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That would make it much better since whenever I slap mine against another it discharges.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:14
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Condiv posted:we're never going to get these things if we only agitate for what is currently politically possible No you see in negotiation it's good for your starting position to be a compromise rather than what you actually want.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:14
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Maarek posted:It's amazing how quickly people are moving to revise history with regard to the Snowden leaks. Before his leaks people that were super plugged in to politics suspected this was the case but his leaks proved the scale at which it was happening, and more importantly, moved it into the public's consciousness in a way that couldn't be ignored. And that's a very conservative reading of the whole issue, ignoring the way people who speculated about NSA spying were branding as conspiracy theorists or insane before Snowden. "Super plugged in"? It was broke by the New York Times. It was a staple of Colbert and Stewart jokes. It was on the cover of Wired. People dropped it from their minds when Bush was gone and Snowden reminded them again, but it wasn't some obscure knowledge what was happening. It was completely mainstream
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Oct 14, 2015 17:16
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Condiv posted:his response was a ton more measured than hillary's which was just "he's gotta face the music for his crimes". I can believe that sanders would commute punishment for snowden. personally i think snowden should be charged and then pardoned considering his crimes were in the national interest, and bernie is much closer to that than hillary, so yeah, better. You can believe that all you want, dude said "he must be punished". At the most that means he'd push for a somewhat lighter sentence, he's still going to be in jail for quite a bit. No future commutation is implied.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:16
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Maarek posted:No you see in negotiation it's good for your starting position to be a compromise rather than what you actually want. The Obama school of negotiations, super successful for the last 7 years. Wait no Obama's whole presidency was a pitiful display of wasted time and money spent trying to negotiate with actual lunatics and outspoken racists. That's what we need more of, for sure.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:17
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zoux posted:What things is she not pushing for, specifically, that you want? patriot act gone, free or heavily subsidized tuition not contingent on employment, actual debt relief for people who have student loans beyond refinancing, expansion of welfare and social security, etc. etc. you could say that i want her to push for socialism or social democratic policies, and she's made it clear she has no interest in advancing those causes as far as bernie
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Oct 14, 2015 17:18
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Nintendo Kid posted:You can believe that all you want, dude said "he must be punished". At the most that means he'd push for a somewhat lighter sentence, he's still going to be in jail for quite a bit. No future commutation is implied. The thing is, when you're a sanderista you can just say "I can see Bernie commuting him" and there you go, Snowden will be free forever in Bernie's America!
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Oct 14, 2015 17:19
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Condiv posted:patriot act gone, free or heavily subsidized tuition not contingent on employment, actual debt relief for people who have student loans beyond refinancing, expansion of welfare and social security, etc. etc. What are Bernie's strategies for realizing those policies?
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Oct 14, 2015 17:20
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No president will support anything less than prison for Snowden because the US defense/intelligence community would practically revolt
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Oct 14, 2015 17:22
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Nintendo Kid posted:You can believe that all you want, dude said "he must be punished". At the most that means he'd push for a somewhat lighter sentence, he's still going to be in jail for quite a bit. No future commutation is implied. and that's still more in line with what i believe than what hillary is offering, so he scores points on that for me relative to her. this is not hard, hillary definitely supports something i don't like, bernie may support something i don't like, and so bernie is more favorable in that respect than hillary in my eyes
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Oct 14, 2015 17:22
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this_is_hard posted:No the House will remain firmly R, but ideally if Hillary gets enough of a wave it can flip some seats D that would otherwise have remained R The margin in the House matters though - both in terms of negotiating passage of legislation and in terms of future elections - it's a lot easier to defend than attack, so every seat we win in 2016 is one we hopefully don't have to fight as hard for in 2018/2020, giving us more energy to fight in new battlegrounds.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:22
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mlmp08 posted:I have no problem with Vietnam draft dodgers. But it looks really bad when a draft dodger asks for the job of being the head of the military, which necessarily means they will be the head of an organization that routinely punishes service members who fail to do their duty or abandon their posts as well as ordering personnel into conflict, whether they agree with the conflict or not. I think that someone who objects to pointless wars and refuses to participate in them is exactly the sort of leader our troops need and deserve. "Dodging" an immoral draft doesn't matter; what matters is recognizing when risking the lives of our troops is moral and when it isn't.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:24
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Does the general public even give a poo poo about Snowden? That is to say, do we live in a political climate where one candidate's attitudes toward his actions can sway voters by any meaningful amount?
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Oct 14, 2015 17:25
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Rollofthedice posted:The thing is, when you're a sanderista you can just say "I can see Bernie commuting him" and there you go, Snowden will be free forever in Bernie's America! So do you want him freed or in jail, you can't attack from both positions.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:25
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ChairMaster posted:The Obama school of negotiations, super successful for the last 7 years. I don't agree with that, but even if I did what makes you think that Bernie would be able to magically break the deadlock between the White House and Congress? Full Socialism Now isn't going to fly, no matter how much you like what the guy has to say.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:26
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zoux posted:What are Bernie's strategies for realizing those policies? that doesn't matter much unless there's another candidate in the field espousing his views who has such strategies at the moment. hillary has no strategy to realize these policies because she doesn't support them and therefore is a non-starter for me in the primary. bernie has plenty of time to develop strategies (or bring on people who can) on his path to the whitehouse and beyond.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:27
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this_is_hard posted:ITT: people calling Vietnam draft dodgers cowards
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Oct 14, 2015 17:28
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ChairMaster posted:I've gotta say that as a Canadian watching your miserably long election cycle from the outside, I really can't understand why anyone would support Hillary over Bernie. Just looking at their voting records alone seems to be enough to prove that Hillary is a complete shill and has no real beliefs or stances on any issues of substance, and that she doesn't give a poo poo about anything other than being elected. I mean I guess that's fine in a normal election where your only other options are weirdos like Webb and Chafee, but this election has an actual real human being in it who gives a poo poo about the country and seems to be willing to try to make real changes to try to repair some of the extensive damage that's been done to it since Reagan was elected, and there are still people on Hillary's side? I don't understand. Electability is part of it, but as others have said Bernie is just as electable and just as likely to get anything done in the face of Republican opposition. I personally support Bernie but think the real argument for Hillary is superior presentation; she's a more professional candidate. But that cuts both ways, and is something she still has to demonstrate.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:29
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Condiv posted:that doesn't matter much unless there's another candidate in the field espousing his views who has such strategies at the moment. hillary has no strategy to realize these policies because she doesn't support them and therefore is a non-starter for me in the primary. bernie has plenty of time to develop strategies (or bringing on people who can) on his path to the whitehouse and beyond. Yes it does because he's promising impossible things. It's ridiculous when Republicans talk about impossible goals like repealing the ACA or getting rid of gay marriage and it's equally ridiculous when a Democrat promises progressive darling ideas. The reason he hasn't forwarded a strategy for implementation is that there isn't one.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:30
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Condiv posted:that doesn't matter much unless there's another candidate in the field espousing his views who has such strategies at the moment. hillary has no strategy to realize these policies because she doesn't support them and therefore is a non-starter for me in the primary. bernie has plenty of time to develop strategies (or bring on people who can) on his path to the whitehouse and beyond. I don't understand any of this.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:31
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Nonsense posted:So do you want him freed or in jail, you can't attack from both positions. Thanks, but I'm fine just pointing out how naive it is to expect Sanders to hypothetically commute a guy that he says "must be punished". I don't find much merit in gut feelings.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:31
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TheBuilder posted:I don't understand any of this. The president saying things he agrees with would make him feel good, therefore he supports Bernie Sanders.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:31
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think that someone who objects to pointless wars and refuses to participate in them is exactly the sort of leader our troops need and deserve. "Dodging" an immoral draft doesn't matter; what matters is recognizing when risking the lives of our troops is moral and when it isn't. He would still head an organization that would severely punish any service member or simply force compliance if he ordered military action and the service member said "I disagree with this like Bernie did Vietnam!" Granted the military will hammer you for using drugs and looking at our last 24+ years of presidents.....
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Oct 14, 2015 17:32
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Fried Chicken posted:"Super plugged in"? It was broke by the New York Times. It was a staple of Colbert and Stewart jokes. It was on the cover of Wired. No, it was not. As evidenced by Google having no idea that the NSA was watching their internal networks. You can argue that the computer security industry should have been aware of QUANTUM, but try walking up to someone on the street and telling them that it was being done. There's a massive difference between "yeah the NSA can spy on what you do online" and "The NSA compromises Google and Yahoo!'s foreign data centers in order to access your information."
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Oct 14, 2015 17:33
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zoux posted:What are Bernie's strategies for realizing those policies? Condiv posted:that doesn't matter much Golly I wonder how we got into this political shitshow in the first place
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Oct 14, 2015 17:33
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Condiv posted:that doesn't matter much unless there's another candidate in the field espousing his views who has such strategies at the moment. hillary has no strategy to realize these policies because she doesn't support them and therefore is a non-starter for me in the primary. bernie has plenty of time to develop strategies (or bring on people who can) on his path to the whitehouse and beyond. Isn't this the same logic people rail Republicans for on "Well you have to elect me to find out!"
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Oct 14, 2015 17:33
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showbiz_liz posted:Golly I wonder how we got into this political shitshow in the first place Largely, Ronald Reagan.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:33
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Zeroisanumber posted:I don't agree with that, but even if I did what makes you think that Bernie would be able to magically break the deadlock between the White House and Congress? Full Socialism Now isn't going to fly, no matter how much you like what the guy has to say. So many people are still posting as if the republican party is made of actual people with opinions and positions other than "gently caress you Mr. President, we're not going to do anything you want until there's an (R) next to your name". I don't see why you'd want someone who doesn't give a poo poo about anything other than her own electability in that position over someone who actually wants to change things.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:34
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I am not a book posted:No, it was not. As evidenced by Google having no idea that the NSA was watching their internal networks. You can argue that the computer security industry should have been aware of QUANTUM, but try walking up to someone on the street and telling them that it was being done. There's a massive difference between "yeah the NSA can spy on what you do online" and "The NSA compromises Google and Yahoo!'s foreign data centers in order to access your information." Sorry buddy, if you'd been paying attention, there was publicly available evidence of the fact the NSA was hoovering it all up before Snowden. All Snowden did was leak .ppt files that make for great TV news slides, and thus a media star was born.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:36
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zoux posted:The president saying things he agrees with would make him feel good, therefore he supports Bernie Sanders. more like bernie sanders would push the overton window leftwards, which is the most I can hope for at the moment. hillary cannot change the political direction of this country by steadfastly staying within the overton window and allowing the republicans to control its direction
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Oct 14, 2015 17:36
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"Vote for him and he will figure it out eventually" is not a good platform to support anybody on. If you really want that, start voting and organizing en masse for a progressive senator/representative for your state/district. Then eventually you can vote in a Sanders-like candidate and actually have a chance of passing something good, instead of dealing with immense gridlock for the next 4+ years. What do you think the Republicans will do if you have President Bernie Sanders? Their base holed up in safe districts will be chanting for blood, he could support the "Support the Military and Save the Fetuses" bill and he'd still get shot down. It will be Republican obstruction x100 because now instead of pretending Obama is a socialist they will have a President who actually is.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:36
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Rollofthedice posted:Thanks, but I'm fine just pointing out how naive it is to expect Sanders to hypothetically commute a guy that he says "must be punished". I don't find much merit in gut feelings. I saw it more as Sanders going easier on him if he surrenders himself. Everybody else would have disappeared him.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:37
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Condiv posted:more like bernie sanders would push the overton window leftwards, which is the most I can hope for at the moment. hillary cannot change the political direction of this country by steadfastly staying within the overton window and allowing the republicans to control its direction Yeah like when we elected a guy that wasn't socialist but everyone thought he was, how that made the country more progressive and liberal, which we enjoy today. You're being pandered to by the Sanders campaign. If you think that Sanders is good as a force to push the Overton window left solely within the context of the Democratic primary, that's one thing, but to think that an honest-to-goodness socialist president would do anything but entrench and grow the conservative base in the US, well, no.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:37
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Condiv posted:and that's still more in line with what i believe than what hillary is offering, so he scores points on that for me relative to her. this is not hard, hillary definitely supports something i don't like, bernie may support something i don't like, and so bernie is more favorable in that respect than hillary in my eyes Hillary and Bernie offered the exact same thing "he's going to jail if he ever comes back here". Condiv posted:free or heavily subsidized tuition not contingent on employment, A 10 hour a week job right now means that all that stuff together has to cost under $3600. That's a pretty significant reduction in the expenses outside tuition. Incidentally there exist a few colleges out there right now that operate on the basis of no tuition + 10-15 hours a week working for the college to cover all your costs. Berea in Kentucky is one of them.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:37
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Logikv9 posted:"Vote for him and he will figure it out eventually" is not a good platform to support anybody on. If you really want that, start voting and organizing en masse for a progressive senator/representative for your state/district. Then eventually you can vote in a Sanders-like candidate and actually have a chance of passing something good, instead of dealing with immense gridlock for the next 4+ years. They won't suddenly get what they want either though, and that's just as important.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:38
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See guys, when my candidate supports a position I don't like, they don't mean it.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:39
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zoux posted:Yeah like when we elected a guy that wasn't socialist but everyone thought he was, how that made the country more progressive and liberal, which we enjoy today. in the worst case i get obama 2.0 like this (which is pretty much hillary anyway). in the best case i get actual socialist policy in america. you're not doing much to convince me to vote for someone who has explicitly stated she is in opposition to my ideals
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Oct 14, 2015 17:39
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Condiv posted:more like bernie sanders would push the overton window leftwards, which is the most I can hope for at the moment. hillary cannot change the political direction of this country by steadfastly staying within the overton window and allowing the republicans to control its direction Except by, say, appointing 2-3 SCOTUS justices.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:40
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Logikv9 posted:"Vote for him and he will figure it out eventually" is not a good platform to support anybody on. If you really want that, start voting and organizing en masse for a progressive senator/representative for your state/district. Then eventually you can vote in a Sanders-like candidate and actually have a chance of passing something good, instead of dealing with immense gridlock for the next 4+ years. Who cares what the Republicans do? They're not going to let your country have nice things no matter what. You can either elect a president who wants to change things and try to get the American people to give a poo poo about voting the Republicans out of office, or you can elect a president who doesn't give a poo poo about changing anything and still get nothing of value done until the Republicans are gone anyways. There's no playing nice with these people, they're not even a real political party anymore, and I don't think that getting the black guy out of office is going to be enough to satiate them.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:40
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Zeroisanumber posted:Except by, say, appointing 2-3 SCOTUS justices. Jim Webb could appoint 2-3 SCOTUS justices too. I'm glad Hillary and Sanders would both select good candidates.
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Oct 14, 2015 17:41
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