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fozzy fosbourne posted:Maybe they could make Wonder Woman CGI like the Hulk? Considering male actors are now getting cgi muscle touch ups when shirtless you could give an actress digital biceps.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:08
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If we are to accept that the actress is playing a character who has the blood of Zeus running through her veins then it really shouldn't matter what the gently caress she looks like. Maybe a character in the movie will say something stupid like "you don't look very strong" and she throws them across the room because she is supposed to be half god or krypton or whatever they decide to do in the movie.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:09
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By that logic we should happily accept a Superman who looks like Zach Braff. There's no lore-apparent reason for Superman to have muscles; his strength comes from being Kryptonian. I say again that there's nothing wrong with Gal Gadot's physique and that there's far more important things about this film to worry about, but it makes perfect sense for people to want to see an incredibly, visibly muscular Amazon princess and all these excuses for why Wonder Woman, of all characters, doesn't need to look like that is pretty silly.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:23
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It seems like if there's anything to mock about that poster it's Batman and Superman looking like roided balloons.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:25
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BrianWilly posted:By that logic we should happily accept a Superman who looks like Zach Braff. There's no lore-apparent reason for Superman to have muscles; his strength comes from being Kryptonian. Superman's job is a pretty drat good workout.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:29
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That depends on the mechanics of 'tactile telekinesis'.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:31
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SirDan3k posted:Considering male actors are now getting cgi muscle touch ups when shirtless you could give an actress digital biceps. I can see the argument that Wonder Woman being built isn't an intrinsic part of the character, but it's absolutely something I personally look for in depictions of the character. I love the artwork in the Azarrello (spelling?) run because it makes her look formidable whether she had superpowers or not. Wonder Woman is just one of those characters where if she isn't pretty built, it just doesn't look right to me.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:39
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BrianWilly posted:By that logic we should happily accept a Superman who looks like Zach Braff. There's no lore-apparent reason for Superman to have muscles; his strength comes from being Kryptonian. They're not excuses because the way Gal Gadot is built in Batman v Superman is similar to how Wonder Woman has been depicted in the comics. Yes, I understand that some would prefer the actress to maybe have more definition and be a bit bulkier, I'm not saying that doesn't make sense. I don't think anyone is. What doesn't make sense is people making GBS threads on Gal Gadot's physical appearance when in fact she bears a huge resemblance to multiple iterations of the character. Also, Superman's character hasn't ever really been prominently depicted with a Zach Braff build in the comics, movies, or tv shows. teagone fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 23:54
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If you really think about why Superman is super strong then he should look like either Michael Cera or Jack Black. It would be really hard to build muscle mass if all you had to work with was the equivalent of a 5 pound dumbbell.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:01
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Maybe Kryptonians are just naturally muscular. Or in the case of the DCEU, maybe when Jor-El fused the codex with Ka, Kal inherited some warrior/soldier-breed genetics.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:03
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teagone posted:They're not excuses because the way Gal Gadot is built in Batman v Superman is similar to how Wonder Woman has been depicted in the comics. Yes, I understand that some would prefer the actress to maybe have more definition and be a bit bulkier, I'm not saying that doesn't make sense. I don't think anyone is. What doesn't make sense is people making GBS threads on Gal Gadot's physical appearance when in fact she bears a huge resemblance to multiple iterations of the character. Also, Superman's character hasn't ever really been prominently depicted with a Zach Braff build in the comics, movies, or tv shows. It's a personal preference thing, and one group or another is going to end up disappointed because their preferred interpretation of the character isn't the one ending up on screen. I personally can't see Wonder Woman as anything other than "Amazonian", and having her any other way looks wrong and does the character a disservice in my opinion, whether that depiction is part of The Officially Licensed DC Approved Canon (tm) or not.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:08
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People are not upset because they can't get their rocks off with a skinny wonder woman. People are lamenting a missed opportunity for a little visual diversity on-screen. Look at Amanda Waller. She has been drawn burly, and she has been drawn fit. There exists precedent for both. Viola Davis was cast as Amanda Waller in suicide squad. She is a great actress, and there is nothing inherently wrong with the way she looks! But it is yet another missed opportunity for a person to be cast who does not look like a movie star. It is disappointing that they chose to go for a fit, lean look on a character whose nickname in-universe is "the wall." It is an example of choosing the 'safe' decision for the sake of sex appeal. You can argue that being fat isn't inherent to her character, and you'd be right! When you get down to it, there isn't really anything that narratively demands for Amanda Waller to be a large person. But in a situation where she doesn't need to be a particular body type, the concept of casting a large woman just for the sake of having a large woman play a strong, respected character has merit on its own. This is why it's frustrating you are accusing people of body shaming - because body shaming comes from a place of misogynistic criticism, the notion that everyone should look a certain way, when the actual motive is the desire for some characters to not look as conventionally sexy as they could possibly be. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 00:17
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Ignite Memories posted:This is why it's frustrating you are accusing people of body shaming - because body shaming comes from a place of misogynistic criticism, the notion that everyone should look a certain way, when the actual motive is the desire for some characters to not look as conventionally sexy as they could possibly be. I know I'm not responding to a hivemind here, but from every actress body casting thing I've ever seen it seems that the woman is always set up to lose. They're too pretty, or not pretty enough, too tall, or too short. I think this started to bother me with Gwendoline Christie's role in Game of Thrones, where she had criticism from both men and women with opposite arguments. mycot fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 00:20
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I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make - that people have it out for actresses specifically? Plenty of people complained that Hugh Jackman is too tall to play wolverine. edit: FWIW I think Gwendoline Christie was stupendous loving casting. Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 00:24
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Xenomrph posted:You said it yourself: some people would prefer it if she was bulkier and had more definition (and that's a common way she's been depicted in the comics, too). The fact that she isn't is why people are making GBS threads on her appearance. That's what I think is dumb. I've been saying the multiple incarnations of the character span from her being lithe and athletic to well built and jacked. The movie version is just another incarnation. No need to get upset about it when it respects the source material. quote:I personally can't see Wonder Woman as anything other than "Amazonian", and having her any other way looks wrong and does the character a disservice in my opinion, whether that depiction is part of The Officially Licensed DC Approved Canon (tm) or not. What really constitutes being seen as "Amazonian" other than being tall? Amazonian really just means a badass warrior. And like I've said, you don't need muscles to convincingly depict someone who is a total badass. Ignite Memories posted:People are not upset because they can't get their rocks off with a skinny wonder woman. People are lamenting a missed opportunity for a little visual diversity on-screen. I actually think you're the only lamenting that opportunity. Pretty much the sole reason behind giving Gal Gadot poo poo I've seen everywhere is that she's not built like an MMA fighter. People then end up calling her a bean pole with no tits or whatever bullshit. teagone fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 00:26
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teagone posted:I actually think you're the only lamenting that opportunity. Pretty much the sole reason behind giving Gal Gadot poo poo is because she's not built like an MMA fighter and relgate to calling her a bean pole or whatever bullshit. I think that you acknowledging this as my motivation is probably the best outcome I'm going to get out of this argument, so I will take it. Thank you / Sorry / Agree to disagree.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:30
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Ignite Memories posted:I think that you acknowledging this as my motivation is probably the best outcome I'm going to get out of this argument, so I will take it. Thank you / Sorry / Agree to disagree. Yeah, no, I understand your motivation. I get it. I initially took your criticism in the same vein as the vomit regarding Gal being too skinny that I read everywhere else online. I still just don't think it's fair to discredit her completely when the physical appearance she built up on for BvS is backed by the source material.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:36
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There's certainly a higher bar set for women's appearances as a rule, but people complaining about superhero casting choices is a pretty standard rule as well. And even then it kinda varies across the board.Ignite Memories posted:This is why it's frustrating you are accusing people of body shaming - because body shaming comes from a place of misogynistic criticism, the notion that everyone should look a certain way, when the actual motive is the desire for some characters to not look as conventionally sexy as they could possibly be. mycot is right that women are going to be criticized either way, which is a problem all on its own. But the fact is also that Gal Gadot is envisioned across worldwide popular culture -- every magazine, every commercial, every TV show and film and music video -- as the "right" way for women to look and every other way is "wrong" somehow. The fact that you, teagone, started this convo with that garish fanart of a 'roided out WW, as if we should all point and shudder at how bad a woman would look if she had the same muscles Superman is usually depicted with, just goes to show the double-standard.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:39
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Ignite Memories posted:I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make - that people have it out for actresses specifically? Plenty of people complained that Hugh Jackman is too tall to play wolverine. The lesson is that iconic characters casting will always upset people. Sometimes its legitimate criticism like about race or gender and other things, but other times it will be because "they don't look like them". It kind of remind me of the discussion of how we hear the voices of characters when you read comics. We all hear and picture things differently. I mean, some are too iconic, if you don't hear Kevin Conroy's voice when you read Batman there's something wrong. That ESPN body issue is great, because you can see the physic's of both men and women who have active muscles, not vanity muscles. That is what someone who is muscular from actions and not doing fitness routines so they look swole.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:44
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BrianWilly posted:The fact that you, teagone, started this convo with that garish fanart of a 'roided out WW, as if we should all point and shudder at how bad a woman would look if she had the same muscles Superman is usually depicted with, just goes to show the double-standard. I admitted it was a kneejerk response because I'm pretty tired of hearing the complaints.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:48
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teagone posted:That's what I think is dumb. I've been saying the multiple incarnations of the character span from her being lithe and athletic to well built and jacked. The movie version is just another incarnation. No need to get upset about it when it respects the source material. quote:What really constitutes being seen as "Amazonian" other than being tall? Amazonian really just means a badass warrior. And like I've said, you don't need muscles to convincingly depict someone who is a total badass. Sure you don't need muscle to be a badass, there are plenty of women characters who are badasses without muscle (Ripley, Black Widow). But Wonder Woman has in fact been depicted as being noticeably built, and it's right there in her backstory: an Amazon. She's been depicted as being visually physically formidable independent of her superpowers. I don't expect Black Widow to be all muscley, and she can still kick rear end.Wonder Woman, I absolutely do. And evidently a fair number of DC artists do, too, seeing as how she's been drawn that way multiple times. Gal Gadot doesn't need to look like a roid freak, but she doesn't even look like an athlete, and athletes have at least SOME visual muscle shapes/tone even at rest. Someone posted the photo of her flexing her arm as hard as she could, with the comment "see? She doesn't have pipe cleaner arms!" I see women with more athletic bodies shopping at Target. Maybe this is all poorly taken publicity photos. At least she's not rail-thin, that's a HUGE step in the right direction. Maybe she'll look better on screen; I sincerely hope she does, because I want her to pull it off and I want to see a good and cool Wonder Woman in the movie. But right now, I'm unconvinced. And putting her side by side with ultra-musclemen Batman and Superman isn't doing her any favors. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 00:53
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Would this be what you're expecting? Mild NSFW http://i.imgur.com/JvTXgqI.jpg or this? http://i.imgur.com/xU2CUX3.jpg Also mild NSFW
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Oct 23, 2015 00:56
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If you don't think Gal Gadot Wonder Woman looks physically formidable I don't know what to tell you. She looks like she'd kick both the other guys asses while they were struggling to move their bulky rear end muscles.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:58
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twistedmentat posted:Would this be what you're expecting? greatn posted:If you don't think Gal Gadot Wonder Woman looks physically formidable I don't know what to tell you. She looks like she'd kick both the other guys asses while they were struggling to move their bulky rear end muscles.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:01
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Stop bringing up GBS.Ignite Memories posted:I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make - that people have it out for actresses specifically? Plenty of people complained that Hugh Jackman is too tall to play wolverine. Pretty much. The Hugh Jackman example is different because he is too tall to ever be called short, so the movies just never brought up his height at all. And why not, nothing's a 100% accurate adaption anyway (though this causes its own nerd arguments). With discussions of actresses it feels like the metrics are a lot vaguer (and thus much harder to actually win). mycot fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 01:06
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Xenomrph posted:No, it only respects SOME of the source material. That's the point you're not getting. If my preference is the source material where she's built and jacked, and they don't follow that, that's a pretty fair reason for complaint. Just like if they *did* make her built, the people who prefer her more male-gazey slender depictions would have an equally valid complaint. Actually that's the point I've been reinforcing? And it be would just as dumb of a complaint on the other end of the spectrum in my opinion. quote:Have you never heard the phrase "built like an Amazon"? Key word there is "built". There's a famous song called "Brick House" by The Commodores if you need a refresher. I guess I meant more so the actual meaning behind what an Amazon was. Like in actual greek mythology. Are they typically depicted or known to be muscular women? I just know them as women warriors and being tall as the main identifiers of what it means to be an "Amazon". [edit] Wonder Woman also has been depicted as lithe and slender. You can be lithe and slender and still be physically formidable, which is what Gal looks like those press photos: a physically capable warrior. She might not be built like your proto-typical, lean muscular type with shredded definition, but she doesn't look like an absolute waif either. Her build is a good balance imo. quote:Gal Gadot doesn't need to look like a roid freak, but she doesn't even look like an athlete, and athletes have at least SOME visual muscle shapes/tone even at rest. Someone posted the photo of her flexing her arm as hard as she could, with the comment "see? She doesn't have pipe cleaner arms!" Yeah, I posted that photo. No need to be coy. If you don't think Gal looks athletic, I'm not going to bother to try and convince you otherwise. You're basically just spouting the same bullshit I read everywhere else online. teagone fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 01:13
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She's also the only person in that photo with a posture of action. The others have a posture of pensiveness whereas she looks like she's about to go break something.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:17
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Cut off one of Gal Gadot's boobs
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Oct 23, 2015 01:19
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Xenomrph posted:If my preference is the source material where she's built and jacked, and they don't follow that, that's a pretty fair reason for complaint. Just like if they *did* make her built, the people who prefer her more male-gazey slender depictions would have an equally valid complaint. Not all complaints are created equal, and they're not valid just because someone thinks them. This goes across the board.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:20
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AnonSpore posted:Cut off one of Gal Gadot's boobs She referenced that in an interview 
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Oct 23, 2015 01:20
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AnonSpore posted:Cut off one of Gal Gadot's boobs Wtf? Burn off one of her boobs get your mythology right.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:22
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 I mean, come on. You at least have to agree this trinity photo is pretty comic accurate.
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Oct 23, 2015 02:31
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Hey everyone, stop bitching about Wonder Woman's look whether you think she's perfect or boney or whatever. You've all said your piece on it. Move on.
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Oct 23, 2015 02:38
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How about we worry about the performance or how the character is used in the story and stop whining about how a woman looks like a bunch of dumb neckbeards?
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Oct 23, 2015 03:30
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teagone posted:
Bats looks bigger than Supes, which bugs me far more than anything to do with Wonder Woman.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:37
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Unmature posted:How about we worry about the performance or how the character is used in the story and stop whining about how a woman looks like a bunch of dumb neckbeards? I think complaints about her looks would be a lot more justified if she looked like a neckbeard. I think that trinity photo looks poor. Batman looks actually fat (like if he was fat and hit the weights a lot but hadn't lost the fat yet) and I refuse to believe that Alfred would let that utility belt get so dirty, I don't like WW's costume but can't figure out why aside from wanting the skirt to be a bit longer (maybe the colors?), and the lines in Supe's costume make it look like his dick is so heavy that it's causing fabric stretching.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:38
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Unmature posted:How about we worry about the performance or how the character is used in the story and stop whining about how a woman looks like a bunch of dumb neckbeards? Zachack posted:I think complaints about her looks would be a lot more justified if she looked like a neckbeard.
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Oct 23, 2015 04:00
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Gal isn't a very good actress so judging her based on that is not the gotcha you wanna pull.
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Oct 23, 2015 04:27
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teagone posted:
Batman looks like a pudgy sad kid who gets bullied by the other superheroes when the cameras aren't rolling.
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Oct 23, 2015 06:33
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Superman is the only character on that poster that doesn't look awful and he doesn't even look that great.
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Oct 23, 2015 06:44
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