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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:First of all you have to understand that 40K is ridiculous. On the other hand, the answer of "just have some slaves do it" as a stop-gap turning into the permanent solution because WE'RE AT WAR DAMNIT, THERE'S NO TIME is pretty drat  And the third was the other thing I was thinking. Like, if these ships are still being manufactured (I think some are and some aren't?) then some forge world somewhere knows how to make it, although that forge world could be light years away and you might not even know they exist. Having the imperium be so mind bogglingly big kinda increases the odds people would just go "gently caress it" and make do.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:27
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Whether or not Ork tech is "real" is one of the worst, most boring, most inane conversations imaginable and yet it seems to come up in literally every thread that is remotely related to warhammer.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:28
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Is there a better way to aim torpedoes? Right click and drag to orient ships is cumbersome and wildly inaccurate, as in the ship won't accurately face the direction you tell it to. The only way I'm able to aim is to make them do a turn and then click at exactly the right time. Zaphod42 posted:I guess the idea is the gun technology is just too sacred and no techpriests want to try meddling with it, but that just seems kinda dumb to me. Admittedly slave gangs moving ammunition on board a ship does get pretty silly. It depends a lot on the individual writer because 40k has very little enforced canonicity. Still, I'd rationalize that as an unusual case where like the reload mechanism of a gun broke, someone on the upper decks notes 'hmm that one gun reloads slower now', sends someone to check it out and finds the locals have already sorted out a working system. Then it just doesn't get fixed because they don't care or they don't have the resources or know-how onboard. This article about a polymer plant nobody really understood anymore and the problems the company ran into when they wanted to build another is fascinating to me. In reality you could make a new design if you were so inclined, and the Imperium too does come up with new designs for things but it's not exactly encouraged. Basically take that article and add in a religious belief that new things are at best highly suspicious, and you get the Imperium.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:34
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:That collective effect is also why orks can survive traversing the Warp using a space hulk; rather than use Gellar fields they just set up big spiky edifices that scare the Warp into letting them through. Of course no proper ork would ever mind a daemonic invasion; that's a good fight right there. My favorite description was to the effect that traveling through the warp is like trying to make your way across a very crowded room full of people that you really don't want to talk to. The Imperial method of travel is hiking up your collar and avoiding all eye contact, keeping the punchbowl in sight. The Eldar find a nearby window and slip out of the mess entirely. However Orks just rip off their clothes and run bellowing through the room, punching anyone that doesn't get out of the way. Triskelli fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 21:36
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Triskelli posted:keeping the punchbowl in sight Lol, that's a fun way to think of the astronomican Also to further this analogy, the Chaos are the cool kids who are friends with everybody at the party so they just mingle. Sometimes they stay too late and forget they were supposed to be somewhere, but they always have a good time. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 21:39
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The Tau heard the party was unfun, but surely it can't be that bad. There is nothing our technolo-  NEVER AGAIN.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:47
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The Tau heard the party was unfun, but surely it can't be that bad. There is nothing our technolo- I thought the Tau just didn't get the warp at all and their ships used a different method for FTL travel. I liked the stronghold mission in Dark Crusade where every time the chaos dude taunts the Tau guy he doesn't hear it and keeps telling his subordinates to clean up that drat static on the comms.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:50
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Galaga Galaxian posted:The Tau heard the party was unfun, but surely it can't be that bad. There is nothing our technolo- Actually if I remember the lore right the Tau get through by crowdsurfing (skipping off the Warp). It's either the Necron or the Tau, can't remember which.
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Mar 14, 2016 21:51
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Chomp8645 posted:Whether or not Ork tech is "real" is one of the worst, most boring, most inane conversations imaginable and yet it seems to come up in literally every thread that is remotely related to warhammer. It's me, I'm the pedant. Let me just show myself out... So am I reading that correctly that the Space Hulk is filling the tier of Battleship or is it (somehow?) a tier above? It would make a certain degree of sense for them to be battleship-tier, since ork fleets didn't have a "standard" battleship model, but nearly every ork invasion started with a space hulk.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:04
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Triskelli posted:Actually if I remember the lore right the Tau get through by crowdsurfing (skipping off the Warp). It's either the Necron or the Tau, can't remember which. Tau skim the surface of the warp like a dolphin dipping in and out of the ocean. Necrons used to ignore the warp altogether and just teleport where they want to go, but now they just use the webway like the Eldar, which is dumb. And the Imperium absolutely creates new stuff and most people know how to use technology. There's a scene in the Space Marine video game where an Imperial Guard artillery officer just throws his hands up and goes looking for a field manual instead of waiting for a techpriest to show up. The "lost technology" angle applies to the more arcane tech, like thousand year old warships, and even then, the Imperium has a massive industrial complex that pumps out new warships daily. It just happens that an empire of a million worlds is really loving big.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:08
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Arcsquad12 posted:Tau skim the surface of the warp like a dolphin dipping in and out of the ocean. Necrons used to ignore the warp altogether and just teleport where they want to go, but now they just use the webway like the Eldar, which is dumb. Yeah nu-Necrons are unbelievably boring and stupid. Hey we've got a race that has completely mastered the physical realm through technology, which is sensible since they have been at war with the Warp since before they were undead nanite-metal skeletors. So far we've always had them use them use an incredibly advanced FTL drive that makes the laws of physics their bitch. Let's switch them to using the Eldar travel system (it's not like the Necrons had a war with the Eldar gods and they should notice that they're using the same travel method) for no reason because we can't have an original FTL in our setting that isn't the loving warp.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:24
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Triskelli posted:My favorite description was to the effect that traveling through the warp is like trying to make your way across a very crowded room full of people that you really don't want to talk to. The Imperial method of travel is hiking up your collar and avoiding all eye contact, keeping the punchbowl in sight. The Eldar find a nearby window and slip out of the mess entirely. However Orks just rip off their clothes and run bellowing through the room, punching anyone that doesn't get out of the way. The necrons are the old man across the way screaming for the party to stop because its to loud, and nobody pays any attention to him. Until he shows up at the door with an automatic shotgun.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:25
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Klaus88 posted:The necrons are the old man across the way screaming for the party to stop because its to loud, and nobody pays any attention to him. The Tyranids are bunch of foreigners that you can hear coming miles away because they blare their music so loud you can't even hear yourself talk until they finally burst in. You don't know where they come from, or how many there are, but goddamn they're going to eat your chips and cookies. You don't mess with the Tyranids if you're the warp is what I'm saying.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:32
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DatonKallandor posted:The Tyranids are bunch of foreigners that you can hear coming miles away because they blare their music so loud you can't even hear yourself talk until they finally burst in. You don't know where they come from, or how many there are, but goddamn they're going to eat your chips and cookies. You don't mess with the Tyranids if you're the warp is what I'm saying. If I am elected Emperor I'm going to build a wall in front of the Tyranid galaxy and make them pay for it!
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Mar 14, 2016 22:39
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DatonKallandor posted:Yeah nu-Necrons are unbelievably boring and stupid. Hey we've got a race that has completely mastered the physical realm through technology, which is sensible since they have been at war with the Warp since before they were undead nanite-metal skeletors. So far we've always had them use them use an incredibly advanced FTL drive that makes the laws of physics their bitch. Let's switch them to using the Eldar travel system (it's not like the Necrons had a war with the Eldar gods and they should notice that they're using the same travel method) for no reason because we can't have an original FTL in our setting that isn't the loving warp. I'd like it if the Necrons were simply a sub-FTL race that could only explore / wage war in the vastness of space because they're immortal undead nanite-skeletons. Give them a hive-mind so they can share their consciousness and effectively teleport their software between bodies, and then their whole race is just about sending out huge waves of soldiers pre-emptively in case they're needed at some point in the future when they arrive at their destination. That's pretty cool I think, and would heavily contrast the other warring races in 40k with their warp-traversal. Games workshop, check please. As-is the necrons have always been my least favorite race of 40k. I like the sisters of battle and the tau more than the necrons, although they have some cool figures. I can't remember any necron lore/fluff at all. DatonKallandor posted:The Tyranids are bunch of foreigners that you can hear coming miles away because they blare their music so loud you can't even hear yourself talk until they finally burst in. You don't know where they come from, or how many there are, but goddamn they're going to eat your chips and cookies. You don't mess with the Tyranids if you're the warp is what I'm saying. I was just about to ask, I know the 'nids fly around in their great Hive Fleets, but are they FTL and do they use the warp? I guess so, I just haven't really read on it. I mean, if you've got bio-plasma I guess you can have bio-warp-manipulating-sacs or something. Just kinda tie some Zoanthropes together and figure it out eh?
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Mar 14, 2016 22:41
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DatonKallandor posted:Yeah nu-Necrons are unbelievably boring and stupid.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:56
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Zaphod42 posted:As-is the necrons have always been my least favorite race of 40k. I like the sisters of battle and the tau more than the necrons, although they have some cool figures. I can't remember any necron lore/fluff at all. They used to be really angry soulless nanite-metal skeletons commanded by a few surviving Star-eating Energy/Nanite beings, most of which were dead (eaten by one of the surviving 4). They had several interesting fluff setups running where one of the 4 surviving C'tan could potentially be one of the surviving eldar gods (the Trickster who tricked a C'tan into eating the others for eldar vs the Deceiver who tricked a C'tan into eating the others for Necrons) as well as firmly establishing that the strongest of the remaining C'tan was on Mars (the Emperor beat him on Earth in Libya during the Arab Conquests and then imprisoned him on Mars to have a ready-made tech base 30.000 years later). Multiple stories had C'tan commanding Necrons who were mute and obedient, and only Lords had any personality and self-motivation. Then they retconned all of it (mind you the whole C'tan on Mars story was/is still ongoing in their biggest selling books series despite being wrecked by the retcon) and now Necrons are just Tomb Lords from Fantasy (which ironically, now also don't exist anymore because they blew up Fantasy afterwards?) and the C'tan are the Necron Lords slaves that they use as WMDs.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:56
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I like the newcrons well enough, plus they've got the one guy that pals around the galaxy looking for artifacts to steal and put in his tomb ship like a bizzarro Indiana Jones. Stealth E: Tyranids have this weird "gravity drive" where they travel in real space but the further they are from gravity wells the faster they move. I.E. they're decently quick moving from sun to sun but slow down a ton while they're in the system.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:57
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Zaphod42 posted:I was just about to ask, I know the 'nids fly around in their great Hive Fleets, but are they FTL and do they use the warp? I guess so, I just haven't really read on it.
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Mar 14, 2016 22:57
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'Nids use giant bugs that act as gravity well lassos to pull ships FTL by interacting with stars and other large interstellar objects. They cause all sorts of weird tectonic activity and they work really well at the start of the journey but near the end they slow down to a decades long crawl. Zaphod42 posted:On the other hand, the answer of "just have some slaves do it" as a stop-gap turning into the permanent solution because WE'RE AT WAR DAMNIT, THERE'S NO TIME is pretty drat That's pretty much it. Terrifically old ships are as armored as the prow but the creation of each ship is the work of decades so almost every conceivable corner that doesn't result in an appreciable efficiency drop is cut. If anything cutting down the time a ship spends in the dock undergoing maintenance for auto-loaders is an overall efficiency gain. There are also combat features ships have but nobody knows how to work anymore, in older models you can accidentally activate them for a taste of what mankind was once capable of but in newer ones they're likely to have been cut. How mankind lost so much knowledge is a fluff question but there's also a strong push in the current setting to make existing technology as quick and easy to produce as possible due to non-stop war, even if it means stripping the thing down to a barely functional skeleton (hence the skulls on everything  )Chomp8645 posted:Whether or not Ork tech is "real" is one of the worst, most boring, most inane conversations imaginable and yet it seems to come up in literally every thread that is remotely related to warhammer. It's weird because it's explicitly both. If a mekboy hands you a gun it'll work (idiosyncratically) like any regular piece of a technology but if a weirdboy hands you a psychically charged stick and says point and make da shooty noises that'll work too but only if you're an ork and you ~*believe in yourself*~. hard counter fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 14, 2016 |
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Mar 14, 2016 23:19
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Chomp8645 posted:If I am elected Emperor I'm going to build a wall in front of the Tyranid galaxy and make them pay for it! Galaxies.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:28
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Recently there's been a push to make new technology less rare. The latest Mechanicus rulebooks have them using entirely homegrown technology that's nothing like the classic "bolter and lasguns in various sizes forever" - they've got tesla weapons, networked C3 humming along in their heads, etc. Plus now there's an in-between armor type for marines that's bigger and badder than regular plate but still less absurd walking tank than a Terminator, and smaller-than-titan Mechs are pretty common now too. Then there's Volkite weapons and conversion beams and they used to be 30k tech almost exclusive and are making a comeback. It really feels like, in very small increments, GW is bringing the setting forward. Hell, there's been some stuff that's technically been Warhammer 41k - something that a lot of people thought they'd never do. Potato Salad posted:Galaxies. As far as the Imperium can tell - all of them too. The tyranids are such a ridiculously unbeatable threat, it's a good thing GW gave them the slowest method of travel.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:29
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Mechanics question: Lightning Strike is one boarding attempt at considerable range only against a ship without shields. Stuff like Advanced Teleportarium and Spess Marines give you additional attempts every time you use it, which I also get. What's the deal with actual boarding parties though? The tooltip isn't super helpful. Also how does troop strength (like nurgle/space marine favor gives you) factor in?
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Mar 14, 2016 23:32
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Actual boarding parties get two attacks, so in addition to working through shields they are on average twice as effective. Troop strength seems to be a comparison thing, all ships have 50 by default meaning that against another 50 strength ship it is a coin flip per boarding attack as to if it does anything. If you have 70 and they have 50 then it seems to be a 70% chance per boarding attack, etc.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:46
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2 SPOOKY posted:Mechanics question: Lightning Strike is one boarding attempt at considerable range only against a ship without shields. Stuff like Advanced Teleportarium and Spess Marines give you additional attempts every time you use it, which I also get. I haven't really had the opportunity to thoroughly test it, but so far my impression is: -Your troop value works as your defense against all types of boarding, i.e. as it's increased it reduces the enemy's chance of success with Boarding, Lightning Strike, and assault boats. -Conversely, it's also your attack strength in the actual short-range Boarding ability. So basically your chance of success there is a function of your own troop value vs. your enemy's. -I'm halfway sure that the troop value of the attacker is irrelevant for the purposes of Lightning Strike and assault boards. These seem to just have a fixed strength. -The proper Boarding also seems to do some hull damage in addition to the critical damage. So far, the troop value for all ships is exactly the same, which just seems like an oversight of this particular beta build. It seems very likely that they're gonna adjust them by ship size and race, because otherwise it would be a waste of time to even have it as a listed variable.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:50
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That is, by and large, how I had assumed it worked, but the % values listed on the tooltip when I was actually boarding were confusing me. I was consistently seeing 30-something% odds on a dominator loaded with space marines and upgrades. Didn't really make sense! Thanks for clearing that up though.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:53
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DatonKallandor posted:As far as the Imperium can tell - all of them too. In the end it will just be Orks and Tyranids fighting each other, for eternity. In other words the Orks win.
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Mar 14, 2016 23:54
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2 SPOOKY posted:That is, by and large, how I had assumed it worked, but the % values listed on the tooltip when I was actually boarding were confusing me. I was consistently seeing 30-something% odds on a dominator loaded with space marines and upgrades. Didn't really make sense!
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Mar 15, 2016 00:19
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The Orks will find their eternalwar and, through the resulting sheer boundless euphoria of their collective psychic gestalt, hyperoptimize their techonlogy, society, and even physical form for war. The Orks become the Tyranids.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:19
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Potato Salad posted:The Orks will find their eternalwar and, through the resulting sheer boundless euphoria of their collective psychic gestalt, hyperoptimize their techonlogy, society, and even physical form for war. Never. Tyranids aren't green enough.
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Mar 15, 2016 00:41
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Perestroika posted:I'm halfway sure that the troop value of the attacker is irrelevant for the purposes of Lightning Strike and assault boards. These seem to just have a fixed strength. Talkie Toaster fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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Mar 15, 2016 00:50
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:In the end it will just be Orks and Tyranids fighting each other, for eternity. The Orks do call combat with Tyranids 'Proper Fightin'' for a reason.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:10
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Arcsquad12 posted:Never. Tyranids aren't green enough. They also don't seem to have any fun. Incompatible with being an ork.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:12
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Okay, whoever the voice actor for the Commissar is, guy must have had a lot of fun doing the regualr execution line when you prevent insubordination. That delivery has just the right amount of scenery-chewing going on.  Chomp8645 posted:I thought the Tau just didn't get the warp at all and their ships used a different method for FTL travel. As has been said, they kinda skim the border between the warp and realspace. Has a lot less issues, but it's way slower on average. During the Medusa V global campaign, they were trying to gather data from the warpstorms about to wreck the planet, hoping they could get enough of an udnerstanding to develop proper warp drives themselves. They succeeded. Kinda. See, they got themselves a pretty nice batch of data before they had to leg it because the planet went to hell in a rahter literal fashion. It's just that said data promptly caused the Ethereals to poo poo bricks and permanently ban any research into warp-related technologies.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:17
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Phrosphor posted:An important thing to note about the blip state is that launching torpedoes does not reveal your ship, but performing a manoeuvre does. Goddamn watched all your videos and loved it then tried to watch other videos and everyone is so loving terrible. Seriously why is it so hard to do basic poo poo? most people are mass dragging ships its so annoying haha.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:22
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So I was just looking at the stats of the Dauntless Light Cruiser and... I am pretty sure that it's broadside macro cannons are basically awful. They do 6 damage per shot, every 9 seconds, which is less than the damage done by the macro cannon turrets. Also if you take the variant with the prow heavy lance, that does 24 damage every 8 seconds, cuts through armour and never misses, which is several times the DPS. I am pretty sure that the Dauntless is best off engaging head on and basically ignoring the broadsides outside of them firing during maneuvers.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:24
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What upgrades do you guys like to give your escorts?
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Mar 15, 2016 01:34
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Are the nids and orks still fighting that insane eternal battle in that one star cluster where both races are in an evolution war so which ever side eventually wins they'll have insane super orks/nids. I remember reading some fluff pieces of how an inquisition scouting party saw orks the size of dreadnoughts it was awesome.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:34
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Pretty sure that's still ongoing in current fluff. In the tmeframe of BFG, it's not even started yet though IIRC.Patrat posted:So I was just looking at the stats of the Dauntless Light Cruiser and... I am pretty sure that it's broadside macro cannons are basically awful. They do 6 damage per shot, every 9 seconds, which is less than the damage done by the macro cannon turrets. Afaik someone stated the stats for macrocannons are kinda borked in that they give you the stats of a single cannon or turret instead of the entire array. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:What upgrades do you guys like to give your escorts? So far, I've given the Firestorm the range upgrade for the lance, the Sword armor-piercing shells and the Cobra I've fitted with the upgraded Augur array to use it as a cheap scout.
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Mar 15, 2016 01:43
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:What upgrades do you guys like to give your escorts? Imp Turrets on the Sword/Firestorm. After that... still playing around. Also, regards Ad Mech Light Cruisers. It's not so much the reduced repair/upgrade. So much as it's doubling the available skills for the ship. Blinks77 fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Mar 15, 2016 |
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