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dmboogie posted:It was permanently locked two years ago. ...dang it's been a while since I looked at that forum. Is Zorak is even still mod? e: dmboogie, you should totally be the one to come guest commentate and defend the game, starting with why you chose to make your avatar the most boring character of all. Anoia fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 06:05
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Nope they chased him off a while ago. It's Bad Seafood now, who I think used to have a different name?
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Jul 28, 2016 06:14
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Anoia posted:e: dmboogie, you should totally be the one to come guest commentate and defend the game, starting with why you chose to make your avatar the most boring character of all. He looks cute, even if he might have a John face.  He does have some fun character moments later on, too.
dmboogie fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 06:30
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EponymousMrYar posted:It's a format/pacing problem. Because of the character-based VN format, character intros and development are all over the place and because it's so slow paced, it takes too long to get to the real interesting meat (for a 6-8/9 hour game, you need to do more in 1/3rd that time than this game has currently.) Yeah, I'm definitely feeling this about the game. Even some of the weird creepy poo poo could be potentially interesting if approached the right way (why exactly are they apparently cranking out lolibots? what's going on with Lilim AI creation such that you'd get one where they'd want to be a child prostitute?), but since they're just running through intros and such it doesn't grab the reader so well. I feel like we're just starting to get hints of something interesting happening now with whatever's up with the bank, but I guess we'll see if they cock that up next episode. Also, I have to wonder if they forgot their money scale with Streaming-chan; she's charging $99.99 a month for her premium service, which is not quite the price of two Cup o' Noodles. So either someone screwed that up (especially jarring after that whole bit with Anime George Costanza) or naked camgirl stuff is real cheap in the future.
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Jul 28, 2016 06:54
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Good god, Dorothy... Dorothy only exists for pandering to anime lolicons. Now I'll be honest, I can see where a sentient loli sex-bot could fit into a dystopian cyberpunk future, just not in the way they present it. For one the ages they describe her model as looking (well as far as I can recall from elementary school sex education nearly two decades ago) as a girl between two of the the most inconsistent ages for any single "look" to the female body, and maybe that's what they were going for so the perverts could put their own spin on how she actually looks, but that doesn't change that holy poo poo that's still unrealistically young for even the most hosed up dystopian settings where people live past the age of 25. Like youngest I can imagine a dystopian setting tastefully using a character like that would be a visual 14-15, and mostly because, well as far as I know from hearsay age of consent reaches that low in at least one first world country and many girls would look developed enough by that age that it would be viable that no one would even care and therefore some sexbots would be manufactured to look that way simply because it's just another common "look" for the prostitutes the sex-bots would likely be competing with. Another issue with the character is that it's done in the opposite of tastefully. It's immediately put out that this is the character's main trait "sentient, by choice loli sex-bot", "sex-crazed" basically, and "way too intelligent and self-aware" for the character themselves to not immediately call bullshit on their own existence. The character is a lovely waifu insert designed to be a mascot to get latched onto by a very specific subset of anime fans, because she only hits the "complete lolicon pervert who in reality likely wants to sleep with a child" nerve, she lacks anything else that would typically make any non-that anime fan who has a passing interest in loli characters for other reasons (such as loli fans I've heard saying they just generally just like cute things or enjoy the childish outlooks loli characters sometimes appeal to) even enjoy her. Hell she probably throws off some of those perverts because of how "tsundere" she'd likely be in reality, and they aren't into that aspect. Overall she just feels like such a total trainwreck of a character in all points to myself and likely the rest of you for various reasons, though many overlapping ones. In terms of just what we've seen Dorothy is a failure of a character in almost all respects of writing and design, to the point that she is illogical as a character while being self-aware of her role as a stereotype, except sexualizing the bodies of very young girls, and I feel weird that some people defended the character in this thread and I'm feeling the need to point this out. Again I think her base premise of loli sex-bot isn't completely off the rails, but Dorothy as a character is so off the mark on hitting those rails I wouldn't even be able to connect her to anything that would be. Edit: Now of course these aren't what all my problems with her boil down to, I was just trying to frame it against the backdrop of both "dystopian future" and "anime game". Gigify fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 06:59
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Ayndin posted:(why exactly are they apparently cranking out lolibots? what's going on with Lilim AI creation such that you'd get one where they'd want to be a child prostitute?) The answer to both of these is, if I've understood the dialog correctly, Lilim are "true" AI in the sci-fi sense, and are essentially meant to grow naturally from a "child" state, much like a human would. Think something like that TNG episode where Data builds himself a child, but lovely animu. One can then assume that, like humans, Lilim can pick up some weird loving ideas growing up. As has been said, if it weren't for how poorly it's all written, the premise makes enough sense that it could be interesting.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:06
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I can totally get why you'd think Dorothy's inclusion in the game at all is shittily handled and tasteless, but as a character she's really trying just to make the best out of her lovely situation and the crux of her character development has literally nothing to do with the sex stuff anyway. Also, the Gigify's post managed to be even creepier than any of the people defending Dororthy imo.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:07
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EclecticTastes posted:The answer to both of these is, if I've understood the dialog correctly, Lilim are "true" AI in the sci-fi sense, and are essentially meant to grow naturally from a "child" state, much like a human would. Think something like that TNG episode where Data builds himself a child, but lovely animu. One can then assume that, like humans, Lilim can pick up some weird loving ideas growing up. As has been said, if it weren't for how poorly it's all written, the premise makes enough sense that it could be interesting. It's frustrating how this game has kernels of good ideas that are just hammered into paste.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:10
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EclecticTastes posted:The answer to both of these is, if I've understood the dialog correctly, Lilim are "true" AI in the sci-fi sense, and are essentially meant to grow naturally from a "child" state, much like a human would. Think something like that TNG episode where Data builds himself a child, but lovely animu. One can then assume that, like humans, Lilim can pick up some weird loving ideas growing up. As has been said, if it weren't for how poorly it's all written, the premise makes enough sense that it could be interesting. Yeah that's how I've read into it as well, however if a robot with the whole unlimited AI sentience and free will deal had the sense to see a, likely small in comparison to the whole, subset in the prostitution market they could exploit this world would have been taken over by them already. I mean if child prostitution in this world isn't legal then neither would be prostitution of a sentient robot with a child's body unless there were divergent laws covering the AI "species" and all other sentient species, and I honestly don't see any case where a non-unified law system wouldn't be a thing if humans or human developed AI/genetically engineered sentient animals were a thing. Unless the ruling faction was non-human and made humans a sort of "subspecies" with less rights humans just wouldn't ever let something like that divergence occur.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:13
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dmboogie posted:I can totally get why you'd think Dorothy's inclusion in the game at all is shittily handled and tasteless, but as a character she's really trying just to make the best out of her lovely situation I will grant, "economic pressure forces android girl to forgo getting an actual adult body in order to make ends meet by catering to pedos" could be written as an interesting metaphor for how working in the sex industry can force people into making painful and dehumanizing decisions just to pay the bills. But it's not, I don't think the writer even considered that angle, and the fact that she's the games mascot raises all manner of uncomfortable implications. Like I said, if someone competent had written all this stuff, it's all got potential to be good. But, untapped potential doesn't make a good game. EDIT: To answer Gigify's confusion, it's likely that the setting's laws distinguish Lilim by whether or not they've passed the "Maturity Tests" Dorothy mentions, regardless of which chassis they're stored in. That means the game is set in a world where "No but but but it's okay because she actually has an adult mind in a child's body" is codified into law and that is loving awful. Every question this game raises has a terrible, painful answer. EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 07:15
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If the game were willing to poke some amount of fun at the audience it's appealing to, then it would be much better. Instead, it's giving them everything that they want.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:16
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dmboogie posted:I can totally get why you'd think Dorothy's inclusion in the game at all is shittily handled and tasteless, but as a character she's really trying just to make the best out of her lovely situation and the crux of her character development has literally nothing to do with the sex stuff anyway. Creepy as in my analysis or creepy as in the idea presented? I didn't mean to come off as creepy, I'm just a writer and I could see how someone skilled could make it work without making it seem disturbing, though it'd have to be a subtle piece of world building and not this anime leg-humping drivel.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:17
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dmboogie posted:I can totally get why you'd think Dorothy's inclusion in the game at all is shittily handled and tasteless, but as a character she's really trying just to make the best out of her lovely situation and the crux of her character development has literally nothing to do with the sex stuff anyway. Anoia posted:It's frustrating how this game has kernels of good ideas that are just hammered into paste. Y-Hat posted:If the game were willing to poke some amount of fun at the audience it's appealing to, then it would be much better. Instead, it's giving them everything that they want.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:19
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Gigify posted:Creepy as in my analysis or creepy as in the idea presented? I didn't mean to come off as creepy, I'm just a writer and I could see how someone skilled could make it work without making it seem disturbing, though it'd have to be a subtle piece of world building and not this anime leg-humping drivel. "Loli" is a gross word, and I just find it disgusting, analysis or not, to try to figure out if she legitimately appeals to pedos?? Y-Hat posted:If the game were willing to poke some amount of fun at the audience it's appealing to, then it would be much better. Instead, it's giving them everything that they want. IIRC the game outright calls anyone who would use her services a sick, horrible person.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:23
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EclecticTastes posted:EDIT: To answer Gigify's confusion, it's likely that the setting's laws distinguish Lilim by whether or not they've passed the "Maturity Tests" Dorothy mentions, regardless of which chassis they're stored in. That means the game is set in a world where "No but but but it's okay because she actually has an adult mind in a child's body" is codified into law and that is loving awful. Every question this game raises has a terrible, painful answer. Yeah see but that's the kind of world-building I'm even calling into question as unrealistic in this scenario. I mean they have to design these things with initially 10-13 or whatever year old bodies in the first place for a reason, and the only logical reason is sexual or exploitative in some way. If these things have been around for any extended period of time, which they obviously have, then even in a dystopian future laws would be around to humanize them to deal with the exploitative nature of their development cycles unless humans weren't the ruling factor. Even if those laws were something like "Lilim may not engage in sexual or other exploitative endevours with other species unless they have upgraded to a mature body-type" as a justification for why they even HAVE a mature body type model they "graduate" into in the first place. My issue with Lilim in general is that there is no thought put into the entire concept of sentient androids in this game and the whole "start in a younger body" thing is entirely just there to excuse an "older than she looks" child prostitute. There's no world building around the entire idea of a whole sentient species.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:28
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dmboogie posted:"Loli" is a gross word, and I just find it disgusting, analysis or not, to try to figure out if she legitimately appeals to pedos?? Oh I'm not trying to figure it out, I'm stating as my subjective opinion that that is at least part of her purpose due to some specific intentions of design on the creators part and that I don't think she appeals to the "loli" crowd as a whole because I have been chewed out enough about anime waifus that I won't make that mistake. Hey man, I mean if you like her and you're not a pedo then sure, that's gonna happen in any case. I got nothing against you, and for all I know the character gains more depth later on. Just because something was designed to be appealing to one group doesn't mean if can't appeal to others. My analysis parts were more on the writing and plausibility in the established world rather than the specifics of her design anyway. The specific bits were more just my opinion than anything I can back up with facts.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:41
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dmboogie posted:IIRC the game outright calls anyone who would use her services a sick, horrible person. Wait, no it's not. Not at all. Ugh I need a shower now.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:50
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I mentioned earlier that putting the mentally/emotionally immature AI in a child body is probably meant to be a defense against people damaging them before they're mature, and also as a way to reduce the costs of producing them, because if they do get destroyed before they're mature it's less resources used. Plus once they are mature it's probably an upgrade not an entirely new body so again effective use of materials. This doesn't make it good but I can think of reasons for immature AI to be put into immature bodies beyond exploitation. For similar reasons I can see that putting an immature AI in a mature body could be equally exploitative, after all it's a lot more likely an adult looking robot would get propositioned or hit on compared to a child looking robot and they have apparently the mentality of young children. So which is more disturbing, and adult mind in a child body or a child mind in an adult body. Basically my argument is that an immature AI learns like a child and thus looks like a child so as to garner reactions from normal people that would allow them to develop into healthy mature AI, who then look like adults because they are in fact adults. Dorothy is different because she is as mentioned a mature AI who chooses to look like a child to cater to a specific audience and thus get paid more. I imagine the legality is that as long as the AI is mature the law doesn't actually care about the body, so Dorothy's character in reverse would actually be illegal. Basically child AI get child bodies so that people will treat them like children, adult AI get adult bodies so they will be treated like adults. Dorothy is a weirdo who lives in the bad side of town and wants to be paid extra by creeps. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 07:52
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The reason for why there are catpeople and the reason for why they model child-like robots for pleasure in this VN's universe are both ridiculous and only serve to bring up more questions. The way I see it, the creators just wanted catwomen and lolibots and made up flimsy excuses for why both of them exist.
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Jul 28, 2016 07:59
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Y-Hat posted:The reason for why there are catpeople and the reason for why they model child-like robots for pleasure in this VN's universe are both ridiculous and only serve to bring up more questions. The way I see it, the creators just wanted catwomen and lolibots and made up flimsy excuses for why both of them exist. The catperson justification was taken from Read Only Memories, (which has some crossovers with this game) where it's even more stupid. Here Stella mentions it once and that's it and is generally chill, in ROM the game uses it as an excuse to call you racist against furries.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:19
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mentioned earlier that putting the mentally/emotionally immature AI in a child body is probably meant to be a defense against people damaging them before they're mature, and also as a way to reduce the costs of producing them, because if they do get destroyed before they're mature it's less resources used. Plus once they are mature it's probably an upgrade not an entirely new body so again effective use of materials. But then we get the plot point that the bodies are recyclable. This would mean that maintaining a healthy supply of "young" bodies through standard maintenance and retirement/replacement, and creating a steady supply of "adult" bodies would be more viable and resource efficient. So there would be a constant supply of new bodies from the "graduating" young bodies to rectify the cost of the initial bodies used to "train" the AI. As well as the likelihood that after a decade or two the rate at which new AI were developed would realistically stagger under these standards in nearly any condition, as that would conceivably be enough time for a rapidly developing race of AI, who's development cycle would likely become overseen by the AI themselves, to outpace the human population by far. I mean there's no context for a sentient AI species to exist in the first place; they exist to have sentient androids in this universe. Whatever power is producing them isn't making any conceivable profit off of it past their existence in this universe. The adult bodies also have a different model number than the child bodies, it's a small plot point but it shows that they do indeed graduate into entirely different bodies. I totally get the idea of using child bodies to influence the development of the AI through it's "childhood", but these "child AI" are almost certainly not experiencing their "childhoods" in the same context as human children, likely their entire "childhood" would be under the context of a factory or private schooling system because the other option makes no sense in this universe. Think about it, releasing countless child AIs into the world to develop at a much faster rate than human children do just doesn't make sense, that poo poo would be controlled or would lead to an apocalypse. I understand the thought of the loopholes in the basic sense of world-building, but the universe as presented has not given any reason why those laws would be in place, and there is no world-building reason for the premise to even exist, and that's my point. The creators didn't put any thought into the whole idea of a sentient android species. Robot girls for the sake of robot girls, loli robot prostitute because anime. I mean otherwise Dorothy would only be living in the "bad side of town" by choice, and the whole idea of being in a younger body would make more sense as an afterthought of a mature AI after having to experience those conditions and migrating backwards into such a body later, which would make for a much more interesting character capable of showing the whole idea of "maybe this is immoral but that's what I have to do because of what my life came to". This isn't what it's presented as at all, and as it's presented the entire premise makes no sense even in-universe. Edit: Y-Hat posted:The reason for why there are catpeople and the reason for why they model child-like robots for pleasure in this VN's universe are both ridiculous and only serve to bring up more questions. The way I see it, the creators just wanted catwomen and lolibots and made up flimsy excuses for why both of them exist. Yeah basically, there's no way to actually rationalize this stuff with what is given. Edit Numero 2-o: Hell that's not even to explain why the child bodies are made anatomically correct in-universe to the point that females have at least one waste hole modeled after an anus and also a hole which has the sole purpose of sexual reproduction for adults. Which isn't even directly addressed (besides the whole anus thing being indirectly referenced by the child-droid itself) but is consequence of having a child-body android as a prostitute. Gigify fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 08:34
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Lord_Magmar posted:I mentioned earlier that putting the mentally/emotionally immature AI in a child body is probably meant to be a defense against people damaging them before they're mature, and also as a way to reduce the costs of producing them, because if they do get destroyed before they're mature it's less resources used. Plus once they are mature it's probably an upgrade not an entirely new body so again effective use of materials. Ghost in the Shell did this, to an extent. There was this whole case about "ghost dubbing", or copying people's consciousness over to AI, being an incredibly illegal thing that was of course being used for sex dolls. Made for a more "sophisticated" experience than homegrown AI, supposedly. There was musing on whether not not even an immature AI copy's suffering in the sex trade really mattered... but then if the original was dead, and a traumatized copy was all was that remained, what then? Great series, GitS.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:35
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dmboogie posted:The catperson justification was taken from Read Only Memories, (which has some crossovers with this game) where it's even more stupid. Here Stella mentions it once and that's it and is generally chill, in ROM the game uses it as an excuse to call you racist against furries. It's really fascinating to me how people who love this game hate the jokes in ROM. Or just hate ROM in general.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:41
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Y-Hat posted:The reason for why there are catpeople and the reason for why they model child-like robots for pleasure in this VN's universe are both ridiculous and only serve to bring up more questions. The way I see it, the creators just wanted catwomen and lolibots and made up flimsy excuses for why both of them exist. Oh gently caress it just occurred to me why are the pedo-bots anatomically correct in the first place?! 
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Jul 28, 2016 08:51
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I love this game, I think its a really fun and interesting take on a visual novel and I am a sucker for games where you influence the dialogue in subtle ways where the effect isn't obvious. I also kind of like Dorothy as a character. She's cute and enthusiastic and clearly loves her job, and passionate people are always fun to be around. But she could have been handled a lot better. This is a dystopian cyberpunk future and I can absolutely believe that in a future this shittty, there is a higher demand for sex workers. People gotta unwind somehow I guess. I can also believe that in this same lovely future there are some sick people out there who want to live out some of their less socially acceptable fantasies. Hell, those people exist now. I can also believe that, in a future where its possible, that sentient and intelligent AIs who are in sex work would want to cater to these people because its a niche that not a lot of people are catering to, for obvious reasons. That's where it falls apart for me. It would be so much more realistic to me if Dorothy acknowledged that the people who seek her services specifically for the way she looks are a little sick in the head. She would be a much deeper and interesting character if she knew and was completely aware that she was only really appealing to pedos and was disgusted by it, and had to try to justify it both to herself and to other people, either as "if they hire me that's a real human child they won't hurt" or "this is what I have to do to keep on doing my job". That would make her really interesting and be a depressing, but cool way of showing just how hosed up this world has become. Hell, maybe that does come up later in the game. Maybe the LP will make different choices that I did and maybe she opens up about something to this effect. But from my experience with the game, she's cute and fun as a person but as a character in a piece of media she could be a lot better. Anoia posted:It's really fascinating to me how people who love this game hate the jokes in ROM. Or just hate ROM in general. Hi its me, I'm the person who likes this game and hated ROM. That's a ramble for another day though.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:55
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EclecticTastes posted:Oh gently caress it just occurred to me why are the pedo-bots anatomically correct in the first place?! That might be something Dorothy had done, but at this point I'm inclined to not give the writing the benefit of the doubt. I may be supplying reasons for the child body robots but that's because I find theoretical world-building interesting. Although a logical reason is that they use food and liquids as fuel and thus have waste removal systems modelled after the ones humans already have.
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Jul 28, 2016 08:56
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Lord_Magmar posted:That might be something Dorothy had done, but at this point I'm inclined to not give the writing the benefit of the doubt. I may be supplying reasons for the child body robots but that's because I find theoretical world-building interesting. That's half the problem with theoretical world-building as a profession through being an actual writer, though. You don't have the luxury of inserting your own explanations that don't entirely click with what's presented. When you're trying to build a coherent world from scratch you have to be sure to either address these sorts of obvious issues, or you have to write it in a way where they aren't brought into question. This game does neither of these, which is very shoddy writing and design. If the author hasn't justified it through their own work, and there are things that contradict rational theory in what it has presented, you have to recognize that so as to better understand world-building to put into your own practice. I mean as a fun practice I get it, that's what got me into writing as a kid, but it quickly becomes much more complicated when you get to poorly written worlds like this one. Sadly, though, because the basic premise is great even including all the varieties of character despite how hard it would be to rationalize and yet not invalidate plausible reason for cat-people and sentient corgis that are both entirely due to genetic manipulation by humans without calling into question much deeper issues presented by their existence. But then the game just glosses over their existence with incredibly flimsy premises that partially invalidate the plausibility of their existence in the same breath they're introduced. It just contradicts itself and writes out plausible explanations for the world actively instead of leaving them vague like more complete works do. Gigify fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 09:07
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I think that Dorothy and Cat-girl would work better as backstories if they swapped. Cat-girl is a robotic prostitute specifically targeting a fetish, which cuts out the question of why they make child bodies for the robots and is arguably an easier premise to accept. Meanwhile Dorothy is a middle-age woman who went to get nano-bot plastic surgery to look 21 and instead looks 12 due to either a weird biological reaction to process or faulty programming in the robots, proceed with whatever plot-line is most interesting for such a character.
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Jul 28, 2016 11:10
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Faerie Fortune posted:This is a dystopian cyberpunk future As long as the dystopian sci-fi trappings are used for nothing but cheap pandering, it's not cyberpunk. It's Second Life. The game might insist all day that it's a hard world, but if you only ever read that on the news then it doesn't matter in the slightest. It hasn't even mattered that Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 11:15
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EclecticTastes posted:The answer to both of these is, if I've understood the dialog correctly, Lilim are "true" AI in the sci-fi sense, and are essentially meant to grow naturally from a "child" state, much like a human would. Think something like that TNG episode where Data builds himself a child, but lovely animu. One can then assume that, like humans, Lilim can pick up some weird loving ideas growing up. As has been said, if it weren't for how poorly it's all written, the premise makes enough sense that it could be interesting. I did remember them saying that Dorothy's model has to grow up, but I didn't take that as all Lilim going through that process necessarily, just her make. Either way it makes for an interesting setting for them to promptly do nothing/very little with! Anoia posted:It's frustrating how this game has kernels of good ideas that are just hammered into paste. Increasingly my feelings watching this. I was under no illusions that this game was a visual novel when I first read about it and the premise sounded real interesting, but actually seeing what they've done with it in terms of exploring the world? I'm glad I hadn't picked it up yet. Maybe later in the game it'll get better after they've cut through all the intro drivel, but my hopes aren't too high.
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Jul 28, 2016 14:53
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I won't begin to declare ROM a magnum opus by any stretch, it's got its own problems. But of course I'm also biased in that its dev team was largely queer, and I respect what they were trying to do with the game. If your complaint is it's a bit too cheerful in outlook with its cyberpunk future, and this one dimensionally edgy load of tripe is what you consider a good answer to that (and it does seem like someone played played ROM and said "You know what's missing? Sex robots! Lots of them!" among other things) come the gently caress on.
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Jul 28, 2016 15:02
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dmboogie posted:the crux of her character development has literally nothing to do with the sex stuff anyway. So what you are saying is that they could have made her anything else and not affected her story in any way. I'm not sure this is a point in it's favour?
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Jul 28, 2016 15:24
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Anoia posted:I won't begin to declare ROM a magnum opus by any stretch, it's got its own problems. But of course I'm also biased in that its dev team was largely queer, and I respect what they were trying to do with the game. Er, did anyone in the thread actually say that ROM was too cheerful?
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Jul 28, 2016 16:10
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I started on this in the video, but I'll repeat it. The reason a lot of people like only one of ROM or valhalla is that they are a political dichotomy. One aims at tumblr, the other at 4chan. Both games bend over backwards to cater to those sensibilities, and even take shots at the other side. The one you like more probably indicates your political leanings in that respect. I honest don't like either game that much, but I guess I like ROM more. Its low points I could usually roll my eyes through. It was actually their really poor understanding of technology that put me off the most.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:07
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In the superfuture, 4chan and tumblr became political parties after Trump became president. No wonder Vallhalla is set in a dystopian future.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:13
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Pavlov posted:I started on this in the video, but I'll repeat it. The reason a lot of people like only one of ROM or valhalla is that they are a political dichotomy. One aims at tumblr, the other at 4chan. Both games bend over backwards to cater to those sensibilities, and even take shots at the other side. The one you like more probably indicates your political leanings in that respect. I like tumblr and dislike 4chan. This game actually has LGBT characters so it's not like it's anti-tumblr either? The "Socal Justice Warriors" was a dumb pun but that's all it really is, the game is not about "the eviiiil SJWs". Anoia posted:I won't begin to declare ROM a magnum opus by any stretch, it's got its own problems. But of course I'm also biased in that its dev team was largely queer, and I respect what they were trying to do with the game. I don't like how, in a future where everyone was wonderfully tolerant (that I definitely don't have a problem with) they still made it about discrimination, but not even against any real world oppressed groups, but furries. Furries that become that way through choice, shoehorned illness babies aside. Zenithe posted:So what you are saying is that they could have made her anything else and not affected her story in any way. I'm not sure this is a point in it's favour? I'm just trying to say she isn't one-note. 
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Jul 28, 2016 17:14
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dmboogie posted:I like tumblr and dislike 4chan. This game actually has LGBT characters so it's not like it's anti-tumblr either? The "Socal Justice Warriors" was a dumb pun but that's all it really is, the game is not about "the eviiiil SJWs". I'm talking less about the sites themselves, and more about the vague ideologies that have embedded themselves there. This game doesn't seem to have LGBT characters as much as it has lesbians in it. That seems to be more about shipping anime girls together than it is inclusion. I think we get to see the game's peculiar take gender identity stuff in an episode or two. I got the sense the devs probably do have a bone to pick with SJWs though. Right now it's a lot of little stuff. The White Knights that seem poised to be literal PC police. The girl who's loudest character trait was her false rape accusations. The offhand jabs and something about swimsuits? I forget that bit. We'll have to see if it keeps coming up. I have a feeling it will.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:47
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I think the whole "Socal Justice Warriors" pun would have worked better if they actually spelled it right instead of being a super thinly veiled pun. I mean it's not like the "White Knights" are spelled "Wite Knights" or "White Nights" or anything like that. Granted it wouldn't have worked much better, but it would be better.
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Jul 28, 2016 17:51
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dmboogie posted:a six-hour game I have no idea whether to count this as strike #512, or a small mercy
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Jul 28, 2016 18:12
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drkeiscool posted:Er, did anyone in the thread actually say that ROM was too cheerful? I've been looking across other discussions about the two and no longer remember what was touched on here, but people seem to get the idea that because ROM doesn't go certain places with its subject matter, it might as well be cyberpunk lollipops and rainbows. It's an asinine argument, I know. Really Pants posted:I have no idea whether to count this as strike #512, or a small mercy And at $15 for the full game that's almost $5 an hour! Almost just like being a real bartender who's getting really lovely tips one night! Anoia fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 18:23
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