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Yeah. When people talk about wanting "deck diversity", they mean between decks, not within decks.
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Mar 22, 2016 04:40
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Well I'm glad I've never disenchanted a single card. Time for some ofthe underutilized part of my collection to shine. Maybe if there are enough changes I'll actually be motivated to use some of that 6000 gold lying around to get new packs as well. I was saving it for the first expansion. I've probably played this game too much. On a more serious note. This is fantastic change. I remember I actually suggested this about a month ago, and got a whole lot of negative replies in this thread, that were basically like "Card games need a pool of bad cards, that just how it is, sorry". I'm glad to see the devs here don't agree. Megasabin fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 04:43
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There will still be bad cards. Its inescapable. That doesn't mean rebalancing won't help things a lot and maybe make more options viable, but there will still be bad cards.
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Mar 22, 2016 04:48
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I think this is the point where someone posts the link to that article from MtG that talks about why there are and always will be bad cards.
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Mar 22, 2016 04:57
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Of course they will never be able to make every card viable, but their willingness to get in there and try is awesome.
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Mar 22, 2016 05:07
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Wait Jaxi was better before? 
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Mar 22, 2016 06:47
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Good points on the 2 card limit. It's obvious now that spreading the amount of cards used per deck would make them way more homogenous.Wezlar posted:Wait Jaxi was better before? 
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Mar 22, 2016 06:52
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My guess would be they're going to remove automatic counter-attacks from everything, and make it a keyword that's only on some minions.
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Mar 22, 2016 07:01
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rinski posted:My guess would be they're going to remove automatic counter-attacks from everything, and make it a keyword that's only on some minions. This is what I was thinking as well. That means you are probably wrong, FYI.
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Mar 22, 2016 08:34
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Removing automatic counter attacks would make swarm aggro decks incredibly strong. Those type of decks are already strong now, so I'm not sure how that would increase card viability.
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Mar 22, 2016 11:18
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That's part of why I think my earlier guess of defenders only counterattacking attacks that they survive is more likely. It would add a significant liability to small creatures if they were rarely able to counterattack. It would shake up existing card value by making high health minions and high-cost minions in general more attractive than they are now. The main doubt I have about it being that is that it would buff some of Songhai's best cards even more (Inner Focus, Tusk Boar, Saberspine Seal), but those might be some of the very cards that they reference changing.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:58
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I actually hope that Mechazor is on the nerf block because it's a bad card that allows bad players to win and thereby promotes bad play
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Mar 22, 2016 22:00
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If they change the way counterattacks work it seems like a massive nerf to every creature with backstab. I agree Mechazor is stupid and promotes bad gameplay.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:04
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Tier 2 Lilithe Blightchaser attack + spell animation:
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Mar 23, 2016 00:58
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Whoa that looks rad Also here is a fun fact: If you summon a Hearth-Sister on a mana tile and have it trade places with a hostile creature, you will not get the mana and look like an idiot because you can't play your 2nd two drop now 
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Mar 23, 2016 12:26
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Tin Tim posted:Whoa that looks rad The good news is that you'll only make that mistake once. I know 
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Mar 23, 2016 12:31
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I just realized that the biggest nerf so far was the removal of the 1-click buy button from the orb screen 
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Mar 23, 2016 22:07
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Gravy Train Robber posted:The good news is that you'll only make that mistake once. One of the "hint" blurbs explicitly states that Opening Gambit happens before the minion is placed. Since I'm sure that absolutely everyone reads all of those things, memorizes them, researches which ones aren't out-of-date and immediately knows how they apply to every game situation you should have known this was Totally Logical!
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Mar 23, 2016 22:15
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orangelex44 posted:One of the "hint" blurbs explicitly states that Opening Gambit happens before the minion is placed. Since I'm sure that absolutely everyone reads all of those things, memorizes them, researches which ones aren't out-of-date and immediately knows how they apply to every game situation you should have known this was Totally Logical! Yeah, I still have problems understanding how the timing works between multiple "end of turn" triggers. I can't seem to figure out when my eggs will, won't, or even can survive my Spirit Harvester. Hearthstone problems with documentation on more advanced rules interactions when it was new too, but that was more understandable because it put most of its resources towards the new player experience.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:45
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Man, since I only played Songhai and Abyss this season, I kinda forgot how satisfying a bullshit Lyonar lethal can be. I killed an Abyss player from 20 with a wounded and a healthy Hailstone Golem on my board. Guess the combo! 
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Mar 24, 2016 20:52
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Either I'm awful or this pauper songhai deck I'm running is awful (likely both) someone help me improve this list. Spells 3x Inner Focus 2x Bloodrage Mask 3x Saberspine Seal 3x Mist Dragon Seal 3x Phoenix Fire 3x Killing Edge Dudes 2x Heartseeker 3x Chakri Avatar 3x Flameblood Warlock 3x Healing Mystic 3x Jaxi 3x Gore Horn 3x Saberspine Tiger 2x Scarlet Viper I have 210 spirit right now but will work towards whatever
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Mar 24, 2016 21:09
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I've gotten more of a feel for the deck and won a ton of games today but I'm still opened to some suggestions. I feel sort of bad for being a filthy burn player though
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Mar 25, 2016 01:44
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Quickest fix I can see is cutting the heartseekers and masks for a set of kaido assassins and a third viper. Bloodrage masks do nothing without support, and heartseeker's a dead draw once you close with the enemy without spending more cards on fixing a lovely 1/1. The pauper deck here recommends using ancestral divination, but I haven't tried it myself and don't know how it'll work with a higher curve deck like yours. Boring utilidorks like shrouds and repulsor beasts can steal a game if you use them in the right place, but I can't think of any slots for them. I've been playing for just a few days, and it's kind of tiring grinding the ladder for budget staples. All the legendaries I've got are pretty solid, and I'm going to wait for the big update before disenchanting any cards. Preeety sure Hank Hart is gonna get turned into a pair of azurite lions or something, though. Got a Chrysalis burst for playing as every faction. Even though it's random as hell it's worth it in entertainment value alone when the opponent spends his next turn running around like a headless chicken trying to kill all the goddamn eggs. 
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Mar 25, 2016 01:46
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Pauper songhai is one of the worst cheap decks because most of their top-tier cards are at the 2 highest rarities. Your list is mostly fine if you only have rares or lower to work with, I'd maybe cut the scarlet vipers and the 3rd mist dragon seal for some cards a bit lower on the curve like kaido or primus fist.
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Mar 25, 2016 01:49
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What other budget lists are good/fun? Edit: also what is the difference in reward between gold and silver?
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Mar 25, 2016 03:26
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10 gets you a random legendary on top of the epic and more spirit and gold I'm guessing In terms of budget lists, lyonar or vanar are pretty good because the difference between budget and top-end lists isn't that much, magmar or abyssian can play decent budget lists but usually add in a lot more spirit for top-end lists. Songhai and vetruvian are pretty bad unless you dump a bunch of spirit.
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Mar 25, 2016 04:06
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Tin Tim posted:Man, since I only played Songhai and Abyss this season, I kinda forgot how satisfying a bullshit Lyonar lethal can be. I killed an Abyss player from 20 with a wounded and a healthy Hailstone Golem on my board. I've been messing with a Lyonar deck based around Owlbear Sage, Auryn Nexus, and Divine Bond. I've managed to play a sage on one turn, and then proceed to get it to 50/22 on the next. It's always funny.
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Mar 25, 2016 04:23
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I try hard not to get too upset over FOTM decks and such, but honestly mechazor decks are just terrible. I really hate seeing them. Its not even that they are overpowering or anything, they are just so boring to play against.
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Mar 25, 2016 07:59
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vulturesrow posted:I try hard not to get too upset over FOTM decks and such, but honestly mechazor decks are just terrible. I really hate seeing them. Its not even that they are overpowering or anything, they are just so boring to play against. They are boring to play too, don't worry. Unfortunately its a very cheap deck to throw together so its one of the first stops a lot of people have after moving on from starter/random garbage decks.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:10
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I picked up the Steam Early Access version of Faeria as a break from Duelyst. I'm disappointed that even more than Duelyst, it copies some of the worst elements from Hearthstone: -Intentionally overpowered legendaries "balanced" by restricting you to 1 copy/deck. -Small hand size, small deck size. Don't hurt yourself. -Lots of needlessly random effects, many of them on cards too good to avoid. It's also presently a lot stingier on free rewards than Duelyst, and the crafting ratios are brutal. After 10+ hours of play, I have enough Faeria (spirit) for half of one Legendary. Most of that came from disenchanting the third one I opened, which was an extra copy of one of the two I already had. It otherwise feels pretty promising though: -Faeria (mana) rolls over from turn to turn, so it's a lot less game-losing to miss early plays to bad draws than it is in almost every other TCG. -Every turn, you have to decide between adding land to the board, drawing a card, and gaining +1 faeria. This is often a hard decision and I suspect where the greatest skill lies. -Way less removal than in Duelyst or Hearthstone, and more interaction between friendly cards. You actually have time and incentive to build a board rather than spitting out your biggest threat every turn until something sticks. I haven't pulled the trigger on this, but my favorite thing about it might be that you can outright buy a complete playset of every card for $50. They even refund (in in-game currency) all boosters you've bought up to that point. Avasculous fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 17:12
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That's pretty interesting -- I recently started playing Hearthstone and it feels like Hearthstone has less removal than Duelyst, though now that I'm thinking about it Hearthstone definitely has just as many hard removals, and significantly fewer silences. I might have to try it out, though the F2P model / emphasis on randomness seems like a red flag. Seems like the system of gaining mana / drawing / playing cards would make it slower than either, but this is purely conjecture. Also I love how Faeria is the name of the game, the crafting currency, and the resource system.
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Mar 27, 2016 19:03
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So I've finally started to accumulate a bit of spirit. Would you say it is better to craft staple neutral commons or staple class commons first? If someone asked me that in Hearthstone Id say neutrals first but because you can accumulate packs faster in Duelyst I think it might make more sense to craft class specific staples first. What say you, thread?
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Mar 27, 2016 23:53
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I would wait for the big patch to hit before crafting anything. I'm imagining there's gonna be a pretty big meta shake-up.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:04
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Kronikle posted:I would wait for the big patch to hit before crafting anything. I'm imagining there's gonna be a pretty big meta shake-up. True, that is a good point.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:05
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Pretty good pack here
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Mar 28, 2016 20:22
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Here it is: https://forums.duelyst.com/t/duelyst-beta-0-61-0-pending-release-3-29-16-30-pst/30923 With our latest patch, a long time in the making, we introduced a new rule change (drawing one card per turn) to heighten the importance of "value" as a strategic consideration. We also tweaked a large number of cards to recalibrate the metagame environment for more variety and slightly flatten the power curve, making more cards viable. We intend to maintain Duelyst as an exciting, skill-based game with powerful cards that will sustain over many years of new expansion content, and ensure Duelyst is exciting to play with a wide variety of decks and cards in your collection. This patch is aimed at improving three key elements of the game's design: 1) Expanding viability of more cards in the card pool 2) Increase in-game variety 3) Increase strategic options Increase card viability and deck diversity With "value" now being a more significant part of the game, players are no longer forced to play at least 2 cards per turn for fear of missing out on card draws. This means more cards at higher costs instantly become more viable as players find room in their decks for more late game effects without sacrificing too much tempo (ability to place a higher number of threats on the board compared to your opponent). In old Duelyst, it was usually correct to play two low cost cards rather than one high cost card in the mid-to-late game, as the loss of tempo was too much to risk. This put even more pressure on higher cost cards to compete for deck space. We tried tuning late game cards to match power level, but the power level of the game quickly spiraled out of control and became unsustainable. We won't promise that every card is tournament deck worthy, but the difference between top-tier competitive cards and the rest is much lower than it used to be. We flattened the power curve a little bit to allow more room for experimentation in deck design. Increase in-game variety Duelyst is a game of exciting fun combos and synergies. We want to continue providing many more of them, at a high power level, for many years to come. However, it has become apparent that combos lose their lustre quickly when they happen predictably every single game. Games become more "samey" and while that's fun for a few games, it's less fun over the medium to long term. Part of the skill and excitement of CCGs is the player's ability to adapt to circumstances (tactics) as well as following your deck's main goal (strategy). And because we're not willing to add too much additional in-game randomness to our card effects, we want to challenge players with this elegant change. Increase strategic options We want to give you an environment where, broadly speaking, tempo is not the only way to win. In order to beat your opponent in tempo you must sacrifice value (cards in hand). With one card draw per turn, this is a real tradeoff, and players now have to think beyond simply maximizing number of units they can play per turn and dealing with opponents' threats. In addition, our opening hand of 5 cards allows you to begin the game with more options and allows you to plan out your future turns a little better. From Beta to Beyond The current power level of Duelyst is exciting to many of our players, and we want to keep it that way. We also want our expansions to deliver exciting new viable cards at many different mana costs that are also useful. Since we are still in Beta (a term we take seriously), we want to take this opportunity to improve the game from every angle including game design, and offer new challenges to our community. We will continue to monitor game data and make further adjustments as needed. Hopefully you enjoy exploring the new landscape and try a whole bunch of cards you may have passed over in the past. - Eric Lang TL;DR: 1 card draw per turn, starting hand is 5 cards with 2 mulligan, over 40 cards changed to fit the new meta. And new season cards with keyword Forcefield: 
Kronikle fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 23:52
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I hate to say this but dropping to only drawing one card a turn basically conpletely kills my interest.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:57
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Barudak posted:I hate to say this but dropping to only drawing one card a turn basically conpletely kills my interest. interesting, most people like it.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:04
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You're really only seeing less cards on turns 4+ so it's not THAT bad. One of the big appeals of the game to me was definitely that you saw so many different cards with 2 draws and replace. I do think that this could be a real problem when looking for answers.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:06
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Not surprised by that change. The game was all about tempo and card advantage was pretty meaningless. I like the 5 card opening hand, kinda meh on the reduced mulligan from 3 to 2. Songhai seems like the big loser here. Also, really weird that they always put the changes in like 1-3 days before the season end. I managed to get to the top 20s yesterday (and fell back down a bit) with my spellhai list but there's no way that list is still going to work the same in like 3 hours from now. koolkal fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 00:07
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