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Abner Cadaver II posted:Ross Perot did an amazingly good job of splitting the right-wing vote. Most analyses show Ross Perot's voters were pretty evenly split between people who would have otherwise voted D or R.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:00
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The shine from what were seen as foreign policy successes (dissolution of the Eastern Bloc, overthrow of Noriega, victory in Kuwait) was wearing off just as the US was entering a recession.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:04
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Abner Cadaver II posted:Ross Perot did an amazingly good job of splitting the right-wing vote. He siphoned off a lot of potential Clinton supporters - analysis shows that Perot didn't cost HW the election. The economy did.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:06
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Spiffster posted:Praying that trump splits the party again this year. NAFTA and a recession hitting toward the end of his presidency also didn't help. There were also a lot of people not happy with how the Gulf War was handled either. It was a pretty big poo poo storm all around.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:31
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HW was basically a lot of the same problems as W but without a 9/11 to keep him in office.
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Jan 4, 2016 03:39
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 C'mon! Bill went on Arsenio! AND also on the MTV to talk about his underpants! Election -> Bag! [B. Clinton's first inauguration parade is the only one I went to. They let government workers watch from their offices (which GOPers lent to donors as favors in previous years) and my mother's was right across from the White House. ]
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Jan 4, 2016 03:44
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Early 90s were a bit hazy for me, being like eight years old, but correct if I'm wrong in saying that Bush the Elder also wasn't even half as charismatic as Reagan and Bill Clinton is, well, Bill Clinton. Imagine he cleaned up the youth vote like Obama did, although maybe not the same magnitude of turnout. Also covering the 1992 election is great and I'll throw links in the OP.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:04
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This thread is always at its best when people bring up actually interesting stuff, like the artist retrospectives from previous threads, where someone even posted about Dr Seuss' political cartooning career, or like the Jamaican, South African or Portuguese (?) cartoonists we occasionally got from local posters. It's a shame that's all buried in archived 1,500-page threads, never to be seen again.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:27
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Rorus Raz posted:Early 90s were a bit hazy for me, being like eight years old, but correct if I'm wrong in saying that Bush the Elder also wasn't even half as charismatic as Reagan and Bill Clinton is, well, Bill Clinton. Imagine he cleaned up the youth vote like Obama did, although maybe not the same magnitude of turnout. Wikipedia has the overall turnout of 1992 as 55% and 2008 at 58% Holy hell those are pretty drat low for elections.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:34
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Cabinet posted:Wikipedia has the overall turnout of 1992 as 55% and 2008 at 58% People don't vote because they think the system is broken which causes the system to never change which leads people to conclude the system is broken and not vote.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:44
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There was a twitter thing going on where people were asked why they didn't vote (I think the hashtag was WhyIDidn'tVote or something). Most of the answers I saw were a variation of "I don't care about politics. It's boring."
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Jan 4, 2016 04:53
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I guess it doesn't help that Americans have a super unrepresentative two party system but jeez, i thought turnout would be a little bigger than that.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:00
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If you're interested in election politics, the Whistlestop podcast is really really good. It's hosted by John Dickerson (who also hosts Face the Nation), and recently had an episode on the '92 election.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:34
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Rorus Raz posted:Early 90s were a bit hazy for me, being like eight years old, but correct if I'm wrong in saying that Bush the Elder also wasn't even half as charismatic as Reagan and Bill Clinton is, well, Bill Clinton. Imagine he cleaned up the youth vote like Obama did, although maybe not the same magnitude of turnout. GHWB had negligible charisma. He was also saddled with the image of a spineless, ineffectual wimp during the '80s, and never really shook it. (Unfair as it was, since he did serve with distinction in World War II.) The only reasons he got elected in the first place were a) he still had some of the old Reagan magic clinging to him in 1988 and b) Michael Dukakis was a truly terrible candidate.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:41
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Cabinet posted:Wikipedia has the overall turnout of 1992 as 55% and 2008 at 58%
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Jan 4, 2016 05:43
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Cabinet posted:I guess it doesn't help that Americans have a super unrepresentative two party system but jeez, i thought turnout would be a little bigger than that. Doesn't the voter participation rate just measure the total number of voters against the total eligible US population without allowing for felons, immigrants and other groups who can't vote?
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Jan 4, 2016 06:30
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Jan 4, 2016 06:35
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Fulchrum posted:Doesn't the voter participation rate just measure the total number of voters against the total eligible US population without allowing for felons, immigrants and other groups who can't vote? I hope so. Otherwise it's fairly depressing when you think about it. I know people what are really into politics but never go to the polls. It's mind boggling. I used to put it off as the youth vote. But now we're in our 30s.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:35
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Jurgan posted:Most analyses show Ross Perot's voters were pretty evenly split between people who would have otherwise voted D or R. Really, the question isn't the overall split, it's just in those states that were close. TN, OH, NJ, NH, NV, MT, KY, GA, CO were all damned close and Perot got 2-5x the margin of Clinton's victory in them. That's not quite 101 EV (Clinton won with 370) but it makes for an interesting argument. Certainly the vote would have been MUCH closer without Perot.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:43
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GHWB was pretty dismissive of the youth vote, from what little I remember of '92.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:14
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itskage posted:I hope so. Otherwise it's fairly depressing when you think about it. Disallowing for the 26th amendment and how hard it is to get teenagers to do loving anything, the voter participation rate in the US has held pretty steady since about 1828. Jonas Albrecht posted:GHWB was pretty dismissive of the youth vote, from what little I remember of '92. And the Simpsons. And Dan Quayle picked a fight with Murphy Brown. And both got their asses handed to them as I recall
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Jan 4, 2016 07:28
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ToxicSlurpee posted:NAFTA and a recession hitting toward the end of his presidency also didn't help. There were also a lot of people not happy with how the Gulf War was handled either. It was a pretty big poo poo storm all around. What? I don't remember anyone complaining about Gulf War I who wasn't already a hard-core Democrat. He had 91% approval ratings just after the war, for gently caress's sake. He was mostly done in because the election was right at the end of a major recession that he reacted to mostly by shrugging. Conservatives blamed the recession on his taxes and were angry that he wasn't the true blue right-winger they wanted, so a lot of Republicans voted for Pat Buchanan in the primaries and stayed home in the general election because Bush wasn't willing to be as anti-homosexual as they wanted or didn't react to the L.A. riots by sending in troops to bust some heads. Bush generally came across as being uncaring and uninterested during the general campaign - there was a famous moment in the debate where the cameras caught him checking his watch as if he couldn't wait for the thing to be over - it's right at the start of this clip. Compared to Bill "I feel your pain" Clinton, who was young, energetic, and obviously interested in solving their problems, he really didn't have much of a chance.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:35
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You'll still be making these predictions in mid-March, you hack.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:43
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Eschers Basement posted:Bush generally came across as being uncaring and uninterested during the general campaign - there was a famous moment in the debate where the cameras caught him checking his watch as if he couldn't wait for the thing to be over - it's right at the start of this clip. Compared to Bill "I feel your pain" Clinton, who was young, energetic, and obviously interested in solving their problems, he really didn't have much of a chance. The Whistlestop podcast has an episode that breaks down this moment and this particular debate really well. He didn't actually check his watch until some unrelated point after Clinton's "I feel your pain" response, but it was cut differently in the news bites after the fact, and everyone remembers him doing it while Clinton was empathizing with a voter.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:44
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Jonas Albrecht posted:GHWB was pretty dismissive of the youth vote, from what little I remember of '92. I remember that while Clinton was appearing on the Arsenio Hall show and doing MTV stuff that appealed to the young folks of the time, GHWB was resolutely against the idea of doing anything like that until the very end of the campaign, when he agreed to let MTV News' politics-nerd reporter Tabitha Soren interview him, but only while they stood on the tail of his whistle-stop tour train speeding through rural Wisconsin while he looked like he was in physical pain from having to talk to her and he kept interrupting her every few words I wish I could find a video of that interview, it made him look awful. Here's a look at what the MTV 1992 political coverage tended to look like (this specific episode was after Jerry Brown managed to win a few primaries): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQyuJ4t8kRw&t=37s (Note: the smartass red-and-purple captions about Frodo or whatever that pop up here and there were added by the guy who uploaded this to YouTube) tacodaemon fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 08:00
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Eschers Basement posted:What? I don't remember anyone complaining about Gulf War I who wasn't already a hard-core Democrat. He had 91% approval ratings just after the war, for gently caress's sake. While I agree with all of the above, there was some anger at the end of Gulf War I - GHWB was seen to have essentially left the job unfinished. Saddam was still there, after all, and all he seemed interested in doing was making the occasional speech. Now, this was around my freshman year of high school, so it's not like I was plugged in to the political hivemind or anything, but I was the kind of nerd who paid attention to this stuff, and yeah, there was some anger. It's just that it was nowhere near the deciding factor of that election.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:06
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If only he invaded Iraq. We could have stopped saddam before he did 911.
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Jan 4, 2016 08:24
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What was so awful about Dukakis?
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Jan 4, 2016 08:54
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Samovar posted:What was so awful about Dukakis? TANK Sorry. I don't actually know. Carry on.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:02
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Samovar posted:What was so awful about Dukakis? All I can remember from that Robot Chicken smurfs thing was that he was 'outdated', but seeing as I'm a dumbass who drunkposts, take that with a grain of salt. WarpedNaba fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 09:05
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WarpedNaba posted:All I can remember from that Robot Chicken smurfs thing was that he was 'outdated', but seeing as he's a republican, that ain't saying much.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:12
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Samovar posted:What was so awful about Dukakis? While driving in that tank he actually had his pants on the ground, pants on the ground, lookin' like a fool with his pants on the ground. Or at least we can't rule out the possibility.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:12
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Samovar posted:What was so awful about Dukakis? He was the target of a negative campaign by the HW Bush camp in Bush's effort to lose his image of being a "wimp", and in the event Dukakis was unable to defend himself effectively and came off as an archetypal ivory-tower liberal. For example, Dukakis was attacked for his position on prisoner pardons and furloughs while he was Governor. It was a personal, emotional appeal, but his responses were always just speaking in broad, general terms. During a debate, he was questioned about his opposition to the death penalty "even if it was your own wife that was raped and murdered" and he still engaged the topic purely academically. It was soon Dukakis that was getting the image of a wimp, and he tried to return fire with a photo-op of him riding an Abrams tank, and the whole thing just made him look so ridiculous that it's always been regarded as the moment his campaign was sunk.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:For example, Dukakis was attacked for his position on prisoner pardons and furloughs while he was Governor. It was a personal, emotional appeal, but his responses were always just speaking in broad, general terms. During a debate, he was questioned about his opposition to the death penalty "even if it was your own wife that was raped and murdered" and he still engaged the topic purely academically. I didn't realise the Simpsons were making such direct references in the episode where Sideshow Bob runs for mayor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vey7GKNpl4Q quote:Birch Barlow: Mayor Quimby, you are well known for your lenient stance on crime, but suppose for a second that your house was ransacked by thugs, your family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob.... fake edit: I just found this actual Bush advert they were riffing on, I'm learning so much about cartoons today
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Jan 4, 2016 09:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:It was soon Dukakis that was getting the image of a wimp, and he tried to return fire with a photo-op of him riding an Abrams tank, and the whole thing just made him look so ridiculous that it's always been regarded as the moment his campaign was sunk. You could say it tanked. <dons sunglasses, plays The Who> On the other hand, Bush Sr didn't lack for bad support himself. People ignored Dan Quayle in 1988 because they didn't know who he was, but by 1992 it was obvious that he was an illiterate idiot who made Bush Jr look statesmanlike. This hurt the elder Bush's campaign in the same way Sarah Palin hurt that of John McCain, with the bonus that Quayle already was one septuagenarian's faltering heartbeat away from the Oval Office. (Yes, I know Bush wasn't 70 in 1992, but he would have been by the end of his second term.)
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Jan 4, 2016 11:55
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Jan 4, 2016 12:02
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Part of me rolls my eyes a little every time Pope shoehorns Abbott into a cartoon these days, but most of me just gets really happy because that caricature never gets old
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Jan 4, 2016 12:22
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tacodaemon posted:I wish I could find a video of that interview, it made him look awful. Yeah, it's silly how hard this is to find. You'd think MTV would have it in an archive somewhere. It's great though, he's as grumpy as present day Harrison Ford being asked about Star Wars.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:25
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 I find myself just staring at the upper panel. This man has been professionally drawing cartoons for over 40 years.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:30
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SgtScruffy posted:Part of me rolls my eyes a little every time Pope shoehorns Abbott into a cartoon these days, but most of me just gets really happy because that caricature never gets old Part of the reason he's in this one is that Briggs (the hungover chap on the top) and Dutton (the baby with the mobile) are both Abbott supporters Turnbull didn't get rid of, and who have both hosed up massively in the past few days.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:33
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