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I didn't watch the episode. Instead I watched Donna episodes, because she was the best companion. Also, most of the first season of The X-Files. And some Supernatural.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:38
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The kiddo, who just watched this week's episode - "I didn't get most of the political stuff, so it went right over my head. And the Zygons looked cool."
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Nov 5, 2015 02:12
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Rewatching this episode... honestly, I really liked it. This is some drat good Doctor Who. The message was way more blatantly pro-multiculturalism than I first remembered. I honestly had a hard time imagining any other sort of interpritation. I was trying to explain to the people I was watching with that a lot of folks on the internet thought it was super racist... and I was honestly trying to explain why people thought that (because a lot of folks here I really respect found it racist/xenophobic) and was having a hard time finding evidence in the episode. Like at one point they're wondering about "truth and consequences" and Kate Stewart dismisses it out of hand as ideological rubbish... and then she's immediately shown up when it turns out that actually thinking about that phrase gives them a solid lead. Her brash militaristic us-vs-them attitude is immediately shown up by someone actually thinking about what the other side might mean. That's the tone of the whole episode. People are continually being knee-jerky and militaristic, and in every instance they're proven to be wrong. And I think the sticking point for some people may be that it goes one further. It tries to trick the audience into going along with the paranoia and militarism before pulling back the curtains. The Zygon on the plane says through gnashing teeth that it demands... the world! But then next scene we see with it, it goes on to clarify that what they really want is a world in which to live openly as themselves. The emotional arc goes from "Horrors, look at this monster!" to "Wait, that... sounds pretty reasonable" in basically a single statement (interrupted by another scene for dramatic effect). Same arc in New Mexico- we're shown the carnage that the Zygons caused, all those who died in the conflict and we're rightly horrified! Those literal monsters! But by the end of that subplot we learn that the conflict began when humans attacked a Zygon child. What happened remains tragic, but we have completely recontextualized those "literal monsters" from moments ago as scared children. Because of the nature of the dramatic cliffhanger, we didn't end up by driving that point home yet. The Zygons are in control, and so they have to still look like bad guys on some level for there to be tension. But honestly... the Zygons haven't been any more violent than the Humans have tried to be. The Zygons honestly just don't have a Doctor on their side to hold them back. I cannot fully address the potential real world harm that presenting these ideas (even to tear them down) might cause. I think that's a legitimate concern, and I'm not qualified to say how harmful or not this episode is in that respect. But from my perspective at least, it was a fantastic episode with a really beautiful message. The hero here is Osgood. The embodiment of good is still coexisting. And honestly, that could be a really trite hollow message. "Let's all get along" is a message we're told from kindergarten. But it the more its tested, the more people abandon idealistic coexistence to "pragmatically" fight the enemy, the more it means to truly uphold that ideal. Osgood still embodies that good, even in this dark and hostile world. I'm going to be rooting for her and the Doctor to triumph over fear and violence with hope and reconciliation next episode.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:48
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I didn't see last years X-mas special, and seriously, did someone on the crew write that Christmas song that in every special?
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Nov 5, 2015 03:43
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Eiba posted:Snip Thank you. This is a very good post and the points you expound on definitely enlightened me on how someone would view The Zygon Invasion as a solid episode. I still see the script as "muddled and unclear in its message" but can see now how "open ended" it could be to a viewer.
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Nov 5, 2015 03:53
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CobiWann posted:Thank you. This is a very good post and the points you expound on definitely enlightened me on how someone would view The Zygon Invasion as a solid episode. I still see the script as "muddled and unclear in its message" but can see now how "open ended" it could be to a viewer. I still disagree. The problem is that it went from zero to KILL ALL THE HUMANS even with that "we just want to be ourselves" declaration. There are plenty of better ways it could've been written than "they killed a Zygon child by accident, SO WE KILLED THE ENTIRE TOWN!  ."
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Nov 5, 2015 03:58
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There's a horror movie called Alien? That's very offensive, no wonder every one is always invading you. That's pretty funny.
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Nov 5, 2015 03:59
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It's a very interesting position on the episode, Eiba, I appreciate you verbalizing it like that. I think I'm going to watch the episode again before the second part airs, because once that has aired it's pretty much going to recontextualize part 1 for good or bad. As I said earlier in the thread, no matter how good it might be it still won't excuse part 1 for being bad - but I would like to view it again with some of these different interpretations in mind, and see if the other (and I think more pressing) issues I noted in regards to the poor structure and characterization were actually a kneejerk reaction to not liking the clumsy and frankly still rather inappropriate use of the familiar ISIS/terrorist imagery.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:02
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Enourmo posted:you goddamn fool rory was only ever a robot in pandorica opens/big bang. that timeline got wiped, that's why the hand gun never came up again. rory just got auton!rory's memories, not his body. God I wanted that to happen so bad just to see Rory flip the gently caress out. cargohills posted:Everybody I know personally thought this episode was alright. Run. Everyone you know has been replaced by Zygons.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:03
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Eiba posted:drat good Doctor Who. Well, we've got a Zygon in our midst folks. You know what to do. Get your guns, face him down, then let him kill you because he turned into your momma. But yeah, to sum up briefly why I think it was xenophobic at best and racist at worst: We saw a blatant alllusion to the Zygons as terrorists and ISIS in particular, we never saw the supposed Zygon majority's point of view beyond watching an apparently ineffectual leadership get killed, and what we did see throughout was generally poorly written so even if it wasn't meant to create that impression, no real effort was made to avoid it. Of all of the above, not seeing the peaceful majority is the biggest issue for me by far. Even 24 had some episodes where you'd see a downright nice Muslim family help Jack, or Jack torture someone who turned out to be innocent and see that torture isn't always ideal, and this was from a show made shortly after 9/11 when everyone was like hell yeah, torture all the dudes .
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Nov 5, 2015 06:29
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Rhyno posted:Run. Everyone you know has been replaced by Zygons. Even me?
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Nov 5, 2015 08:04
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cargohills posted:Even me? Did you like the episode? I think it's a fair assumption that if you enjoyed the most recent episode then you are indeed a Zygon. That goes for everyone in this thread.
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Nov 5, 2015 08:08
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twistedmentat posted:I didn't see last years X-mas special, and seriously, did someone on the crew write that Christmas song that in every special? ...what song?
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Nov 5, 2015 09:42
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The_Doctor posted:...what song? The Doctor Who theme, those hacks
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Nov 5, 2015 09:52
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The_Doctor posted:...what song? There's this Christmas song that is played in every Xmas special, its like this brit pop Christmas song. Maybe its famous over there.
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Nov 5, 2015 10:03
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twistedmentat posted:There's this Christmas song that is played in every Xmas special, its like this brit pop Christmas song. Maybe its famous over there. This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8KT365wlA
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Nov 5, 2015 10:12
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Oh yeah, Slade's Merry Christmas Everybody is a national treasure, and will be played every year in Britain until they ban either music or Christmas. For me personally, it's not the Christmas season until I hear it on the radio. Sooo... any day now, really.
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Nov 5, 2015 10:22
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The_Doctor posted:Oh yeah, Slade's Merry Christmas Everybody is a national treasure, and will be played every year in Britain until they ban either music or Christmas. For me personally, it's not the Christmas season until I hear it on the radio. Sooo... any day now, really. Believe it or not, this song has failed to be in the US top ten charts - EVER! This, really, tells you all you need to know about American culture. And possibly British culture.
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Nov 5, 2015 10:50
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The_Doctor posted:For me personally, it's not the Christmas season until I hear it on the radio. Sooo... any day now, really. It's when you go into a shopping centre or a supermarket and they're playing it over their PA for me. I prefer "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day" by Wizzard, myself.
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Nov 5, 2015 11:20
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Wheat Loaf posted:I prefer "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day" by Wizzard, myself. This is the basis of Civil War, you know.
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Nov 5, 2015 11:24
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Fairytale of New York is better Its both a Christmas song, and a good song. That's supposed to be impossible to do!
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Nov 5, 2015 11:36
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Wolfechu posted:Believe it or not, this song has failed to be in the US top ten charts - EVER! Still, at least America has that loving Christmas Shoes song!
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Nov 5, 2015 11:44
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The_Doctor posted:This is the basis of Civil War, you know. There were a lot of glam rock Christmas singles in the 1970s. "Lonely This Christmas" by Mud, "Step Into Christmas" by Elton John, the aforementioned "Merry Xmas Everybody" and "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day" by Slade and Wizzard respectively. Probably lots of others I don't know about. Gary Glitter had one in the mid-1980s ("Another Rock & Roll Christmas"). The best Christmas single of all, of course, requires no introduction.
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Nov 5, 2015 12:27
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Wheat Loaf posted:There were a lot of glam rock Christmas singles in the 1970s. "Lonely This Christmas" by Mud, "Step Into Christmas" by Elton John, the aforementioned "Merry Xmas Everybody" and "I Wish It Could Be Christmas Every Day" by Slade and Wizzard respectively. Probably lots of others I don't know about. Gary Glitter had one in the mid-1980s ("Another Rock & Roll Christmas"). You are forgetting something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqBF7TiyATo Paladinus fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 12:31
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I was never really into Bo Selecta.  (Disclaimer: I am not Craig David.)
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Nov 5, 2015 12:44
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Here in the colonies, it’s Christmas as 12:01 am, 1 November. The Halloween music stations all switch to Christmas music (we have both kinds, classic AND contemporary), the decorations go up in the major stores, ABC Family starts their holiday film rotation, and my wife and I have our yearly argument about whether or not to show the kiddo the best Christmas movie ever – Die Hard. To my wife, Christmas is A Muppet Christmas Carol, It’s A Wonderful Life and Love Actually. To me, it’s Black Christmas, The Ref, and this scratched up episode of Doctor Who I found in an old film can in my grandfather’s garage. The Feast of Seven or something?
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Nov 5, 2015 12:52
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Remember Amy's clock glitching out and showing a weird time? The Doctor Who Twitter account just posted a screenshot of it.
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Nov 5, 2015 13:19
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I don't think Australia really has any favorite Christmas tunes, at least not that pervade the airwaves like I hear from the UK and US. It's probably a symptom of not having the 'traditional' Christmas setting to enjoy songs about, combined with the fact that none of the four Australian artists that are played with any regularity have Christmas songs either. Stuff like Do They Know It's Christmas gradually gets played more and more over December, but that's about it. It's an upside of living in Australia, but we make up for it by being really obnoxious around the nationalist holidays. I'm always a little surprised we haven't gone harder on Halloween than we do, that seems like the sort of event Australians would enjoy and we don't really have any holidays around that point to fill the gap. The Melbourne Cup, I guess, but that's only one day. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 13:47
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Cleretic posted:I don't think Australia really has any favorite Christmas tunes, at least not that pervade the airwaves like I hear from the UK and US. It's probably a symptom of not having the 'traditional' Christmas setting to enjoy songs about, combined with the fact that none of the four Australian artists that are played with any regularity have Christmas songs either. Stuff like Do They Know It's Christmas gradually gets played more and more over December, but that's about it. It's an upside of living in Australia, but we make up for it by being really obnoxious around the nationalist holidays. Halloween's never really been a thing here, no matter how hard people and companies have tried to push it (which they really haven't all that much beyond a token display of candies in department stores). There's no local culture behind it like the Melbourne Cup, even if that's just a public holiday and betting on the horses. The closest you probably get is private get-togethers to get shitfaced and maybe watch some horror films.
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Nov 5, 2015 14:05
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Rob Schrab mentioned on the Harmontown podcast that the BBC wants him to put one of their properties into the sequel to the Lego Movie, which narrows it down to either Doctor Who or Broadchurch, I suppose.
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Nov 5, 2015 15:54
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Rochallor posted:Rob Schrab mentioned on the Harmontown podcast that the BBC wants him to put one of their properties into the sequel to the Lego Movie, which narrows it down to either Doctor Who or Broadchurch, I suppose. Moondial. My money's on Moondial.
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Nov 5, 2015 15:56
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Rochallor posted:Rob Schrab mentioned on the Harmontown podcast that the BBC wants him to put one of their properties into the sequel to the Lego Movie, which narrows it down to either Doctor Who or Broadchurch, I suppose. Broadchurch is from ITV, not the BBC. It's clearly Saturday night hospital series, Casualty.
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Nov 5, 2015 15:57
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Rochallor posted:Rob Schrab mentioned on the Harmontown podcast that the BBC wants him to put one of their properties into the sequel to the Lego Movie, which narrows it down to either Doctor Who or Broadchurch, I suppose. Sherlock.
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Nov 5, 2015 15:58
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Rob Schrab is also a notoriously big fan of Doctor Who.
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Nov 5, 2015 16:04
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DoctorWhat posted:Rob Schrab is also a notoriously big fan of Doctor Who. and Songs of Praise.
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Nov 5, 2015 16:07
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Rochallor posted:Rob Schrab mentioned on the Harmontown podcast that the BBC wants him to put one of their properties into the sequel to the Lego Movie, which narrows it down to either Doctor Who or Broadchurch, I suppose.
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Nov 5, 2015 16:29
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Newsnight
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Nov 5, 2015 16:44
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The_Doctor posted:and Songs of Praise. Peter Capaldi in line to reprise the role of Tristram Campbell.
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Nov 5, 2015 16:51
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Rochallor posted:Rob Schrab mentioned on the Harmontown podcast that the BBC wants him to put one of their properties into the sequel to the Lego Movie, which narrows it down to either Doctor Who or Broadchurch, I suppose. The phrase "Lego Broadchurch" makes me irrationally happy.
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Nov 5, 2015 17:06
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nice to see the daily politics getting the recognition that it deserves
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Nov 5, 2015 17:06
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