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negativeneil posted:I'm not saying it's ineffective, I'm saying it's gross and completely devoid of meaning. It bums me out seeing my female friends go full bore identity politics in support of her too, despite Bernie's platform being more in line with what they think. Please tell us more about how you know better which candidate your "female friends" should support based on what they think. I'm sure you're more of an expert on their thoughts than they are.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:29
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I interpreted that line mostly as a means of reiterating her support for the current administration, not an attempt to play the ~*~gender card~*~ or whatever we're on about here. "How would your administration be different from Obama?" By choosing that pithy reply rather than delving into any issues, she's saying that her policies would be mostly the same and that she thinks that's just fine.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:34
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PupsOfWar posted:I interpreted that line mostly as a means of reiterating her support for the current administration, not an attempt to play the ~*~gender card~*~ or whatever we're on about here. Right. That was my issue with it too. Just more centrism, Wall St. gets a pass, progress on social issues and little else. Real inspiring. Trabisnikof posted:Please tell us more about how you know better which candidate your "female friends" should support based on what they think. I'm sure you're more of an expert on their thoughts than they are. lol ok bud.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:40
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I can understand wanting someone who's lived a life similar to yours in a culturally and physically significant way to be in charge of things, yeah.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:42
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Hillary's platform is not all that different from Bernie's which is probably a good thing whichever candidate you are voting for.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:51
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Pick posted:Why wouldn't women trust straight white men who say nice words to placate them? They can have had no bad experiences with this. 
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Oct 14, 2015 08:05
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How many people voted for Thatcher just because she was a woman
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Oct 14, 2015 10:16
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Based on what I know about Hillary Clinton I am able to infer that if elected she would be America's first female president.
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Oct 14, 2015 11:21
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Typical Pubbie posted:Based on what I know about Hillary Clinton I am able to infer that if elected she would be America's first female president. Actually some say Bill Clinton was the first female president because he played the saxophone.
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Oct 14, 2015 11:52
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Trabisnikof posted:Please tell us more about how you know better which candidate your "female friends" should support based on what they think. I'm sure you're more of an expert on their thoughts than they are. I don't follow this argument mostly because it seems to imply that we don't expect other people to be able to know what we should want better than we do.
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Oct 14, 2015 11:59
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Trabisnikof is implying that he's "mansplaining" to his women friends.
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Oct 14, 2015 12:04
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There's always the risk that if Sanders is elected he will send creepy, passive-aggressive text messages to every American woman who refuses to date him. That's why I trust Hillary, who has a vagina.
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Oct 14, 2015 12:07
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DOOP posted:How many people voted for Thatcher just because she was a woman Nobody, that's not (to the best of my knowledge) how British elections work.
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Oct 14, 2015 12:15
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My friend made this: He said the Trump numbers were probably because anyone who quoted Trump would be counted in his numbers.
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Oct 14, 2015 12:31
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Blackjack2000 posted:I saw Megyn Kelly on Twitter praise Sanders; I have a feeling it's to foil Clinton. The irony is that they could feasibly commit so hard to it that they actually push the national consensus to a place where people are more ok with a self-described Democratic Socialist president than with HRC. Like, all of a sudden, the Dems can be as liberal as they want as long as Hillary isn't the one suggesting things. Just like how being Obama magically makes our current president twice as radical and left wing as any of the things that he actually does and says.
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Oct 14, 2015 12:42
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It's interesting how debate reaction polls had Bernie as the clear winner, but the news headlines this morning all are "Clinton wins."
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Oct 14, 2015 13:08
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's interesting how debate reaction polls had Bernie as the clear winner, but the news headlines this morning all are "Clinton wins." Those are all unscientific Facebook polls and such, there haven't been any real polls as far as I know. I think Bernie probably gained the most because he performed well and had a good post debate interview immediately after before another commercial break and so he got a lot of exposure which he needed. Clinton also performed well but she doesn't really have anywhere to move and everyone already knows who she is and has drawn their own conclusions.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's interesting how debate reaction polls had Bernie as the clear winner, but the news headlines this morning all are "Clinton wins." Debates never mean anything if there isn't a major gently caress up. Both sides are entrenched enough by now it was really just a showcasing of candidates. I'd be surprised if it really affects the actual polls, except maybe to give one of the also rans a small bump.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:17
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zen death robot posted:Biden will probably drop off because he isn't running and wasn't at the debate. Probably, but any poll including biden was a farce on par with 'Liz Warren running soon' all summer
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Oct 14, 2015 13:23
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the_paradigm_shift posted:Debates never mean anything if there isn't a major gently caress up. Both sides are entrenched enough by now it was really just a showcasing of candidates. I'd be surprised if it really affects the actual polls, except maybe to give one of the also rans a small bump. Oh, I think there's a good chance Bernie will get a significant bump just from increased visibility. O'Malley might pick up a few percentage points too for the same reason, though I'm not sure where he'd get the points *from*. Webb and Chaffee hosed up though -- "my first day" and "I killed a dude" -- but yeah they can't go negative so it won't matter.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's interesting how debate reaction polls had Bernie as the clear winner, but the news headlines this morning all are "Clinton wins." If the frontrunner survives without loving a cactus onstage, they win.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:32
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh, I think there's a good chance Bernie will get a significant bump just from increased visibility. O'Malley might pick up a few percentage points too for the same reason, though I'm not sure where he'd get the points *from*. Webb and Chaffee hosed up though -- "my first day" and "I killed a dude" -- but yeah they can't go negative so it won't matter. That's where I disagree, increased visibility might help the other guys, but Bernie has had decent coverage as far as the dem primary coverage goes. People know who he is and have a rough idea of what he stands for and they weren't getting much new out of the debate that Clinton and Sanders haven't been airing out in the news anyways.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:33
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I like how on CNN instead of discussing the candidates that did show up they are discussing what the debate will mean if Biden decided to run.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:37
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HRC wins every debate by not doing stupid things and giving even performances.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:38
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's interesting how debate reaction polls had Bernie as the clear winner, but the news headlines this morning all are "Clinton wins." similarly, it's interesting how Ron Paul is currently our president based on dumbass online polls. Reason 1 Bernie lost: He only did well in the second half of the debate. You know, after Chafee and Webb had bored the gently caress out of anyone who isn't a political junkie watching for amusement.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:41
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Gravel Gravy posted:I like how on CNN instead of discussing the candidates that did show up they are discussing what the debate will mean if Biden decided to run. Cable news is garbage and has to constantly find new sources of bullshit to feed its audience.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:42
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mlmp08 posted:similarly, it's interesting how Ron Paul is currently our president based on dumbass online polls. Wasn't just online polls -- the focus groups afterwards also had Bernie as clear winner. Though yeah he did do badly on the foreign policy side. He had high highs and low lows.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:50
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I am excited to see what the Sanderistas will do when Bernie loses.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:52
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the_paradigm_shift posted:Probably, but any poll including biden was a farce on par with 'Liz Warren running soon' all summer Right, but that didn't stop anyone from pointing at those numbers as proof of Clinton being on the verge of collapse. E: also Google search graphs without a "holy gently caress Webb loving killed a guy" entry are fake.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:52
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fits my needs posted:I am excited to see what the Sanderistas will do when Bernie loses. Join Jim Webb's death-or-glory killsquads
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Oct 14, 2015 13:53
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I thought his foreign policy was fine. People here seemed to take issue with his answer on Russia and how Putin might regret all his foreign adventures and the damage to his economy, but it's a pretty mainstream position and pretty much exactly the position of the Obama administration.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:53
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greatn posted:I thought his foreign policy was fine. People here seemed to take issue with his answer on Russia and how Putin might regret all his foreign adventures and the damage to his economy, but it's a pretty mainstream position and pretty much exactly the position of the Obama administration. I took issue for when he said it was fine that he lied about being a conscientious objector but would be willing to send people to war. I mean, lying and self-expediency is the bread and butter of politics, but what a weird, unforced error. Also literally ducking out of frame during foreign policy talk. Or maybe that was during gun-chat?
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Oct 14, 2015 13:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Wasn't just online polls -- the focus groups afterwards also had Bernie as clear winner. Hillary did very well dealing with the email thing and got a gift from Sanders about it. She also didn't display any weaknesses that would make it look like Biden had an opening. Bernie did well as well, but Clinton has always been likely to be the nominee unless the email thing sinks her and she showed no signs that it'll sink her. That, means that even if people didn't like her performance as much as Sanders, she got more of what she needed than he did. But Sanders did well, it's just the filler candidates that really bombed.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:57
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mlmp08 posted:I took issue for when he said it was fine that he lied about being a conscientious objector but would be willing to send people to war. I mean, lying and self-expediency is the bread and butter of politics, but what a weird, unforced error. Also literally ducking out of frame during foreign policy talk. Or maybe that was during gun-chat? I don't think he said that. He was a conscientious objector back then. He's not anymore. But frankly since the draft is immoral I think it's OK to lie to get out of it anyway.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:59
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negativeneil posted:I'm not saying it's ineffective, I'm saying it's gross and completely devoid of meaning. It bums me out seeing my female friends go full bore identity politics in support of her too, despite Bernie's platform being more in line with what they think. How dare they want a women President. Hieronymous Alloy posted:It's interesting how debate reaction polls had Bernie as the clear winner, but the news headlines this morning all are "Clinton wins." Demographics which vote on online polls are rabidly pro-Bernie, but he put in a poo poo performance as a whole and Clinton was really on the ball, so I don't think that's even remotely surprising.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:59
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mlmp08 posted:I took issue for when he said it was fine that he lied about being a conscientious objector but would be willing to send people to war. I mean, lying and self-expediency is the bread and butter of politics, but what a weird, unforced error. Also literally ducking out of frame during foreign policy talk. Or maybe that was during gun-chat? I took his response to be that he was a conscientious objector to Vietnam rather than he is a pacifist in general, which is a position I can't really fault him for even if it's not the legal definition of conscientious objector.
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Oct 14, 2015 13:59
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greatn posted:I thought his foreign policy was fine. People here seemed to take issue with his answer on Russia and how Putin might regret all his foreign adventures and the damage to his economy, but it's a pretty mainstream position and pretty much exactly the position of the Obama administration. The issue being is was a no-nothing answer, just sounded like he was killing time. Which is kind of expected, he isn't really running as the foreign policy candidate. mlmp08 posted:I took issue for when he said it was fine that he lied about being a conscientious objector but would be willing to send people to war. I mean, lying and self-expediency is the bread and butter of politics, but what a weird, unforced error. Also literally ducking out of frame during foreign policy talk. Or maybe that was during gun-chat? I was under the impression he disagreed with that particular war, which seemed to be how the audience took it as well. Which made Webb's "I killed a guy" response seem all the stranger.
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Oct 14, 2015 14:01
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evilweasel posted:I took his response to be that he was a conscientious objector to Vietnam rather than he is a pacifist in general, which is a position I can't really fault him for even if it's not the legal definition of conscientious objector. If mlpmlmp is the same poster I think and was reading in the debate thread, he faults exactly that, to him the legal definition of a conscientious objector is a really serious thing and he's very offended by someone misrepresenting themselves as one. But what I got from Bernie's answer of "I was a young man then. I'm not so young anymore" was that he had been a conscientious objector, but with age had grown to believe that sometimes war is actually necessary.
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Oct 14, 2015 14:03
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FAUXTON posted:Right, but that didn't stop anyone from pointing at those numbers as proof of Clinton being on the verge of collapse. I didn't get to watch the debate, but holy poo poo Jim Webb killed a guy?!
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Oct 14, 2015 14:12
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Nice job stophillarypac KILLED IN AMBASSADORIAL ACTION IN LYBIA
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Oct 14, 2015 14:14
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