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Khisanth Magus posted:I meant that skorne is the faction it benefits the least, because at def10 it isn't a huge buff. Who knows, maybe it'll end up being good for Cetrati after the errata.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:13
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It's decent for the def 13 cyclops, an maybe decent+ for the ones with Intuition.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:56
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Hey, I'm having no luck finding it, any suggestions of where to get WM stuff online for a price? Some of the guys I work with want to play Journeyman style, so I figured I'd spring for a starter box of Khador to paint and play.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:01
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The Privateer Press free rider policy flattened a lot of the prices but the main stores I've purchased from: GameNerdz Discount Games Inc. Miniature Market Noble Knight Geared Up Gaming The War Store is also pretty popular although I don't purchase much there to dodge state sales tax (NY). Doc's Discount Game Store has okay prices sometimes, but I've been burned with slow shipping turnaround two or three times. Ebay or Amazon can be worth a check as well. Sometimes you can catch the odd item with Prime shipping for cheap.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:43
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Liquid Communism posted:Hey, I'm having no luck finding it, any suggestions of where to get WM stuff online for a price? Some of the guys I work with want to play Journeyman style, so I figured I'd spring for a starter box of Khador to paint and play. Ebay. Especially for cheap battleboxes.
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Dec 16, 2016 05:00
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I think WE&SJ would be fine if they could be scalpeled out better, and Star-Crossed being friendly Faction would only make them useless to a lot of people. I'd be fine with Submerge changing and Star-Crossed staying the same.S.J. posted:Like, the first warmachine expansion book has Vladimir showing up to besiege a Fort with a bunch of Berserkers. The local commander asks him how many he brought and he literally responds "All of them." It looks cool for a minute and then it's one and a half hours of tedium. It also forces skewed list-building if you have to have a way of dealing with 12 Khador heavies. CaptCommy posted:He clarified what he meant by balanced in that specific instance: 
Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 07:34
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Wizard Styles posted:Spam lists are poo poo because they're (usually) binary and I don't need to play a full game to find out if my list can chew through a million Doom Reavers before they overrun me. It doesn't force anything unless it is significant to the point of breaking the meta, which was the entire point.
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Dec 16, 2016 07:39
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S.J. posted:It doesn't force anything unless it is significant to the point of breaking the meta, which was the entire point. I'll say that this can to some degree be solved by specialists, though.
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Dec 16, 2016 07:43
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Wizard Styles posted:Why does it need to break the meta? It's enough if it's a part of it. If it's there I need to be prepared for it. There's pretty much always going to be some outlier that you cannot safely cover in a 2 list pairing regardless of whether or not you're allowed to take large multiples of one thing or another. If it wasn't powerful enough to break the meta then there's a pretty good chance a balanced list can play into it and win, if you have your head about you. Again, that's the whole point. If you can't play into it with any of the lists you have prepared and the list isn't otherwise powerful enough to break the meta, then it's probably your lists or your attitude that need fixed. I don't know enough about you to comment on your attitude though  And yes, specialists were specifically introduced to help deal with these kinds of outlier lists, especially as each faction has a wider variety of options that you need to consider when list building.e: I mean it's funny that you mention Doomy 2 spam because that was a point in time in which those kinds of lists absolutely were meta-bending and required you to specifically tech or practice against them if you expected to see them. In fact that was like a huge part of the back third of Mk2 S.J. fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 07:47
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xiw posted:
I like Feora anyway, she's the only warcaster I've actually played the game with so far. This looks totally awesome and I want one. I guess I might need other people on horses to go with it then.
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Dec 16, 2016 07:59
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AFAIK we don't know if she'll do anything for cavalry or not. I'd guess not since menoth already has a cavalry caster in Kreoss 3, but we'll see.
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Dec 16, 2016 08:15
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So a friend is running an event soon and allowing proxies, so I'm thinking of taking Rask -Wrastler -Blind Walker Brun & Lug Rorsh & Brine Dhalia & Skarath Wrongeye & Snapjaw Blythe & Bull Some random thing for 3 points, probably Lynyssa I hope to have the most stylish army, even if it is not the most effective one
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Dec 16, 2016 09:18
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If you downgrade the Blind Walker you can take Lynus and Edrea! Don't do this though, take a gremlin swarm instead.
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Dec 16, 2016 09:41
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You need to fit Hutchik and Gudrun into this list somehow.
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Dec 16, 2016 10:11
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Unfortunately, I can't downgrade the blindwalker since that is all of rask's warbeast points. Sadly, that means I can't have hutchuck and gudrun (11 points total) since the leftovers I have after journeyman warlocks is 9 points (blythe & bull are 6). I can totally throw in a gremlin instead of Lynyssa. I might even play it against a warmachine faction! EDIT: My only question is if I replace rask, who is there for rage and fury, with sturm & drang ,who has another '&'. Captainicus fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 10:15
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xiw posted:
There needs to be motorcycle handles on the sides of the horse's head, just like in the anime basara.
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Dec 16, 2016 13:23
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Captainicus posted:Unfortunately, I can't downgrade the blindwalker since that is all of rask's warbeast points. Sadly, that means I can't have hutchuck and gudrun (11 points total) since the leftovers I have after journeyman warlocks is 9 points (blythe & bull are 6). I can totally throw in a gremlin instead of Lynyssa. I might even play it against a warmachine faction! So something like this? Minions - The Buddy System Sturm & Drang - WB: +28 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (BG Points Used: 16) - Battle Boar - PC: 7 (BG Points Used: 7) - Razor Boar - PC: 7 (BG Points Used: 5) - Razor Boar Brun Cragback - Cragback & Lug: 16 - Lug Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Rorsh - Rorsh & Brine: 15 - Brine Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw Dannon Blythe & Bull - Blythe & Bull: 6 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
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Dec 16, 2016 14:11
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Wizard Styles posted:It also forces skewed list-building if you have to have a way of dealing with 12 Khador heavies. Khador jacks are getting their points rebalanced though. It's likely going to see the melee heavies going up, berserker chassis getting swapped around so people stop cramming in mad dogs and maybe take ragers and berserkers more, and the non character combined arms jacks getting a point decrease so they see more table. Theyve also hinted in the past that the character jacks would be getting reviewed, though its annoying that they still want to keep poultergeist on drago. As far as una2, they'll probably address that too if it ever actually becomes a problem. I'm still having a hard time seeing it being broken. wearing a lampshade fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 14:14
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Una2 is only really stupidly strong for the same reason every other list in circle is stupidly strong: sentry stones do more for 10 points than pretty much any full 16+5 pt units in the game do (and certainly they do more than any other combination of 10 points of models in the game), so Circle is almost always playing with a point advantage. Once you nerf those little shits into the floor, circle is forced like the rest of us to invest in a proper way for clearing out enemy bodies that'll make it more equitable in terms of how much they need to spend. Circle beasts are incredibly poo poo at clearing out lots of dudes, beyond the occasional stalker + berserk setup which everybody and their mother knows to avoid. I personally don't play sentry stones and can tell y'all that my games when I play circle always feel pretty even.
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Dec 16, 2016 14:34
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Amateur Sketch posted:So something like this? Good call on the bellows crew, that's another pair I can use! Razor boars, too! I think I'm going to have to use the sturm and drang list instead of rask for full duo power.
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Dec 16, 2016 14:41
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Jimmy Hats posted:Una2 is only really stupidly strong for the same reason every other list in circle is stupidly strong: sentry stones do more for 10 points than pretty much any full 16+5 pt units in the game do (and certainly they do more than any other combination of 10 points of models in the game), so Circle is almost always playing with a point advantage. Once you nerf those little shits into the floor, circle is forced like the rest of us to invest in a proper way for clearing out enemy bodies that'll make it more equitable in terms of how much they need to spend. What about the hand of fated reeves killing a million guys a turn? Sentry Stones are BS, but even without them Una2 is pretty egregious imo.
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Dec 16, 2016 15:16
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PaintVagrant posted:What about the hand of fated reeves killing a million guys a turn? Sentry Stones are BS, but even without them Una2 is pretty egregious imo. Reeves cost 20 pts for the full unit (double the cost of 2 stones) and are reliably killable by other units, e-leaps, blasts, sprays, hazards, stiff breezes, harsh words, etc. They also stay dead when you kill them, get progressively weaker as the unit thins out, and aren't 8 box arm 18 prowlers that toss dudes on the field who can then run and contest zones.
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Dec 16, 2016 16:46
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Is the only confirmed nerf to Ret so far the Deadeye/Fortune swap?
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Dec 16, 2016 16:47
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Captainicus posted:Good call on the bellows crew, that's another pair I can use! Razor boars, too! I think I'm going to have to use the sturm and drang list instead of rask for full duo power. I think Sturm will actually be good for a super-solo list, especially when you can Shield Guard with Razor boars and use their bacon to heal the solo warbeasts. Deceleration + gobber cloud could help against gunlines too, and Vision can protect a junior warlock in a clutch moment. Mostly it just sounds like a really funny themed list! Edit: Also Primal + 5 heavies makes for some good options Amateur Sketch fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Dec 16, 2016 |
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Dec 16, 2016 16:54
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I've been running this list for several months to great success. War Room Army Minions - Magnificent Fourteen Theme: No Theme Selected 75 / 75 Army Fuel Cache - Steamroller Objective Rask - WB: +27 - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - Blackhide Wrastler - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) Brun Cragback - Cragback & Lug: 16 - Lug Dahlia Hallyr - Hallyr & Skarath: 17 - Skarath Rorsh - Rorsh & Brine: 15 - Brine Wrong Eye - Wrong Eye & Snapjaw: 17 - Snapjaw Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 3 Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew - Leader & 1 Grunt: 2
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Dec 16, 2016 17:01
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rydiafan posted:I've been running this list for several months to great success. Lists like this are what this nation needs.
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Dec 16, 2016 17:54
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S.J. posted:Lists like this are what this nation needs. Lists like this make me want to buy models.
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Dec 16, 2016 19:10
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Jimmy Hats posted:Reeves cost 20 pts for the full unit (double the cost of 2 stones) and are reliably killable by other units, e-leaps, blasts, sprays, hazards, stiff breezes, harsh words, etc. They also stay dead when you kill them, get progressively weaker as the unit thins out, and aren't 8 box arm 18 prowlers that toss dudes on the field who can then run and contest zones. Yes, Reeves are not Sentry Stones. Sentry Stones are busted and in every list for a reason, but they are not what make Una2 OP. Reeves are in my mind, too good as well. But with HOF they are extra nasty. I thought Idrians were too good with HOF, Reeves are (in some situations) better. 20 CRA+hunter shots at range 12 makes up for the lower pow and rat.
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Dec 16, 2016 20:19
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fadam posted:Is the only confirmed nerf to Ret so far the Deadeye/Fortune swap? Yup. The Ret facebook already has a big whiner post about it. I know it's a downgrade, but I don't feel it's unwarranted or as bad as people are saying. Again, unless drat near every Ret caster get trashed (and trading Deadeye for Fortune is not trashing Ossyan) I don't think Ret is going to suffer much. Their bench is too deep for it to kill them. Ossyan has some obvious power now, and people would rather just choose the OP (and now scraped) obvious path than actually come up with something that might be even 20% novel. Also interesting is the drop-off from Fortune from Deadeye is non-existent or not substantial until 8s are needed to hit. You get ~11% less hits on 8s and 23% less on 9s. It's a dropoff, but it's still very good and should synergy well with the feat. Plus you can use it with Disco now to have a hyper-accurate spray if someone gives you a Brain Damage option.
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Dec 16, 2016 20:38
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I mean, there's no way that's the only change is going to get though. I'll be really surprised if Disco and Sentinels don't get completely dumpstered in January.
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Dec 16, 2016 21:23
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fadam posted:I mean, there's no way that's the only change is going to get though. I'll be really surprised if Disco and Sentinels don't get completely dumpstered in January. Define dumpstered. Disco and Sentinels could become less good and still playable. I think Ossyan is in that category. What do you think that would be done to either of those two that would render them unplayable?
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Dec 16, 2016 22:18
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The Mk2->Mk3->MK3.1 power changes have been a rollercoaster ride for Ret players. I hope it gives them a heart attack.
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Dec 16, 2016 22:35
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PaintVagrant posted:Yes, Reeves are not Sentry Stones. Sentry Stones are busted and in every list for a reason, but they are not what make Una2 OP. Reeves are in my mind, too good as well. But with HOF they are extra nasty. I thought Idrians were too good with HOF, Reeves are (in some situations) better. 20 CRA+hunter shots at range 12 makes up for the lower pow and rat. It's actually 22 shots  I understand what you were getting at, but I'd really like to see all these circles lists get played without sentry stones before I saw any other nerfs. I don't think they'd be winning all the time without them.
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Dec 16, 2016 22:45
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Jimmy Hats posted:It's actually 22 shots Circle isn't necessarily winning all the time as it is even with them.
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Dec 16, 2016 22:55
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rkajdi posted:Define dumpstered. Disco and Sentinels could become less good and still playable. I think Ossyan is in that category. What do you think that would be done to either of those two that would render them unplayable? I'd define it as making them worse than alternatives within the same faction at the exact same role at a similar price. Weakened to the point that you'd only ever take them for aesthetic for fluff reasons. If sentinels are just lovely halberdiers/swordsmen, why take them? I know most people here are in love with PP regardless of what they do, but the 3rd edition transition has shown they are fine with making certain models garbage. My best friend and primary opponent owned Bastions, Zealots, and Exemplar Errants in 2nd edition, no other combat units, and they didn't fair very well. We don't play very much anymore. I was hoping the upcoming errata might fix some pretty big problems. The assertion that Skorne was fine (just not fun) and that they shouldn't fix Spell Slave because it could make a currently garbage warcaster attachment must have has me a lot less hopeful.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:19
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KPC_Mammon posted:I'd define it as making them worse than alternatives within the same faction at the exact same role at a similar price. Weakened to the point that you'd only ever take them for aesthetic for fluff reasons. Yeah, I'm on the same page. I like the overall rule system changes for MK 3: powerup, increased warjack points, more point granularity, removing command checks, etc. Those are all amazing. Some of the in-faction changes? Kind of bizarre. Other than Mercenaries and Minions, I don't the intra-faction balance is any better in Mk3 than it was in MK2. There's still a dumb mix of garbage of and not garbage.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:32
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OMG sriracha pudding! posted:Yeah, I'm on the same page. I like the overall rule system changes for MK 3: powerup, increased warjack points, more point granularity, removing command checks, etc. Those are all amazing. Some of the in-faction changes? Kind of bizarre. Other than Mercenaries and Minions, I don't the intra-faction balance is any better in Mk3 than it was in MK2. There's still a dumb mix of garbage of and not garbage. I mostly play CoC, so this is extra frustrating because other than Perforators the inter-faction balance was really good in 2nd edition. Now I have trouble looking past the PA and Assimilators and half of my options aren't even worth considering.
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Dec 16, 2016 23:40
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rkajdi posted:Also interesting is the drop-off from Fortune from Deadeye is non-existent or not substantial until 8s are needed to hit. You get ~11% less hits on 8s and 23% less on 9s. It's a dropoff, but it's still very good and should synergy well with the feat. Plus you can use it with Disco now to have a hyper-accurate spray if someone gives you a Brain Damage option. Fortune is an upkeep, which means he can't cast it on three units and then feat.
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Dec 17, 2016 00:18
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KPC_Mammon posted:I know most people here are in love with PP regardless of what they do, but the 3rd edition transition has shown they are fine with making certain models garbage. My best friend and primary opponent owned Bastions, Zealots, and Exemplar Errants in 2nd edition, no other combat units, and they didn't fair very well. We don't play very much anymore. Maybe you weren't paying attention in Mark 2, because the majority of any given faction could've easily been considered 'garbage' from a competitive standpoint back then. They didn't say that Skorne were fine competitively unless you're being intentionally obtuse, because the entire conversation is in the context of them acknowledging that they weren't okay and were in the process of an entire rewrite.
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Dec 17, 2016 00:30
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S.J. posted:They didn't say that Skorne were fine competitively unless you're being intentionally obtuse, because the entire conversation is in the context of them acknowledging that they weren't okay and were in the process of an entire rewrite. Did you not read the article where they said that the problem was, if anything, that Skorne was too balanced? They made it pretty clear that they feel they messed up the faction's fun quotent, not their power level. Also, I main CoC, so 50%+ of a faction being hot garbage isn't something I'm used to, sorry.
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Dec 17, 2016 00:41
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