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He just confronted his Dad before the massacre so I'm pretty sure Kirkman's going to hand wave everything back after that doesn't work out. I doubt he'd give up the big superman kills everyone twist. Invincible is my guilty pleasure, overwrought and overly serious but everyone is just a meat balloon filled with blood waiting to explode. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 00:06
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I stopped reading even before the rape issue. It used to be SO good. One of the best books on the market.
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Nov 10, 2015 00:19
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At this point, I'd be quite happy if Kirkman handed Invincible off to, I don't know, Jay Faerber or someone, let them tell stories about the characters.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:27
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I'm in the 80s starting from one and I dunno what the hell y'all are talking about.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:11
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Kirkman's a lot like Dan Slott, in my mind, in that he's often a great idea guy, but his execution's often lacking. The best issues of Invincible are the calmer ones, to my mind. The early story where he first meets Allen is great, and I enjoy the later book where he runs into the guy with a gravity rig robbing a bank and they peacefully talk out the situation. Some of the stories he's told with Eve are fun, like how she hosed off to Africa to feed the world for a while, and I genuinely think the idea of a super-genius like Robot taking over the world to save it from itself, done within a relatively established universe, is solid. Then you have the nearly constant levels of gore, the high death rate among the secondary characters, the way it lurches rapidly and drunkenly from status quo to status quo, and the sheer amount of the book that has almost nothing to do with Mark himself, and it's awkward and top-heavy. In a way, it's a pretty good metaphor for everything I grew to hate about DC Comics in the years immediately preceding "Flashpoint."
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Nov 10, 2015 02:23
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Instead of complaining about Robert Kirkman, we should probably get this thread back on track. Steve Gerber introduced Foolkiller in his amazing Man-Thing run. This is a character who thinks God has given him a mission to kill all "fools". He probably has a higher body count than Carnage. The odd thing about him is the way he's confused that anyone would think what he's doing (going around killing basically anyone who contradicts him or gets in his way about anything) is wrong in any way. Maybe not so much a "I can't believe this exists" sort of character, but more of a very unique villain that exemplifies the strange approach to superhero comics Gerber always took.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:53
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Fool Killer got a gritty reboot with child murder, rape, and an old man getting punch so hard he puked approximately his body weight in blood.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:58
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That's unfortunate, because Fool-Killer's actual origin is kind of amazing.
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Nov 10, 2015 03:05
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In looking his origin up I learnt that not only did Man-Thing predate Swamp-Thing unlike what I thought, but that there's a Man-Thing movie that is apparently awful and now I need to watch it.
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Nov 10, 2015 03:54
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Steve Gerber's Man-Thing is so good that I'd actually place it ahead of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing.
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Nov 10, 2015 03:58
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Ghostlight posted:In looking his origin up I learnt that not only did Man-Thing predate Swamp-Thing unlike what I thought, but that there's a Man-Thing movie that is apparently awful and now I need to watch it. Did the Man-Thing movie have a Creedance Clearwater song in it? I think we know who won this contest.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:05
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H5zXh6MVvg Winner: Swamp Thing.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:21
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Lurdiak posted:
I'm straight up reading this right now. Don't forget that Foolkiller has the preserved corpse of the faith healer that apparently made him walk (he had to use a wheelchair since he was a kid) and turned him into a fundamentalist in his Punisher-esque war truck HQ. You know, the corrupt reverend he killed himself because he caught him hanging out with a blonde woman, drinking and sitting on a pile of cash? That he then proceeded to preserve to turn him into a "shrine"? Also Foolkiller showed up in the comic in the first place to kill a character introduced in a previous issue because he was a DJ who played a "blasphemous" George Harrison song. Don't forget, God was revealed to be two dogs earlier in the series. The best thing though is one of the villains of the comic is a corrupt construction magnate who wants to level part of the Everglades to build an airport, named Franklin Armstrong Schist. F.A. Schist? Man-Thing rules. Steve Gerber rules. Lurdiak posted:Steve Gerber's Man-Thing is so good that I'd actually place it ahead of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. While Man-Thing is a superb comic, you're absolutely wrong about that. Swamp Thing is a strong candidate for best comic ever published by Marvel or DC. Also not sure why they even need to be compared, beyond the fact that they're both mystical swamp monsters who both were originally scientists. Very different mystical swamp monsters even. The two comics have very different tones. Ghostlight posted:In looking his origin up I learnt that not only did Man-Thing predate Swamp-Thing unlike what I thought, but that there's a Man-Thing movie that is apparently awful and now I need to watch it. I've never seen it but I'm guessing the Man-Thing movie eliminates the cool occult stuff and leans hard on the "serum turns scientist into monster" angle and is probably pretty much a ripoff of the Wes Craven Swamp Thing film. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 05:05
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Lurdiak posted:Instead of complaining about Robert Kirkman, we should probably get this thread back on track. And now he is a Deadpool.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:07
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Ghostlight posted:there's a Man-Thing movie that is apparently awful and now I need to watch it. It better be 3 hours long so it can be billed as Giant Size Man-Thing.
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Nov 10, 2015 07:39
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Speaking of Steve Gerber, Howard the Duck once fought a vampire cow:
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Nov 10, 2015 07:49
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Conveniently, that took place in Giant-Size Man-Thing.
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Nov 10, 2015 08:23
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SirDan3k posted:Fool Killer got a gritty reboot with child murder, rape, and an old man getting punch so hard he puked approximately his body weight in blood. I just googled Foolkiller and holy poo poo this had to have happened in this series huh?  Or was it in the Max series that looks exactly like a Spawn spinoff (because Angel Medina drew it) 
Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 09:07
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I posted this in the Baddass thread (though it certainly isn't badass at all.Madkal posted:Is it too late to talk about favourite Punisher moments because mine is the issue when he gets his skin colour turned black and teams up with Luke Cage Basically the story was the Punisher needed to get some plastic surgery done on his pretty mug, and the plastic surgeon not being the best around gave ol' Frank quite the serious (and racist) black face there.  Naturally being black now, Punisher teams up with Luke Cage (which never seemed to be a requirement for Danny Rand) and goes inner city crime busting because....stuff. Anyway, here's a write up with a few more panels showing the whole weird thing off.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:25
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Lightning Lord posted:I just googled Foolkiller and holy poo poo this had to have happened in this series huh? 1) The original religious zealot that Steve Gerber created and killed off in Man-Thing. 2) A second Foolkiller (Greg Salinger) briefly introduced by Gerber in Omega the Unknown before he quit Marvel the first time, who was a secular humanist maniac that killed people for being boring and having no poetry in their soul. This one appeared sporadically in the 1980s in Roger Stern Spider-Man books. 3) A third Foolkiller (Kurt Gerhardt) who appeared in that top Foolkiller series, written by Gerber during his brief post-Shooter/pre-Perelman reconciliation with Marvel. He was basically Michael Douglas's character from Falling Down, mentored via computer BBS by Greg Salinger to become the new Foolkiller. By the end of the series he had gotten a new name, face, and rejected the whole Foolkiller thing, while Salinger (from an insane asylum) insisted that society (he) would create a new Foolkiller when there were too many fools in it. 3a) Gerber had another falling out with Marvel not long after that series, but had another brief detente in the Jemas/Quesada era. He did a Howard the Duck MAX series, and talked about doing a new Foolkiller series, but never did. He then had a third falling out with Marvel, and passed away. 3b) Foolkiller III (Gerhardt) reappeared as one of the guys who broke out of the Raft in New Avengers, and then sort of generically bounced around as part of the "villain in group shots when the Hood or Norman Osborn or the Thunderbolts gather up a bunch of criminals" gang for the past decade or so, probably getting all of three lines of dialogue in all that time. Then as Gavok mentioned, he is now part of Deadpool's Gang of Deadpools. 4) While I never read it, the MAX series is by Gregg Hurtwitz and probably contains all of the stuff mentioned. It's a totally new character and exists outside of the Marvel Universe, though i think Hurtwitz hinted it takes place in the "Punisher MAX" universe as much as such a thing exists.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:51
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I was going through that archive, and was reminded of that time when Punisher committed suicide (due to a demon whispering in his ear), was resurrected by an angel, given a leather trenchcoat full of Oh, and it turned out the mob hit that killed his family was actually a demonic sacrifice, and the reason Castle's family died was because their guardian angel was off somewhere getting drunk. Frank has the weirdest poo poo happen to him.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:09
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Evil Mastermind posted:I was going through that archive, and was reminded of that time when Punisher committed suicide (due to a demon whispering in his ear), was resurrected by an angel, given a leather trenchcoat full of I believe Ennis used that whole thing as an excuse as to how Frank could be young and still have fought in Vietnam. This was in his Marvel Knights run before Max when he was writing the character as still part of the Marvel universe.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:50
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The Dr. Strange discussion in the Funny Panels Thread reminded me of the animated Dr. Strange movie. It came from that period when Marvel was releasing a bunch of mediocre animated movies to DVD every six months. The only well-liked one is Hulk vs. Wolverine, mainly because it had Deadpool in it while coming out the same time as X-Men Origins: Wolverine's butchering. One of the lowlights is Invincible Iron Man, which came out about two years before the RDJ movie that made Tony Stark the biggest deal. It was incredibly boring and kind of laughable in how they tried to show how adult they were by throwing in can't-see-anything nudity, which ended up being counter-productive. The final battle had Tony fighting a possessed woman who was naked because of reasons and because it wasn't R-rated, they spent the entire climax with cropped shots and bad camera angles to obscure everything. So anyway, Dr. Strange. On one hand, it's got a decent structure for what you'd expect from an animated Strange origin story: He's a jerk, accident, meets the Ancient One and Wong, trains with Mordo (and a bunch of forgettable other magic users who are gradually killed off with nobody caring), Mordo is evil, Strange beats Mordo, Strange beats final endboss Dormammu. They even give some backstory to explain why Strange is such an rear end in a top hat involving his dying sister which is on the border of a good character device and being sort of creepy. There are two really, really dumb things about this movie. First, the people behind it decided that magic is lame and boring. Instead of spells, hand lasers and other kinds of sorcery, the movie is about swords. Magic swords. It's like the Ancient One is running his own Green Lantern Corps and the only construct anyone knows is swords. Swords, swords, swords. That's what magic is all about. But whatever, it gives the animators something to do. At least it's a style choice and I can almost respect that. It's how the story resolves itself that really gets my shaking my head. Midway into the movie, Strange is training against Mordo with – you guessed it – magical sword constructs. Mordo has Strange beat, but then as they push their swords into each other, Mordo's vanishes. It's gathered that Strange has the keen ability to absorb magic into himself. They don't really bring it up for the most part. Later in the movie, when Mordo is beaten and Dormammu shows up, Strange is in over his head. They fight for a moment or two and Strange hasn't been successful. Someone points out that Dormammu's seemingly made of magic itself! Then Strange is all, "Wait! Magic? I got it!" He proceeds to defeat Dormammu by absorbing him into himself completely with zero ill effects. Just like that. He didn't win because of being a superior wizard or through realizing a life lesson in the heat of battle. Nope. He just remembered that he had some inexplicable power that they randomly established 40 minutes ago and everything's finished. He and Wong go back home and all the dead friends are completely swept under the rug. The end.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:35
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muscles like this? posted:I believe Ennis used that whole thing as an excuse as to how Frank could be young and still have fought in Vietnam. This was in his Marvel Knights run before Max when he was writing the character as still part of the Marvel universe. Ennis didn't write Angel Frank, which basically killed the punisher off for a while. He basically lampshades it and just rolls directly into the MK run without ever addressing what happened in detail. Which is the best way to deal with it, because it's dumb as gently caress 
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Nov 11, 2015 00:04
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You gotta understand that Punisher being a demon slayer for heaven wasn't bad because the idea is stupid, it was bad because it was written really badly and had a bunch of pointless retcons to Frank's backstory. Franken-Castle is at least as stupid a premise but it ruled.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:10
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I thought Ghost Rider was heaven's demon-slayer.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:21
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That's a very recent retcon. Ghost Rider used to just be a Demon or maybe an ancient native spirit.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:23
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Lurdiak posted:You gotta understand that Punisher being a demon slayer for heaven wasn't bad because the idea is stupid, it was bad because it was written really badly and had a bunch of pointless retcons to Frank's backstory. Yeah. Remender made it very clear that ridiculous premise aside, his run was based on being true to who Frank is in light of being put in an unfamiliar situation. It just helped that it was still completely badass. Plus I love that scene where Frank's sidekick goes off on Frank for treating him like crap, causing Frank to consider it for a second, apologize and compliment the kid. It comes off as completely emotionless from Frank, but it still means all the world.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:30
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Sigma-X posted:Ennis didn't write Angel Frank, which basically killed the punisher off for a while. He basically lampshades it and just rolls directly into the MK run without ever addressing what happened in detail. Nice of Constantine to cross over to help out.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:42
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One thing I always thought was a bit, "Huh?" was Ghost Rider's origin story, which I'm pretty sure goes like this, in the space of a couple of panels: "My father was dying... Medical science could do nothing... There was only one place left to turn... SATAN!" Tony Isabella wrote a series of Ghost Rider stories in the 1970s, where Ghost Rider teams up with a mysterious hippie called "the Friend". Isabella intended that the Friend would turn out to be Jesus Christ. Shooter, for whatever reason, didn't like the idea, and pulled rank (I'm not sure if he was EiC yet; I believe he would've been an editor) to change it, so the Friend was actually Satan pretending to be Jesus (disguised as a hippy). Also, in the 1970s, Satan in the Marvel universe was just a red dude in red underpants.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:43
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*legally distinct from Mephisto.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:06
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ImpAtom posted:Invincible is just way too loving depressing and cynical and it never goes anywhere but more depressing and cynical. Just like TWD? Byzantine posted:I thought Ghost Rider was heaven's demon-slayer. And Spawn got any sevens fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 04:21
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Spawn is Hell's child-murderer-killer. He kills child murderers, for Hell.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:23
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Ghostlight posted:In looking his origin up I learnt that not only did Man-Thing predate Swamp-Thing unlike what I thought, but that there's a Man-Thing movie that is apparently awful and now I need to watch it. I've seen it. It's worse than the Swamp Thing movies. Lurdiak posted:Steve Gerber's Man-Thing is so good that I'd actually place it ahead of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. I'll agree that Man-Thing is underrated, but that's going a bit far. My personal go-to reference for "This is a comic that actually exists!" is Street Poet Ray.  Marvel published multiple issues of terrible poetry accompanied by ugly cartoons.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:27
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Alhazred posted:Speaking of Steve Gerber, Howard the Duck once fought a vampire cow: Please tell me he killed it by driving a steak through its heart.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:47
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Speaking of Invincible it has the most bizarre deeply depressing issue where a hero ends up just outright murdering his girlfriends parents for no reason. I'll try and dig up a screen shot or something. It's just really hosed up for no reason and then it's never as far as I am aware ever mentioned again that this guy just up and murdered two people then covered it up by throwing their car in a ravine with them in it. That's it that's the whole loving issue. Super hero who through out the entire series is just a do good just ups and murders two people.
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Nov 11, 2015 07:32
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Travis343 posted:Spawn is Hell's child-murderer-killer. He kills child murderers, for Hell. Having never read spawn, it makes sense if you take it as given that Hell wants more souls and child murderers will go to Hell when they die. Also children are innocent if they've been baptized, so child murderers are filling up heaven and tipping the scales.
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Nov 11, 2015 07:46
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Hollismason posted:Speaking of Invincible it has the most bizarre deeply depressing issue where a hero ends up just outright murdering his girlfriends parents for no reason. I'll try and dig up a screen shot or something. It's just really hosed up for no reason and then it's never as far as I am aware ever mentioned again that this guy just up and murdered two people then covered it up by throwing their car in a ravine with them in it. That's it that's the whole loving issue. Super hero who through out the entire series is just a do good just ups and murders two people. I think that was Bulletproof, who was standing in for Invincible when Invincible temporarily lost his powers.
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Nov 11, 2015 09:27
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They where his parents and he had been faking being his dead college graduate twin brother when they showed up for a surprise visit, found out and freaked out.
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Nov 11, 2015 09:32
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Gavok posted:First, the people behind it decided that magic is lame and boring. Instead of spells, hand lasers and other kinds of sorcery, the movie is about swords. Magic swords. It's like the Ancient One is running his own Green Lantern Corps and the only construct anyone knows is swords. Swords, swords, swords. That's what magic is all about. But whatever, it gives the animators something to do. At least it's a style choice and I can almost respect that. It's how the story resolves itself that really gets my shaking my head. I never watched the movie, but I remember seeing the box, and it looked like it was based on the attemped reboot by JMS in 2004-2005, where Doc's whole origin got turned into a very-thinly-veiled Matrix ripoff with energy swords instead of kung fu. It sucked so hard. Not to mention they made Clea a brunette because Trinity. 
prefect fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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