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Just make the legal voting age 20-60
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Jun 25, 2016 03:05
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TyrantWD posted:A voting test is a terrible idea, but for referendums it seems like there should be an independent party that provides a pamphlet with a concise and simple explanation of what you are voting on. Nothing contentious, just the basics - what is the EU for example. Hand it out to every voter in the months leading up to the election and again at the polls. Here in Oregon, we get a voter pamphlet mailed in to us weeks before the election. It has a list of all the ballot measures and elections with explanations and statements from supporters and opponents. You read and make your choices at your leisure, then drop it off or mail it in. It's a really fantastic system.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:16
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TheBalor posted:Here in Oregon, we get a voter pamphlet mailed in to us weeks before the election. It has a list of all the ballot measures and elections with explanations and statements from supporters and opponents. You read and make your choices at your leisure, then drop it off or mail it in. Same in California. If they don't do that in Britain they should really reconsider holding any referendums.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:17
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Jack of Hearts posted:Same in California. If they don't do that in Britain they should really reconsider holding any referendums. At the rate that the now privatized Royal Mail charges, the UK would need a bailout from the EU in order to afford mailing the ballots that people can vote to leave the EU on.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:21
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Volkerball posted:Just make the legal voting age 20-60 the youngs weren't the ones who screwed this up for everyone. in fact they voted the most consistently against brexit
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Jun 25, 2016 03:23
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Condiv posted:the youngs weren't the ones who screwed this up for everyone. in fact they voted the most consistently against brexit 
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Jun 25, 2016 03:24
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Condiv posted:the youngs weren't the ones who screwed this up for everyone. in fact they voted the most consistently against brexit over 60 being out would more than make up for it. 18 year olds don't know what the hell they are talking about either.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:26
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More like :thatstheidea:
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Jun 25, 2016 03:27
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Isn't it the responsibility of the respective campaigns to make sure that the people know what the hell they're voting for (and voting their way)? Alternatively, isn't it the responsibility of the government that's about to hold a referendum to structure it in such a way that it's not going to result in the outcome that's disastrous for them themselves?
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Jun 25, 2016 03:29
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gradenko_2000 posted:Isn't it the responsibility of the respective campaigns to make sure that the people know what the hell they're voting for (and voting their way)? for the right the first tends to directly effect the second pretty negatively
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Jun 25, 2016 03:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:Isn't it the responsibility of the respective campaigns to make sure that the people know what the hell they're voting for (and voting their way)? sometimes the more malicious side can make it difficult with lies and arguing in bad faith!!
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Jun 25, 2016 03:33
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gradenko_2000 posted:Alternatively, isn't it the responsibility of the government that's about to hold a referendum to structure it in such a way that it's not going to result in the outcome that's disastrous for them themselves? Yeah, but you probably shouldn't trust a guy who skull hosed a dead pig to do it.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:33
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the gish gallop is real and it's much quicker and more effective to stamp their face into the dirt than refute the bullshit
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Jun 25, 2016 03:33
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TyrantWD posted:A voting test is a terrible idea, but for referendums it seems like there should be an independent party that provides a pamphlet with a concise and simple explanation of what you are voting on. Nothing contentious, just the basics - what is the EU for example. Hand it out to every voter in the months leading up to the election and again at the polls. My county does this for local referenda and a few other things. Edit: And I think you can find for-against argument synopses from a nonpartisan group for Texas-wide things, you just have to look On The Internet.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:35
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Jack of Hearts posted:More like :thatstheidea: Racism is bad, but somehow ageism isn't. Okay.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:37
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Nelson Mandingo posted:The test isn't super hard but it is extremely ambiguous Exactly the idea. 
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Jun 25, 2016 03:38
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My guess is the Remain campaign simply struggled to convey how leaving the EU would affect the everyday lives of people. There was a lot of talk about macroeconomic problems that would arise, but it really needed to be distilled down to things like price of milk, working-class jobs etc. But the bigger problem, I think, is public polling. If polling surfaced that Leave was going to win, Remain would have taken it a lot more seriously. As it was, it seems everybody thought Remain would win.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:39
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Star Man posted:Racism is bad, but somehow ageism isn't. I wasn't arguing, I was suggesting a better smiley for your response.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:43
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Star Man posted:Racism is bad, but somehow ageism isn't. why should people get to make decisions about futures that they aren't going to be a part of?
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Jun 25, 2016 03:46
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Vegetable posted:My guess is the Remain campaign simply struggled to convey how leaving the EU would affect the everyday lives of people. There was a lot of talk about macroeconomic problems that would arise, but it really needed to be distilled down to things like price of milk, working-class jobs etc. I think the problem is people are easily swayed by lovely propaganda
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Jun 25, 2016 03:49
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Volkerball posted:why should people get to make decisions about futures that they aren't going to be a part of? why should people get to be part of nations they weren't born in?
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Jun 25, 2016 03:49
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Shipon posted:why should people get to be part of nations they weren't born in? Why should people get to be part of nations they were born in?
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Jun 25, 2016 03:51
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Volkerball posted:why should people get to make decisions about futures that they aren't going to be a part of? "Sarah Connor" posted:And now one road has become many. Though questions remain, we'll search for the answers together. But one thing we know for sure. The future is not set.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:52
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CommieGIR posted:I think the problem is people are easily swayed by lovely propaganda
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Jun 25, 2016 03:53
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Star Man posted:Racism is bad, but somehow ageism isn't. We don't let 5 year olds vote either you dolt. I don't think an age limit would be a good idea but your line of reasoning is moronic.
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Jun 25, 2016 03:54
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I want people to look at the 1st Scottish Referendum and compare it to the EU Referendum in terms of campaigning, results, reactions and the white papers.
There's a lot more but that's generally things that come to my mind and that's not even going into the more juicy parts like tourism, oil, exports and imports etc etc. And of course we have Nothern Ireland as well which is going to be interesting and worrysum if it gets anywhere with a possible referendum of unification. I mean I'm not expecting Troubles 2: Electric boogaloo but then I wasn't expecting a Brexit either  And god knows if Scotland gets involved considering there are talks with Sinn Fien and the SNP in how to deal with this.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:Isn't it the responsibility of the respective campaigns to make sure that the people know what the hell they're voting for (and voting their way)? For the first part: The latter tends to matter much more than the former. There's no legal requirement that political campaigns accurately inform people about the issues (they may be prevented from blatantly lying but it's easy to get around that by just making statements of opinion or conjecture) and it's often in your best interest as a candidate to muddy the waters as much as possible so you can win on simpler things like charisma. For the second part, generally yes but Cameron really hosed up. He could easily have set the threshold at a supermajority rather than 50% + 1, or hell just not held the loving referendum. There are reasons why a nation might sometimes have a vote to do something severe in various extreme circumstances, but the UK's economy and political situation is not nearly extreme enough to merit it. taqueso posted:Why should people get to be part of nations they were born in? Don't the Swiss actually do this? i.e. being born there does not immediately grant you citizenship. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jun 25, 2016 |
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Jun 25, 2016 04:01
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PT6A posted:Having a question like "I am aware that my vote can influence this election" wouldn't really be an intelligence test, just a way of determining whether you actually understand the purpose of what you're doing. People will just fill in the Yes box anyway no matter if they actually understand what they're voting about, so it's a waste of time all round.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:02
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Dumb Question Time: why does continuing to trade with the EU mean acquiescing to their authority on so many issues? The US has trade deals with EU countries, and last I checked we didn't agree to give permanent green cards to their members to make it happen.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:02
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^because of the single market https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y taqueso posted:Why should people get to be part of nations they were born in? I love this question.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:06
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/out-of-luckquote:1) If Brexit makes it look like the UK may split apart within 5 years, the opportunity costs of negotiating with the UK just are high. USTR isn't that large an office, so negotiations with the likes of EU states (TTIP) and China are probably going to take a higher priority when deciding how to use scarce resources. TPP will probably have to go back to the negotiating table somehow for another round of negotiations if it's going to pass the next Congress. A temporary US-UK deal may not be worth the manpower. If anything, we'll probably be more concerned about where to locate the UK's nukes that are currently located in Scotland. 
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Jun 25, 2016 04:06
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https://youtu.be/WPZn4rbiB8g
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Jun 25, 2016 04:07
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Craptacular! posted:Dumb Question Time: why does continuing to trade with the EU mean acquiescing to their authority on so many issues? Because the goal of the EU is to be more like the United States, a strong association of multiple independent states with open border and free trade.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:09
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Craptacular! posted:Dumb Question Time: why does continuing to trade with the EU mean acquiescing to their authority on so many issues? Basically it's because the US has a much stronger bargaining position than the UK when it comes to the EU market. The EU needs the UK but the UK needs the EU a lot more.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:10
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Craptacular! posted:Dumb Question Time: why does continuing to trade with the EU mean acquiescing to their authority on so many issues? Well, there's the fact that if you want to sell your product in another nation, you generally have to try to abide by their regulations (at least if you want to do it legally). This is true of just about anywhere. And EU is the UK's biggest customer by far since they're right across the channel. There's also the fact that this sort of shenanigan potentially weakens the EU and they need to demand a pound or two of flesh in return to prevent from looking weak. Weakness that may cause more exits until the EU is nothing but Germany and a few smaller nations. Mix this with the fact that the Brexit vote has already mauled the UK's reputation simply because the racist, nationalistic, jingoistic genie is now out of the bottle there's no clean or easy way out of this mess, and for the UK it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. Which means the UK is going to be rather weakened at the bargaining table and going to have a hard time keeping the EU from picking and choosing which pounds of flesh it gets.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:19
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Craptacular! posted:Dumb Question Time: why does continuing to trade with the EU mean acquiescing to their authority on so many issues? Leverage.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:27
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Vegetable posted:My guess is the Remain campaign simply struggled to convey how leaving the EU would affect the everyday lives of people. There was a lot of talk about macroeconomic problems that would arise, but it really needed to be distilled down to things like price of milk, working-class jobs etc. All I heard from the media in Australia was "It will be bad for trade, it will be bad for the stock market, it will be bad for RICH PEOPLE". I thought that was because the media here was only caring about that, but it sounds like that was what was being reported in the UK too.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:29
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Fangz posted:Actually a means a shitload of money just got drained out of the economy where it was being used to pay wages, fund research, grow businesses etc and instead turned into 'safe assets' to stuff under people's metaphorical mattresses. This stuff does matter, though the impact will take time to fully emerge. This is what happens in an actual recession, which is not what's happening yet. See how things go when markets reopen on Monday. Certainly from a global perspective this doesn't matter much in the long run, which is why ELEVENTY TRILLION DOLLARS WIPED OFF GLOBAL MARKETS is a nonsense headline. But even from a British perspective, the stock market =/= the economy. I mean, you guys are in for a rough time, but not because of the FTSE index.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:33
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Craptacular! posted:Dumb Question Time: why does continuing to trade with the EU mean acquiescing to their authority on so many issues? The US and EU don't have a customs union and don't have truely free, tariff free trade. Also, the EU needs the US market more than they need the UK market.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:37
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nm posted:The US and EU don't have a customs union and don't have truely free, tariff free trade. I for one, support closer ties between the U.S.A. and the E.U. Perhaps some sort of federal system of states that each follow individual laws unless they violate the federal rules and elect a president and representatives to the national body through a complicated, confusing system wherein no one actually votes directly for the President and most real power is held in numerous committees helmed by career politicians.
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Jun 25, 2016 04:40
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