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computer parts posted:It's not really clear when he became Darkseid's servant (because Communion isn't in the movie) but it's probably late enough that it only really impacted his decision to create Doomsday. You'd think that after learning of Darkseid, Luthor would forget his animosity towards Superman and try to make him an ally.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:17
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computer parts posted:It's not really clear when he became Darkseid's servant (because Communion isn't in the movie) but it's probably late enough that it only really impacted his decision to create Doomsday. The swat team shows up, and the movie mentioned at nearly the end that swat has boarded the scout ship or whatever it was, so I think he only reaches out and says hi at the very end, and the rest is all him. I'd put it after Doomsday is born.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:18
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RBA Starblade posted:The swat team shows up, and the movie mentioned at nearly the end that swat has boarded the scout ship or whatever it was, so I think he only reaches out and says hi at the very end, and the rest is all him. I'd put it after Doomsday is born. That is about where I would put the scene, but it is likely that he's been in contact with Darkseid since when he first assumed control of the Kryptonian ship. Basically there's a bit of a hard swerve from Lex opposing anything Kryptonian and seeking out Kryptonite to accomplish that goal (though he was interested in the ship since he cut off Zod's fingerprints) to him embracing Kryptonians and just saying Superman is misguided for trying to be good. I think that's not by accident.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:21
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Kurzon posted:They cut the Communion scene from the movie because it comes out of nowhere. Comic book fans figured it was Steppenwolf, and only because a giant Omega symbol appeared in Batman's nightmare. Alluding to a new threat in the middle of dealing with the current one is generally bad writing. Actually, having a ball bearing demon rise out of a lake of blood to tempt the villain with forbidden cubes is extremely good writing.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:21
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Stuff like Communion is why everyone on any side ITT should agree that all the shoehorned, time-eating Justice League worldbuilding sucks. Theres a far tighter and more abstract film here, buried underneath bizarre attempts to ground the film in service of imitating Iron Man 2, the least liked Marvel film.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:24
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Ferrinus posted:Actually, having a ball bearing demon rise out of a lake of blood to tempt the villain with forbidden cubes is extremely good writing. "Sounds good to me!" \\ 
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Apr 2, 2016 16:25
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Another thing everyone can agree on: Zack Snyder would be the most perfect director for a Hellraiser film.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:26
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Mierenneuker posted:"Sounds good to me!" Oh hell yeah.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:39
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Neurolimal posted:Another thing everyone can agree on: Zack Snyder would be the most perfect director for a Hellraiser film.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:42
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Neurolimal posted:To be honest, I always preferred the tragic portrayal of Darkseid (specifically how his mother killed his true love because she made him less bitter and hateful) over grim 'he's So gosh darn evil" stories. Normally I'd agree with a grayer portrayal of any given character, but this is Darkseid, who has willingly turned himself into the embodiment of Anti-Life. He's not Satan, he's a self-made Lovecraftian God. Any hint of humanity or relatibility would weaken the core concept of the character. Which is why we have Orion, an excellent character who actively embodies the grayness you're looking for - his struggle against his own nature of violence, for heroic valor, is mythically heroic and eminently "human" at the same time.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:42
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Kurzon posted:You'd think that after learning of Darkseid, Luthor would forget his animosity towards Superman and try to make him an ally. If Lex could make that leap, he would be the hero of the movie. Look at it this way: Superman violates Lex's narrative; he's a benevolent higher power, which is unthinkable to Lex. It's easy to lash out against something you find unthinkable, even if, on consideration, it's something good for you. Lex isn't living up to his principles when he lashes out at Superman, instead he's struggling with a gap where his principles fail him and he has only his raw personality and inclinations to go by. Darkseid, by comparison, is totally familiar. Lex knows what an abusive father looks like, he knows it's a bad thing, but he doesn't think there's anything he can do about it. He may not even have actually done that calculation, because the idea "what if I could save myself from my abusive father" never occurs to him. (And this is sympathetic, because realistically speaking a kid can't save himself from an abusive father.) Lex doesn't have the ideas or symbols he would need to think "I can fight Darkseid." If Lex embraced Christian hope, he could believe in being saved from Satan / Darkseid. Lex is suspicious of that idea, and maybe that's the idea that Superman represents. Where the movie fails, or at least stumbles, is that Lex is right to be suspicious, because there's another alternative. Instead of identifying Superman as Christ, they could have identified him as Prometheus, or to be blunt, as a heroic Satan aligned with humanity against a monstrous God. It makes no difference, in this sense, whether you can "defeat" God or not -- even if you're helpless against your abusive father, you should still nurture rebellion in your heart, and you should still love your fellow man.
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Apr 2, 2016 16:55
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Kulkasha posted:Normally I'd agree with a grayer portrayal of any given character, but this is Darkseid, who has willingly turned himself into the embodiment of Anti-Life. He's not Satan, he's a self-made Lovecraftian God. Any hint of humanity or relatibility would weaken the core concept of the character. Explaining how someone reaches that point is an interesting story though; the key words in your post is "self-made". His mother/queen of Apokolips destroying everything he cared for and taunting him about it is a huge stepping stone towards Eldritch Horror. It's a tragedy, similar to his relationship with Kalibak.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:02
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Neurolimal posted:Explaining how someone reaches that point is an interesting story though; the key words in your post is "self-made". His mother/queen of Apokolips destroying everything he cared for and taunting him about it is a huge stepping stone towards Eldritch Horror. It's a tragedy, similar to his relationship with Kalibak. Yup. 
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Apr 2, 2016 17:04
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Neurolimal posted:Another thing everyone can agree on: Zack Snyder would be the most perfect director for a Hellraiser film. ugh Clive Barker is already the most perfect director for a Hellraiser film.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:28
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Neurolimal posted:Stuff like Communion is why everyone on any side ITT should agree that all the shoehorned, time-eating Justice League worldbuilding sucks. Theres a far tighter and more abstract film here, buried underneath bizarre attempts to ground the film in service of imitating Iron Man 2, the least liked Marvel film. Depends what you mean by World building stuff. Wonder Woman (as a character) might technically qualify but I can also say the movie is better off with her involved.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:36
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Clive Barker only directed Hellraiser 1, a great film which has a wonderful sense of slick humor about it, I thought Snyder only directed super dark cynical joyless movies with no jokes? Which is it?
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Apr 2, 2016 17:37
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This movie was very good
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Apr 2, 2016 17:42
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computer parts posted:Depends what you mean by World building stuff. Wonder Woman (as a character) might technically qualify but I can also say the movie is better off with her involved. She was a good element. She was also entirely superfluous to the film. Most people dont put chocolate in their subs.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:43
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Kulkasha posted:Normally I'd agree with a grayer portrayal of any given character, but this is Darkseid, who has willingly turned himself into the embodiment of Anti-Life. He's not Satan, he's a self-made Lovecraftian God. Any hint of humanity or relatibility would weaken the core concept of the character. Darkseid ain't Lovecraftian, either. He is perfectly understandable to humans and can articulate his creed however you like.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:49
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Greatest thing about that Communion scene ain't the Devil, it's gotta be Eve.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:49
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Darkseid ain't Lovecraftian, either. He is perfectly understandable to humans and can articulate his creed however you like. Kind of a tangent, but would you agree that the Anti-Life Equation is kind of a Lovecraftian element, though?
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Apr 2, 2016 17:54
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Neurolimal posted:She was a good element. She was also entirely superfluous to the film. Most people dont put chocolate in their subs. I don't know about that. She's kind of a gentler take on Bruce's interactions with Superman. Like "what if Bruce met Superman before he showed himself to the world?" He would probably ask something similar to "who are you" but it wouldn't be couched in "he must die" rhetoric.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:56
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Darkseid ain't Lovecraftian, either. He is perfectly understandable to humans and can articulate his creed however you like. The trick is that the two can co-exist in the same person. Like Jesus, or Nyarlathotep.
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Apr 2, 2016 18:02
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The trick is that the two can co-exist in the same person. Like Jesus, or Nyarlathotep. Lovecraft didn't invent divine beings with multiple aspects. Uncle Boogeyman posted:Kind of a tangent, but would you agree that the Anti-Life Equation is kind of a Lovecraftian element, though? If you squint. Not that I'm so strongly against it but I don't think everything cosmic needs Lovecraft as the byword. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 18:21
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:Kind of a tangent, but would you agree that the Anti-Life Equation is kind of a Lovecraftian element, though?
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Apr 2, 2016 18:41
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Darkseid is a sadly all too understandable thing. WHY he wants what he does is not and hopefully will never be. But yeah, Darkseid is everything Lex thinks a God should and Would be, and I could see this Lex crumble before him.
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Apr 2, 2016 18:42
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Kurzon posted:What IS the Anti-Life Equation anyway? suspicious behavior alert
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Apr 2, 2016 18:53
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I certainly hope Justice League Part 2 doesn't end the way that Justice League Unlimited did. Holy balls that was dumb.
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Apr 2, 2016 18:57
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Lovecraft didn't invent divine beings with multiple aspects. Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant "Lovecraftian" in descriptive terms, like the whole concept of a mindless eternal force that humans would be driven mad or destroyed by if they experienced it, that sort of thing. e: To be clear, I'm saying that Darkseid could (if the writer wanted) be both a guy with recognizable motivations and the personal manifestation of some mindless pure evil outside of time. Which already sounds like it's halfway there what with "self=darkseid" bit. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 18:57
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Jimbot posted:I certainly hope Justice League Part 2 doesn't end the way that Justice League Unlimited did. Holy balls that was dumb. Although Lex melding with Brainiac/a Darkseid Robot would be a pretty good villain for Part 1.
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Apr 2, 2016 19:02
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Jimbot posted:I certainly hope Justice League Part 2 doesn't end the way that Justice League Unlimited did. Holy balls that was dumb. I'll take that over following The Death and Return of Superman and the way that story ended.
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Apr 2, 2016 19:22
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Kurzon posted:What IS the Anti-Life Equation anyway? How did Kirby define it? A mathematical formula which can be used to completely dominate the will of another person. It appears to exist within the human collective subconscious, since Sonny Sumo knew it instinctively in Forever People. loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding × guilt × shame × failure × judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=darkseid
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Apr 2, 2016 19:38
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Ferrinus posted:Actually, having a ball bearing demon rise out of a lake of blood to tempt the villain with forbidden cubes is extremely good writing. Just to be clear he's not there. That's the communication device Kryptonians use for some reason. You see one in the first part of Man Of Steel.
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Apr 2, 2016 19:56
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Yeah, that's why it's a ball bearing demon rather than a flesh and blood one.
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Apr 2, 2016 20:04
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I just watched the RLM review and Jay pointed out that there are no establishing shots in the film. I'm pretty sure that explains why the movie felt so "stuttery" to me. It just jumps from one scene to the next.
teagone fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 20:40
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SonicRulez posted:I'll take that over following The Death and Return of Superman and the way that story ended.
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Apr 2, 2016 20:48
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After watching it a second time, it hit me that Doomsday was a genetic preset in the Kryptonian Library. Luthor just mixed in his DNA to stick it to Superman. But if the Codex was destroyed, how was the ship able to do the metamorphosis without instructions? edit: my bad
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Apr 2, 2016 20:54
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teagone posted:I just watched the RLM review and Jay pointed out that there are no establishing shots in the film. I'm pretty sure that explains why the movie felt so "stuttery" to me. It just jumps from one scene to the next. Haha what there definitely were.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:03
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Kulkasha posted:Normally I'd agree with a grayer portrayal of any given character, but this is Darkseid, who has willingly turned himself into the embodiment of Anti-Life. He's not Satan, he's a self-made Lovecraftian God. Any hint of humanity or relatibility would weaken the core concept of the character.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:10
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Pablo Gigante posted:Haha what there definitely were. Well then I guess Jay is a liar! That was a part of their review, how almost all scenes start with like a closeup. I need one more screening to fully digest this movie I think.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:10
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