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Yeah I don't really see the conflict; Buddy was a symbol of optimism and redemption in Brad's life, and now he's gonna beat up anyone/everything to help them.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:14
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Well, he kind of is nobody. Ignoring the fact that he has probably the only girl alive in the known world, before that, he was happy to sit out in the middle of nowhere with his guys. There's presumably other warlords trying to carve up turf and each other, but Brad's having none of that. He just wants to be a nobody.
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Oct 27, 2015 23:19
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What bugs me about it is the wording that Brad used. When he found the baby and insisted on keeping it, he did so because it was his "second chance." Something about that line bothers me a lot. It wasn't about repopulating the human race or anything, about the future that a woman might represent to the world. Brad didn't check whether Buddy was a boy or a girl until after he concluded that he was going to raise her. He didn't check to see where Buddy came from, either; he didn't go looking for her mother or anything else before heading right home and telling his friends that he had a baby to care for. He didn't even care whether they helped him or not; he certainly did need help to raise a baby girl in that hellhole but that seemingly didn't occur to him. He just wanted to raise her. It was all about Brad. The suspicion I keep getting is that he's trying to make up for something horrible that he did. Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 23:20
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For now I'm going with the assumption Brad just looks back on his youth, and despite trying his best to raise his baby sibling as a young child in an apocalyptic world, he understandably wasn't capable of doing so and blames himself for that. I don't think he necessarily did a specific malicious action, but perhaps he was unable to defend the baby from attackers, was unable to provide medical care, chose himself over the baby when starvation came around, some deeply unfortunate, but reasonable and forgivable, tragedy. But hey, that's me trying to be optimistic. I'm looking forward to the game crushing any semblance of that.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:09
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:
I'm gonna say straight away that this game won't explain too much about this further than what you saw in the intro. There's more context if you've seen Lisa the first, and yet a bit more in the Joyful. You can just read a summary about The First if you don't feel like playing/watching it.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:26
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It's probably worth asking actually, what's the spoiler policy for discussing The First? Brad's not in it, but it does hold a lot of relevance to this.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:17
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Is The First even a spoiler if it came out before The Painful?
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Oct 28, 2015 01:34
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I think it's kind of pointless and even irresponsible to LP Lisa the Painful without mentioning Lisa the First, the events of which are barely mentioned in this game and are crucial to understanding Brad's motivations, and it came out before this game. Anyone who's reading this who hasn't at least read a summary of Lisa the First should probably go do a quick Google search for one. I'll refrain from linking a summary, though, in case thevoiceofdog planned to go into it himself at some point in the LP. King Cohort fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 02:51
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King Cohort posted:I think it's kind of pointless and even irresponsible to LP Lisa the Painful without mentioning Lisa the First, the events of which are barely mentioned in this game and are crucial to understanding Brad's motivations. The speculation here is rendered moot by the First, which came out before this. Anyone who's reading this who hasn't at least read a summary of Lisa the First should probably go do a quick Google search for one. Painful stands on its own just fine. If you want to look up The First go ahead but I don't plan on talking about it, this thread is about Painful/Joyful.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:07
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thevoiceofdog posted:Painful stands on its own just fine. If you want to look up The First go ahead but I don't plan on talking about it, this thread is about Painful/Joyful. Here's a summary, then, for anyone who's interested: http://lisa-rpg.wikia.com/wiki/LISA:_THE_FIRST Same warnings as this LP: disturbing content related to sexual assault and suicide abound.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:29
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King Cohort posted:I think it's kind of pointless and even irresponsible to LP Lisa the Painful without mentioning Lisa the First, the events of which are barely mentioned in this game and are crucial to understanding Brad's motivations, and it came out before this game. Anyone who's reading this who hasn't at least read a summary of Lisa the First should probably go do a quick Google search for one. I played through LISA before playing THE FIRST and honestly liked it a lot more without it. I recommend not reading it to be honest, a lot of the stuff is just fine left ambiguous and quite frankly more interesting that way.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:45
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TieTuesday posted:I played through LISA before playing THE FIRST and honestly liked it a lot more without it. Nobody is forced to read it, but I believe it's important that people know that some of the speculation here already has answers. It's the equivalent of picking up Star Wars at episode 6 and postulating over who Luke's father is. I agree that episode 6 is definitely more ambiguous if you ignore episodes 4 and 5! King Cohort fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 03:51
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King Cohort posted:Nobody is forced to read it, but I believe it's important that people know that some of the speculation here already has answers. It's the equivalent of picking up Star Wars at episode 6 and postulating over who Luke's father is. I agree that episode 6 is definitely more ambiguous if you ignore episodes 4 and 5! More like watching 4 5 and 6 and ignoring episode 1 if we're being real here.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:56
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It adds context, especially with regards to a lot of later events. Though, as VoD said, the game does stand on its own, so it's hardly like walking in to the third part of a trilogy or the last 20 minutes of a movie. I really asked because I wasn't sure if Dog was planning on doing a video or two on it and discussion of it was bound to crop up sooner or later.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:12
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So if painful is 4 5 and 6 then is joyful 7?
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Oct 28, 2015 04:17
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TieTuesday posted:More like watching 4 5 and 6 and ignoring episode 1 if we're being real here. Not even that, really. It's more like watching 4, 5 and 6 and ignoring some student film that George Lucas made with some similar characters and concepts to Star Wars. Sure, yeah, The First kinda-sorta works with the Painful, but it really isn't by any means essential to understanding the plot, and certain aspects are contradicted by The Painful. All in all, it's kinda nifty if you wanna play a riff off of Yume Nikki that's themed around LISA, but King Cohort's waaaay overstating its importance.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:32
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So I've been playing this for the first time (just got to area 2), and whoever said that you never feel like you make a right decision was right on the money.Of the three post-apocalyptic sad dad games (alongside NIER and The Last of Us) this is definitely the most emotionally raw. It may even beat out Nier as the most depressing, I'm still kind of bummed about the choice I made after I left area 1. 
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Oct 28, 2015 04:47
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King Cohort posted:Nobody is forced to read it, but I believe it's important that people know that some of the speculation here already has answers. It's the equivalent of picking up Star Wars at episode 6 and postulating over who Luke's father is. I agree that episode 6 is definitely more ambiguous if you ignore episodes 4 and 5! Not just being contrarian here, but i don't think knowing about The First is necessary at all. there's enough context in The Painful that The First is easily skipped. in fact, i preferred the implications of horrible things from The Painful to seeing them spelled out for me in The First. i'd say it's actually the equivalent of picking up Alien without ever having seen Dark Star. one's an early student film with some real rough ideas of a weird alien stalking people on a lonely spacecraft, and the other is a far more polished concept that displays a greater depth and maturity from the storyteller, ultimately giving a more fulfilling experience while hitting the same broad plot strokes. You can talk about Dark Star to people about how it's critical to seeing the evolution of Dan O'Bannon's script from a comedy to what we ultimately see in Alien, but very few are going to have seen it or will even care about it. if you really need to understand Brad's motivations right away, then sure, play or read a synopsis of The First. Lisa: The Painful certainly stands alone, though, and Brad's motivations will become more apparent as the story goes on and more information about our protagonist's past life come to light. We've already had a bit of it, and it's going to continue to be parceled out along our journey until we have a more complete picture. I'm to say I'm right, or anything, but these are my thoughts on it. Fat and Useless posted:So if painful is 4 5 and 6 then is joyful 7? As a person who loves make Star Wars references: no. The Painful is more like the coda in The Dark Tower 7. The story is over and Stephen King warns the reader, "hey, this is it, it's done, but I guess some people might want some more closure, so there's a coda at the back of the book--don't read it, though! It's gonna disappoint you". The reader, confused (and perhaps a bit curious), decides it surely couldn't be that bad, and continues reading. Sure enough, it is pretty disappointing for a myriad of reasons that are hard to pin down, but hey, I guess the journey is more important than the destination, so you instead decide to look back fondly on the earlier books that brought you so much joy. EDIT: SomeIdiot posted:Not even that, really. It's more like watching 4, 5 and 6 and ignoring some student film that George Lucas made with some similar characters and concepts to Star Wars. This person said it more concisely than I did.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:48
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I never said it was essential to play. (Nor should anyone really have to play it; it's pretty boring gameplay-wise). Just that people should know that their speculation on Brad's motivations have definite answers, if answers are what they're looking for. The Painful stands on its own as a game, for certain, and if you value the ability to make your own theories there's nothing forcing you to read or play the First, but there's no downside to being more informed, and the Painful never touches on the exact events of the First except in the most vague and superficial manner possible. Like Kaboom Dragoon said, knowing what happened gives later events more meaning, and it's hardly fair or accurate to compare the First to 'some student film' considering its relevance there and the fact that you would never have exact context without having read/played it. I very much disagree that it's possible to infer exactly what happened to the title character from Painful's events alone. Going into detail any further would be spoiler territory, though, and I know I'm toeing the line as it is, so I'll drop it here.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:59
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King Cohort posted:I never said it was essential to play. No, you didn't. You said you believe it's important. I'm just saying that I believe it's unimportant. I feel you can get answers for Brad's motivations without it, that is all. We are on a discussion forum. We are discussing things. You are allowed to disagree with my things and my comparisons to other things. EDIT: for spellinG!!! Sally fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 05:03
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I should also add if that if you just want to know more about Brad's past, he doesn't even appear in The first. As people have been saying this game stands perfectly on its own and it might be even better to read about The First -after- playing through The Painful. All you need to know for now is kind of spelled out in this game's intro: Brad is a man with good intentions and his father was a colossal piece of poo poo.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:31
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Also there was a baby that Brad probably ended taking care of in lieu of his father not doing so.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:35
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Since the one guy who was going to exposit to us about the White Flash almost pointedly REFUSED to tell us any real details I'm guessing this game is never going to get into specifics about that either. Nobody knows why the world's gone to poo poo or why night almost never comes, it just is. We're in an unreal dreamscape full of barely-dressed ugly men killing each other over the last apparent woman.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:36
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Look, all you need to know is gently caress Dale Spooner. Also loving the LP so far. Combat Lobster fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 05:45
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Combat Lobster posted:Look, all you need to know is gently caress Dale Spooner. Also, RIP Terry.
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Oct 28, 2015 05:47
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Thanks for linking to that stuff about Lisa: The First. I played through it, and I don't think it's integral to following the plot of LISA at all, but it does have little parallels in terms of what's going on in Brad's head. I'm getting the notion that the things that happened to Lisa imprinted on Brad too, and he's fleeing from memories of his father just as she did. The difference, I suppose, is that while Brad took to swallowing lots of Joy in order to keep the flashbacks at bay, Lisa cracked entirely and hanged herself, as seen on the title screen of LISA. Also, I'm never going to look at Brad's friend Rick the same way again. 
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Oct 28, 2015 06:18
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GeneX posted:Also, Terry is the Jerry of this game. 
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Oct 28, 2015 06:22
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So don't actually look at the first
Fat and Useless fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 16:29
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fat and useless posted:stuff Those are a lot of the things I was hoping people would avoid from The First, can we remove that?
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Oct 28, 2015 16:42
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Alright then lets save the First discussions for the end. If that makes sense.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:15
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Ugh, can I get back the five minutes I spent reading the synopsis for The First. I'm glad he got that out of his system before doing this one, because ugh. The Painful has been, well, Joyful by comparison.
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Oct 28, 2015 18:44
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the painful is a far better game than the first and the first should be ignored imo
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Oct 28, 2015 19:04
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RickVoid posted:Ugh, can I get back the five minutes I spent reading the synopsis for The First. Yeah, no kidding. Between the content itself and how the synopsis was written, god drat was that hard to read and infuriating on more than one level. I only skimmed it, but found out enough to know a) I don't need to play Lisa the First, and b) it isn't going to have enough of a bearing on this LP to matter to me.
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Oct 28, 2015 19:06
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Playing the First for The Painful is like playing the little comic book before Mass Effect 2 to make ME:1 game decisions, but in this universe ME1 never existed. You get opportunity to see a little back story, have your protagonist's character slightly more fleshed out via story context, and there's even decisions that don't matter which get you meaningless story fluff. Anybody who wants know what they need from Lisa: The First should just escape the house in the beginning, end up In the main lobby, then climb the rope as their first choice of path. That's all you need to know.
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Oct 28, 2015 19:31
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It is very hard for me to evaluate the First. Depressing stories with difficult topics can be handled in games. I'd argue that for once the darker interpretations of Yume Nikki have some weight. (which is one reason I'd argue for YN as an Earthbound like, it FEELS horribly dark but you don't know why, and a lot of the more obviously negative symbols are isolated and still don't have an obvious meaning) I cannot evaluate that kind of story very well but I did not like playing the first. I can evulate it as a Yume-Nikki-like and as one it falls horribly flat. It lacks anything resembling subtlety. All the symbols have very obvious meanings and there's very few of them that get repeated over and over. Having dialog and goals and obvious symbols really hurts that kind of game because then you just have a lovely thin adventure game. Idea of Yume Nikki likes is it let you explore and form your own goals, run your own investigation instead of having an assignment. Comparing Yume Nikki to The First is like comparing Rene Magritte to Banksy. It was much better for Dingaling to do an rpg with decisions and gameplay to execute his intended narrative in this case.
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Oct 28, 2015 20:25
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RickVoid posted:I'm glad he got that out of his system before doing this one, because ugh. Yyyyyeeeaah so that's where all the amateurish grimdark-for-grimdark's-sake edginess probably went.
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Oct 29, 2015 03:25
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I had a shockingly fortunate run against Charmy. He focused on Brad, who can actually take a hit from him, and succumbed to Nern's ghost stories. Even Terry contributed! By throwing molotovs, but hey, someone's gotta be the item monkey.
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Oct 29, 2015 03:42
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Rangpur posted:I had a shockingly fortunate run against Charmy. He focused on Brad, who can actually take a hit from him, and succumbed to Nern's ghost stories. Even Terry contributed! By throwing molotovs, but hey, someone's gotta be the item monkey. Terry was indirectly mvp of that fight for me. Charmy hit himself twice for 2k damage a pop. Practically won the battle for me. In fact, for all the crap that he seems to be getting here, I can't help but feel Terry is a lot better than he's been given credit.
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Oct 29, 2015 04:01
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mauman posted:In fact, for all the crap that he seems to be getting here, I can't help but feel Terry is a lot better than he's been given credit. 
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Oct 29, 2015 04:49
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Rangpur posted:I had a shockingly fortunate run against Charmy. He focused on Brad, who can actually take a hit from him, and succumbed to Nern's ghost stories. Even Terry contributed! By throwing molotovs, but hey, someone's gotta be the item monkey. Charmy never got a regular physical attack off against me. I kept him knocked down and/or scared for most of the combat. At one point, he was Feeling Weird, Knocked Down, Scared, and Crying.  He did still manage to howl a few times though.I wasn't using Terry because, in summary: gently caress Terry.
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Oct 29, 2015 12:25
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