Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Canada Housing/Debt: Trust me, I'm a landlord.

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

quote:

I'm 24, make $140,000 a year and own two homes. I have no regrets

In 2012, I was 20 years old and studying orchestral percussion at York University. I�d been in the program for two years, and it was time to take the next step: I had applied to Juilliard and was preparing for my audition. Playing orchestral arrangements takes a certain degree of technical accomplishment, but it�s mostly about soul.

At the time, my brother, an elevator technician, had put me in touch with someone who had a lead on a job in the business. I�d applied, not really believing I�d ever get it. It�s a great trade, with high earning potential. You can arrange to work a lot of extra hours, and that�s where the money really kicks in. My brother went into it right out of school, so I�d had a few years to see how much fun he was having. He was making good money and working hard.

That Christmas, I went home to visit my family. One day, my dad walked into the kitchen. He had this look on his face. You know, the one where you just think, �Uh-oh, what did I do? What�s wrong?� Dad said, �Okay, Matthew. Sit down. I have some information for you. I know this may be hard to decide, but I got a message for you about that job: it�s yours if you want to have it.� I was like, Oh poo poo.

I agonized over the decision. I knew that if I were to continue music for the next couple years, I�d be broke. I�d rack up thousands of dollars in debt�the tuition alone at Juillard is nearly $40,000�and I wouldn�t even be able to practice the drums. The school made it easier to rent my orchestral instruments, and I probably wouldn�t be able to buy my own once I left.

I also considered the job market: there aren�t a lot of positions out there for orchestral drummers. In the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, for example, there�s a principal, a backup, maybe, and that�s it. Once you�re in, you�re there for 30 or 40 years. There are a lot of percussionists competing for those spots, and I figured my chances were slim.

Two weeks later, I made my decision. I decided to skip my audition for Juilliard. I called it quits.

I started as an apprentice elevator technician, making $14 an hour. You have to put a lot of hours before you start making real money. My first year, I lived like any other 20-year-old. I was drinking and going out all the time. I was part of a core group of four guys, and we�d party a few times a week. We were just blowing money�almost all of us still lived with our parents at that point. When my brother bought a house in Scarborough, it became the party zone. Then we started going out downtown, and things got expensive. We went drinking at the Ritz once or twice, but nothing too crazy. There were only a couple of special nights where we dropped more than $1,000. Alcohol is expensive.

That lifestyle got old after about a year, and I started picking up books about financial planning. I read The Wealthy Barber, by David Chilton, in a day. After that, I made budget sheets and kept track of how much money I was spending. I was spending 80 to 90 per cent of my income on going out. Once I started seeing how much money I was throwing away, I was like, �Holy crap.� I reined it in, and started spending time jamming with my band instead of going out. I brought lunch to work and counted every dollar.

I decided that instead of spending all my money, I should invest it. I was determined to buy a house. I get my real estate sense from my parents. They own four properties, including our family home in Ajax. Once I had some money saved, I started looking at properties. I looked at maybe 15 houses before I found the one. It was 3,000 square feet, on a half-acre lot in Oshawa, with a big wrap-around porch. I fell in love with the gorgeous kitchen, which had a huge island, wall-to-wall cabinets and a gas range. In 2014, just after my 22nd birthday, I closed on the house for $340,000, and put five per cent down.

After I�d moved in, a friend needed a place to stay, so I rented a room to him for $500 a month. He�s like a brother to me, so it wasn�t about making an income from his rent. But living with him made me realize that having roommates wasn�t so bad. Eight months later, I decided to renovate the basement into another rental unit. I put about $15,000 into the overhaul, moved into the basement and leased the two bedrooms upstairs to cover the reno costs. The two tenants upstairs were girls in their 20s, just a little younger than I was at the time. When I met their parents, there were big question marks on their faces, as if to say, �This is your landlord?�

The tenants who live there now pay $1,800 a month all in, which covers my mortgage and the taxes on the property. In total, I�ve invested $355,000 in the house. The market moves fast, so I believe it�s better to put five per cent down while you�re young instead of saving for 10 per cent. I�m glad I decided to grow equity instead of just putting money in the bank.�

Not that I have anything against saving. I tend to put about $2,000 a month away. I usually work around 60 hours a week, including on-call, but some weeks I can get it up to 70. I�m making around $50 an hour these days�more with overtime. My income fluctuates a bit, but as it stands I�m on track to make about $140,000 this year.

Next month I�ll be turning 25. I just bought my second property�I moved into a condo on the Esplanade two weeks ago. The place was $474,000, for about 600 square feet, about the size of the kitchen in my house in Oshawa. I wanted to buy a house in Toronto, because the condo market moves so slowly, but I love the neighbourhood, and my brother lives in the same building. I figure I�m gaining a few hours off my life back every day by not having to commute downtown for work, especially given that I work on-call so much. And I want to buy another property before I turn 27. Then, when I�m 30 or so and ready to have kids, I can move out of Toronto and have a huge home for my family.

http://torontolife.com/city/life/im-24-i-make-140000-a-year-and-i-own-two-homes-i-dont-regret-a-thing/

why don't u all just pull urselves up by your bootstraps like i did

# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:13

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# ? May 9, 2024 06:56

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

are torontonians more insufferable than vancouverites? I didn't think that could be possible

# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:14

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

ah okay, just get your family to hook you up with a well paying job with security. Got it.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:30

quaint bucket: Nov 29, 2007

peter banana posted:

ah okay, just get your family to hook you up with a well paying job with security. Got it.

Summary:

"My brother got me in touch with a lead on a job. It was my dad but let me tell you about how I want to buy a third house before I turn 27"

# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:38

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

lol that he's bragging about owning a house in Oshawa.

If you can afford a computer to post here, you too could get a mortgage in Oshawa.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:38

MickeyFinn: May 8, 2007; Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

namaste faggots posted:

https://twitter.com/financialpost/status/768841050114953218?s=09
Oh up to 30%?

quote:
But she said the bank continues to view the residential mortgage book to be a �very good product� and is not concerned about markets such as Vancouver and Toronto where home prices have been rising rapidly.

�When we look at our greater Toronto and Vancouver markets, we have better [credit] scores than the national average, lower at origination loan to values, our serious arrear rates are much lower than our overall portfolio, and so the credit quality is very high in these particular segments,� she said.

�In fact, as we get worried about where the economy might be headed and the leveraged Canadian consumer, I think the area you want to look at more closely is in the unsecured product area.�

lmao

I like how their risk model is based on 3 pillars which tell them Vancouver is better than average:
(1) Higher than average credit scores
(2) lower at origination loan to values
(3) serious arrear rates are much lower than our overall portfolio

All of those things are affected by a giant housing bubble in which credit is easy to come by. Systemic risk is alive and well and we still aren't paying attention. This is wonderful.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 19:45

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

When is the assisted suicide program ready to roll out?

# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:14

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

Fried Watermelon posted:

When is the assisted suicide program ready to roll out?

it's pretty much out, anyone can request it, it's just that we haven't passed a law that says exactly how to do it, but the court decision stopping it from happening has expired, so its kind of legal limbo.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 20:20

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Banks actually have legions of actuaries. They must be doing something. I don't think some dumbass MBA is just winging it.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 22:06

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

cowofwar posted:

Banks actually have legions of actuaries. They must be doing something. I don't think some dumbass MBA is just winging it.

Counterpoint: 2008

# ? Aug 25, 2016 22:11

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

cowofwar posted:

Banks actually have legions of actuaries. They must be doing something. I don't think some dumbass MBA is just winging it.

OK, so you're the actuary that first notices that something is amiss with real estate exposure. You...speak up?

OK, so you're the actuary that second notices that something is amiss with real estate exposure...

# ? Aug 25, 2016 22:11

Lexicon: Jul 29, 2003; I had a beer with Stephen Harper once and now I like him.

cowofwar posted:

Banks actually have legions of actuaries. They must be doing something. I don't think some dumbass MBA is just winging it.

New thread title?

# ? Aug 25, 2016 22:15

RealityWarCriminal: Aug 10, 2016

I love how all these 'I'm financially successful and here's how' stories basically start with 'my parents supported me and i landed a well paying job in my early twenties'. You show 'em, you bootstrapping titan of industry.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 22:28

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

dicks assassin posted:

I love how all these 'I'm financially successful and here's how' stories basically start with 'my parents supported me and i landed a well paying job in my early twenties'. You show 'em, you bootstrapping titan of industry.

Even without the parents, it works. Have you considered it?

# ? Aug 25, 2016 22:30

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

everyone can make a deece six figgies coding, hell there's a few goons in this thread that bring up their income every couple pages. figure it out, poors

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:02

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Stopped reading at "but really it's about soul"

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:26

MeinPanzer: Dec 20, 2004; anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

namaste faggots posted:

Part of why I'm not so eager to buy a house at current prices is that I'd be thrilled to pay for my kid to attend a US university. No really, I'd be kinda disappointed if the little one decided to attend some shitass university like UBC.

I know this was a couple of pages back but if you think paying full price for your kid's undergrad education at a top-tier American university is worthwhile, you're as much of a chump as anyone buying Vancouver real estate right now.

The handful of top Canadian schools are way better value for your money than sending your kid to an Ivy League or top state school, even while paying out-of-province fees. The only really reasonably exception is if your kid wants to end up in a really specific US market right out of undergrad, like Wall Street or Silicon Valley, and is willing to dive into all the poo poo involved (like joining a fraternity or sorority that also costs large amounts of money to belong to). I mean sure, go the tiger dad route and make your kid good enough at something by the time they graduate high school that they can get a major scholarship, but paying full price for a top-tier US undergrad education is ridiculous.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:30

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

CIs kid is going to pull the ultimate gently caress you dad and become a police officer that saves vacation time for the yearly training weeks in the Reserves.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:32

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

large hands posted:

everyone can make a deece six figgies coding

have you tried typing faster?

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:36

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

MeinPanzer posted:

I know this was a couple of pages back but if you think paying full price for your kid's undergrad education at a top-tier American university is worthwhile, you're as much of a chump as anyone buying Vancouver real estate right now.

The handful of top Canadian schools are way better value for your money than sending your kid to an Ivy League or top state school, even while paying out-of-province fees. The only really reasonably exception is if your kid wants to end up in a really specific US market right out of undergrad, like Wall Street or Silicon Valley, and is willing to dive into all the poo poo involved (like joining a fraternity or sorority that also costs large amounts of money to belong to). I mean sure, go the tiger dad route and make your kid good enough at something by the time they graduate high school that they can get a major scholarship, but paying full price for a top-tier US undergrad education is ridiculous.

So instead my kid can go to UBC and get a job working at business objects

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:36

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

EvilJoven posted:

CIs kid is going to pull the ultimate gently caress you dad and become a police officer that saves vacation time for the yearly training weeks in the Reserves.

And he'll smoke weed, because it will be legal

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:37

peter banana: Sep 2, 2008; Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

LOL if you're not unschooling your kid and pushing him/her towards full stack development at age 11 so he/she is a tech wunderkind by the time his/her peers are applying, like them Irish kids who started Auctomatic and sold it.

# ? Aug 25, 2016 23:48

MeinPanzer: Dec 20, 2004; anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

namaste faggots posted:

So instead my kid can go to UBC and get a job working at business objects

Or send your kid to UBC and then get them to apply to jobs in the US. Americans (rightly or wrongly) actually think pretty highly of UBC, McGill, and U of T, so they get some name recognition, and as long as they're smart enough to capitalize on their undergrad experience they should have no problem getting their foot in the door in the US.

We as Canadians tend to put down our top universities, but the quality of education for undergrads in most fields is pretty similar between a U of T or UBC and a top American institution (most of those big name Ivy League professors don't really give a poo poo about teaching undergrads, or, if they do, it's not going to make much of a difference in 90% of undergrad courses). The difference is that even for the priciest degrees like dentistry you won't be paying more than 35k CAD a year at any good university in Canada, whereas in the US that's the minimum you'll be paying in USD to get any old BA from an Ivy League. And, from my experience having met tons of grads from both Canadian and American programs in lots of different fields, Canadians who attend top Canadian universities tend to graduate just as well prepared for the job market or grad school as their American counterparts. Not to mention that the fact that funded terminal MAs are normal in Canada but a rarity in the US means that Canadian MA students often have a leg up getting into prestigious US grad programs.

MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 26, 2016

# ? Aug 26, 2016 00:00

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Who knows UBC in the US tech sector? Who bothers to look beneath Waterloo/UoT/maybe-McGill?

# ? Aug 26, 2016 00:39

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

namaste faggots posted:

http://torontolife.com/city/life/im-24-i-make-140000-a-year-and-i-own-two-homes-i-dont-regret-a-thing/

why don't u all just pull urselves up by your bootstraps like i did

That's way to high for an elevator tradesman unless his Dad owns the company.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 00:42

MeinPanzer: Dec 20, 2004; anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

Subjunctive posted:

Who knows UBC in the US tech sector? Who bothers to look beneath Waterloo/UoT/maybe-McGill?

Yeah, you can swap out one school for another in the case of specific fields like tech but my point still stands.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 00:47

Bob Ross Nuke Test: Jul 12, 2016; by Games Forum

Subjunctive posted:

Who knows UBC in the US tech sector? Who bothers to look beneath Waterloo/UoT/maybe-McGill?

UVIC is far higher regarded in the tech sector down south than UBC, in my experience. It's got much heavier connections in the Valley.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:09

Fuzzy Mammal: Aug 15, 2001; Lipstick Apathy

Subjunctive posted:

Who knows UBC in the US tech sector? Who bothers to look beneath Waterloo/UoT/maybe-McGill?

Nobody. I turned down a completely free ride at ubc for Waterloo and don't regret it a single bit.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:10

large hands: Jan 24, 2006

sbaldrick posted:

That's way to high for an elevator tradesman unless his Dad owns the company.

here they make around 50 an hour then double for on call. and good luck getting into that union without a family member already in.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:10

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

THE BEATWEAVER posted:

UVIC is far higher regarded in the tech sector down south than UBC, in my experience. It's got much heavier connections in the Valley.

In my experience (interviewing dozens of candidates, and evaluating literally hundreds), neither are meaningful pedigrees in Silicon Valley.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:18

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

If you are demonstrably experienced and competent making software then do most people really give a gently caress what Canadian university your degree came from? Unless you're trying to work for Raytheon or GE or somewhere serious like that

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:38

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

sbaldrick posted:

That's way to high for an elevator tradesman unless his Dad owns the company.

Then, when I�m 30 or so and ready to have kids, I can move out of Toronto and have a huge home for my family.

I'm glad that he built his wealth on non-diversified local real estate holdings.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:39

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 34 hours!

Subjunctive posted:

In my experience (interviewing dozens of candidates, and evaluating literally hundreds), neither are meaningful pedigrees in Silicon Valley.

Get a load of this guy

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:39

Bob Ross Nuke Test: Jul 12, 2016; by Games Forum

THC posted:

If you are demonstrably experienced and competent making software then do most people really give a gently caress what Canadian university your degree came from? Unless you're trying to work for Raytheon or GE or somewhere serious like that

If you're some self-made hotshot like Subjunctive, I guess.

In reality, no.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 01:59

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

if you're just bolting together lovely phone apps which is like 95% of SV jobs right now I'm pretty sure most people don't care if you went to Waterloo or what grade you got in linear algebra

# ? Aug 26, 2016 03:16

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

namaste faggots posted:

http://torontolife.com/city/life/im-24-i-make-140000-a-year-and-i-own-two-homes-i-dont-regret-a-thing/

why don't u all just pull urselves up by your bootstraps like i did

I make 150k working 60-70 hour weeks

Oh, ok let's all work 60-70 hours a week before commuting time is added. Of course there is time for a relationship.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 03:18

blah_blah: Apr 15, 2006

THE BEATWEAVER posted:

UVIC is far higher regarded in the tech sector down south than UBC, in my experience. It's got much heavier connections in the Valley.

This is definitely not true. I've run into a bunch of UBC grads down here and probably more SFU grads than UVIC grads as well. Waterloo has by far the most graduates in Silicon Valley of any Canadian school, but my guess is that UBC is either 2nd or 3rd (probably close to Toronto, ahead of McGill).

blah_blah fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 26, 2016

# ? Aug 26, 2016 03:34

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008; Can't post for 34 hours!

This thread gives me an irrational urge to murder people.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 03:35

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

MeinPanzer posted:

if you think paying full price for your kid's undergrad education at a top-tier American university is worthwhile, you're as much of a chump as anyone buying Vancouver real estate right now

If you're paying full price for your kid's undergrad education at a top-tier American university, you're already rich as gently caress.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 03:58

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# ? May 9, 2024 06:56

Fuzzy Mammal: Aug 15, 2001; Lipstick Apathy

as an 'international' student you're probably paying even more in fact.

# ? Aug 26, 2016 04:13

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