|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:xeons are also often faster + cheaper than the equivalent HEDT chip in SKUs, this kind of thing isn't really new Even with a heavy dose of salt with whether this is actually going to happen, I just have to wonder how well Broadwell-EP's production is going if Intel thinks it might be confident enough to release a chip specced like this. Literally their highest-clocked x86 part, ever. The number is very coincidental with one-upping AMD's FX-9590 by 100 MHz, even though nobody in their right mind markets processors that way anymore. Nobody nowadays could be stupid enough to fall for the clock speed advertisement without looking at IPC, performance per watt, etc. first, right? ...Right?
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 06:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:34 |
|
|
I think if you got a stable 5.1 GHz Xeon you win for clocks, IPC, and power consumption all in one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 07:20
|
|
|
blowfish posted:Our lab is currently approaching the point where we have to consolidate all XP boxes into an old equipment pool as replacements for mission critical/expensive lab equipment that won't run on anything newer. Our office PCs are just starting to get upgraded to Windows 7 Our instruments will only run with the of it came with. If you need parts of a new computer God forbid you get to payout the nose for an identical uni.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 08:57
|
|
.
|
Generic Monk posted:How legit is play-asia? Seems to be the only site offering the 6700k for halfway reasonable prices. Presumably I'll get stuck with a load of import duties, right? (UK) Unless they misdeclare the value on the box you will (+12 quid gently caress you tax by parcelforce for the service of collecting import duties). Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:Nobody nowadays could be stupid enough to fall for the clock speed advertisement without looking at IPC, performance per watt, etc. first, right? FattyNerdsTM, FattyNerdsTM never change. That said, I wonder if this will basically make overclocking pointless or if it will be possible to overclock broadwell to like 7 GHz
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 10:52
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Boiled Water posted:Our instruments will only run with the of it came with. If you need parts of a new computer God forbid you get to payout the nose for an identical uni. Are they of the five or more figures expensive kind (Never not knock out a £200000 instrument for a week by crashing the windows 2000 shitbox attached to it)?
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 10:56
|
|
|
Yes! Most are hyphenated instruments. Each letter is a million dkk, the hyphen around 0.5 mill.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 11:35
|
|
|
Boiled Water posted:Yes! Most are hyphenated instruments. Each letter is a million dkk, the hyphen around 0.5 mill. lol Thank god we only have to maintain the moderately expensive outdated stuff and not the super expensive outdated stuff in our own lab, we just pay an hourly rate to the university imaging centre for electron microscopy or go annoy some chemists to let us use their GC-MS and stuff. I will never stop cracking up about how the ~custom computers~ that cost tens of thousands of pounds to replace driving each of these are blatantly just HP shitboxes with an added PCI card to interface with the instrument. I think the most advanced SEM in the world that isn't some custom built monstrosity (as of mid 2014 when it finally got bought to replace the win2000 driven piece of crap) runs on XP by the way. suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Jan 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 12:17
|
|
|
blowfish posted:lol Chances are the reason it runs on XP is that is the last OS that whatever custom PCI hardware cards they use don't work under Vista/7/8/10, and the source code to the hardware driver is long gone, so it's XP or nothing. Unless you can use very expensive software wrappers around it to fool it into working with a new OS. The company I work for sells similar equipment, and in many cases we're in the same boat. One system uses a custom PCI card that has drivers written for it in the Windows NT era.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 20:27
|
|
|
Speaking of maintaining old systems in the face of progress, is it true that new Skylake processors reserve a significantly larger chuck of memory for hardware for 32-bit OS's than the predecessors from Intel? In a 32-bit OS environment (Windows 7/Windows 10) I'm used to seeing 3.4 Gb available out of 4. But on our new Skylake-CPU test systems w/32 bit Windows from Dell (64-bit OS is a no go due to legacy hardware drivers) it's only able to utilize 2 Gb out of 4.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
jumba posted:Speaking of maintaining old systems in the face of progress, is it true that new Skylake processors reserve a significantly larger chuck of memory for hardware for 32-bit OS's than the predecessors from Intel? In a 32-bit OS environment (Windows 7/Windows 10) I'm used to seeing 3.4 Gb available out of 4. But on our new Skylake-CPU test systems w/32 bit Windows from Dell (64-bit OS is a no go due to legacy hardware drivers) it's only able to utilize 2 Gb out of 4. How much memory does your video card have?
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2016 23:38
|
|
|
blowfish posted:That said, I wonder if this will basically make overclocking pointless or if it will be possible to overclock broadwell to like 7 GHz Assuming that it's only going to be a Xeon part and that what's been said about its specs is accurate (it's half of an 8-core, but the TDP is over 160W), it's likely that this is just Intel catering to niche professional users willing to pay a lot of money for what amounts to a factory overclocked part. It'll have been binned for and validated at that speed, so not actually overclocked, but it might be a case where Intel chose to relax requirements in ways that allow the silicon to be pushed harder (allow higher voltages, reduce max die junction temperature, etc). Stuff they would not do in a SKU destined for an ordinary server or desktop, but which is OK in the context of customers willing to pay quite a lot to get a fully validated extra GHz. This wouldn't be the first time they've done it either. Last time I heard about a similar Intel CPU, it was leaked info about a semi-private-label (did not appear on ark.intel.com) over-4GHz Xeon several years ago -- at a time when, IIRC, all the rest were well under 4 GHz. It was thought to be targeted at the high frequency trading market, which made sense as they're big-budget customers willing to pay a lot to cut a few more microseconds of latency off their trading decisions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 10:18
|
|
|
jumba posted:Speaking of maintaining old systems in the face of progress, is it true that new Skylake processors reserve a significantly larger chuck of memory for hardware for 32-bit OS's than the predecessors from Intel? In a 32-bit OS environment (Windows 7/Windows 10) I'm used to seeing 3.4 Gb available out of 4. But on our new Skylake-CPU test systems w/32 bit Windows from Dell (64-bit OS is a no go due to legacy hardware drivers) it's only able to utilize 2 Gb out of 4. Sounds like you aren't enabling PAE on the new systems maybe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 12:28
|
|
|
Windows client doesn't do PAE on 32-bit anymore. Hasn't since XP SP2. 32-bit Server does, and PAE is a literal requirement to enter 64-bit long mode, so that one is a given. There's a highly unofficial kernel patch for Windows 7 to enable PAE but ymmv on using unofficial kernel patches in a production environment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
Have windows clients ever done PAE? As far as i know that was a Server 2k3 thing but XP was always limited to ~3-3.5 gb in 32 bit. E: maybe try the enable 3gb switch?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
On the Windows 10 for Skylake on front, I know the update of Windows 10 is still a bit slow since it and even 8.1 are still relatively new OS'es compared to the XP/7 days, but why would anyone really want to build a brand spanking new system with the latest hardware, and then run an out of date OS on it? Outside of the usual people that can't get used to a new start menu (Windows 8 really wasn't that bad and flowed well once you got used to it, then 8.1 made it a bit more mouse friendly, while destroying the consistency of the "new" interface), you do also get the latest optimizations and abilities to work with the latest hardware in the best way possible. I know for a fact my old now 3930K ran a lot better in Windows 8 then it did in Windows 7 because 8+ was able to identify the difference between a physical and virtual core which Win7 could not. This not only was good for the Intel Hyper threaded group, but also especially for those that got burned by AMD Bulldozer with their Core "Modules' in the design of that 8 sort of core chip. It gave them at least a 10% boost which was better than nothing. You can always virtualize an older OS if you need to for whatever reason outside of the hardware for research stuff you guys mention. Hell I knew of labs that run on DOS/W3.1 stuff because of the old school timing of the hardware that can't be emulated or run on newer hardware since the drivers were written to connect to the devise directly. Keeping that kind of crap working has to be tough when someone forgets to dust it off one every 3 years or so. But for mainstream PC users, Windows 10 will be the OS going into the future like it or not. I do just wish we had better control over updates still, at least for drivers, but outside of that 10 seems to be reasonably good on everything else I have ran it on so far.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 19:20
|
|
|
Lowen SoDium posted:How much memory does your video card have? It's not using a video card, but rather the built in video chip. The previous Dell's we used (Haswell, Ivy Bridge processors) also used the same setup (32 bit OS, built in video) with 4 Gb total memory and the system was still able to utilize 3.4 Gb of memory overall, rather than the 2 Gb I am seeing now with a Skylake processor. It could be that it's an issue specific to Dell, I was just curious if anyone else was running a 32-bit OS with Skylake and what kind of memory utilization they were seeing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
jumba posted:Chances are the reason it runs on XP is that is the last OS that whatever custom PCI hardware cards they use don't work under Vista/7/8/10, and the source code to the hardware driver is long gone, so it's XP or nothing. Unless you can use very expensive software wrappers around it to fool it into working with a new OS. The company I work for sells similar equipment, and in many cases we're in the same boat. One system uses a custom PCI card that has drivers written for it in the Windows NT era. I once spent a fun month first getting the toolkit used for our custom PCI card driver to compile at all using our current compiler + current winSDK, then porting it to x64, and then porting the driver as well. The company that originally made the toolkit went under 10+ years ago. I completely understand not wanting to do that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
EdEddnEddy posted:... but why would anyone really want to build a brand spanking new system with the latest hardware, and then run an out of date OS on it? Paranoia. Windows 10 telemetry is no more than any previous Windows beta but some idiots making things up to scare people blew any sense of rationality out of the water. Not to mention that these "privacy conscious" people are too daft to hit the "customize settings" button and just blindly smack Express Settings, which is a "do everything that Microsoft recommends" option. But no, it's an OS problem. Users are innocent. Microsoft is the devil. We are all forced to use Windows 98 and IE4. It is the era of toastytech and AMD CPUs. Dehumanize yourself and face to Bill.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
isn't 8.1 actually more invasive than 10 in the telemetry since it doesn't have explicit and stringent exclusions that windows 10's has
Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jan 18, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
Anime Schoolgirl posted:isn't 8.1 actually more invasive than 10 in the telemetry since it doesn't have explicit and stringent exclusions that windows 10's has I don't know if it came that way, but I DO know that the telemetry stuff from 10 got backported to 7 and 8.1, that even vigilance won't help you because of Microsoft's habit of reissuing KB updates (like GWX), and that they have no fine control like they have in 10. So effectively probably yes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
Yeah, there's a lot more opt-out available in 10, and explicit statements on what's collected. You can straight up turn telemetry off in Enterprise with a GPO.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 21:36
|
|
|
So driver support on an entirely new OS is 100% perfect? There's no legitimate reason to prefer a software stack that's been proven to work with whatever goofy devices are floating around a particular lab or office, paranoia about telemetry is the only possible reason to avoid that upgrade.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
JawnV6 posted:So driver support on an entirely new OS is 100% perfect? There's no legitimate reason to prefer a software stack that's been proven to work with whatever goofy devices are floating around a particular lab or office, paranoia about telemetry is the only possible reason to avoid that upgrade. I mean it's more similar to W7 than W7 is to XP, so it's not entirely new.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
JawnV6 posted:So driver support on an entirely new OS is 100% perfect? There's no legitimate reason to prefer a software stack that's been proven to work with whatever goofy devices are floating around a particular lab or office, paranoia about telemetry is the only possible reason to avoid that upgrade. In my experience it's rock solid. This isn't the XP->Vista era anymore; we're not dealing with a majorly changed driver model and framework being tripped up on old code (though it is closer internally to Windows 8.1 than Windows 7, or 8 for that matter -- 8.1 introduced a new user-mode driver framework that is designed for moving kernel-mode drivers out of kernel space). Yes, if you're running sketchy bespoke unsigned drivers with crap code quality in test mode and it barely holds together on Windows 7 then there's no guarantee it's going to work on Windows 10. But in that case it's probably a miracle it works on Windows 7. I've honestly had better performance in Windows 10 than I had in Windows 7. Better network throughput, lower temperatures and more idle time, and all my software still works.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
Kazinsal posted:But in that case it's probably a miracle it works on Windows 7. My chest is heaves with sorrow that your workflows are so bereft of miracles.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 22:41
|
|
|
Exactly, Windows 7 Was great. A Big Step up from XP and Vista, (Even Vista was good coming from XP as long as you ran it on >1G RAM) but 8. 8.1 and 10 all run and work even better than 7 on newer hardware. One thing I am still a bit stick on with Windows 10 though, is even though they say it has lower requirements than say 8.1, I feel that the new graphics model they did for the OS interface runs like poo poo on some older hardware where 8/8.1's was quick and fast on pretty much anything. I understand the new GPU accelerated model is a much more modular design going forward, but the little bit (and sometimes bigger bit) of lag you get when you click the windows key and start typing to just find something local on the system can be a bit of a pain in the rear end sometimes when it hiccups and you have to wait for whatever Cortana system it's hanging on to catch up. It's much less apparent on newer/faster hardware, but on old laptops and such that I have tinkered with it on, it runs better in parts, and worse in others, my guess, due to the caching and other connected stuff it is offering. The only other thing I dislike is the forced drivers on really old hardware. The 2005 Toshiba I have does not like any newer synaptic touchpad driver but it insist it needs to install the latest one which breaks the side touch scrolling.  Still haven't found a solid way to disable that from happening yet. All the GPO editing seems to do diddly squat.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2016 22:47
|
|
|
EdEddnEddy posted:The only other thing I dislike is the forced drivers on really old hardware. The 2005 Toshiba I have does not like any newer synaptic touchpad driver but it insist it needs to install the latest one which breaks the side touch scrolling. This is Windows trying to outdo OSX and failing because the Windows ecosystem is full of lovely outdated drivers on special snowflake hardware.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:14
|
|
|
Is there a way to force Windows 10 to use the Start Screen and, on Winkey + S, bring up that nifty sidebar instead of the Start Menu?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:41
|
|
|
PerrineClostermann posted:Is there a way to force Windows 10 to use the Start Screen and, on Winkey + S, bring up that nifty sidebar instead of the Start Menu? You can full-screen the Start menu in PC Settings > Personalization > Start with the "Use Start full screen" toggle (fifth from top). The Charms bar is gone. We have a Windows 10 thread, and it's mostly good-faith.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 02:56
|
|
|
Sir Unimaginative posted:You can full-screen the Start menu in PC Settings > Personalization > Start with the "Use Start full screen" toggle (fifth from top). Aww. I really liked that it came up on that command. I basically never use the start screen/menu these days.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 06:20
|
|
|
Kazinsal posted:Windows client doesn't do PAE on 32-bit anymore. Hasn't since XP SP2. 32-bit Server does, and PAE is a literal requirement to enter 64-bit long mode, so that one is a given. That's really surprising that PAE isn't used on 32-bit because Windows 8.1 or 10 32-bit will throw an error if you try to install them on processors without PAE. I tried with a Pentium M 725 and had to upgrade to a 760 or some such to get PAE support so I could upgrade from XP. ...at least, I think it was PAE. Ark says that both models only have 32-bit PAE support but I feel like there was some obscure detail like the 725 not even advertising support for the extensions where the 760 did or something like that. A bit of Googling indicates that it could also have been NX or SSE2 though. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Jan 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 15:58
|
|
|
That's where I get a little confused myself, because PAE is a requirement for NX. The NX bit is the uppermost bit of a page entry in PAE page tables. So, technically NX on 32-bit Windows uses PAE, but the extra physical address space isn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 16:31
|
|
|
As a product segmenting sort of thing, even though "non server" 32 bit versions of Windows for a long time have been able to use PAE, they've not been able to use PAE to get beyond a 4 GB limit. If you use PAE on some of the matching 32 bit Server versions, you can usually use more RAM - for instance: Windows XP 32 bit: 4 GB Windows XP 64 bit: 128 GB Windows Server 2003 Standard 32 bit: 4 GB Windows Server 2003 Enterprise or Datacenter 32 bit: 64 GB Windows Server 2003 SP1 Enterprise or Datacenter 64 bit: 1 TB (there is no 64 bit Server 2003 before SP1) Let's look at the Windows Vista generation (because that's the last time Windows Server has 32 bit): Windows Vista (except Starter) 32 bit: 4 GB Windows Vista Home Basic/Home Premium 64 bit: 8/16 GB Windows Vista Ultimate/Enterprise/Business 64 bit: 128 GB Windows Server 2008 Standard 32 bit: 4 GB Windows Server 2008 Datacenter or Enterprise 32 bit: 64 GB Windows Server 2008 Standard 64 bit: 32 GB Windows Server 2008 Datacenter or Enterprise 64 bit: 1 TB Here's the Microsoft page that lists all the official limits: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/li..._server_2003_r2
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 23:33
|
|
|
Now do VGA
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
Googled "application for monitoring CPU speed, temperature, fan speed" and downloaded HW Monitor from CPUID. It shows CPU fan at 100%, around 2000 RPM, when the cpu is more or less idle idle in Windows 10. That seems excessive. Core temperatures are at 35, 40, 30, 30 celsius. This is an i5 2500K. Thoughts? I'd like to reduce the fan speed/noise. PirateBob fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Jan 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2016 13:20
|
|
|
Dunno if this changed since the C2 days, but I had to enable automatic fan control in the BIOS, otherwise it'd run at 100% all the time. Asus used to call it QFan or something, could be different in your case anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Some motherboards have a CPU cooler header which is meant for a water pump and not a fan. Possible you are plugged into one of those by chance?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 03:09
|
|
|
slidebite posted:Some motherboards have a CPU cooler header which is meant for a water pump and not a fan. Possible you are plugged into one of those by chance? never heard of a waterpump header, I know 3pin case fan headers are fairly common, but they usually don't provide enough current for a pump and have a warning not to draw too much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:15
|
|
|
Ika posted:never heard of a waterpump header, I know 3pin case fan headers are fairly common, but they usually don't provide enough current for a pump and have a warning not to draw too much. I would imagine they would basically be the same, except one CAN draw more current, but if a fan is plugged into it should work fine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 17:34 |
|
|
Ika posted:never heard of a waterpump header, I know 3pin case fan headers are fairly common, but they usually don't provide enough current for a pump and have a warning not to draw too much. My Asus Z170-A has a water pump header, but I think it is meant for AIO coolers and not open loop.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:36
|
|