CommieGIR posted:And, lo, the Federal Courts did reach down and slap the gently caress out of North Carolina for not understanding the Supremacy Clause. This isnt a supremecy clause issue. The feds can entice States to make a lot of laws it wouldn't normally be able to require (like a 21 drinking age) by making Federal funding contingent on their compliance with that. Here school funding is contingent on being compliant with the relevant Federal rules so they are free to say gently caress you to the feds but they risk Federal funding.
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# ? May 6, 2016 17:09 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 11:11 |
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Nitrousoxide posted:This isnt a supremecy clause issue. The law violates the 14th. They may removing the funding as an initial punishment, but at the end of the day it's an unconstitutional law and does violate the supremacy clause.
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# ? May 6, 2016 17:12 |
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how long do trans people in north carolina have to deal with this if NC doesn't capitulate?
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# ? May 6, 2016 17:58 |
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ecureuilmatrix posted:NC is responding with "gently caress YOU DAD YOU CAN'T MAKE ME" So on Monday a federal judge is gonna respond with "Yes, we literally can"
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# ? May 6, 2016 18:00 |
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It is a Supremacy Clause issue in that Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is a federal law that binds the states (and businesses with more than 15 employees) through the Commerce clause. (enforced by federal marshals with a court order) Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 seeks to influence the states through the Appropriations clause. (enforced by withholding of funds) The DoJ effort is not being pursued as a 14th Amendment issue. There are some circuit court cases (though none in the 4th Circuit, where NC is) and some Equal Employment Opportunity Commission rulings that have held that bathroom preference discrimination against transgendered people is gender discrimination. None of these are controlling on NC. The question is, does NC have the time, money and desire for negative spotlight to work the cases through district court, the 4th Circuit, and the Supreme Court? Tatum Girlparts posted:So on Monday a federal judge is gonna respond with "Yes, we literally can" On the Title IX side, the Dept. of Education has an administrative process which can end up with compliance or either withholding funds or having DoJ file a lawsuit to withhold funds. joat mon fucked around with this message at 18:27 on May 6, 2016 |
# ? May 6, 2016 18:08 |
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I've mentioned this before but Obama stacking the previously ridiculously-conservative Fourth Circuit with liberal judges to turn it into one of the best circuits is absolutely the best thing he ever did for me personally. Plus their courthouse is like three blocks away from me so I can go and watch important cases sometimes and that's cool.
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# ? May 6, 2016 20:35 |
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Roy Moore has been suspended for Ethics violations. Which resulted him lying and throwing a tantrum: http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovemen...me_sex_marriage quote:Despite rulings by both a federal judge and later, the U.S. Supreme Court, "Moore instructed probate judges throughout Alabama to ignore those higher courts and to refuse to issue licenses to same-sex couples," AL.com reports. Full text of complaint: https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/documents/coj46complaint.pdf CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 03:43 on May 7, 2016 |
# ? May 7, 2016 03:41 |
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Man this has been like the week from hell for the religious right. Their True Believer candidate got humiliated in favor of "Two Corinthians" Trump who changes his position on abortion on a daily basis and clearly gives no fucks about their concerns. Their precious anti-trans laws are headed to certain defeat whether it be legislative or judicial. Now their favorite judge has been punished at the behest of the Godless sodomite lobby. I'd almost feel bad if they weren't such terrible people.
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# ? May 7, 2016 04:07 |
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Can someone explain to me what the Gender neutral bathroom signs actually mean? What's the difference between the blue signs and simply stating that a bathroom is Unisex?
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# ? May 7, 2016 04:55 |
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So, it's happening. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/05/09/north-carolina-justice-dept-face-monday-deadline-for-bathroom-bill/ quote:North Carolina governor Pat McCrory filed a lawsuit Monday against the United States Justice Department, asking a federal court to rule that its so-called “bathroom law” is not discriminatory. It's going to be delicious when his poo poo gets smacked down.
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# ? May 9, 2016 15:55 |
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Gyre posted:It's going to be delicious when his poo poo gets smacked down. The best part: quote:North Carolina's suit said that Title VII, which the Department of Justice said House Bill No. 2 violates, doesn't recognize transgender status as a protected class. "If the United States desires a new protected class under Title VII, it must seek such action by the United States Congress," the suit said. What better way to get that done than to sue in Federal Court over a law that is Constitutionally dead in the water, while you cry about being given a week to rectify a law that you took less than a day to pass as a bill and signed into law the same day in a special session. Seriously, someone in the DoJ is laughing their rear end off right now, and I'm willing to bet that he made this lawsuit under advise of the Liberty Council, because it reeks of 'Kim David part deux' because nobody but Liberty Council would be so loving stupid to think this would fly.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:00 |
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Gyre posted:So, it's happening. Today is the deadline the feds gave them to pass something that says the law will not be enacted or enforced. I wonder if they'll pull the trigger and yank the money.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:01 |
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Mr. Nice! posted:Today is the deadline the feds gave them to pass something that says the law will not be enacted or enforced. I wonder if they'll pull the trigger and yank the money. Considering they are suing? They'll probably ACCELERATE yanking the money.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:03 |
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Meanwhile in NC, they're suing the Justice Department: http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/north-carolina-hb2-justice-department-deadline/ (beaten lol)quote:"This unrealistic deadline by the federal government is quite amazing," he said in his Fox News interview. "It's the federal government being a bully."... The Justice Department, of course, doesn't agree with this interpretation.http://documents.buzzfeed.com/Title%20VII%20Memo.pdf quote:The most straight forward reading of Title VII is that discrimination "because of ... sex" includes discrimination because an employee's gender identification is as a member of a particular sex, or because the employee is transitioning, or has transitioned, to another sex. As the Court explained in Price Waterhouse, by using "the simple words 'because of,' ... Congress meant to obligate" a Title VII plaintiff to prove only "that the employer relied upon sex-based considerations in coming to its decision." 490 U.S. at 241-242. It followsthat, as a matter of plain meaning, Title VII' s prohibition against discrimination "because of ... sex" encompasses discrimination founded on sex-based considerations, including discrimination based on an employee's transitioning to, or identifying as, a different sex altogether. Al-Saqr posted:Can someone explain to me what the Gender neutral bathroom signs actually mean? What's the difference between the blue signs and simply stating that a bathroom is Unisex? There's no difference. If you're referring to the signs I'm thinking of, they're usually put up when there's a third bathroom (aside from male and female) to indicate it's for parents with very young children/disabled people/etc.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:05 |
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Sharkie posted:The Justice Department, of course, doesn't agree with this interpretation.http://documents.buzzfeed.com/Title%20VII%20Memo.pdf Seriously, whose ready to watch the inevitable spanking?
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:07 |
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Y'all act like getting bitchslapped by the Feds isn't going to feed their persecution narrative.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:09 |
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Y'all act like getting bitchslapped by the Feds isn't going to feed their persecution narrative. Everything feed into their persecution narrative. The entire backstory for the Liberty Council and half the Evangelicals is that they are being oppressed by NOT being allowed to oppress others.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:10 |
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CommieGIR posted:Everything feed into their persecution narrative. The entire backstory for the Liberty Council and half the Evangelicals is that they are being oppressed by NOT being allowed to oppress others. Yeah, the only thing that wouldn't feed into their persecution narrative would be to roll over and let them run roughshod over LGBT people. So gently caress 'em. The important thing is getting bad law overturned.
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# ? May 9, 2016 16:14 |
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CommieGIR posted:The best part: 1) When congressmen added 'gender' to the civil rights act of 1964 as a poison pill, intending that the inclusion of women would scuttle the whole thing, did they intend to include transgendered people as well? Of course not. If congress didn't intend gender identity to be part of the civil rights act, congress has to amend the civil right act to include it. 2) Congress' inclusion of 'gender' as something that shouldn't be a basis for discrimination is sound, fair and honorable. In the last 50 years, we have come to /are coming to a broader and more inclusive understanding of 'gender' and believe that those same principles that prohibit discrimination based upon biological sex apply equally to discrimination based upon subjective gender. Therefore gender identity is covered by the civil rights act. This is DoJ's current position, as noted by: Sharkie posted:The Justice Department, of course, doesn't agree with this interpretation.http://documents.buzzfeed.com/Title%20VII%20Memo.pdf CommieGIR posted:What better way to get that done than to sue in Federal Court over a law that is Constitutionally dead in the water, while you cry about being given a week to rectify a law that you took less than a day to pass as a bill and signed into law the same day in a special session. CommieGIR posted:Seriously, someone in the DoJ is laughing their rear end off right now, and I'm willing to bet that he made this lawsuit under advise of the Liberty Council, because it reeks of 'Kim David part deux' because nobody but Liberty Council would be so loving stupid to think this would fly. Mr. Nice! posted:Today is the deadline the feds gave them to pass something that says the law will not be enacted or enforced. I wonder if they'll pull the trigger and yank the money.
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# ? May 9, 2016 17:37 |
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NC is making "bathroom policy" the hill they die on? Really?
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# ? May 9, 2016 17:43 |
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Y'all act like getting bitchslapped by the Feds isn't going to feed their persecution narrative. I'm absolutely ok with that. And if that's what they really want, I have no problem with giving it to them.
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# ? May 9, 2016 18:19 |
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Gyre posted:So, it's happening. Oh my loving god. There is literally a part of that law that makes it impossible to sue for employment discrimination OF ANY KIND in state courts and they try to play this bullshit.
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# ? May 9, 2016 18:54 |
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It would be nice if a company that pulled out of NC changed their minds. But then deliberately and explicitly refused to hire any and all straight white men.
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# ? May 9, 2016 19:01 |
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Who What Now posted:I'm absolutely ok with that. And if that's what they really want, I have no problem with giving it to them. Yeah, if that's the way they get their kink on who am I to shame them.
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# ? May 9, 2016 19:08 |
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joat mon posted:That's 100% true, and shows that 1)strict construction and 2)living constitution/laws arguments know no ideology. (though it's usually right+strict construction and left+living constitution) Even if it is still in question, I doubt North Carolina is going to be the one to finally sway that into the Conservative's favour, and this will likely just make the DoJ more staunch in knocking these sort of things down.
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# ? May 9, 2016 19:15 |
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Statement from the DoJ coming at 3:30
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# ? May 9, 2016 20:04 |
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joat mon posted:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...3cf6_story.html McCrory filed an amicus brief in that case.
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# ? May 9, 2016 20:27 |
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comes along bort posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...3cf6_story.html Yeah, which is part of why its likely his little lawsuit will go nowhere.
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# ? May 9, 2016 20:29 |
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comes along bort posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...3cf6_story.html What this means is that there's no 4th Circuit binding precedent with regard to Title VII. However, the issues presented in the Title IX case are going to be analyzed in the same way as a Title VII case, so the former case is a good indicator of which way at least that panel of the 4th will go.
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# ? May 9, 2016 20:45 |
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Lynch just came out and said that the DOJ is suing the state of NC over HB2 to enjoin enforcement and that financial sanctions on the state are still on the table during the process.
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# ? May 9, 2016 21:11 |
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Mr. Nice! posted:Lynch just came out and said that the DOJ is suing the state of NC over HB2 to enjoin enforcement and that financial sanctions on the state are still on the table during the process. I think they are leaving them on the table as a good faith bait, but the way Lynch was talking, DoJ is going to rip them a new one if they don't back down now.
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# ? May 9, 2016 21:13 |
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CommieGIR posted:I think they are leaving them on the table as a good faith bait, but the way Lynch was talking, DoJ is going to rip them a new one if they don't back down now. Yeah the DoJ is not happy at all that NC didn't even respond to them and instead just filed suit.
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# ? May 9, 2016 21:14 |
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Mr. Nice! posted:Yeah the DoJ is not happy at all that NC didn't even respond to them and instead just filed suit. Seriously, it was such a bad move on NCs part. Oh, they just filed a second suit as well. But if Lynch is talking this way, NC might as well have just thrown a temper tantrum, because DOJ is going to take them through the ringer for that. Lynch just announced UofNC board of governors is meeting tomorrow and they reached out to the DoJ, chances are they are going to be game.
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# ? May 9, 2016 21:15 |
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Oh my god, that speech owned. Taking questions now: https://www.justice.gov/live-stream
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# ? May 9, 2016 21:15 |
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Transcript for those who missed it: https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-loretta-e-lynch-delivers-remarks-press-conference-announcing-complaint quote:Today, we are filing a federal civil rights lawsuit against the state of North Carolina, Governor Pat McCrory, the North Carolina Department of Public Safety and the University of North Carolina. We are seeking a court order declaring House Bill 2’s restroom restriction impermissibly discriminatory, as well as a statewide bar on its enforcement. While the lawsuit currently seeks declaratory relief, I want to note that we retain the option of curtailing federal funding to the North Carolina Department of Public Safety and the University of North Carolina as this case proceeds.
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# ? May 9, 2016 21:51 |
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quote:Let me also speak directly to the transgender community itself. Some of you have lived freely for decades. Others of you are still wondering how you can possibly live the lives you were born to lead. But no matter how isolated or scared you may feel today, the Department of Justice and the entire Obama Administration wants you to know that we see you; we stand with you; and we will do everything we can to protect you going forward. Please know that history is on your side. This country was founded on a promise of equal rights for all, and we have always managed to move closer to that promise, little by little, one day at a time. It may not be easy – but we’ll get there together. Powerful stuff. Are these the strongest words a Federal official has ever said in support of transgender rights?
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# ? May 9, 2016 22:28 |
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William Bear posted:Powerful stuff. Are these the strongest words a Federal official has ever said in support of transgender rights? I just read the whole transcript (it's not long). As a middle-aged trans woman who hides her trans status out of fear, knowing that the federal government sees me as a human being with rights, and not an abomination to be shunned... It brought tears to my eyes and to my wife's. It's acceptance on a scale I didn't think I'd see for another decade at least. It gives me hope.
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# ? May 10, 2016 02:42 |
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That DOJ statement is why getting out and vote this year is so important. All that support goes bye bye in a Republican administration.
Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 13:02 on May 10, 2016 |
# ? May 10, 2016 12:51 |
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:That DOJ statement is why getting out and vote this year is so important. All that support goes bye bye in a Republican administration. Honestly, it's enough to make me vote Hillary. I was on the fence before.
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# ? May 10, 2016 15:20 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 11:11 |
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It was self evident from the moment the Obama administration actually started doing anything with LGBT issues. Any liberal who sits out or votes third party this election is a traitor to the cause as far as I'm concerned.
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# ? May 10, 2016 16:26 |