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Max posted:Dongs made that post after MMT had already posted their read of dongs, this is not the same situation. I don't really like this characterization that you and TM have given Somber's case because it seems pretty clear to me that they aren't the same. This isn't really true. dongs comes in and votes Keane with his second post of the game. ~24 hours later MMT votes dongs here quoting his two posts which consist of "I'm going to lurk" and his Keane vote: Murmur Twin posted:##unvote Somber then questions MMT for voting a lurker and MMT responds with: Murmur Twin posted:I stand by it. If it helps there's a meta element of "I've only ever seen town chores and he usually So the primary reason MMT is voting for dongs is that he isn't going to contribute to the game and the meta element is secondary. I have absolutely no problem with that because someone lurking as hard as dongs right now should absolutely be voted out early. Keeping him in the game makes the whole game much more difficult than if we had just voted him out on D1 even though we wouldn't really get any real information from the lynch. I'm not a huge fan of a shitposting dongs, but this lurking one is much worse. None of it helps town at all and the longer a lurker stays in the game, the harder it is to lynch him because you never know if you're lynching a scum or if he's being pushed by scum for being a lurker. Given the current state of the game, I'd much rather engage in the Ecco Gambit because 6 of the 15 people signed up for this game haven't even posted as much as the mod.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:36
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s" but I'm not going to feel bad about voting someone whose only post since the game has started is a contentless vote.
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And yes, that means I would also absolutely vote out MMT. However, I just don't like the way Somber has made his case against her and I think he is actually scum. However, games like this where people just aren't posting are garbage because it just ends up being a few people arguing against each other.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:37
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Also, Max, what do you think of Somber saying that Ernie was the only viable target when MMT made her vote? I've pointed out that at the time MMT made her dongs vote, Ernie only had 2 votes on him.
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Nov 17, 2016 15:39
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TMMadman posted:Also, Max, what do you think of Somber saying that Ernie was the only viable target when MMT made her vote? Let me go back and look at the time stamps.
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Nov 17, 2016 16:11
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Max posted:Let me go back and look at the time stamps. It's on page 6 (assuming max posts per page). MMTs vote comes just a few posts after PMom votes for Ernie. Pmom is the second vote on Ernie.
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Nov 17, 2016 16:16
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I mean, there was something lazily inevitable about the Ernie lunch given how cagey people have been and how close we were to deadline at that point. But there was nothing saying MMT couldn't come back and switch their vote, so yeah, I don't buy that argument.TMMadman posted:This isn't really true. We may be talking past each other. I don't have a real bead on dongs but I think based on what was going on at the time, I think that was a fairly weak justification to lay one down on him. I'm more arguing that saying "Well MMT is also lurking so it's like Somber is making the same argument that MMT made about dongs" is wrong. That said, I think MMT should come back and actually respond at this point. The last thing she posted was asking me a question, and that was a while ago. I do agree there are too many people simply not posting and that is super duper lame.
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Nov 17, 2016 16:26
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Tired Moritz posted:I kinda understand the MMT's votes but eh, I don't really buy it. And actually Sombre's vote on them is kinda weird, since MMT's lurking a bit as well and they said that lynching lurkers wouldn't provide much information. Kinda confusing to be against voting lurkers because it provides less info and then vote to kill a lurker. I probably should have addressed my statement more to TM, because they were the one coming out with this argument.
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Nov 17, 2016 16:27
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TMMadman posted:Also, Max, what do you think of Somber saying that Ernie was the only viable target when MMT made her vote? i said that about dick bastard, not mmt.
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Nov 17, 2016 16:50
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sure ##unvote ##vote murmur twin
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Nov 17, 2016 16:59
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Somberbrero posted:i said that about dick bastard, not mmt. Well then I misunderstood you since we were talking about dongsbot at the time. And I wouldn't really label what Dick did as a case so much as just a vote with an short reason attached. The difference in my mind is that Dick wasn't trying to start a train on someone which is what I consider a case. When they are jumping on the middle of a train it's just a vote with reasons.
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Nov 17, 2016 17:22
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Pinterest Mom posted:sure ##unvote Oh look, another lazy Pmom vote.
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Nov 17, 2016 17:23
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Max posted:Like, MMT saying lets get rid of a lurker and Somber saying lets get rid of MMT for pushing a lurker case are two different things here. That MMT is also lurking is incidental to that case. How is it incidental??
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Nov 17, 2016 17:23
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TMMadman posted:Oh look, another lazy Pmom vote. vote me bi*ch
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Nov 17, 2016 17:38
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:How is it incidental?? Because Somber is making an argument that MMT was pushing a lazy lurker case, not that MMT was lurking. How does MMT suddenly lurking impact Somber's initial point?
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Nov 17, 2016 17:42
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Pinterest Mom posted:vote me bi*ch I already did once stupid. I would have no problem going back to it.
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Nov 17, 2016 17:45
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:How is it incidental?? because my first point was made independent of murmur's later activity.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:04
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Somberbrero posted:to clarify, the db case seems bad to me because ernie was our only viable target at that point. i don't see the confusion there but alright.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:05
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birch tree Current Day 1 Votecount Murmur Twin (3): Somber, Keane, -Somber, Somber, PMom Pinterest Mom (2): Moat, TMM Tired Moritz (2): Ernie, -Ernie, TremTa, stickup Ernie (1): Max, PMom, Dick, Moritz, Somber, -Max, -Moritz, -Somber, -PMom Asiina (1): Ernie CCKeane (1): MMT, chores, TremTa, -MMT, -TremTa chores (1): MMT TMMadman (1): Max, -Max, Anon Dick Bastardly (1): Max Moatillata (0): stickup, PMom, Moat, -Moat, -PMom, -stickup Max (0): TMM, -TMM  With 15 alive it takes 8 votes to execute. Day 1 deadline: Thursday, November 17th, ~11PM EST. That's in about 11 hours from this post.Note: TMM wins the coveted "first to forget to unvote in an ecco game" award. His prize is his vote staying on PMom   
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Nov 17, 2016 18:08
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Somberbrero posted:i don't see the confusion there but alright. Because we were in the middle of an argument regarding dongsbot, so when you said db I just assumed that is who you were referencing.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:08
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ooh, sure. okay.
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Nov 17, 2016 18:10
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EccoRaven posted:
Wow I've been had
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Nov 17, 2016 18:11
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EccoRaven posted:Note: TMM wins the coveted "first to forget to unvote in an ecco game" award. His prize is his vote staying on PMom  ##unvote ##vote Somber
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Nov 17, 2016 18:18
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who is dongsbot
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Nov 17, 2016 18:42
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TMMadman posted:No, Ernie wasn't the only viable target when MMT made the dongbot case. That is a flat out lie. Hi folks, I'm back and I'd like to apologize for the lurking. I've had a pretty rough real-life couple of days and needed to take care of some stuff (it's in the blog) before I felt comfortable playing an online game. got some chores tonight posted:The other name I was very confident on (other than CCKeane) was, in fact, MurmurTwin so I'd be fine switching to that. Why Keane? Why me? Somberbrero posted:i can point out where mmt's case is fundamentally unsound, and i have. i can't do the same for dongs. Apologies again for the lurking  I promise I'd feel bad about that regardless of alignment.But how is it that my voting dongs for (at the time) "until he contributes more, he's either scum or, best case scenario, dead weight" is fundamentally unsound, but chores throwing out votes with no explanation is fine and dandy?
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Nov 17, 2016 19:29
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Reasons. Ask me after the game if you want to know.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:35
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chores vote sucks, to be clear, but lurking has no correlation to alignment. we want to kill scum and killing lurkers isn't the same thing.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:35
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Somberbrero posted:chores vote sucks, to be clear, but lurking has no correlation to alignment. we want to kill scum and killing lurkers isn't the same thing. But letting lurker live and hoping that scum kill them for you is also a surefire way to lose the game.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:37
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Somberbrero posted:your original point has no connection to alignment and the meta argument seems like fake justification after the fact. Somberbrero posted:it's mmt Somberbrero posted:mmt made a case against chores that was two points Somberbrero posted:why did we spend so long talking about lurkers if that's not an element of her case? why can you not see why it's so much stranger for mmt to be calling out behaviors she sees as scummy when she is participating in them? ##unvote ##vote Somber Somber's scum. It's not so much that I'm suspicious of the conflicting ideas of "lurking isn't indicative of alignment" and "Murmur called out someone for lurking and then lurked herself". I think he's scum acting way too sure of himself for d1 - the case on me is based on blowing up my first case of the game. There's no way he organically came to the conlusion that I'm scum and chores is town based on our posting.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:41
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Moatillata posted:I am having a problem because I don't want to drop my character but I am having writers block every time I sit down and try to tap something out so I end up not posting. While I'm extremely sympathetic to the plight of writers block, at some point it would be nice to hear some opinions 
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Nov 17, 2016 19:45
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got some chores tonight posted:Reasons. Ask me after the game if you want to know. What's the pro-town reason for not sharing your cases?
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Nov 17, 2016 19:52
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What's the pro-town reason to engage in conversation w/ a scum?
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Nov 17, 2016 19:54
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got some chores tonight posted:What's the pro-town reason to engage in conversation w/ a scum? I don't know if you're town or scum. I'm engaging you in conversation to determine your alignment. Murmur Twin posted:What's the pro-town reason for not sharing your cases?
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Nov 17, 2016 19:55
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There is one (1) reason to talk to a scum, and that's to provide an organic conversation you can point to so other players will feel more confident that you are not a scum once the scum player flips. I feel like this brief exchange is probably enough to cover that.
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Nov 17, 2016 19:57
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TMMadman posted:But letting lurker live and hoping that scum kill them for you is also a surefire way to lose the game. aaaaHHHHHHHHH Murmur Twin posted:
HHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGHHHH
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Nov 17, 2016 20:02
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Somberbrero posted:aaaaHHHHHHHHH OK. So what is your suggestion to deal with lurkers? Do you think we should just let them live and hope scum kills them for us? What do you do with them in the late game?
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Nov 17, 2016 20:06
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I mean seriously, if he's not loving trying to help town then there is no loving reason to keep him around. Lurker absolutely suck and I'd rather lose a game by voting the biggest lurker every day than having a crap shoot at the end of the game with them around.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:08
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MMT posting. That is good for the game. I still think she is a bad.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:13
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I don't like going after lurkers D1 unless it's to provoke a response and participation from them.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:17
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Madman, do you draw a distinction between non-posting versus low-content/low-volume of posts in a given day? How do you define lurking exactly?
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Nov 17, 2016 20:22
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Somberbrero posted:chores vote sucks, to be clear, but lurking has no correlation to alignment. we want to kill scum and killing lurkers isn't the same thing. why are you leaning so much into an argument that's obviously untrue of course lurking is correlated with alignment.
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Nov 17, 2016 20:26
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