra f keys or leds, just something solid. What's better than a filco?
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Oct 13, 2015 01:26
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In high school, I was in the very last class that took typing on typewriters. The next semester it was all computers. That's probably also about the time they stopped teaching you to put two spaces after a period. I'm the youngest person I know who does that.
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Oct 13, 2015 01:53
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Powered Descent posted:In high school, I was in the very last class that took typing on typewriters. The next semester it was all computers. Stop doing it. It's super annoying and weird.
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Oct 13, 2015 02:05
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Stop doing it. It's super annoying and weird. I think you meant "classy and distinguished". 
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Oct 13, 2015 02:11
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HEY NONG MAN posted:Stop doing it. It's super annoying and weird. Go. gently caress. Yourself.
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Oct 13, 2015 02:19
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Wasabi the J posted:Go. gently caress. Yourself. Unless you use monospaced fonts to the exclusion of all other typefaces, there's zero reason to do this.
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Oct 13, 2015 02:21
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