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My Ballot: Edmonds Griffey, Jr. Edgar Mussina Raines Schilling Sheffield Mike Sweeney No McGwire or Sosa because gently caress both the Cardinals and the Cubs Sweeney because I'm a huge homer and I want to see another Royal in the hall.
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Dec 17, 2015 22:48
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Exodor posted:My Ballot: If your ballot was real it would send SAS into a loving conniption fit.
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Dec 17, 2015 22:53
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Tony Phillips posted:If your ballot was real it would send SAS into a loving conniption fit. Somehow Edmonds does't inspire the same Cardinals hate in me as McGwire.
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Dec 17, 2015 22:54
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If you think about it no one should get votes their first time on the ballot I can't see a problem with this
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Dec 17, 2015 22:57
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Well, excuse me. I thought the was thread where we role-play sports writers.
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Dec 18, 2015 04:57
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Mr. Fix It posted:Well, excuse me. I thought the was thread where we role-play sports writers.  IcePhoenix posted:So what is the SAS MLB Hall of Fame Ballot? Well, every year the BWAA votes on the MLB Hall of Fame, and every year we watch as they inevitably gently caress it up. With all the talk, I'd like to see who we would put into the hall. I'm going to keep track of this through multiple years, so when we induct players and the writers don't, they won't appear on the next ballot (and vice versa). I also changed the rules a bit, because the BBWA is dumb. If that's how you want to do your ballot though, then you do you  At least I understand why you used that reasoning.
IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Dec 18, 2015 |
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Dec 18, 2015 05:07
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If your intent was to role-play a sports writer you should have included a vote for Eckstein or a blank ballot.  It's stupid that it's a legitimate belief among the voters that people should be left off ballots as if it were a hazing ritual for non "inner circle" HoFers.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:10
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On the positive side we're up to 64 ballots cast so hopefully we're going to pass last year before the final push (there were a good amount of ballots cast in the last couple days last year)
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Dec 18, 2015 05:12
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Legitimate question: is "He's not a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer" a better or worse reason to leave off Edmonds than "gently caress the cardinals and angels"? I've thought more about it, and I'll probably never vote for Edmonds, btw.
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Dec 18, 2015 05:31
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Frankly, I move that all the whoops I forgot edmonds please add him votes be stricken from the SAS voting record. Really? 8 people in a row "forgot" to put Jim Edmonds on a ballot?
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Dec 18, 2015 17:44
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Well I think it was more a case of dismissing him out of hand at first since he's not really spoken of as a hall of fame caliber player for the most part and then reconsidering after seeing a lot of people here vote for him/talk about his qualifications and taking a second look at his career numbers than actually straight up "forgetting him".
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Dec 18, 2015 17:49
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Unless it's the difference between falling off the ballot or staying on, I'm probably only going to add the Sheffield votes because that was me legit loving up and leaving him out of the OP. Also we're up to 65 responses and last year had a late rush on the last couple days so we might break 100 votes 
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Dec 18, 2015 18:02
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Jim Edmonds Ken Griffey Jr. Edgar Martinez Mark McGwire Mike Mussina Tim Raines Gary Sheffield Sammy Sosa Billy Wagner no curt schilling because gently caress him
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Dec 18, 2015 18:15
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Zamboni Jesus posted:no curt schilling because gently caress him
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Dec 18, 2015 18:41
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Everblight posted:Serious question: Is OJ Simpson a football hall-of-famer? yeah, but I suspect that would not be true if he were up for vote today instead of pre-murder.
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Dec 18, 2015 18:47
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10 days left and we've matched our vote total from last year 
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Dec 21, 2015 14:56
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bawfuls posted:I pretty much agree with all of this. I'm fine with the bar for relievers being high. My ballot is exactly the same as this guy's. I waffled on Edgar and Sheffield both and drew the line between them. Still not sure I made the right call but eh, gently caress Gary Sheffield anyway. While looking through Edgar's career I noticed how hilariously bad the Silver Slugger voting was. In 1996 Edgar hit .327/.464/.595 and they gave it to Molitor (.341/.390/.468). Ohhhh, batting average! Shiny!  Then in 1998 Edgar hit .322/.429/.565 and they gave it to loving Jose Canseco (.237/.318/.518). Ohhhh, home runs! SHINY!  And then of course there was 1999, the year Rafael Palmeiro won the silver slugger at DH and the gold glove at 1B. 
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Dec 21, 2015 15:41
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I voted for Trammell and Hoffman but i decided once and for all i'm NOT a small hall guy. Left off Jim Edmonds, voted for Sheffield. Also in our day and age i think we have to vote in some relievers. They are very important and are no longer simply starters who failed and are moved to the bullpen. That era ended long ago.
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Dec 21, 2015 15:54
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Eric the Mauve posted:And then of course there was 1999, the year Rafael Palmeiro won the silver slugger at DH and the gold glove at 1B. This is my favorite one. chilihead posted:Also in our day and age i think we have to vote in some relievers. They are very important and are no longer simply starters who failed and are moved to the bullpen. That era ended long ago.  Trying to figure out where to set their bar is hard, though.
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Dec 21, 2015 16:09
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I dunno, we still live in a world where Wade Davis fails as a starter for years and then moves to the bullpen and instantly becomes an untouchable badass, so I guess I'm still a bit skeptical that relievers are not still simply starters who failed are moved to the bullpen. And if even an asskicking reliever provides more value in 70 innings than a good starter provides in 200, none of the statistical value models are yet able to find it. e: Like just for a quick example even Mariano tops out at 5.0 WAR and has four other seasons over 4. Even Jack Morris tops that. I guess the argument is "Relief Pitcher has been a legitimate distinct and important position for 40 years now and the best relief pitchers should be in the Hall of Fame or else the Hall will be lacking an important element of how the game was played." I go back and forth on it. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 16:20
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Rose Griffy Edgar
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Dec 21, 2015 20:41
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chilihead posted:I voted for Trammell and Hoffman but i decided once and for all i'm NOT a small hall guy.
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Dec 21, 2015 21:28
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If it was so easy to turn a lovely starting pitcher into a great reliever, then wouldn't every team have 7 or 8 great relievers on the roster? And more in the minors?
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Dec 22, 2015 08:24
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Yeah I always thought the whole "relievers are just lovely starting pitchers" thing was overblown. I mean if that's the case you could just as easily say you shouldn't vote for any corner fielding position because they're just lovely CF/SS/2B/catchers. It just seems an overreaction to a lot of the emphasis that's been given to closers in baseball the last couple decades or so.
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Dec 22, 2015 10:24
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I would make the case that definitely K-Rod and probably Joe Nathan will belong in the Hall of Fame after their career ends if Hoffman does. They both have career ERA+ much higher than Hoffman and K-Rod will probably pass Hoffman's career innings pitched. Nathan probably won't make it to 1000 innings pitched as a reliever but he's got like 750 and his ERA+ is brought down by 100+ innings of poor starts. Neither one will retire with nearly the number of saves that Hoffman has but they will approach or pass his career innings pitched and should finish with ERA+ above his, barring collapse over a large number of innings.
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Dec 22, 2015 17:16
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Nathan's 2004-2009 were completely absurd but I don't think you can put a guy in off of six years.
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Dec 22, 2015 17:43
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IcePhoenix posted:Nathan's 2004-2009 were completely absurd but I don't think you can put a guy in off of six years. Especially considering how epically he collapsed after that. There wasn't a real gradual decline iirc. He went from lights out to a tire fire in the span of a season.
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Dec 22, 2015 19:00
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Popete posted:Seeing a few ballots that have McGwire and forego Sosa. a 128 OPS+ corner outfielder does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
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Dec 23, 2015 04:53
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Paul Zuvella posted:a 128 OPS+ corner outfielder does not belong in the Hall of Fame. let's not put Ichiro in the hall either
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Dec 23, 2015 05:29
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If you are going to put Sosa in, I feel that it has to be for narrative/Big Hall reasons at this point. Fred McGriff was a better hitter overall, but he doesn't generate remotely the buzz. And I dont know if Sosa's running/glove covers the value gap from good to great even if it might put him ahead of guys like McGriff.
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Dec 23, 2015 14:59
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If you could split Rickey Henderson in two, you’d have two 127 OPS+ corner outfielders who don't belong in the Hall of Fame.
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Dec 23, 2015 18:32
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3DHouseofBeef posted:If you are going to put Sosa in, I feel that it has to be for narrative/Big Hall reasons at this point. Fred McGriff was a better hitter overall, but he doesn't generate remotely the buzz. And I dont know if Sosa's running/glove covers the value gap from good to great even if it might put him ahead of guys like McGriff. His peak was insane and he has some of the traditional numbers that make a good case for a big hall guy.
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Dec 23, 2015 19:21
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I voted for fourteen. Jesus Christ. All the usual suspects are on my ballot, as well as both relievers - the idea that only one RP per generation is good enough seems insane to me. Imagine if we held other positions to that standard. Jeff Kent is maybe a bit of a homer vote but I don't think it's a travesty for the all time HR leader at 2B to go into the Hall of Fame. And I threw Jason Kendall a pity vote, I mean he's not a Hall of Famer but the guy averaged 140 games a year over a 15-year career as a loving catcher, hit .300 five times and narrowly missed several other times, and is the 18th best catcher of all time by WAR, although a lot of that comes from defense and who the hell knows about catcher dWAR (not me that's for sure). While we're talking about relief pitchers and the HoF, would you guys put in Kimbrel and/or Chapman if they keep doing their thing for another 5-6 years?
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Dec 27, 2015 20:22
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The Pussy Boss posted:While we're talking about relief pitchers and the HoF, would you guys put in Kimbrel and/or Chapman if they keep doing their thing for another 5-6 years?
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Dec 27, 2015 20:32
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The Pussy Boss posted:While we're talking about relief pitchers and the HoF, would you guys put in Kimbrel and/or Chapman if they keep doing their thing for another 5-6 years? Yeah absolutely. That kind of dominance for 10-ish years is an easy case.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:01
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The Pussy Boss posted:I voted for fourteen. Jesus Christ. All the usual suspects are on my ballot, as well as both relievers - the idea that only one RP per generation is good enough seems insane to me. Imagine if we held other positions to that standard. Jeff Kent is maybe a bit of a homer vote but I don't think it's a travesty for the all time HR leader at 2B to go into the Hall of Fame. Relievers aren't held to that standard at all. For players that played a bulk of their career in the 1970s and later, as many relievers have been elected as any other single position other than starting pitcher. Relievers - 4 2nd Base - 4 SS - 4 Considering that Hoffman likely will make it, and that Rivera is definitely going to, relievers are about to pull ahead. I'm a big hall guy and don't really care if guys like Sutter and Hoffman are in there, but if anything relievers are already over represented. And Jeff Kent has a way better case than Hoffman. Edit - the more I look at it, there may or may not have been some finagling going on as far as position counts, but here's the article that I got that from. http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/67273/one-more-crazy-note-about-relief-pitchers-and-the-hall-of-fame The point that relivers aren't held to a higher standard at all stands though as far as I can tell. Tony Phillips fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 21:09
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Votedfor everyone but schilling and eckstein, so basically just anti-votes for those 2
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Dec 28, 2015 14:53
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The Pussy Boss posted:While we're talking about relief pitchers and the HoF, would you guys put in Kimbrel and/or Chapman if they keep doing their thing for another 5-6 years? If Kimbrel keeps going at his current level, he would be better than Rivera, so yes.
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Dec 28, 2015 16:26
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I want to vote for Shawn Green and Hideo Nomo.
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Dec 28, 2015 16:45
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Anyone that doesn't vote for Alan Trammell is a bad voter. 
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Dec 28, 2015 23:21
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