|
I really like what they did with Safer Sephiroth in FFVII, making him stronger depending on how strong your team was and stuff you did before the battle. I mean, it's still FFVII so it's not super hard or anything but I wish other games took the idea and ran with it a bit more, I can't really think of anything all that similar.
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 16:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:44 |
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:Dragon Quest Heroes is also not on sale, SE just hates sales.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 16:50
|
|
|
Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song has a similar mechanic, though it's voluntary. You can sacrifice the Fatestones (generic MacGuffins) to the final boss in the final dungeon to power him up, all the way to making him a superboss with all of the stones. Not quite the same as the Safer Sephiroth thing because it isn't automatic, but I do like being able to voluntarily scale the difficulty of a fight to exactly where you want it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:I really like what they did with Safer Sephiroth in FFVII, making him stronger depending on how strong your team was and stuff you did before the battle. I mean, it's still FFVII so it's not super hard or anything but I wish other games took the idea and ran with it a bit more, I can't really think of anything all that similar. Well there was a whole Final Fantasy where enemy levels scale with you
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 16:58
|
|
|
Yeah, but it's just not quite the same. Harrow's right though, it is a very SaGa mechanic. Though, thinking about it, I suppose you could technically count bosses like Deus where you're supposed to weaken it by killing other stuff, even if it's kind of the inverse idea.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 17:04
|
|
|
Level was such a weird stat in FF8 its hard to call it an actual scaler. But Ultimecia has the most creative difficulty setting in that you can pick and choose which menu commands to unlock before fighting her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 17:17
|
|
|
The level scaling in FF8 caused a big argument with my best friend when I was a kid. I said Diablos had 8,000 HP and he said it was 6,000 and we were 100% convinced the other person was wrong. 'I USED SCAN I KNOW HE HAS 8,000.' 'I USED SCAN TOO. YOU'RE WRONG' Eventually we forgave each other and made real life triple triad cards of ourselves with A on all sides
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 17:26
|
|
|
There's so much I love about FF8. I love the idea of using magic as equipment (though it always makes me never want to cast spells which is kind of a shame). The level scaling is clever, if not implemented quite perfectly. The whole final dungeon and final battle sequence is fantastic. It has one of the best soundtracks in the series. Hell, I even like the story up until the orphanage thing. And yet the story is just so bad after Edea stops being the antagonist that it's still one of my last favorite games in the series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 17:44
|
|
|
Harrow posted:Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song has a similar mechanic, though it's voluntary. You can sacrifice the Fatestones (generic MacGuffins) to the final boss in the final dungeon to power him up, all the way to making him a superboss with all of the stones. Not quite the same as the Safer Sephiroth thing because it isn't automatic, but I do like being able to voluntarily scale the difficulty of a fight to exactly where you want it. Of note with this case, though, is the fact that any Fatestones you don't find are automatically placed on the altars by his servants. This means that the first time you beat through the game he's likely to have several of them, which makes the fight pretty tough. It would have been better if those you never encountered remained lost, but this is a SaGa game. Kawazu doesn't give a single gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 18:17
|
|
|
It helps that the first five Fatestones only give him a relatively small stat boost. After five, though, he starts getting extra turns and all sorts of nasty things. And I think only three Fatestones can ever be offered up automatically, so at worst on your first playthrough you have to deal with a slightly stronger Saruin but it's not very noticeable. According to a thing I just looked up, he's even capped at five Fatestones on your first playthrough no matter what you do. Even if you intentionally offer up more (which you can't do at an altar but can do by losing the easy Minion fights), it's impossible to fight a super-powered Saruin on the first playthrough. It's surprisingly forgiving.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
I've said it before but I still don't understand why they introduced level scaling in the one game where levels don't really matter. All you stats come from Junctions so those Level 30 enemies scaled to your base level 30 stats aren't going to pose a problem because you'll have Level 60 stats thanks to Junctions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
The level scaling in FF8 is a clever idea, but yeah, it's a weird implementation given how the rest of the game works. Part of it is that it's balanced around the idea that you're not going out of your way to draw or refine high numbers of spells at any point, and you're not level-grinding. If you do that, the game remains pretty challenging the whole way through. If you level grind but don't understand junctioning, you're going to screw yourself; if you understand the systems involved, you're just going to absolutely crush the game. You can get Water and Curaga so early and they're so strong when junctioned that the entire first two discs just fall right over. And after that, you've got access to even stronger spells through refining, and then the rest of the game just falls right over.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 18:45
|
|
|
My favorite part of FF8 was killing Ultima Weapon in a single turn and then getting two game overs to the final boss because she blew away the magic I had junctioned to my HP and then did a full party attack that did more than my new max HP value.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 19:34
|
|
|
The level scaling makes sense if it existed before refining was added. Without refining shenanigans, the most likely way to get high level magic is from high level monsters so it could have kept you on a curve if balanced tighter. As it is the game is just gutted about 2 hours in when your refining abilities come online and you bypass any sort of ramp up of magic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
I've been really itching to play a FF game lately. I've beaten 7, 8, and 10. I've gotten far in 9 and 12 but never got around to beating them. Which of the earlier games should I check out? Should I just start with the first and work my way up?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
Elderbean posted:I've been really itching to play a FF game lately. I've beaten 7, 8, and 10. I've gotten far in 9 and 12 but never got around to beating them. Which of the earlier games should I check out? Should I just start with the first and work my way up? do the FFV Four Job Fiesta
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 19:56
|
|
|
Also, is FFXIII as linear as the beginning seems to imply? I played it a bit years ago and it kinda seemed to be on rails.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
Elderbean posted:Also, is FFXIII as linear as the beginning seems to imply? I played it a bit years ago and it kinda seemed to be on rails. No more linear than 10. You walk down a hallway for 20 or so hours and then the game opens a bit more (though the difference is that in 13 you can't go back to all the old areas after the game opens up, you just kind of get dumped into a big field and suddenly sidequests exist) Also I'd disagree with doing the FF5 four job fiesta on your first playthrough because it seems silly to me to ignore a game's central mechanic the first time you play it. But yeah, 5 and 6 are both fantastic and you can't go wrong with either.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
Harrow posted:The level scaling in FF8 is a clever idea, but yeah, it's a weird implementation given how the rest of the game works. It always felt to me like level scaling in 8 was a patch over issues around junctioning. Like at one point in prototypes, they were testing the game and it had no level scaling and they realized junctioning was letting them steamroll everything hard so they introduced level-scaling to bring difficulty back into the game. Level scaling always begs the question "why have levels at all" and I'm sure whenever the idea was introduced, whether in my imagined sequence of events or much earlier in design, there must've been arguments on the team about it. The only good reason I can think of is "player expectations and psychology around make-numbers-bigger."
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Elderbean posted:Also, is FFXIII as linear as the beginning seems to imply? I played it a bit years ago and it kinda seemed to be on rails. It's the most linear game in the series by a mile. You battle in sections instead of a map you can revisit and there is absolutely nothing to do but battling. No NPCs, no towns, nothing. Gameplay will consist of running down a hallway to the next cutscene until the game is nearly over. FFXIII is a game that lives or dies by its story/characters. If you don't like the, you probably won't like XIII. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jun 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:It always felt to me like level scaling in 8 was a patch over issues around junctioning. Like at one point in prototypes, they were testing the game and it had no level scaling and they realized junctioning was letting them steamroll everything hard so they introduced level-scaling to bring difficulty back into the game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
I agree that XIII is super linear, but it's not especially more linear than X. Being able to backtrack through X's corridors for especially interesting reason doesn't make that game massively less linear. They both suck for that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Josuke Higashikata posted:I agree that XIII is super linear, but it's not especially more linear than X. Being able to backtrack through X's corridors for especially interesting reason doesn't make that game massively less linear. They both suck for that. X at least had sidequests that didn't consist entirely of battling, towns where you see how the people of the world live and NPCs to talk to even in what you can consider to be hallway dungeons, like the Mi'hen Highway. XIII has absolutely none of that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 21:18
|
|
|
Linearity doesn't make a game bad
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
I think I'll start with V then. Any pointers?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
Elderbean posted:I think I'll start with V then. Any pointers? Feel free to mess around with all the jobs, they're all at minimum interesting. The game is pretty easy so even just sticking with the most boring job setup possible will let you coast to the end game, but seriously seriously broken things abound in job system although some, like alchemist may not be readily apparent or like blue magic require way too much game knowledge to use at peak level. If you can play the GBA version rather than iPhone version I'd recommend that, as they have the same content the iPhone version is just uglier for no goshdarn reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 21:31
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:I really like what they did with Safer Sephiroth in FFVII, making him stronger depending on how strong your team was and stuff you did before the battle. I mean, it's still FFVII so it's not super hard or anything but I wish other games took the idea and ran with it a bit more, I can't really think of anything all that similar. I'm 80% sure that the final boss of XII does the same thing, and gets tougher at least based on the number of Espers you found. Now I'm having a hard time finding where I read that, though... Elderbean posted:I think I'll start with V then. Any pointers? Don't try to level all the jobs on everyone- you'll probably burn out. One of the reason the Four Job Fiesta isn't a bad choice for a first playthrough is that it forces you to focus on a set of jobs, so you don't get overwhelmed with options or the urge to grind.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:X at least had sidequests that didn't consist entirely of battling, towns where you see how the people of the world live and NPCs to talk to even in what you can consider to be hallway dungeons, like the Mi'hen Highway. XIII has absolutely none of that. Given the choice between no sidequests and the ultimate weapon garbage from X I think I'm okay with no sidequests
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 21:52
|
|
|
Help Im Alive posted:The level scaling in FF8 caused a big argument with my best friend when I was a kid. I said Diablos had 8,000 HP and he said it was 6,000 and we were 100% convinced the other person was wrong. all of this was a good post.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:FFXIII is a game that lives or dies by its story/characters. If you don't like the, you probably won't like XIII. this is completely wrong, as i love 13 but dont really care about the story or characters, just the combat system
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
in fact, i'd go as far to say you are the only person i have ever heard say that people would care about 13's disjointed story
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
I think FF13's story had promise. I even forgave its extreme linearity because it made sense--your characters are fugitives on the run from basically the whole world, so they're not going to stop to do sidequests. I don't even think it really fully falls apart until the ending just throws all narrative and character coherence out the window, but it also never quite works, either. It has some good moments, most of them on Gran Pulse if I remember correctly. But if I were to replay it, it'd be for the combat system for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 22:29
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:in fact, i'd go as far to say you are the only person i have ever heard say that people would care about 13's disjointed story XIII's story is dog poo poo but its characters are the only redeeming thing about the game apart from its music. Used to be "Sazh, maybe Fang, are the only tolerable characters." I've seen that opinion change a lot over the years so even old time punching bags like Snow and Hope have people who openly like them. Even if XIII's combat system was fun, I cannot recommend any RPG that is nothing but combat, especially since you are locked out of actually enjoying XIII's combat system for about 20 hours. You are stuck with two party members and a painfully limited selection of Paradigms. I don't see how anyone in the world could play through FFXIII on the strength of its gameplay until Chapter....10 when the gameplay actually becomes interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 22:38
|
|
|
Barudak posted:If you can play the GBA version rather than iPhone version I'd recommend that, as they have the same content the iPhone version is just uglier for no goshdarn reason. What's with the iPhone and Steam ports of the old FF games, anyway? The monsters look immaculately beautiful and then all the other art looks like it was done by an intern's 13 year old kid Boss sprite  Character sprite from same game 
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
Schwartzcough posted:I'm 80% sure that the final boss of XII does the same thing, and gets tougher at least based on the number of Espers you found. That boss was a weird fight. It seemed like I would suddenly take a huge chunk of damage for no reason many, many times throughout that fight. I swear I never saw him charging up an one of his attacks, or even saw the action he would do at the top of the screen. I was shocked when I somehow beat him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
lightning returns her purse to prada because she lives in paris now
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I don't see how anyone in the world could play through FFXIII on the strength of its gameplay until Chapter....10 when the gameplay actually becomes interesting. i could and did, checkmate atheist
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 23:17
|
|
|
Hamsterlady posted:Also I'd disagree with doing the FF5 four job fiesta on your first playthrough because it seems silly to me to ignore a game's central mechanic the first time you play it. But yeah, 5 and 6 are both fantastic and you can't go wrong with either. Plenty of people have played and completed FF5 for the first time doing the Fiesta. I wouldn't recommend doing anything but Normal to start (and even then that's slightly risky if you roll low-offense jobs), but it prevents people from getting overwhelmed with jobs and encourages replay value to try out the other jobs. Hamsterlady posted:What's with the iPhone and Steam ports of the old FF games, anyway? The monsters look immaculately beautiful and then all the other art looks like it was done by an intern's 13 year old kid And the worst part is they didn't even redo the enemy sprites for FF6 like they did 5. They just slapped a filter over the old sprites and called it a day. Literally the only graphics that look good in the FF6 remake are the battle backgrounds.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:It always felt to me like level scaling in 8 was a patch over issues around junctioning. Like at one point in prototypes, they were testing the game and it had no level scaling and they realized junctioning was letting them steamroll everything hard so they introduced level-scaling to bring difficulty back into the game. Enemy stats don't scale uniformly with the player, or with each other, so different monsters might become more or less threatening as you progress. They can also have different loot, magic, and devour effects at low/med/high levels, and you can learn Lv Up/Down abilities to manipulate your risk-reward in a battle. None of this is severe enough to make any difference against refinement or grinding for stats, but it's enough that I can see what they were going for and I think it could work, theoretically, if they tried it again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2016 01:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:44 |
|
|
Armitage posted:That boss was a weird fight. It seemed like I would suddenly take a huge chunk of damage for no reason many, many times throughout that fight. I swear I never saw him charging up an one of his attacks, or even saw the action he would do at the top of the screen. I was shocked when I somehow beat him. He has a "normal" attack that's basically a defense-ignoring gunshot. I think it can hit you anywhere and there's not really poo poo you can do about it. I think he was one-shotting my guys with that, leading to a whole lot of phoenix downing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2016 01:42
|
|