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Death? This poll is closed. |
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| Love it! |
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49 | 28.00% |
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59 | 33.71% |
| That is not dead which can eternal lie... |
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67 | 38.29% |
| Total: | 175 votes | ||
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Flowers For Algeria posted:(...)And most of these regulations are absolutely compatible with the 2nd Amendment. ^That post contained the most sensible and rational solution to the US gun craze. But of course it will get ignored for a couple more decades; prepare kids at schools for the inevitable shootings meanwhile. wiregrind fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 22:14
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A Winner is Jew posted:"closing the bullshit gun show loophole" does not "outlaw private sales". It makes private sales follow the same rules and regulations that FFL holders are held to. You know, closing the gunshow loophole. So everyone has to become an FFL then? Or go to one and have them proctor the sale for however much they want to charge? Sounds like you're outlawing private sales, bub. You're really loving bad at this. A Winner is Jew posted:Handguns and automatic guns [being barred from ownership by the poor]? Yes. Regular guns absolutely not. Just because you can't buy a BMW doesn't mean you can't own a car. "Just because you can only follow an Abrahamic religion doesn't mean you can't practice a faith." You're really loving bad at this. A Winner is Jew posted:Crime of passion prevention + processing for the background check. Background checks take only a few minutes. The 'crime of passion' argument is groundless when someone already owns another gun in the first place, and on its face silly for anybody. No crime is going to get the 'of passion' label when the murderer hops into their car, drives to the local gun store, purchases a gun, ammunition, then drives back and commits the crime. Anyone who can wait the 30-90 minutes it'd take for that round trip in traffic will wait the five days. You're really loving bad at this. A Winner is Jew posted:Yes. Only law enforcement needs a copy of [a receipt] as well, or at least a way to track it. Well the FFL makes a record and when you buy something you get one, so I'm not sure what you're asking for. You're really loving bad at this. A Winner is Jew posted:Why are you automatically implying that poor = minority? Never once have I brought race into the discussion, only money yet you're somehow implying that I'm racist because of it. Because the wealthy are generally racist and have used their position of power and privilege to deny rights to the races they dislike? Hell, this goes back to the racist roots of gun control which were advocated for under the same less veiled racist justifications you use. Any of your classist barriers of wealth/time will disproportionally effect racial minorities, so.... You're really loving bad at this. LeJackal fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 22:15
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lol
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Oct 21, 2015 22:17
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Lejackal, it is clear that you believe that the gun is good - but do you believe the FULL litany? Or do you pick and choose which words of ZARDOZ are true?
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Oct 21, 2015 22:18
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Pretty insane if such obvious sarcasm goes over their heads. Given the vitriol in this thread it really isn't that far fetched for someone to say that sincerely. Mr. Wookums posted:Logically I didn't even wish for death for all gun owners either. Sure sounded like "efficiently reaching the only legitimate end (death)" was a positive thing. Maybe that's not what you meant, but I'm not sure how else to interpret it.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:18
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size1one posted:Because a homemade gun wouldn't be nearly as safe to use. You keeping stating how likely gun owners are to accidentally hurt themselves or someone else but here you are advocating that they increase the chances of that happening. If they cared about safety they could just use one of the guns they already own, or one of the millions of extra guns owned in this country. But what they actually want is another gun to hoard, so they can feel free to go and make as many as they want. Not like they're going to be anything but closet warmers in the first place.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:19
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What a retarded thread. I suggest an SA initiative that supplies guns to everyone in this thread (I'll bite the bullet for the greater good) so they can kill themselves.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:20
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Nessus posted:Lejackal, it is clear that you believe that the gun is good - “I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.” Tolkien Can I earn nerd cred in a gun thread? Stay tuned to find out. Nintendo Kid posted:Not like they're going to be anything but closet warmers in the first place. If all they're doing is sitting in a closet, whats wrong with a 'hoard' of  FIVE guns?
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Oct 21, 2015 22:20
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Junkyard Poodle posted:What a retarded thread. I suggest an SA initiative that supplies guns to everyone in this thread (I'll bite the bullet for the greater good) so they can kill themselves. If you're able to bite the bullet then you'd be doing it wrong. Or a magician.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:21
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Gravel Gravy posted:No actually just to power the children's hospital I run in disaster prone areas you racist. Did you make sure that said children were sufficiently socialist before you started healing them? I bet you didn't, you loving social traitor. Pol Pot 2016
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Oct 21, 2015 22:23
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LeJackal posted:“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”
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Oct 21, 2015 22:23
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size1one posted:Thanks for making it clear that you have death fantasies for all gun owners. Tell me more about how insane they are? owning a gun increases your likelihood of suffering a violent death soooo 
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Oct 21, 2015 22:24
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LeJackal posted:
It's not my fault you get so offended when it's pointed out you're a hoarder, hoarder.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:24
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LeJackal posted:“I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.” LeJackel defending his loved ones from all manner of squirrel and varmint.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:27
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Gravel Gravy posted:LeJackel defending his loved ones from all manner of squirrel and varmint. Mynd you, tree møuse bites Kan be pretty nasti...
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Oct 21, 2015 22:29
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LeJackal posted:So everyone has to become an FFL then? Yes and? That's expanding the role that FFL stores play in local gun sales thereby expanding their business. What are you, anti job creation now? Why do you hate freedom all of the sudden? LeJackal posted:"Just because you can only follow an Abrahamic religion doesn't mean you can't practice a faith." This doesn't even make sense. LeJackal posted:Background checks take only a few minutes. The 'crime of passion' argument is groundless when someone already owns another gun in the first place, and on its face silly for anybody. No crime is going to get the 'of passion' label when the murderer hops into their car, drives to the local gun store, purchases a gun, ammunition, then drives back and commits the crime. Anyone who can wait the 30-90 minutes it'd take for that round trip in traffic will wait the five days. What if they can't access the gun they already have? LeJackal posted:Well the FFL makes a record and when you buy something you get one, so I'm not sure what you're asking for. Private sales do not. LeJackal posted:Because the wealthy are generally racist and have used their position of power and privilege to deny rights to the races they dislike? Hell, this goes back to the racist roots of gun control which were advocated for under the same less veiled racist justifications you use. Any of your classist barriers of wealth/time will disproportionally effect racial minorities, so.... Oprah is a racist... got it. And no, race was the basis of denying rights. Like literally the only reason why CA has such strong gun control is because white cops were scared of the black panthers being armed. Furthermore, why the gently caress are you only now caring about poverty among minorities in the US when it comes to gun control because it's coming off like people that only care about mental health after a mass shooting, i.e. totally disingenuous. LeJackal posted:You're really loving bad at this. 
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Oct 21, 2015 22:30
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LeJackal posted:So everyone has to become an FFL then? LeJackal posted:"Just because you can only follow an Abrahamic religion doesn't mean you can't practice a faith." quote:Background checks take only a few minutes. The 'crime of passion' argument is groundless when someone already owns another gun in the first place, and on its face silly for anybody. No crime is going to get the 'of passion' label when the murderer hops into their car, drives to the local gun store, purchases a gun, ammunition, then drives back and commits the crime. Anyone who can wait the 30-90 minutes it'd take for that round trip in traffic will wait the five days. quote:Because the wealthy are generally racist and have used their position of power and privilege to deny rights to the races they dislike? Hell, this goes back to the racist roots of gun control which were advocated for under the same less veiled racist justifications you use. Any of your classist barriers of wealth/time will disproportionally effect racial minorities, so.... The so-called "racist roots of gun control" are a grotesque argument. The GI Bill was racist, should we do away with veterans' benefits? The public schooling system was highly racist and is still segregated, should we do away with it? The fact that some gun laws in the past were passed for racist reasons doesn't make gun control racist, you moron.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:31
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LeJackal posted:Mynd you, tree møuse bites Kan be pretty nasti... You don't need a hoard of guns to protect yourself from varmints. To defeat the varmint you must think like a varmint.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:31
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A Winner is Jew posted:Yes and? That's expanding the role that FFL stores play in local gun sales thereby expanding their business. What are you, anti job creation now? Why do you hate freedom all of the sudden? If there are no gun stores in the immediate vicinity? Again, you're just making it harder for the poor to have guns. A Winner is Jew posted:What if they can't access the gun they already have? What, like if they lost their safe combination? You have pretty weak ideas if you need to construct some contrived scenario where your waiting period has applicability. A Winner is Jew posted:Furthermore, why the gently caress are you only now caring about poverty among minorities in the US when it comes to gun control because it's coming off like people that only care about mental health after a mass shooting, i.e. totally disingenuous. I've been very consistent in my ideology, you're the one that wants to add as many poor-loving barriers as you can. Flowers For Algeria posted:Thorough checks don't take a few minutes. Your background check system is a laughable sieve. I imagine your idea of a thorough check involves a look at local politician's rolodex and a brown paper bag, so I'm not sure why it'd take five days. Flowers For Algeria posted:The fact that some gun laws in the past were passed for racist reasons doesn't make gun control racist, you moron. Right, its the fact that all all your ideas as proposed would screw over racial minorities makes them racist. That what justifications you have for them are thinly veiled paternalist racism makes them racist. The racist history of your regressive policies is only somewhat incidental.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:38
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Flowers For Algeria posted:The so-called "racist roots of gun control" are a grotesque argument. The GI Bill was racist, should we do away with veterans' benefits? The public schooling system was highly racist and is still segregated, should we do away with it? The fact that some gun laws in the past were passed for racist reasons doesn't make gun control racist, you moron. e: LeJackal, there appears to be strong support among American minority communities of all sorts for, at the least, 'stricter gun laws than we have now.' How do you explain this?
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Oct 21, 2015 22:39
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none of those sound technically like a ban, what are you complaining about
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Oct 21, 2015 22:42
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Let's not bring American opinion into this, we know how bad it is on most subjects. I don't know anything about polling but is it weird or leading to lead with a bunch of "hey think about stuff that scares you. Specifically these really violent people that I'm going to repeatedly remind you are out there killing americans. Now i'm going to ask you a question relating to weapon ownership"? And the question was really nonspecific too.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:43
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spoon0042 posted:none of those sound technically like a ban, what are you complaining about Poll taxes and literacy tests; not a ban.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:45
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Just wondering but can anyone name the countries that actually ban guns, and if so what types? Like 99% of the time it seems to be just "it's a real hassle to get X subtype"? Thanks in advance.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:46
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Even if we assume that none of the 13.7 million hunters rent, shoot bow exclusively, or hunt in fewer than all the seasons, such that they have the reasonable four guns, the remaining 56.3 million gun owners will mostly be people who own one gun for pest control, self-defense, or because they inherited it. The people who write lengthy posts about how liberals are the real racists and the Michigan Militia is the only hope for racial justice in this country thus probably have 10-12 guns apiece at a minimum. Given how many of them claim to not own guns or only own one, the average may actually be as high as 20 or 30 apiece for the radical core. This, of course, is not a hoard, because 30 spoons are not a hoard of spoons. You need a whole National Guard Armory before you could possibly be hoarding guns.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:46
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LeJackal posted:I imagine your idea of a thorough check involves a look at local politician's rolodex and a brown paper bag, so I'm not sure why it'd take five days. LeJackal posted:Right, its the fact that all all your ideas as proposed would screw over racial minorities makes them racist. That what justifications you have for them are thinly veiled paternalist racism makes them racist. b) I'm not proposing that the US shouldn't also adress the ongoing issues of systemic racism that are plaguing it. In fact, adressing them would go a long way to counter inequalities in access to guns. c) Lol @ your characterization of my arguments as "thinly veiled paternalist racism". LeJackal posted:Poll taxes and literacy tests; not a ban.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:54
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Unnecessary duplication is probably the most sure sign of hording. Sure someone can have 4 different guns for 4 different specific uses, but does anyone want to claim those people are the ones pulling the numbers up? That and piles of useless tac gear.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:55
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Le Jackel, I'm curious. How many classrooms full of dead school kids would it take for you to think that maybe we need to do something about making guns a little harder to get, or at least making it a bit less favorable to hoard guns in general? How many school shootings are enough to make you think that maybe, at least until we've solved whatever you think is *really* the cause of all this, we should make guns at least temporarily a little harder to get a hold of? Alternatively: How about we make it so guns are available for everyone, but ammo is strictly regulated, That way you can say everyone has a gun, it's just much less likely that crazy people can get a hold of the things that make their guns work. Added question: Do you ever stop and realize the militias that you are so fervently agreeing with on 'don't you dare touch my guns' are the same militias that are basically the KKK under another name? The same militias that are tea partiers and think black people are all thugs and deserve whatever they get? Does this cognitive dissonance ever bother you? The realization that the same thing you're saying is being parroted by literal hate groups? And that doesn't bring you any pause to reconsider? What happened, Le Jackal? What happened to make you want to hold onto guns so tightly? I know you have a history with it, as you've said before that they've saved your life. But what happened? I'm genuinely curious. I swear to you, whatever you say in response to this question I will not reply to in a smarmy manner. And for what its worth I'm sorry if I come off as condescending, I just really am tired of waking up and finding out that another 'lawful gun owner' has decided to make the change into 'crazed gunman'. E-Tank fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 22:56
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LeJackal posted:Poll taxes and literacy tests; not a ban. so again we're back to your full support for the CDC researching gun violence in whatever manner they choose
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Oct 21, 2015 22:57
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E-Tank posted:Le Jackel, I'm curious. How many classrooms full of dead school kids would it take for you to think that maybe we need to do something about making guns a little harder to get, or at least making it a bit less favorable to hoard guns in general? How many school shootings are enough to make you think that maybe, at least until we've solved whatever you think is *really* the cause of all this, we should make guns at least temporarily a little harder to get a hold of? n+1 where n is the number of mass shootings thus far. Mass shootings aren't and never will be a statistically significant gun control argument. At least street crime works in terms of making a numbers-based control argument. quote:Alternatively: How about we make it so guns are available for everyone, but ammo is strictly regulated, That way you can say everyone has a gun, it's just much less likely that crazy people can get a hold of the things that make their guns work. lolno
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Oct 21, 2015 22:57
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Nevvy Z posted:Unnecessary duplication is probably the most sure sign of hording. Sure someone can have 4 different guns for 4 different specific uses, but does anyone want to claim those people are the ones pulling the numbers up? That and piles of useless tac gear. Well, I have to be able to hunt boar, deer, pidgeons, geese, rabbits, mexican immigrants, ducks, mice and voles, maybe the odd buffalo, so that's a total of at least 9 separate guns. That's not hoarding.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:58
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I have two wives and all my friends accuse me of hoarding. I be like "Nah-uh, would you call two spoons a hoard  "
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Oct 21, 2015 23:03
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What is the hoarding argument? What reason is someone owning 1000 guns vs 1 gun an important distinction? Also, let's all kill ourselves and rid the forum of this awful thread.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:05
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Flowers For Algeria posted:At least a thorough look through an FBI database, consolidated national criminal records, including ongoing procedures. Maybe criminal associations as well. Thats what our current background check system is, essentially. The criminal associations part you'll need to explain. Flowers For Algeria posted:Let's see, what's different between guns and voting rights I wonder? Hrmmm, is it that racists haven't tried veiled attempts at wholesale restrictions for an exercise of the right? No, thats not it.....hrmm. I'll figure out the difference eventually. E-Tank posted:Le Jackel, I'm curious. How many classrooms full of dead school kids would it take for you to think that maybe we need to do something about making guns a little harder to get, or at least making it a bit less favorable to hoard guns in general? How many school shootings are enough to make you think that maybe, at least until we've solved whatever you think is *really* the cause of all this, we should make guns at least temporarily a little harder to get a hold of? I try not to compromise on human rights. For example, I feel that religion is ultimately a harmful and odious institution. I feel that if it were purged from this world humanity as a whole would be a lot better off. However, I also feel that the right to believe whatever stupid bullshit about sky wizards you want is an important human right and I would never advocate for its curtailment. E-Tank posted:Alternatively: How about we make it so guns are available for everyone, but ammo is strictly regulated, That way you can say everyone has a gun, it's just much less likely that crazy people can get a hold of the things that make their guns work. It takes a lot more ammunition to become proficient than it does to commit a murder. (I might go through ten or twenty rounds to sight in a new scope on my deer rifle, for example, while a murder can be committed with one.) I don't feel that the expense alone provides for a good ROI, not to mention the aforementioned entanglements about loving over the poor. spoon0042 posted:so again we're back to your full support for the CDC researching gun violence in whatever manner they choose No. I'd be perfectly fine with the CDC researching gun violence (which is way more important than any other kind of violence because murderers use guns to send their victims to superhell) if they did so in a manner that was well constructed and served a non-partisan purpose. I'm not in favor of a government agency wasting money on shoddy methodology as both a taxpayer and a scientist. LeJackal fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 23:05
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it seems like you Americans should stop being so weird about guns
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Oct 21, 2015 23:05
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" I don't get why people think it's 'weird' or 'hoarding' to have more guns than your typical FPS protagonist." - reasonable gun owner
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Oct 21, 2015 23:07
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Nintendo Kid posted:If they cared about safety they could just use one of the guns they already own, or one of the millions of extra guns owned in this country. But what they actually want is another gun to hoard, so they can feel free to go and make as many as they want. Not like they're going to be anything but closet warmers in the first place. Guns degrade like any other mechanical device. So no a used gun isn't safer.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:07
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Junkyard Poodle posted:What is the hoarding argument? What reason is someone owning 1000 guns vs 1 gun an important distinction? Also, let's all kill ourselves and rid the forum of this awful thread. LeJackal believes that the definition of hoarding must be applied equally to every item. Therefore: Having 4 guns is not hoarding just as having 4 spoons is not hoarding just as having 4 cats is not hoarding just as having 4 wives if not hoarding just as having 4 televisions is not hoarding just as having 4 bombs is not hoarding just as having 4 helicopters is not hoarding just as having 4 houses is not hoarding, etc., etc.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:08
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LeJackal posted:Thats what our current background check system is, essentially. The criminal associations part you'll need to explain. LeJackal posted:Hrmmm, is it that racists haven't tried veiled attempts at wholesale restrictions for an exercise of the right? No, thats not it.....hrmm. I'll figure out the difference eventually. Seriously though. There is no difference between owning guns and voting? Don't be facetious.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:10
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Junkyard Poodle posted:What is the hoarding argument? What reason is someone owning 1000 guns vs 1 gun an important distinction? Well, 4 guns is a hoard according to some posters in this thread, and hoard is an important term because it makes a reasonable grouping of items sound scary.  Pictured above; a terrible HOARD! that obviously belongs to an unhinged psychopath. Flowers For Algeria posted:Yes, but right now it is a sieve. It is useless and clearly, the fact that it is supposed to be instantaneous and automatic contributes to this. "Its useless, let me propose exactly what currently exists." I know that English is your second language, but come on, at least read your own posts. Secondly, what is the issue with "instantaneous and automatic" here? Does your ideal system involve some switchboards and secretaries routing the FFL's call to a dozen offices where they can ask a person to look through file cabinets? LeJackal fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 23:11
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