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The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?
Sorry that I've been absent, gonna try and get back into things.

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Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE


Map with Duchy Names

JamezBfod
Jun 13, 2003

there may be people who
find a blender sexy - I
would do well with a more
humanoid model, myself
I take it I'm on the Western Edge-ish of the Orc Plains. What is with the territory West-NorthWest that isn't colored like the rest of the Plains but not under the human territorial boundaries?

I am Communist
Apr 19, 2002

I can show you what endless looks like
I can show you a single infinite thing
I can let you taste the sweet and sour of forever
Unending. Eternal. Inevitable
Taste my darkness
Climb into my abyss
Fall into me. Into my eyes
Look at them. Depths unfathomable
Pain immeasurable
A cruel promise fulfilled
I'm out of pocket until probably late friday or early saturday. Phone posting from a "clinic".

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn
Soiled Meat

JamezBfod posted:

I take it I'm on the Western Edge-ish of the Orc Plains. What is with the territory West-NorthWest that isn't colored like the rest of the Plains but not under the human territorial boundaries?

Think thats the elves.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE

JamezBfod posted:

What is with the territory West-NorthWest that isn't colored like the rest of the Plains but not under the human territorial boundaries?

mcclay posted:

Think thats the elves.

Color represent terrain, not population. White is snowy/arctic, Green is hills and plains with occasional forests, yellow is savannah, dark green is concentrated forests, blue is water.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

Basically Kynä right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1-GMVVrtAg

JamezBfod
Jun 13, 2003

there may be people who
find a blender sexy - I
would do well with a more
humanoid model, myself
I just cannot seem to get into a proper groove in this game. I'm sorry but I'm going to officially bow out.

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn
Soiled Meat
I'm not going to be able to post much for the rest of this week due to travel.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Update delayed until tomorrow, as my board game group ran longer than I expected.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Just a heads up, there will be no updates this upcoming weekend as I will be out of town. Managed to snag Hamilton ticket, hurray!

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
So Hamilton was beyond amazing, if you can beg, borrow, or steal a ticket, definitely go as it lives up to the utterly ridiculous levels of hype.

In actually game related news, Strangers In a Strange World is now official heading towards its first Age break. Last update of the age will be on May 1, 2016. After that, I take a week off from updating to actually go about fast-forwarding the world a century or two into the future. You'll get an IC idea that this is going to happen in the next update.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
So something multiple people have run into, but I thought worth mentioning. The more ranks you get the fuzzier your pre-godhood memories become. At 3 Ranks, you can remember your life in broad strokes, but stuff like names and faces are indistinct and hard to remember. At 4 ranks the general arc of events is still there, but incomplete. However, details are just straight up gone. This increases the more ranks, so once people start get 5+ it'll get even worse.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
So we've made it through age 1, hurray. So while I spend this week prepping for age 2, I'd like to get some feedback. What did you like? What didn't you like? What you you like to see more/less of? That sort of thing.

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

Pros:
-Regular Updates
-Flexibility
-All-around excellent performance, especially considering this is your first go at running one of these clusterfucks.

Cons:
For me, and I know I've ranted about this at length before, there is only one Con, really, but it's multi-faceted. The NPCs. I'm going to quote Commie here, because it summed up my feelings on it pretty succinctly;

Commie posted:

Everyone is an incurable rear end in a top hat. No one is just a cool dude.
And maybe this hits me hardest because I am bound by the unbreakable chains of MORALITY, but there is no one I would want to give a high-five to and be like "Good job!"

I am certain you could feel my growing OOC animosity toward the majority of the elves as it bled over into apathy in-character. The only cool guy is the Baron, and that's basically because he hasn't hosed up yet.

The lack of NPCs I can actually like puts a damper on my enthusiasm for interacting with any of them. That's my biggest gripe.

______

That being said, Kynä is going to wake up refreshed and relaxed with a rekindled optimism, like when you're super angry or upset and you deal with it by taking a nap that turns into twelve hours of sleep. Meanwhile, I get to live my evil existence vicariously through Shardix/Alderbaraan, because I am totally willing to take credit for at least one-third of what his character has become. Maybe even half! I was the one who first suggested he drown people in a tsunami. I was the one who suggested he create a Siren (and look how well it turned out! :v:). I was the one who suggested chains to represent slavery for his god-fashion! I can't remember if I suggested fish-people, but I totally would have done it in his place, so I'll take it.

Basically what I am saying is, if you need thematically-appropriate evil advice, I am the guy to see.

Edit: OH, and I recall you looking at Jamez's resource system stuff for factiongame to make things more tangible? I have no idea what it is and didn't read it, but I'm down for that.

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....
Pros:
Largely echoing Rhjamiz here. Regular update schedule combined with good quality make Winston's Fascist Adventures In Wonderland a nice break to my daily doings. It's an all around cool thing I greatly enjoy participating in.

Cons:
Don't have much to say about NPCs because Winston made the decision to ironboot all of them into drones very early on. So if I had to try and come up with something, perhaps it would be the tendency for some scenes to drag needlessly on and on. Sometimes, it take one or two updates to conquer a village which is fine. But sometimes a god struggles with the same, often fairly trivial issue with the same people for ages, like Kynä's elf dealings or how Bo spent who knows how long in that one plague village. Now granted you've always been super cool about this and willing to work with the players (well, at least me :v:) to get them out of a bind, but perhaps some more judicious fiat could be applied in-game if a god is clearly not getting a move on with some issue.

HiKaizer
Feb 2, 2012

Yes!
I finally understand everything there is to know about axes!
I've really enjoyed the game in general so far, so if the comments below seem extremely critical please do not take them personally. I know it's your first time GMing, and the fact you've been open and discussing things with players is a good and positive sign.

Feedback and ideas

1. Mental domination and forcing people to your point of view is clearly the optimal pathway to interactions, but trying to nurture and preserve free will does not appear to have any tangible or worthwhile benefits. Characters are either so utterly inflexible as to require forced conversion or be in inevitable and unshaking opposition, or they are so completely dependent on your babying them and their established world view that they cannot have meaningful engagements. Gavin and Armas were the two key culprits for me, but there have been a lot of others and there are the people as a general group. Other people have been noticing this as well. This is why I enjoy the Duke of Wexfold because he is the only one not to be completely cowed by David but he is also willing to discuss openly and freely his own views, and disagree with David but change his mind on good points. Sycophants and puppets do not make good interactions. Used sparingly they're good, but when they make up an entire world it can be rather eye-rolling at times.

As an additional caveat unless the worship has some kind of meaningful effect why keep going on with the feeling of it? It makes it kind of leads people constantly into a drug addiction or hedonism theme, but this doesn't seem to have a purpose or payoff except for following your own preferred playstyle in almost every game I have seen. Which after 3-4 years now is a reasonable amount. If worship isn't going to be an important or relevant thing in the game story or mechanics just tone it back. We get it. Worship is nice.

2. People invest too much time into something only to have it repeatedly fail. For me personally there were a lot of things that I tried to approach from different angles but you seem to have one specific idea that I have to shoehorn into or I fail. It makes me discouraged and feel like either I just need to play a guessing game with you to figure out what the secret to succeeding in a given situation is, or that I just am not allowed to do it. For example I spent two or three actions on trying to figure out those elven ruins in my lands and got nothing back except for the fact that they seemed weird. For a god playing with the influence and insight of natural systems and patterns surely I should be able to tell if it seems like there are missing structures and the most logical place might be below? If a players spends multiple actions on something, it is important to them. Give ground, give them something even when they fail. My whole ongoing goal of making a floating island is an example of this because every time I try to do this you just seem to block me in every possible way. Other players can create tidal waves that permanently submerge an entire island or grow a huge wall of living bone (or plant I don't know) but I can't float some rocks? Why?

3. You have a different set of physical and metaphysical laws but some of these are not meaningfully important or practical. For example when we discussed steam you mentioned it might not work the same way. Why? What's the point of that? Winston could just make some weird living cyborg horse engine that does the same role, but your world was not set up as some weird H.R.R Geiger alternate reality from the start so why force people into weird alternatives. It's one thing to say that perhaps advanced or removed concepts such as atomic theory, temporal mechanics, tectonic movement or thermal transfer through the ocean aren't the same or apply and that's fair enough. A lot of people use these to game these. But if gravity does not work the same way then what keeps things on the ground and why? Do not be different for the sake of it; be different when those differences make interesting and important gameplay and setting differences.

4. What is this planet? Are we on some weird oxymoron planet that is both huge and tiny? My god has super-strength and order, so reasonably I should be able to fly as fast as a passenger plane. I'm not trying to go for super-sonic flight here and that seems reasonable with my domains. But it takes days to fly from one end of Wexfold to the other? Is it larger than the half the circumference of the earth or something? Not to mention that you mentioned that the planet might not be a sphere, but still has curvature. Why? This seems like you are either inconsistent and changed your mind partway through or you're just being weird and difficult for the sake of it.

5. Subtlety does not work in a PBP game. I cannot speak for other players, but in our own discussions there have been repeated instances where you have given me what you thought were subtle hints or information that I completely missed. This leads into point 2 a little bit but unless it is specifically a big metaplot related thing then players are just going to miss out and not get to explore stuff which you come up with. This is a loss for us as the player and you as the GM. Trust your players not to metagame with it and remember, this isn't a face to face game. We cannot banter backwards and forwards easily to gain extra insight.


Part of David's detachment to mortals and his inability to take them seriously as a general theme is basically me adapting to the game to try and get the most fun out of it. For a GM that enjoys NPC interaction stories so much, your game feels kind of dry on that. By the time I got to the dwarves I was just playing the game as a 4x strategy game and expanding quickly so I am pretty sure I missed a lot of opportunities to discover cool secrets about the dwarves because there wasn't any point to it. I expect this will change with the gods having carved up most of the game board and being entrenched next age but keep it in mind.

I am Communist
Apr 19, 2002

I can show you what endless looks like
I can show you a single infinite thing
I can let you taste the sweet and sour of forever
Unending. Eternal. Inevitable
Taste my darkness
Climb into my abyss
Fall into me. Into my eyes
Look at them. Depths unfathomable
Pain immeasurable
A cruel promise fulfilled
Pros:
  • Regular Updating
  • Flexibility
  • Communicative and Very willing to talk and work with the players even if you disagree and it goes the other way.


Cons:
  • My character doesn't feel unique. At all. I'll discuss the domain duplication/distribution in another point. My abilities aren't gimped for what they are but what I'm allowed or not allowed to do with them. Every character seems to be able to do what mine does by bending their domains. Mind control? check, modifying souls? check, fighting as well or better? check. Oh and command might work less effectively on some creatures/units. I'm assured I can do it better, but no one seems to be experiencing real hardship. So essentially everyone can do what I can do AND use their own domains.
  • I never know how good anything I have is / I can spend weeks of real time improving things and I get informed that something someone spent one turn on is better. This is more than aggravating and has made me want to quit more than once. It's agonizing and agravating. It's the main reason I've been grabbing everything in quantity because I get informed at every turn my dudes aren't good enough. Period. It's frustrating.
  • Worship is meaningless. Land is meaningless. Being told "I'm ahead of everyone else." Is a joke when 10 guys they made are worth 100 to 1000 of mine.
  • I never know when my domains will be meaningless. I can't use War +2 to make a sword becuase I will "be able to make nuclear weapons...." seriously. Give me some credit please. Souls +2 which should allow me to do awesome stuff has been lacking and is mostly worthless. Everyone can modify souls so why am I not able to do it more effectively. I gave up using it. I can't make my guys better only more skilled, which if you see the above means nothing. Now it's just a bonus on other mind control actions for controller men. Look at when I was trying to make magi. They sucked. Almost a real time week wasted. Pointless. Useless.
  • There is no adventure or anything special in the world. I wish I had never made a mind controller guy. No NPC I meet is special. No awesome ranger guys, no hero guys, no magical ninjas to recruit. I just wish this had been communicated up front. Recruiting a fallen paladin with a magical blacksword would have been cool, instead the PCs have to make stuff special.
    I wish I had known becuase all I can get is crap. All I can make is crap or a pale imitation of anything good.
  • Domain duplication. It's the same domains being handed out almost that you've played in other godgames or a variation on those. I understand why they happened, but to fix it there have been really random domains handed out. S ome of which are really good and makes me feel like with all the limitations I have on making anything remotely better leaves me with envy.
  • NPCs are incurable assholes. Everyone touched on this, no need to go further. I remember wanting to kill and burn everything until you would have to GM-kill me. Becuase there was no one and nothing to like.
  • Ignored actions or stuff dropped off or not mentioned as having happened without explanation. Actions that fail repeatedly with no clues or clues that are extremely cryptic that go on for infinite turns with no payoff.
    My last action or communication for the age should have been the baseline middle ages education thing. Which could have been communicated from Aurelian 3-4 ways. 2 of which are instant mental communication either through slaves or the mindspace while travelling. Guess my mark for the age will be waking up to the same not as good crap? I'll never know.
  • All of my points were always met with how "far ahead I am" and "Other players feel I favor you"
    Well I'll trade places with anyone of them and they can get told that no matter how far they go or what they make, it's not good enough. There's no reward for posting consistently and in fact it's almost punished or not rewarded it feels like.

This is how I feel and might not reflect what is actually happened. I'm not whining or trying to complain, I just want to know how I can know how well I am doing and exactly what, if any benefit my character gets for being my character. Because I can't see it and I know it's probably me not being able to see it?

I am Communist fucked around with this message at 18:06 on May 2, 2016

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn
Soiled Meat
I'm going to have to echo a lot of the points made here. There were more than few times I got frustrated because I spent a long time working on something only to have it fail at every turn or turn out to not matter. The times when I did kick the beehive on purpose, see the Mages, was fun but that was mostly because I knew I was playing with fire. The whole Wavecrest thing was not fun because A) Everyone is a dick and B) every time I tried to unfuck things it just made it worse until I just said gently caress it. My other problem is that every leader guy I've met is a huge dick who immediately attacks me and thus makes me immediately any future guys out of paranoia. I know I've got the whole monster thing going on, but David was a loving demon and he got people to to talk to him a lot easier than me. Despite all this I have been having a lot of fun, even if my attention span sometimes fucks with me.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
This is all good stuff, some of this will be resolved just by moving to the second age when you are a bit more well established and known, however it seems I definitely went a bit far in trying to make the world broken and in need of fixing. However, some of the problems may be related to the pace of my posting, and I might be better able to address them if I switched from daily to every other day. However, the regular daily schedule seemed like a high point to many of you too. So I want to hear your thoughts over whether you'd rather have me stick to daily or switch to every other day so I can put more time into the updates.

I am Communist
Apr 19, 2002

I can show you what endless looks like
I can show you a single infinite thing
I can let you taste the sweet and sour of forever
Unending. Eternal. Inevitable
Taste my darkness
Climb into my abyss
Fall into me. Into my eyes
Look at them. Depths unfathomable
Pain immeasurable
A cruel promise fulfilled
I prefer the daily, because if an action is missed there won't be a 4 day delay in someone getting something accomplished due to communication issues.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Hoping to get some more responses on daily vs. every other day. However, in the meantime I have another question. Do people want a big info-dump post at the beginning of the age, or do they want to do a bit of exploring in a fashion similar to when the game first started and learn how the world has changed as their characters do?

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn
Soiled Meat
I wouldn't mind every other day, makes it less stressful knowing that if you miss a day you aren't falling behind. I would also like a big info-dumb, makes sense since most of us are heavily established

Shardix
Sep 14, 2011

The end! No moral.
I appreciate the every day update schedule, as I like being pretty much guaranteed to have something to read after work. I'm pretty easy going, though, so whatever works best for everyone is fine with me.

As for the start of the next age. I'm inclined to explore around and see what's what.

I am Communist
Apr 19, 2002

I can show you what endless looks like
I can show you a single infinite thing
I can let you taste the sweet and sour of forever
Unending. Eternal. Inevitable
Taste my darkness
Climb into my abyss
Fall into me. Into my eyes
Look at them. Depths unfathomable
Pain immeasurable
A cruel promise fulfilled
The only thing I'd want an info dump on is my area, units, and projects.

As far as discovery, the stuff I don't know or my people don't would be fine to explore and discover.

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....

Shardix posted:

I appreciate the every day update schedule, as I like being pretty much guaranteed to have something to read after work. I'm pretty easy going, though, so whatever works best for everyone is fine with me.

As for the start of the next age. I'm inclined to explore around and see what's what.

I echo this sentiment. One of the things I really enjoy about this game is that there's usually always something nice to read during my morning coffee. So yeah, I'd like to keep the once per day schedule, even if it sometimes means slightly rushed actions when I'm not feeling inspired.

As for the info dump. I assume we still get some sort of summary by our followers regardless of which choice we take? On the advancements they've made, on major historical events, on new borders etc. Basically, this:

I am Communist posted:

The only thing I'd want an info dump on is my area, units, and projects.

As far as discovery, the stuff I don't know or my people don't would be fine to explore and discover.

I mean, personally I'd like a fairly substantial dump, mainly because I tend to play this game as an empire builder (got to tech up so that Winston can be the first one to Alpha Centauri!) and would appreciate the info. If the more explory people don't want to have it though, it's fine with me. Wouldn't want to spoil their fun.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Oh, I forgot to mention Divine Body[+10] got phased out over the age break. I'll process existing actions that use it, but you guys should rely on domains only from now on.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Ok, just to clarify my new schedule. I'm taking Wednesdays and Fridays off. I was on the fence about Wednesdays, but having gotten back from my board-game group an hour ago, I find I'm writing like poo poo. So, next update will be tomorrow.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Just a friendly reminder. No update tomorrow as I am taking Wednesdays and Fridays off.

HiKaizer
Feb 2, 2012

Yes!
I finally understand everything there is to know about axes!
Theantero, please save me from weird space time anomalies and speak with David. Otherwise Valhawk's going to make me fly at such low speeds it should be physically impossible for me to remain airborne.

Also I don't really want to have to break your stuff to grab Winston's attention.

I think you're online in my mornings, otherwise we could do a google doc over a day or two.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
No update tonight, slight writer's block. I'll try and get one up tomorrow during the day, since I'm taking the day off of work for my birthday.

Shardix
Sep 14, 2011

The end! No moral.
Sounds good. Happy birthday, Valhawk!

I am Communist
Apr 19, 2002

I can show you what endless looks like
I can show you a single infinite thing
I can let you taste the sweet and sour of forever
Unending. Eternal. Inevitable
Taste my darkness
Climb into my abyss
Fall into me. Into my eyes
Look at them. Depths unfathomable
Pain immeasurable
A cruel promise fulfilled
Happy B-day

Theantero
Nov 6, 2011

...We danced the Mamushka while Nero fiddled, we danced the Mamushka at Waterloo. We danced the Mamushka for Jack the Ripper, and now, Fester Addams, this Mamushka is for you....
Yeah, happy birthday :toot:

Rhjamiz
Oct 28, 2007

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6JnYnA9Tzo

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Updated delayed till tomorrow. Thanks a lot Brexit.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Updated delayed due to long chat and low motivation.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
Writer's block + the need to get up early tomorrow means update is delayed until tomorrow night.

Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
I've been dealing with a bit of burnout and just a general creative rut recently, which is why updating has been so erratic. So, to try and regularize the situation someone, I'm officially switching from daily to every other day in terms of update schedule. Hopefully that'll give some time for our slower posters to keep up more easily, while also lessening my burnout.

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Valhawk
Dec 15, 2007

EXCEED CHARGE
No update tonight. Work was brutal today.

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