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Krailor
Nov 2, 2001
I'm only pretending to care
Taco Defender

A Bad King posted:

Are we stuck at 2013 performance levels then? Doesn't Intel have a huge amount of cash for research?

Intel's primary customer base (datacenters buying Xeons by the thousands) have indicated that they're much more interested in performance-per-watt rather than just raw performance. So that's where Intel has been focusing their research over the past several years and they've made huge gains in that department.

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Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Is there anything from Kaby Lake that's remotely appealing to Power Users?

Additional PCI-E lanes are cool but at the sane time that's only important to SLI/Crossfire users.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Skandranon posted:

There are some physical limitations we are running up against with current processor technology. Going to take something major to break through that.
It's less cleverness than you'd think. A gig of L1 would be SSD's all over again.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

JawnV6 posted:

It's less cleverness than you'd think. A gig of L1 would be SSD's all over again.

basically this

eroding the memory mountain is the name of the game here, getting data to the computation is the bottleneck

gonna be interesting if hbm on cpu packages starts to happen

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Tab8715 posted:

Is there anything from Kaby Lake that's remotely appealing to Power Users?

Additional PCI-E lanes are cool but at the sane time that's only important to SLI/Crossfire users.

More lanes for Alpine Ridge and PCIe SSDs

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

Oh Boy Desert Map

A Bad King posted:

Are we stuck at 2013 performance levels then? Doesn't Intel have a huge amount of cash for research?

Malcom XML's point basically answers the question with regards to consumers. Cost-effective ways to widen bottlenecks are often the focus now, and those methods don't always necessarily fall into the processor package itself. We've seen L4 cache used on a separate package inside the heat spreader on Broadwells, but it looks like Intel apparently thought that was a big pain in the butt so they've relegated it to second priority as you can see with the Skylake-S 4+4e part. Further down the memory chain, Intel's got 3D XPoint (Optane) non-volatile storage in the wings, and that should also make general performance faster if they decide to be bros and give us consumer-oriented Optane DDR4 sticks (in addition to the planned NVMe SSDs).

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


Seems like Xpoint is planned for Kaby Lake.

Moey
Oct 22, 2010

I LIKE TO MOVE IT

Josh Lyman posted:

My 3570K + mobo will be 5 years old at that point.

Yup. My 3770 is still chugging along in my home server without issue though. :)

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness
Still waiting for a reason to upgrade from my 2500k. :colbert:

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


DrDork posted:

Still waiting for a reason to upgrade from my 2500k. :colbert:

Same here, maybe Cannonlake will provide a jump worthwhile but I bet I'll be keeping this system until 2019.

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
I assume the 2500K is only really good if you can overclock it? I've been considering getting a used one (EDIT: I guess a 2500 makes more sense?) to stave off building a new system for a while, since my Pentium G630 is getting sadder by the minute and they use the same socket. I don't have a motherboard that can overclock, though.

HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Nov 20, 2015

Gucci Loafers
May 20, 2006

Ask yourself, do you really want to talk to pair of really nice gaudy shoes?


You can overclock anything with "K" but Sandy Bridge is honestly just that good without any O/C.

Verizian
Dec 18, 2004
The spiky one.
From what I've seen everything after the 2500K has been a step backward for single thread performance. I've got mine clocked to 4.6Ghz with push/pull air cooling and that puts it within ~3% benchmark performance of a 4.6Ghz overclocked 6700K. Though the 6700K has much superior multi thread support, most games don't need that, especially AAA console ports. The main benefit the 2500K had was P67 chipsets couldn't use the integrated GPU so it basically acted as a built in heatsink and the heatspreader was soldered on while following chips have tended to use a less conductive TIM adhesive.

Some people also say that you can't hammer all the cores on a modern overclocked i7 because the iGPU will add some heat and it'll throttle down two of the physical cores before it hits the real world gaming performance of a 2500K. Don't know how accurate that is as there's no clear answer on if the 6700K is an upgrade to the 2500K. I still plan to buy one for my new system because I want to be able to comfortably edit 2k and 4k videos as well as use my 8 in audio interface for recording with ReaperDAW.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Verizian posted:

Some people also say that you can't hammer all the cores on a modern overclocked i7 because the iGPU will add some heat and it'll throttle down two of the physical cores before it hits the real world gaming performance of a 2500K. Don't know how accurate that is as there's no clear answer on if the 6700K is an upgrade to the 2500K.

This is some crazy bullshit. 4790Ks / 6700Ks may be hot, but both are easily faster than a 2500K at similar clocks. The 6700K is definitely an upgrade to a 2500K, single threaded or multithreaded. Probably not worth the price, but it's definitely an improvement.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!
Also I've seen a decent number of people who have got their 6700k to 5GHz stable with nothing more than a decent 140mm tower cooler, hell, there are people who hit 5GHz on them without even increasing the voltage at all. Same thing for the 6600k, overclocks really drat well, Sandy Bridge well.

Verizian
Dec 18, 2004
The spiky one.
Well that's good to know. When I've asked on here before I was told it's closer to a sidegrade to go for a 6700K. Googling brings up a lot of misinformation too and it's hard to filter through it.

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD
Not many games are going to bottleneck on a 6700 or a 2600 and if they do it is because they are gigantic multiplayer FPSes or badly ported AAA console games an no amount of CPU will fix that.

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
Sounds like a cheapo used 2500K that I later get a motherboard and cooler to overclock would be a good choice if nothing cool happens in the world of CPUs by the time I want to upgrade. Thanks for the info.

future ghost
Dec 5, 2005

:byetankie:
Gun Saliva
Unless you find a really good deal on a combo board + CPU like on hardforum or something, the $100-$150 it would cost for a 2500K would probably be better used on a platform upgrade instead.

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
I may have underestimated how hard it is to get my hands on a Z68 motherboard. I guess it's back to the plan of stick it out until CPUs improve a little more over Sandy Bridge than they have so far, with a 2500 as an emergency backup plan.

HMS Boromir fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Nov 20, 2015

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

HMS Boromir posted:

I may have underestimated how hard it is to get my hands on a Z68 motherboard. I guess it's back to the plan of stick it out until CPUs improve a little more over Sandy Bridge than they have so far, with a 2500 as an emergency backup plan.

Any reason why you couldn't use a Z77 like this one?

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
Didn't know that chipset existed, mostly. That does seem to be easier to get a hold of, so I'll keep it in mind. Thanks.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003


Hello darkness,
my old friend

HMS Boromir posted:

I may have underestimated how hard it is to get my hands on a Z68 motherboard. I guess it's back to the plan of stick it out until CPUs improve a little more over Sandy Bridge than they have so far, with a 2500 as an emergency backup plan.

I have a Z68 board and 2500k I could sell you. I've been itching to upgrade and haven't really had the motivation to find a buyer.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

HMS Boromir posted:

I may have underestimated how hard it is to get my hands on a Z68 motherboard. I guess it's back to the plan of stick it out until CPUs improve a little more over Sandy Bridge than they have so far, with a 2500 as an emergency backup plan.

Also remember you don't need a Z-series board to overclock. The venerable P67 chipsets are still plentiful, cheap, and will do you just fine. Sure, you probably will miss out on that last 100-200Mhz of overclock, but :effort:

HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax

mayodreams posted:

I have a Z68 board and 2500k I could sell you. I've been itching to upgrade and haven't really had the motivation to find a buyer.

I'm most likely halfway across the globe from you and I tend to mull over this sort of decision for multiple months before pulling the trigger, but thanks.

DrDork posted:

Also remember you don't need a Z-series board to overclock. The venerable P67 chipsets are still plentiful, cheap, and will do you just fine. Sure, you probably will miss out on that last 100-200Mhz of overclock, but :effort:

Evidently there's a lot of things I didn't know about this. All the more reason to wait and do more research, I suppose. Thanks again for the info, everyone.

big shtick energy
May 27, 2004


A decent article on how the mobile SoC is becoming the focus of the industry over the high-performance CPU: https://medium.com/@magicsilicon/how-the-soc-is-displacing-the-cpu-49bc7503edab

Given Intels delays on the 14nm node and them pushing out their 10nm node, I wonder if samsung or tsmc will beat intel to shipping 10nm node chips in volume.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



What's the possibility my CPU is faulty? I'm running an 4790k which idles at 45C and under load the thing starts to cook itself and just today my rig blue screened and I got a "CPU Temperature Overload" message when it restarted. I haven't overclocked it and I've got a Noctua NH-L9I cooler with the fan set to Turbo in the BIOS so I can prevent that. I've read that this chip tends to run hot anyway but these temps are getting me worried.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.
Your heatsink isn't seated properly.

AVeryLargeRadish
Aug 19, 2011

I LITERALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO NOT BE A WEIRD SEXUAL CREEP ABOUT PREPUBESCENT ANIME GIRLS, READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE!!!

s.i.r.e. posted:

What's the possibility my CPU is faulty? I'm running an 4790k which idles at 45C and under load the thing starts to cook itself and just today my rig blue screened and I got a "CPU Temperature Overload" message when it restarted. I haven't overclocked it and I've got a Noctua NH-L9I cooler with the fan set to Turbo in the BIOS so I can prevent that. I've read that this chip tends to run hot anyway but these temps are getting me worried.

Try a repaste and reseating of the cooler. Also the NH-L9i isn't a very powerful cooler so I could see a 4790k throttling under heavy load with it.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!
Are there any good reviews out of the new mobile Skylake chips with benchmarks comparing them to Broadwell and Haswell? I've found some reviews of laptops with Skylake chips but none with good benchmarks or comparisons.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

AVeryLargeRadish posted:

Try a repaste and reseating of the cooler. Also the NH-L9i isn't a very powerful cooler so I could see a 4790k throttling under heavy load with it.

Wow, looked up the NH-L9i. it is not recommended for cpus with over 65w tdp. 84w tdp with turbo disabled is acceptable if you arn't doing 100% load. The 4790k is 88w and completely not recommended.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



AVeryLargeRadish posted:

Try a repaste and reseating of the cooler. Also the NH-L9i isn't a very powerful cooler so I could see a 4790k throttling under heavy load with it.

Don Lapre posted:

Wow, looked up the NH-L9i. it is not recommended for cpus with over 65w tdp. 84w tdp with turbo disabled is acceptable if you arn't doing 100% load. The 4790k is 88w and completely not recommended.

Jesus that's embarrassing so much for trusting my friends; welp, so now the new issue is what's a better cooler for my rig since my case will only accept a low profile? Or should I just say gently caress it and build in a case that accepts a large profile heatsink?

NeuralSpark
Apr 16, 2004

s.i.r.e. posted:

Jesus that's embarrassing so much for trusting my friends; welp, so now the new issue is what's a better cooler for my rig since my case will only accept a low profile? Or should I just say gently caress it and build in a case that accepts a large profile heatsink?

Pre-filled closed loop liquid setup if you've got the room for the radiator? I've got one in my Elite 130 and it's pretty tight between my 4770K and the power supply.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.

s.i.r.e. posted:

Jesus that's embarrassing so much for trusting my friends; welp, so now the new issue is what's a better cooler for my rig since my case will only accept a low profile? Or should I just say gently caress it and build in a case that accepts a large profile heatsink?

Have you tried the cooler it came with? It generally does the job. What are you using a 4790k in with such a small case? 8 thread htpc?

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Don Lapre posted:

Have you tried the cooler it came with? It generally does the job. What are you using a 4790k in with such a small case? 8 thread htpc?

The stock cooler gave me higher temps; it's a gaming rig built in an RVZ02 but I also stream and emulate GameCube/Wii/PS2 stuff which is more CPU intensive. The CPU was a gift, so I went balls deep when I picked it. I tend to stray away from the microwave look of most mITX builds hence my case pick. Seems like this build wasn't the best.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

Try the Freezer 11 LP? It's rated at up to 95w.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186060

Mr Chips
Jun 27, 2007
Whose arse do I have to blow smoke up to get rid of this baby?

DuckConference posted:

Given Intels delays on the 14nm node and them pushing out their 10nm node, I wonder if samsung or tsmc will beat intel to shipping 10nm node chips in volume.

If Intel's delays are technical, and not commercial, then surely the people who are 12-24 months behind them technically are going to have an even tougher time catching up.

LiquidRain
May 21, 2007

Watch the madness!

s.i.r.e. posted:

The stock cooler gave me higher temps; it's a gaming rig built in an RVZ02 but I also stream and emulate GameCube/Wii/PS2 stuff which is more CPU intensive. The CPU was a gift, so I went balls deep when I picked it. I tend to stray away from the microwave look of most mITX builds hence my case pick. Seems like this build wasn't the best.
The RVZ01 and 02 are practically made for closed loop liquid coolers. Another possibly silly suggestion (i.e. I have no idea if it'd work or not) is to set the CPU fan to exhaust instead of intake. I had a mini little HTPC with an AMD APU in it and it had massive heat issues until I took the CPU fan off the heatsink, screwed it onto the case a couple centimetres away, and pointed it to blow outwards. No more pockets of hot air.

LiquidRain fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Nov 23, 2015

VulgarandStupid
Aug 5, 2003
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, UNFUCKABLE AND A TOTAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO EVERYONE. DAE WANNA CUM PLAY WITH ME!?




LiquidRain posted:

The RVZ01 and 02 are practically made for closed loop liquid coolers.ir.

I don't see how this is possible since there's nowhere to mount them, assuming you use a full size graphics card.

Try reversing the fan on the Noctua cooler, see if that helps.

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sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



LiquidRain posted:

The RVZ01 and 02 are practically made for closed loop liquid coolers.

The RVZ01 can definitely do a closed-loop set-up but I can't image how it'd be possible in the 02, there's literally no room to route the pipes or even a spot to mount a radiator and fan.

VulgarandStupid posted:

Try reversing the fan on the Noctua cooler, see if that helps.

I'll give this a shot. edit: Didn't work, the screws aren't long enough to mount the other way and the addition screws the heatsink came with are too long. The way the fan comes mounted the screw holes are recessed in the plastic so when you flip it over it doesn't go all the way through.

sigher fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Nov 23, 2015

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