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Julio Cruz posted:That's a lot of ifs, though. They also outperformed their pythag by 10 games last season. Exactly, so they are "pseudo" contenders the next two years, and then when they inevitably offer Machado and Harper all of the money under the sun in 2019 they are just straight up contending then. My point is that Chapman is helpful in both of these situations. Chris Sale is a way, way, way bigger injury concern than Chapman, and literally everyone was flipping their lids when the Red Sox dumped huge prospects for him. Obviously Sale is cheaper than Chapman, and under a totally different contracts. But rich clubs can and should take high risk financial moves to win. Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 19:16
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Harlock posted:Here's a good take on Chapman imo. From the money, need, and off field perspective I'm less negative on the contract overall than Mike is, but yeah, he's dead-on with the off-field stuff. In general Mike is usually right about stuff.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:20
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Inspector_666 posted:I'm less negative on the contract overall than Mike is, but yeah, he's dead-on with the off-field stuff. I like Mike a lot. Also, finding out that the deal has an opt-out after year 3 tempers my dislike of it a fair bit.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:23
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N: ZiPS projection: Astros V:  That's a projection usually reserved for a player like Mike Trout.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:30
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JeterianGiftBasket posted:I like Mike a lot. Also, finding out that the deal has an opt-out after year 3 tempers my dislike of it a fair bit. Opt outs NEVER work in favor of the team. You're better off just ignoring them.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:32
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JeterianGiftBasket posted:I like Mike a lot. Also, finding out that the deal has an opt-out after year 3 tempers my dislike of it a fair bit. Opt outs are good for the player, not the team.
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Dec 8, 2016 19:38
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Chapman is the first reliever since BJ Ryan in 2005 to get a 5-year deal. BJ Ryan, as you might remember, got TJS, lost his slider, and was released midway through the 4th year of his deal.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:03
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Harlock posted:Here's a good take on Chapman imo. From the money, need, and off field perspective Mike is spot on as usual. I took a peak at the comments out of morbid curiosity and yeesh. I shouldn't be surprised because !SPORTS! but way too many people are like "I don't care about domestic violence and you shouldn't either." It's really gross.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:28
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Tender Bender posted:Mike is spot on as usual. I took a peak at the comments out of morbid curiosity and yeesh. I shouldn't be surprised because !SPORTS! but way too many people are like "I don't care about domestic violence and you shouldn't either." It's really gross. I comment on RAB way too fuckin' much for the quality of discussion, but yeah there are a lot of incredibly stereotypical "KEEP IT ABOUT ON THE FIELD" people.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:29
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Inspector_666 posted:I comment on RAB way too fuckin' much for the quality of discussion, but yeah there are a lot of incredibly stereotypical "KEEP IT ABOUT ON THE FIELD" people. Yeah there's a lot of "it's just a business!" talk as if anyone who isn't a team owner or employee should care about that. Baseball is emotional investment and entertainment, up to and including winning the world series.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:34
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I'm not sure this ever got answered when Chapman was traded, but what exactly would satisfy those of you who can't support Chapman due to the DV allegations and make him playing for the Yankees or the Cubs or whatever team not (to use what was said above) 'gross?' Is he permanently tainted because of the incident? Does he need to become an anti-DV spokesman or donate X% of his salary to one of the many support charities? Something else?
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Dec 8, 2016 20:49
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quote:In the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft, the Rockies took Los Angeles Angels AA catcher Anthony Bemboom. That is a loving superb baseballer name.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:52
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CubsWoo posted:I'm not sure this ever got answered when Chapman was traded, but what exactly would satisfy those of you who can't support Chapman due to the DV allegations and make him playing for the Yankees or the Cubs or whatever team not (to use what was said above) 'gross?' Is he permanently tainted because of the incident? Does he need to become an anti-DV spokesman or donate X% of his salary to one of the many support charities? Something else? He shot a gun 8 times in order to intimidate his girlfriend, and then choked her. Not sure what kind of "redemption" he deserves or could even get. He's not my friend or anything so I don't need to formulate an opinion more complex than "people who beat their partners are bad people" Paul Zuvella fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 20:58
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Spoeank posted:Kinda pissed that piece of poo poo garbage wife beater Aroldis Chapman got a ring and $86 million AND improved his current franchise via trade all in the last 6 months. America is a great place to live if you're mean and stupid as gently caress.
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Dec 8, 2016 20:59
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CubsWoo posted:I'm not sure this ever got answered when Chapman was traded, but what exactly would satisfy those of you who can't support Chapman due to the DV allegations and make him playing for the Yankees or the Cubs or whatever team not (to use what was said above) 'gross?' Is he permanently tainted because of the incident? Does he need to become an anti-DV spokesman or donate X% of his salary to one of the many support charities? Something else? For me, speaking out about DV issues would be a good start, but firstly he should admit what he did and talk about why it was wrong - it'd be hypocritical as hell for him to talk about preventing DV while still maintaining his total innocence. Donating to an anti-DV charity would be great in addition, but if it's his sole concession it's just an empty gesture from a guy who could give away a hundred grand and not even notice.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:02
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will_colorado posted:That is a loving superb baseballer name. Tony Bemboom is cooler than Joey Bats, and it's his real name!
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Dec 8, 2016 21:03
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Paul Zuvella posted:He shot a gun 8 times in order to intimidate his girlfriend, and then choked her. I mostly agree, but a guy in his position does have a lot of influence, and if he can use that influence to honestly and willingly promote anti-DV causes then I feel that's better than doing nothing.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:05
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CubsWoo posted:I'm not sure this ever got answered when Chapman was traded, but what exactly would satisfy those of you who can't support Chapman due to the DV allegations and make him playing for the Yankees or the Cubs or whatever team not (to use what was said above) 'gross?' Is he permanently tainted because of the incident? Does he need to become an anti-DV spokesman or donate X% of his salary to one of the many support charities? Something else? If he showed some suitable level of remorse I'd be more comfortable with having him on the team. I can't articulate what exactly that point is because it's not something you can quantify. I'm never going to be able to root for him on a personal level beyond basically a mechanism that enables my team to win games. I don't think it's gross that the team employs him because for them it IS a business. I would call it disappointing though. I think it's gross that so many people not only look past it, but pressure others to also look past it and chide them for being focused on "irrelevant issues". It's much more prevalent in places outside these forums. Tender Bender fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 21:05
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CubsWoo posted:I'm not sure this ever got answered when Chapman was traded, but what exactly would satisfy those of you who can't support Chapman due to the DV allegations and make him playing for the Yankees or the Cubs or whatever team not (to use what was said above) 'gross?' Is he permanently tainted because of the incident? Does he need to become an anti-DV spokesman or donate X% of his salary to one of the many support charities? Something else? Probably nothing. And like I get it, I'm not going to try and shame someone for hating a dude forever for something like that. And that discussion just isn't interesting path to follow or argue about people with. It's a fairly binary thing. Personally I don't care. as I know if it was my job to put together a winning team in any sport I would draft and sign all of the well playing problematic players in the world, I would have it set up so I could cut bait so they have to remain on their best behavior, or stick to short term deals. But it's not like I'm going to get a reprieve from as a Team president or GM if I only draft nice upstanding citizens. (Though if you do this don't botch the press conference tell people straight up this is about winning, don't try and push a change narrative, that poo poo will come naturally if he I just wish our legal system wasn't such loving garbage, and easy for the rich and famous to use to their advantage. If that was the case this wouldn't be such a problem. Edit: Besides people who still have a crazy amount of hate for Mike Vick. That dude served his time, admitted fault, and has probably done more and helped more animals than he ended hurting from dog fighting since getting out. Like sure don't like the dude and what he did. But nothing has ever gotten me more angry about a sports fandom than people who bash Vick and then turn around and support Big Ben. Dexo fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 21:07
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Tender Bender posted:If he showed some suitable level of remorse I'd be more comfortable with having him on the team. I can't articulate what exactly that point is because it's not something you can quantify. I'm never going to be able to root for him on a personal level beyond basically a mechanism that enables my team to win games. I understand this. I'm personally able to separate Chapman the player from Chapman the off-field person but I don't think anyone who can't do the same is wrong. We all have our personal feelings and experiences and I don't think anyone should be forced or pressured to look past the Chapman incident if what he did makes him an irredeemable shithead in their eyes. I don't know if anything will ever change since Chapman has been adamant from the start that the only thing he did wrong was fire the gun.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:11
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Tanya Bondurant is doing a cool thing in reaction to the Chapman signing.CubsWoo posted:I understand this. I'm personally able to separate Chapman the player from Chapman the off-field person but I don't think anyone who can't do the same is wrong. We all have our personal feelings and experiences and I don't think anyone should be forced or pressured to look past the Chapman incident if what he did makes him an irredeemable shithead in their eyes. I don't know if anything will ever change since Chapman has been adamant from the start that the only thing he did wrong was fire the gun. I'm in a similar boat to you, but I would also like him to admit that was he did is totally unacceptable even if it was "just" firing his gun into a wall several times.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:11
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I dislike Chapman and I think that he's been pretty wishy-washy in regards to his blame in the DV incident and expressing any genuine remorse over it, but at the end of the day I'm not going to throw shade at the Yankees for overlooking his off the field baggage in singing him. My team acquired and directly benefited from having Chapman on the team, and I think it's pretty non-controversial to say that without Chapman the Cubs do not win the World Series. Considering the joy I've seen the WS win bring friends, family (my dad in particular  ), and the city of Chicago, I'd rather have a WS win with him than no WS win without him.
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Dec 8, 2016 21:37
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In other pitcher news, I'm super excited to see the NCAA-schools-on-steroids wooing that teams will be doing to Ohtani next year. Also apparently the Athletics, Astros, Braves, Cardinals, Cubs, Dodgers, Giants, Nationals, Padres, Reds, and Royals will all still be under a $300k cap for IFAs so 
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Dec 8, 2016 21:49
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Inspector_666 posted:In other pitcher news, I'm super excited to see the NCAA-schools-on-steroids wooing that teams will be doing to Ohtani next year. The cubs have a jake arrieta sized issue to spend a fuckload of money on instead I hope he joins the yankees because I'd like to watch him in person but not have the cubs actually face him ever
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Dec 8, 2016 21:55
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In Dexter Fowler news, he apparently has a 4/60 deal on the table from the Cardinals, but is reluctant to sign because of "clubhouse culture" issues, with Matheny in particular apparently being an issue. What the hell did Heyward tell him 
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Dec 8, 2016 22:01
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Inspector_666 posted:In other pitcher news, I'm super excited to see the NCAA-schools-on-steroids wooing that teams will be doing to Ohtani next year. For loving Gurriel 
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Dec 8, 2016 22:04
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Sydin posted:In Dexter Fowler news, he apparently has a 4/60 deal on the table from the Cardinals, but is reluctant to sign because of "clubhouse culture" issues, with Matheny in particular apparently being an issue. I couldn't find a picture of it that didn't destroy the tables here but just pretend I posted :fredbirdpolicelivesmatter:
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Dec 8, 2016 22:10
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Sydin posted:In Dexter Fowler news, he apparently has a 4/60 deal on the table from the Cardinals, but is reluctant to sign because of "clubhouse culture" issues, with Matheny in particular apparently being an issue. "He'll ask you to bunt and you can't take walks" 
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Dec 8, 2016 22:13
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Sydin posted:In Dexter Fowler news, he apparently has a 4/60 deal on the table from the Cardinals, but is reluctant to sign because of "clubhouse culture" issues, with Matheny in particular apparently being an issue.  e: beaten
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Dec 8, 2016 22:16
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Chapman's job is to get people to cheer for him.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:22
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Cashman worked magic all season getting rid of garbage and accruing farm pieces then they go and spend 80+ mil on a closer on a rebuilding team. what the heck? well good luck I guess
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Dec 8, 2016 22:25
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MinibarMatchman posted:Cashman worked magic all season getting rid of garbage and accruing farm pieces then they go and spend 80+ mil on a closer on a rebuilding team. what the heck? well good luck I guess The Yankees fully intend and expect to be contenders again by the opt-out, and Chapman is available this year, not next or 2018. I don't really get why people are so baffled.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:37
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Yankees were an above .500 team and 5 back of the wild card. Sure they aren't legitimate WS contenders in 2017, but the playoffs aren't out of the question and they will only be getting stronger in the next few years.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:40
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The Yankees aren't going to tank it for 3 years then compete with their drafted talent-- someone else saved them the trouble by giving them that talent for some relievers. The rebuild was over, the waiting game begins.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:44
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New Concept Hole posted:The Yankees aren't going to tank it for 3 years then compete with their drafted talent-- someone else saved them the trouble by giving them that talent for some relievers. The rebuild was over, the waiting game begins. They are still pretty much rebuilding or they would've tried for Sale and signed EE.
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Dec 8, 2016 22:50
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Paul Zuvella posted:
I mean yeah but the issue doesn't seem to be with the fanbase, it appears to be with how Matheney runs the ship. I know Cards fans love to poo poo on him for not being able to manage his way out of a paper bag, but it's the first I've heard of players complaining. e. In other news: https://twitter.com/EvanDrellich/status/806973811715407876
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Dec 8, 2016 23:08
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If Matheny is the reason the Cardinals can't sign an ATHLETIC outfielder then I sure am glad the FO just extended him for three years.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:09
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https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/806978751833772032
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Dec 8, 2016 23:12
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The reason Fowler isn't signing with the Cardinals is most likely because of Matheny and it's absolutely insane he's going to be an anchor on this team for potential free agents.
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Dec 8, 2016 23:16
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 Did we get Torres?
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