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Wizard Styles posted:Man THAC0 is such a dumb thing. It's just roll, add modifiers, compare to target number, except literally backwards, except then also kinda not. Ok now, you need a low ThaC0 to hit low AC but you need to roll high...No no, you see minus thaco is actually good and +1 thac0 means your thac0 drops one...Why you say it is dumb? Thac0 0 is also not a baseline, but it is a plate+shield so 10 is like unarmored opponent...Ok just hang on, it will make sense later, now lets talk about saving throws...  3rd Edition made so much sense that I was like "mother of gently caress, how did you not think about it in the first place???"
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Nov 7, 2016 21:13
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Because I enjoy the story, characters and world building that RPG's have? Why sperg over numbers and rules like it's some tabletop game if that part of the game is not the focus for me. Not saying I approach all RPG's this way and I still have fun with this type of game play. It's not like I just say gently caress it and build a fighter and use only the default attack. I had fun with my cipher and the NPC wizard spamming damage and CC spells in PoE. I just didn't care about the details of the priests spells were as long the bot kept the group alive. I just don't have the rose tinted nostalgic glasses for this style of gameplay anymore. Still I pre-ordered the game since I have like most of Obsidian's games. I am giving Obsidian a pass because of that and the concept of the game is interesting. Kilravock fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 21:27
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Basic Chunnel posted:Careful now, don't let any spergs catch you calling a RTwP game "tactical" Well, it's babytown tactical for sure, but that is my preferred level anyway. Kilravock posted:I just don't have the rose tinted nostalgic glasses for this style of gameplay anymore. I first played the IE games seriously (lol at that, but you know what I mean) like 4-5 years ago but their "style" is really the best thing ever and it boggles my fragile little mind people can sit through the often tedious pacing of them without a real love of the mechanical game-play. EDIT: It's like a "I watch porn for the plot" level of confusion in my mind. Like sure, have fun, but still weird to me. bongwizzard fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Nov 7, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 22:49
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bongwizzard posted:Well, it's babytown tactical for sure, but that is my preferred level anyway. I have no love of IE games for their mechanics, but I do enjoy PoE for its mechanics. When I play through BG2 I just bulldoze everything with whatever build I think sounds cool and won't involve too much work because lol idgaf. I'm more in it for the characters, the story, and the unparalleled sense of high fantasy adventure than any genuine belief that the fights are tactically interesting.
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Nov 7, 2016 22:52
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Basic Chunnel posted:Careful now, don't let any spergs catch you calling a RTwP game "tactical" Then what is it? I don't expect xcom from an infinity engine rpg.
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Nov 7, 2016 23:04
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the exact oppose of tactical. Ugh, don't make me say it, action
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Nov 7, 2016 23:08
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Basic Chunnel posted:the exact oppose of tactical. Ugh, don't make me say it, action I have the vapors irl.
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Nov 7, 2016 23:08
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Basic Chunnel posted:the exact oppose of tactical. Ugh, don't make me say it, action Made you say the words 
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Nov 7, 2016 23:08
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Also REAL dudes would never call XCOM "tactical". You can't even target body parts
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Nov 7, 2016 23:36
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Basic Chunnel posted:Also REAL dudes would never call XCOM "tactical". You can't even target body parts 
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Nov 7, 2016 23:52
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bongwizzard posted:I first played the IE games seriously (lol at that, but you know what I mean) like 4-5 years ago but their "style" is really the best thing ever and it boggles my fragile little mind people can sit through the often tedious pacing of them without a real love of the mechanical game-play. Well when the IE games came out, they basically revived the dying CRPG genre. It was close to the table top RPG experience as a single player game. They were far better than the CRPG's that came out before it like the Wizardry and Ultimia series. You had Fallout which I loved more, but the IE games had a fun group based combat system and was not turn based. So basically they were all you had, but were fun to play and you would love it once you understood the game play. It took me a while to like BG, but by the time BG II came out I was use to it. Ice Wind Dale also had some fun dungeon crawls. Planescape was the one I didn't like mainly because the setting didn't appeal to me. Well it's better than Diablo's gameplay. Kilravock fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 7, 2016 23:57
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Furism posted:Yeah that's all fine and good on medium difficulty but you can't very well do that on Hard or Path of the Damned (but if that's how you have fun, good for you). Which is how it was designed, as I understand, so it's all good. That's exactly how I beat the game on hard though? I've never done PotD but even on hard I rarely consulted the combat log (generally brief glances to determine the resistances of tough enemies), and only (rarely) paused to queue up spells. Toss eder + other melee in, chain ranged attacks/spells into the mosh pit, rinse & repeat. Honestly I loved PoE from a mechanics standpoint, but I'm definitely thankful for a smaller party and (hopefully) a little less combat overall.
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Nov 8, 2016 00:04
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LOL at calling a game with buttons tactical. Come back when you've had to program all actions using a version of C crossed with military lingo. That idea is for free, Zachtronics.
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Nov 8, 2016 01:13
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where's my myth-like tactics game i demand answers
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Nov 8, 2016 02:32
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Does anyone have that issue where the party members you get first become like your endgame team, solely because you've had them the longest? This is also a bigger issue in Tyranny since skills are leveled up via actual usage, and so getting a character late would mean their skills would either be super low or already placed in a manner you might not like. Or maybe they'll be nice and have the character come with unused skill points that you can allot to your liking.
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Nov 8, 2016 02:40
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I thought they changed that in a patch so their skill points were not assigned yet, but still had the same level as you when you hired them. I know that it is common practice in most RPG's now. When PoE launched you wanted to pick up companions ASAP so you could build them your way. Don't know about Tyranny until it's out.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:52
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2 SPOOKY posted:That's exactly how I beat the game on hard though? I've never done PotD but even on hard I rarely consulted the combat log (generally brief glances to determine the resistances of tough enemies), and only (rarely) paused to queue up spells. Toss eder + other melee in, chain ranged attacks/spells into the mosh pit, rinse & repeat.
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Nov 8, 2016 03:55
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Kilravock posted:I thought they changed that in a patch so their skill points were not assigned yet, but still had the same level as you when you hired them. I know that it is common practice in most RPG's now. When PoE launched you wanted to pick up companions ASAP so you could build them your way. Yeah the companions start at level 1 when you recruit them; you can't change their initial skills even if you pay to respec them, so Grieving Mother and Kana each have two spells they have to take, but they're level 1 spells so what the heck, who cares. e: Talking about PoE here, just to note. Count Uvula fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 04:21
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Yeah, hopefully when companions level up offscreen they just get a bunch of generic points that can be assigned to anything, they've been talking a lot about building the party members vastly different ways so I don't think any other method makes sense. The Wiki already has the player talent trees up, I'm planning out my characters already and it looks like I'm going to roll up... at least six? And then play through the game with all of them, concurrently, if PoE is any indicator. All the choices you can make during character creation (in both mechanics and story) are not good for my weird roleplaying-related OCD, is what I'm saying.
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Nov 8, 2016 04:38
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AriadneThread posted:where's my myth-like tactics game There was a Myth-like I played once called Saint Eyes. It was Korean. I played to a point where I couldn't win anymore because the guys I'd leveled up got blown to bits and I couldn't afford to buy enough replacements to keep going. I've always wanted to try it again with a little more effort and planning instead of flying by the seat of my pants. And maybe a translation.
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Nov 8, 2016 04:40
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Count Uvula posted:Yeah the companions start at level 1 when you recruit them; you can't change their initial skills even if you pay to respec them, so Grieving Mother and Kana each have two spells they have to take, but they're level 1 spells so what the heck, who cares. Yeah I remember you are stuck with the level 1 skills but if you hired them at level 5 you could now assign everything for 2-5, while at launch they would be at level 5 with what ever skills the devs/rng wanted them to have. Unless that was changed again or you have a bug. Anyway PoE is still like the IE games, if you hire a companion then don't use them all the time they will not level up with you. So they get weaker and weaker as you level up. So your 1st party members who you kept in the party tend to be the best and the only ones you use and the rest you forget about because you never use them. It's why in later Bioware games, they drop that and made it so companions level with you to encourage players to swap out the group and try different champion combos within the same play through. I hope Tyranny allows companions to level with the player. I doubt it since this game seems to approach game length and replay ability like they did with Alpha Protocol, short but with different outcomes based on your actions. My guess is you will choose companions based on your faction leanings and not use the ones that oppose you. Just a wild guess and I could be way off. Kilravock fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 05:02
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:The Wiki already has the player talent trees up, I'm planning out my characters already and it looks like I'm going to roll up... at least six? And then play through the game with all of them, concurrently, if PoE is any indicator. All the choices you can make during character creation (in both mechanics and story) are not good for my weird roleplaying-related OCD, is what I'm saying. The player talent trees are so boring (they start with leadership and end with magic, not sure why they're sandwiched between companion trees in the wiki). Not really surprising that the companion's trees are way more interesting since there's an actual identity being pushed in to their talent trees. Does anyone know what throwing weapons are in the game? If I can conk dudes with a throwing hammer or something then the fate of my first PC is sealed. Recounting of Deeds posted:Lantry orates the party's deeds, inspiring his allies and instilling terror in the hearts of enemies. "I have slain one crow on the plains of Vendrien Well." "It is terrifying."
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Nov 8, 2016 05:17
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Javelins for sure. Not sure about axes, hammers or knifes.
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Nov 8, 2016 05:23
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I think I read or heard in one of the streams that you can respec any character at almost any time so no worries about NPC builds, I think. I wonder if any of the NPC companions can die? Like, what if I decide to just try to kill Eb instead of recruit her?
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Nov 8, 2016 06:26
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That's a good question. We could in the IE games both by story and gameplay. I don't remember trying in PoE since I never had a reason to. If anything I would think this game would throw that at you if this reputation system is anything more than just to unlock abilities. You would think you could and would happen considering the game's concept and it would be beyond just being chaotic stupid or a thug. I wonder how much interaction there is with the companions and their reactions to your actions. I doubt this will be, lets all be friends, solve your daddy issues and date each other like you get with Bioware. Obsidian has been good about avoiding that, and when they do it they deconstruct it or make it creepy/betray you like in KOTOR II or Alpha Protocol. I at least expect a companion to try to use you for an opportunity for advancement or something. Kilravock fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 07:14
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Kilravock posted:
They can get bonus experience from going on stronghold adventures, in any case there's really not much of a difference. If you have the expansion one of the last companions you get is probably Zahua, while Kana's one of the first, and I'd have Zahua over Kana in my party any day. Maybe if you take on a new party member and literally never use them for the whole game they'll be much weaker than the rest of the party.
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Nov 8, 2016 08:19
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In my experience in PoE, companions that you never use will be at most 2 levels lower than you even without Stronghold quests.
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Nov 8, 2016 08:49
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NihilCredo posted:One of my favourite features from the IE games was the ability to install third-party custom AI scripts. That's what I miss the most in PoE. I have hundreds of hours in the game so I kinda did all I could possibly do (well almost ; still not finished my TCS run) and playing with the AI would have been a nice way to extend that playtime. I really really hope they get that into PoE2.
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Nov 8, 2016 09:24
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Octo1 posted:In my experience in PoE, companions that you never use will be at most 2 levels lower than you even without Stronghold quests. But if you send them on big adventure quests, they can actually outlevel you. E: Sorry for doubleposting.
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Nov 8, 2016 09:28
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Kilravock posted:Well when the IE games came out, they basically revived the dying CRPG genre. It was close to the table top RPG experience as a single player game. They were far better than the CRPG's that came out before it like the Wizardry and Ultimia series. You had Fallout which I loved more, but the IE games had a fun group based combat system and was not turn based. I don't agree with you about Torment and I never had fallout when I was younger (it wasn't Fantasy) but this is essentially exactly why I liked the IE games and I think why PoE fell a little flat. When Baldurs Gate came out there wasn't anything at all even slightly similar. I read every article I could find in every game magazine about it and I played it endlessly for months and so did most of my friends. Especially with BG2, the chance to go on a high fantasy romp was amazing. I really didn't care about the combat and I did everything I could to cheese past it. Invisiblity and wands of heaven worked super well and I was sad when that was "fixed". It feels like PoE was made for/by the people who played the game to do crazy things with their characters and there's never been a time when that was me. I just equipped whatever sounded best and carried on to see what happened next.
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Nov 8, 2016 10:06
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I think it's hard to argue that the Infinity Engine games were "better" than Ultima when they significantly cut down on the ambitions and were comparatively safer in the ways they evolved. Ultima simply doesn't get as much credit as it deserves as a series.
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Nov 8, 2016 10:56
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I think that's more the result of Ultima being out of the public consciousness for a very long time now. Also, it's been a while, but I don't remember the Ultima combat system being any great shakes. Even BG's AD&D was a massive improvement.
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Nov 8, 2016 11:16
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Lt. Danger posted:Ultima combat system being any great shakes. Even BG's AD&D was a massive improvement. I think this is a big reason that the BG series has held up in the public consciousness where a lot of other RPGs have been lost to time. I'm not sure if it was the first game to use "tactical pausing" but it was definitely the first big success and it made the actual gameplay appealing to a lot of folks who normally wouldn't touch what they thought of as an "RPG." Sort of in the same way that ME further broadened the appeal by making the combat 3rd person action.
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Nov 8, 2016 11:24
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(Off-topic: by the way, since it was recommended in this thread, the Shadowrun series has a ridiculous discount on GOG.com. Got Dragonfall for less than  )I think that the main thing about infinity engine games and their combat mechanics is that you could power through without much regard to the rules. I think that if you really wanted you could make a completely ridiculous gamebreaker in BG2 without much issue, and I loved it, even disliking the basic D&D ruleset (which never felt quite right in video games imho). More RPGs should let you go off the hook and go crazy in that sense. Granted, it is even better if you can translate that into non-combat gameplay, like in Torment. Cheesing WIS in that game was definitely worth it.
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Nov 8, 2016 11:30
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I always found it weird how much more I preffered the newer shadowrun's style of doing things like fighting than the POE method. Am I alone in this or is it a slightly common opinion?
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Nov 8, 2016 12:32
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Josef bugman posted:I always found it weird how much more I preffered the newer shadowrun's style of doing things like fighting than the POE method. Am I alone in this or is it a slightly common opinion? Nah, I prefer turn-based too. I feel Divinity: Original Sin had the best combat of all recent party RPGs.
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Nov 8, 2016 12:40
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Lt. Danger posted:I think that's more the result of Ultima being out of the public consciousness for a very long time now. Don't get me wrong I did enjoy the ultima games but they're much older and hadn't been making new ones since U9 was such a complete and total travesty. BG has the advantage that the graphics are sort of timeless and it's not quite as glaringly "old looking". I far prefer real time with pause to turn based though. I get impatient, turn based takes forever especially in bigger battles. I just want my combat over so I can carry on with the game. But I don't want it removed. I dunno, it's like a raid in a MMOG - while you're not there for the lovely monsters if they were taken out it'd feel "off". I have no problem with combat in more action games though. I think that's because again, it's pretty fast. Edit: Actually I've thought of a good analogy for it. Both the Total War games and the Paradox grand strategy games involve maps with units moving around to take stuff. I hate the total war games though because combat is the focus and it takes too long, I'm more interested in what's going on next. The paradox games fit me perfectly because combat is much more abstract and is a means to an end, which the game recognises. PoE felt like a Total War game and Baldurs Gate felt like a Paradox game. Taear fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 12:45
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ZearothK posted:Nah, I prefer turn-based too. I feel Divinity: Original Sin had the best combat of all recent party RPGs. I just wish it didn't have the worst, most cringey comic writing that I've seen in years. 
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Nov 8, 2016 12:51
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Josef bugman posted:I always found it weird how much more I preffered the newer shadowrun's style of doing things like fighting than the POE method. Am I alone in this or is it a slightly common opinion? On the other hand, I couldn't even figure out how to do things like cast spells in Shadowrun Returns (I can't even remember the interface but I seem to remember the game decided 'click on spell in UI then click on enemy/floor' wasn't good enough and it wouldn't tell me how else I was supposed to do it) and gave up on the game in the first mission.  At any rate, I'll always prefer RTWP over turn-based in isometric-style RPGs at least. I'm generally not a fan of turn-based combat at all really - I grew up on RTS in the 90s and only really got on board with RPGs with IE games/Diablo 2, and then into WoW and other straight-forward real-time RPGs since then. I do enjoy some turn-based games like HoMM or cardgames, but turn-based combat in RPGs has never felt like it has more depth in choices and decisionmaking than real-time/RTWP systems, it just has the added hassle of making generic enemy encounters slower and more tedious. Divinity:OS is an interesting example where I actually really quite liked the gameplay when I started it...but by hour 20 I was so loving sick and tired of it. Never ended up finishing the game, maybe I'll give it another shot now that it's gotten a lot of updates.
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Nov 8, 2016 12:56
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ZearothK posted:Nah, I prefer turn-based too. I feel Divinity: Original Sin had the best combat of all recent party RPGs. Shadowrun Returns and Hong Kong weren't perfect but I liked them. AP ruled everything so abilities that controlled it were no-brainers, so I always ran characters that would let me cast haste, and always had a supply of +AP drugs just in case. And I wish cover was more intuitive. It was hard to tell what could be considered a flanking shot a lot of the time. Still fun games, and while it took most of a game to get going, I loving loved hosing down fields of foes with a Vindicator minigun.
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Nov 8, 2016 13:09
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