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No to derail (rerail?) the thread but this is an interesting response to Man of Steel from noted rear end in a top hat Writer Mark Millar http://www.gamesradar.com/mark-millar-how-man-steel-traumatised-create-huck/
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Nov 18, 2015 21:08
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ImpAtom posted:No to derail (rerail?) the thread but this is an interesting response to Man of Steel from noted rear end in a top hat Writer Mark Millar http://www.gamesradar.com/mark-millar-how-man-steel-traumatised-create-huck/  at Mark "adds rape, incest, and ultraviolence to his stories for funsies" Millar being "traumatized" by a simple neck snap. That whole interview sounds like a really cynical ploy to hawk his new book.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:16
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ImpAtom posted:No to derail (rerail?) the thread but this is an interesting response to Man of Steel from noted rear end in a top hat Writer Mark Millar http://www.gamesradar.com/mark-millar-how-man-steel-traumatised-create-huck/
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Nov 18, 2015 21:18
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Electromax posted:Our grandfathers witnessed the infamous leotard-wrestling matches between Adam West and George Reeves. Our fathers cried when Christopher Reeve's accident cut short the highly anticipated confrontation with Michael Keaton that resulted the film being disastrously reworked as Batman Forever. Nick Cage refused to even show up on set after George Clooney sent him death threats. Fans were torn in two at the news of Kevin Conroy being beaten nearly comatose outside the recording booth by Tim Daly. Tom Welling was seen cackling with glee when the first season of David Mazouz's turn as the infamous Batman had a cold critical reception. And now two of the most popular, most beloved actors of the modern age, Ben Affleck and Hen Cavill, will meet in the ring to decide who survives to lead the Justice League against the Joker in the next film and eventually marry Gal Godot in Justice League 3. The other will be effectively erased from cinematic history. Not sure we've ever seen a high-profile conflict like this before.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:42
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Mark Millar licks goats, so you know.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:43
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quote:I loved Superman as a kid not because of his edginess or his potential for a fatal solution, but because he could do anything he wanted and still chose to be nice. Well there's your problem, Mark. Superman can't do whatever he wants in Man of Steel. You might even say that he's not. your. Superman.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:49
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HorseRenoir posted:
Didn't he write a story that ended with the protagonist - who was just a traced picture of Eminem - quote "loving" the reader "in the rear end"? 
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Nov 18, 2015 21:54
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quote:I want to remind everyone that we didn’t get into this game, didn’t dress up as these characters as kids, because they were so miserable and bad-rear end and violent and cruel. We loved them because they were KIND and, deep down, I think we’re hungry for that right now just a few months before we see Superman throttle Batman or Captain America beat the Bejesus out of Iron Man while cinema audiences watch, wondering why the good guys went so bad. Huck is the antidote to the antihero and it’s going to be an interesting experiment this week. In the words of every great comic-book, to be continued... Real nice self-fellating closing paragraph Mark. 
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Nov 18, 2015 21:58
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Mark Millar veered into self parody a long time ago.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:45
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sean10mm posted:Didn't he write a story that ended with the protagonist - who was just a traced picture of Eminem - quote "loving" the reader "in the rear end"? I can't say for sure but if you want just a 'does that sound like a thing he'd do' reaction, yea probably. I wanna say this isn't the first time Millar's been all 'oh god it's just so TRAUMATIC to see this' basically just to cash in on 'I don't like thing' buzz while ignoring his whole history of being an edgelord master.
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Nov 18, 2015 23:58
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I can't say for sure but if you want just a 'does that sound like a thing he'd do' reaction, yea probably. When were the other times, if you don't mind me asking?
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Nov 19, 2015 00:15
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Equeen posted:When were the other times, if you don't mind me asking? Oh that's why I said I wanna say, I can't remember for sure, I just vaguely have memories of Millar trying to pretend he's got any moral high ground over minor things before, but I may be confusing him with another shock dude. He's hardly unique there.
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Nov 19, 2015 00:29
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Oh that's why I said I wanna say, I can't remember for sure, I just vaguely have memories of Millar trying to pretend he's got any moral high ground over minor things before, but I may be confusing him with another shock dude. He's hardly unique there. Oh, sorry, I misread.
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Nov 19, 2015 00:54
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I hate that Man of Steel took a (compared to the movies and cartoons) pretty unique approach to how someone as awesome as Superman could come by putting it through the lense of a refugee, an alien in the literal sense and not in the post-Alien sense where people don't trust him. The way it talks about the paranoia that gives way to the US military not handling things too effectively, etc. and all a lot of people took away from it was that he snapped someone's neck and that that's not what Superman is "supposed" to do. But in general yeah, that piece is just transparent "How do I sell this less edgy book to my 'time to learn what evil dick tastes like' audience," while simultaneously realizing how many fans felt personally betrayed by Man of Steel not being the same plot as like 99% of all recent superhero flicks.
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Nov 19, 2015 02:51
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Mods please add to OP:
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Nov 19, 2015 03:57
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sean10mm posted:Didn't he write a story that ended with the protagonist - who was just a traced picture of Eminem - quote "loving" the reader "in the rear end"? please dont imply that hitch traces, he isnt greg land also yeah that's the ending to wanted but as dumb as it is, it at least makes sense in context with some of his other indie books. the whole book up to this point has been an insanely juvenile power fantasy and now the mian character is scoffing at you for liking him. it's a thing he's gone back to since, most notably in kick-rear end, where he was super mad at people for not Getting wanted then he made kick-rear end 2, where he was even more mad about people not getting kick-rear end 1 and threw in the towel then he kinda went the other direction with kick-rear end 3 and i'm still trying to piece that one together man has a weird relationship with nerd power fantasies, though, is the thing i'm trying to communicate here edit correction: j.g. jones, not hitch. the rest stands BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 04:12
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He hates nerd power fantasies that weren't written by him, it's not that hard.
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Nov 19, 2015 06:40
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Tatum Girlparts posted:He hates nerd power fantasies that weren't written by him, it's not that hard. nah, that's not it. he's not a dude you can kinda boil down to one sentence to explain his weirdness. like garth ennis i can go "obsessed with the definition of being a Good Man, also really loves dick jokes". millar writes books that are mostly messing with basic power fantasies, and like half of them are really angry at nerds, and half of those are really angry at his own fans, and then the other half actually have happy endings. its weird. i don't get him and i've spent more brain power on him than i have on calculus
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Nov 19, 2015 14:07
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HorseRenoir posted:
People are sneering at this interview but I dont see what the big deal is. He wrote a tonne of dark superhero stories and seeing MoS made him realise it was getting samey so he decided to write something different for a change. As a writer he's allowed to do that. Yeah he wants to sell his book but that same criticism could be levelled at every piece of commerical art discussed in this forum.
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Nov 19, 2015 14:15
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massive spider posted:People are sneering at this interview but I dont see what the big deal is. He wrote a tonne of dark superhero stories and seeing MoS made him realise it was getting samey so he decided to write something different for a change. As a writer he's allowed to do that.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:01
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massive spider posted:People are sneering at this interview but I dont see what the big deal is. He wrote a tonne of dark superhero stories and seeing MoS made him realise it was getting samey so he decided to write something different for a change. As a writer he's allowed to do that. He has, often, done worse and will continue to do worse after this. This is just bullshit.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:03
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Burkion posted:He has, often, done worse and will continue to do worse after this. Millar's always been a good bullshitter, and it shows, because he might be the most adapted comics artist to film outside of the guy that did Asterix and Obelix.
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Nov 19, 2015 18:07
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Martman posted:There's a difference between looking at trends and deciding to take a different direction (like because it's too "samey") and literally saying that Man of Steel "traumatized [him] so much" that he had to change directions. It just feels dishonest for him to act like he was actually hurt or whatever given the levels of depravity he's show himself to be comfortable with. He isn't saying that MoS "literally" traumatised him as in sent him to a sanitarium to recover. It's hyperbole. The point isnt that MoS is darker than the stuff he's put out, its that when even the mainstream, likable depictions of superman show him killing a guy maybe its time to reassess whether superheroes killing people is even edgy anymore. I get that mark millar is the guy who wrote the rape-incest-baby-abortion-bomb but I think he's allowed to have an opinion on the trend even if he was complicit in it. You're acting like the criticism is that he was hypocritically appalled by the level of evil on display but thats not it at all. massive spider fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 19:04
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Millar's always been a good bullshitter, and it shows, because he might be the most adapted comics artist to film outside of the guy that did Asterix and Obelix. He's got an unfair advantage tho bc starting with kick rear end most of his indie stuff was written to sell
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Nov 19, 2015 19:31
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Literally The Worst posted:He's got an unfair advantage tho bc starting with kick rear end most of his indie stuff was written to sell Lots of people do that. Millar is unusually successful at it, though.
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Nov 19, 2015 19:37
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Nov 19, 2015 20:18
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massive spider posted:You're acting like the criticism is that he was hypocritically appalled by the level of evil on display but thats not it at all.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:17
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Jenny Angel's essay is rad, btw. It's so good she kinda made me feel like not doing mine.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:15
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Lots of people do that. Millar is unusually successful at it, though. i dunno, i think there's a distinction to be made between "i made a dope comic that i think would make a good movie" and "i made a pitch that i can sell as a comic to prove there's interest"
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Nov 19, 2015 22:28
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Jenny Angel's essay is rad, btw. It's so good she kinda made me feel like not doing mine. Please do yours! You're a good poster, I'm sure your analysis will be thoughtful, and I'll enjoy reading it as an expansion of my understanding of Happy Madison's implicit ideology. In fact, I promise I will read and respond to every essay written for this mod challenge except for Baron Bifford's.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:43
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Yeah I don't think I'm gonna be doing mine. Haven't had the time or gumption to put myself through Master of Disguise again.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:51
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Oh yeah, I forgot my disclaimer. I am not responsible for any mental damage watching these movies may cause. And yes, everyone read Jenny's essay, it's lovely.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:10
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Ok, throwing my hat into the ring for Click. Got a fun topic idea, too!
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Nov 20, 2015 16:34
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In the 1970s, screenwriters Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett began work on the script for what would become 1979's Alien, one of the most influential horror films of all time. The initial concept was that of a mining ship that goes to investigate a mysterious signal from an uncharted planet where they encounter a dangerous alien. The writers wanted an interesting way for the alien to infiltrate the ship, and Shusett came up with the idea of the alien raping a crewmember, and a foetus eventually bursting out of the victim in horrific fashion. This idea of sexual violation was so compelling that they made it the core of the film. "This is a movie about alien interspecies rape," in O'Bannon's words. Not only is it a movie about rape, it is a movie about male rape. The host for the alien embryo is Kane, a man. Most rape victims in horror movies are women, but this time it is a man. "One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.'" - O'Bannon After Alien was greenlit by the studio, O'Bannon recommend the surrealist H.R. Giger to Ridley Scott as a designer for the alien. O'Bannon and Scott were impressed by Giger's highly original and deeply disturbing style, much of which features strong erotic overtones. In particular, Scott was impressed by Necronom IV, which depicted a strange creature with a phallic head and an enormous elongated penis, and chose it as the basis for the alien's design.  Necronom IV, 1976 The final design of the alien is not quite as pornographic as Necronom IV. The head was smoothed out and the elongated penis became a dagger-tipped tail. The alien's body was made gaunt and androgynous. For most of the film, we only see fleeting, partial glimpses of the adult alien's form, and always in bad lighting conditions (this, so that the audience couldn't notice that it was just a guy in a rubber suit), so any sexual overtones in its design would have been difficult to perceive by audiences. The adult alien is also literally sexless. It itself is incapable of procreating. All it does is kill. The real sexual horror of the movie lies not in the alien's adult form but in the intermediary creature that its species uses for procreation: the facehugger. The facehugger orally rapes its victim, forcing its proboscis down the victim's gullet to implant an embryo in the stomach. After gestation, the fetus chews its way out of the host's body (why did the alien emerge through the sternum when it could have more easily come out Kane's belly?). This method of reproduction bears resemblance to that used by parasitoid insects, such as spider wasps. But what distinguishes the alien from such insects is that the implanted larva actually absorbs genetic material from the host and integrates it into its own genome, producing an adult that resembles the host in some way. In Alien 3, the facehugger attaches itself to a dog, which eventually produces a quadruped alien. Scott imagined the aliens were a sort of biological weapon, and that the Space Jockey's ship was a warship on its way to drop its payload of eggs onto some unlucky target world. By absorbing genetic material of the local fauna, the aliens would gain instant adaptation to whatever ecosystem the target population lived in, becoming more efficient killers (since aliens have been shown to be capable of surviving the vacuum of space and swims in molten lead, one wonders what's the point). In any case, this genetic absorption makes the method of reproduction look even more like rape. Kane was not just a host to the alien foetus, he was in a perverse way its father. In lieu of a tongue, the alien has this sort of protruding set of jaws that the alien uses offensively. Some critics have interpreted this secondary jaw as another phallic symbol ending in vagina dentata. Such an interpretation is dubious, at least to me, given that the alien prefers to bury said jaws in its victims' heads, and that these are not used for insemination but simply to kill. In his production diary, Giger's Alien, Giger simply calls it a "tongue with sharp teeth". His words suggest that he added it simply to make the alien appear more inhuman. Giger had painted the following image in 1976 in Necronomicon:  Necronom II, 1976 However, none of the concept art or production notes for the alien mentions phallic symbolism of the tongue. The studio accepted that the movie would be R-rated and did not demand a toning down of the film's sexual overtones or violence. “[The studio execs] weren't leery of the R rating. Everybody knew from the start we'd get an R. It was always assumed. The rating aspect of our film has been inflated all out of proportion. I'm asked more about that than anything else. I can't figure out why.” - David Giler (Interview with Ciné Fantastique) The phallic symbolism of the alien's skull did not offend censors. As Giger pointed out in an interview, anything that is long and tubular can appear phallic if you choose to see it that way. Plus, the alien is always seen in shadows, making the phallic imagery even less obvious. However, the producers did take issue with the design of the facehugger egg. Giger's early concept art of the egg featured a vagina-like slit opening. The producers complained that they couldn't show that to audiences in Catholic countries and asked him to modify it. Art director Leslie Dilley suggested a more flower-like opening, which inspired Giger to change the slit to a cross (which Catholics are so fond of).  When the alien first emerges from Kane's chest, it has a phallic look to it, but it didn't start off like this in the design process. The crew had agreed merely that the creature should be blind and have teeth. Early designs of the chestburster featured appendages. In fact, Giger's earliest concept art showed something he described as a "degenerate plucked turkey". Giger was not satisfied with this idea and discarded it.  Special effects artist Roger Dicken created a miniature version of the adult alien. Giger felt the alien should not resemble any known animal, so he told Dicken to remove the hind limbs and shrink the forelimbs. Now the chestrburster was practically a tube with teeth. No doubt this redesign made the dinner scene easier to pull off. The alien is not the only sexual fiend in the film. A scene in the movie involves the android Ash's attempt to kill Ripley after she discovers his treachery. After tossing her against a few walls, he tries to force a rolled up magazine into her mouth. In the Blu-ray commentary for the scene, Ridley Scott explains the Freudian overtones he actually intended. Ash, the android, is sexually frustrated and tries to orally rape Ripley with a rolled up magazine. Unlike the alien reproduction cycle, Ash's rape attempt did not appear in the script but was improvised on-set. "I figured that robots had to have... if they're really sophisticated... had to occasionally have the urge. So I said to Ash: 'How do you feel about sexual drive?' and he said 'Great'. So I said 'rather than just beating her up, isn't it more interesting that he actually has always wanted to and here's his opportunity but he doesn't have that part and therefore it's a magazine." - Ridley Scott (Alien Blu-ray commentary track) When I first saw Alien, this Freudian symbolism was lost on me (as with Sigourney Weaver, apparently). I rationalized that Ash, being an android made for lab work and not combat, didn't know what he was doing an improvised a stupid way of choking Ripley. One may wonder why on Earth anyone would program lust into a sexless android. I've read that modern day roboticists have enough difficulty teaching robots how to open doors and recognize faces. A very clever engineer with a strange and cruel sense of priorities spent hundreds of man-hours programming lust into an android and not give him a dick  Or perhaps there is something special about how they build android minds in the future. In the novelization of Aliens by Alan Dean Foster, androids are given randomly generated personality quirks to make each one more of an individual, so perhaps Ash's lust was a byproduct of this. The novelization is not considered canon, but this is the only description of android manufacture I could find. Alien has plenty of sexual themes but nothing that is actually erotic and titillating. Early scripts of Alien featured a sex scene and sexually-charged dialogue between crew members. These were intended to explore the sexual politics of spacer culture. Being a space traveler means long stretches of monotony and no circadian rhythm. O'Bannon conceived sex in space as impersonal, for relief rather than love or comfort. Scott chose to cut these scenes from the script because they would have felt out of place and gratuitous. He also rationalized that sexual liaisons on journeys that last months could lead to problems and are probably discouraged in spacing culture. The Director's Cut edition of Alien featured a previously deleted scene which shows Dallas and Lambert wrapped in a cocoon that slowly transforms them into facehugger eggs. This scene is more body horror than sexual horror, but it continues a general them of violation. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 22:42
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Nov 20, 2015 23:55
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This discussion about Alien and sex made me think about the subtext to Alien 3, and from other sources i've seen on the internet, it is about Ripley's rejection of societies expectation of her to be a mother, especially in light of the fact that she is raped at the beginning of the movie. The alien is the rapist and the prison is the justice system that allows the rapist to still be free while preventing Ripley from having her abortion. So in some ways Alien 3 is an anti-abortion film as well. I'm probably completely off the mark about all of this to be honest. Anyways, Baron Bifford's essay was pretty good imo. Baron Bifford posted:"I figured that robots had to have... if they're really sophisticated... had to occasionally have the urge. So I said to Ash: 'How do you feel about sexual drive?' and he said 'Great'. So I said 'rather than just beating her up, isn't it more interesting that he actually has always wanted to and here's his opportunity but he doesn't have that part and therefore it's a magazine." - Ridley Scott (Alien Blu-ray commentary track) Someone correct me if i'm wrong here, but isn't the magazine also a porn mag? I said come in! fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 00:11
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I said come in! posted:Someone correct me if i'm wrong here, but isn't the magazine also a porn mag? It is.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:18
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ImpAtom posted:It is. That makes that scene even better. It's a nice touch.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:19
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Baron Bifford posted:One may wonder why on Earth anyone would program lust into a sexless android. I've read that modern day roboticists have enough difficulty teaching robots how to open doors and recognize faces. A very clever engineer with a strange and cruel sense of priorities spent hundreds of man-hours programming lust into an android and not give him a dick. Or perhaps there is something special about how they build android minds in the future. In the novelization of Aliens by Alan Dean Foster, androids are given randomly generated personality quirks to make each one more of an individual, so perhaps Ash's lust was a byproduct of this. The novelization is not considered canon, however. I see this as an offshoot of the attempts to make the androids more human. For Ash to understand people, he has to understand emotions, sexuality, all our psychological factors. So it's not necessarily that he was explicitly programmed to be lustful, but that he understands that penetration is an expression of power in humans and has been frustrated in his inability to realize this power. The alien, which he speaks of admiring, has no such limitation.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:32
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I didn't know the magazine scene was improvised on set. Now I'm wondering who had the porn magazine on hand. Would be funny if the production designers whipped up their own just for those few shots.
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Nov 21, 2015 00:38
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