|
ZorajitZorajit posted:You laugh, but the far worse concern is the designer that sincerely believe they can cast magic missile. Down that road lies Wraeththu. These folks are safely in their WoD asylum. rumble in the bunghole posted:I hope you like D&D 6 being developed by Brucato. With the DMG by John Wick.
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 23:14 |
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:In short, grogs hate 4e because they don't get to feel special any more if the jocks get to be special too. I'm a grog that dislikes 4e and generally plays fighters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 00:19
|
|
|
4e's abstraction leads to a lot of things that feel like Murphy's, but you're supposed to reflavor them in a way that is appropriate for the scenario. This is really difficult for people coming from a more simulationist perspective, but flows pretty well for people who play a lot of stuff like FATE.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
Humbug Scoolbus posted:I'm a grog that dislikes 4e and generally plays fighters. I kid, I kid. I still have fun with PF sometimes, as long as you ignore whenever the designers go ultragrog.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 00:55
|
|
|
Humbug Scoolbus posted:I'm a grog that dislikes 4e and generally plays fighters. I too am a masochist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
Serf posted:I too am a masochist. Ya gotta earn your fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 08:28
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:How's that bench, nice and warm? So you play something else and just call it Pathfinder then? 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 08:36
|
|
|
I kind of find it hilarious how the natural predator of the Tarrasque is the common shade. For pathfinder experts, since the tarrasque is just one of the 'spawns of rovagug', is it possible to clown on any of the other spawn in a similiar fashion?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 09:31
|
|
|
Focacciasaurus_Rex posted:I kind of find it hilarious how the natural predator of the Tarrasque is the common shade. I can only assume the others are tougher by virtue of being original designs, whereas the Tarrasque has to keep its obvious flaws and shortcomings because tradition and backwards compatibility say so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 09:35
|
|
|
The most recent version of the Pathfinder tarrasque is immune to ability drain, plus the Pathfinder allip only does ability drain on a critical hit, so the old "control an allip to Wisdom drain the tarrasque to unconsciousness" strategy doesn't work anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 09:50
|
|
|
Yeah they specifically updated the tarrasque a couple years ago in order to break compatibility and have a version that fit their campaign setting better.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 09:52
|
|
|
Humbug Scoolbus posted:I'm a grog that dislikes 4e and generally plays fighters. They're OK in rules cyclopedia I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 11:16
|
|
|
Doresh posted:I can only assume the others are tougher by virtue of being original designs, whereas the Tarrasque has to keep its obvious flaws and shortcomings because tradition and backwards compatibility say so. Compatibility with what? DnD 3.5? I thought that PF was considered a separate system through and through, even if the gears seemed to fit together.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 11:36
|
|
|
The whole point of Pathfinder is to be essentially compatible with all of Paizo's 3.5 adventure paths (including all the ones they'd designed but hadn't released yet).
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 11:39
|
|
|
There is nothing incompatible between the revised Tarrasque and 3.5 anymore than the original Pathfinder version and the 3.5 version. There are two version of the Tarrasque in Pathfinder the "setting neutral" version and the one specifically designed for the Pathfinder setting of Golarion in which it is supposed to be the strongest* Spawn of Rovagug. Those being a collection of demigod children of the setting's god of monsters. Both versions are immune to ability drain but only the Spawn of Rovagug version is immune to ability damage, as ability damage and ability drain are separate things in Pathfinder just like "takes X damage" and "loses X life" are two different things in Magic the Gathering. So allips and shadows can still put the generic version of the tarrasque into a coma but the normally much more powerful wraith is comparatively powerless in attacking the tarrasque. As it isn't just ghost type undead that are needed to kill the tarrasque but specifically low level species of that sort of undead. The funniest bit is that the Spawn of Rovagug version of the Tarrasque is not only a straight upgrade of the previous Tarrasque it doesn't change all that much and mostly seems designed to stop people from punk killing the Tarrasque. No abilities are taken away and no statistics are changed, and only a few abilities are added: the aforementioned immunity to ability damage, some rules language behind the Tarrasque long periods of hibernation which were before just flavor-text, and immunity to all of the various movement denial abilities people can use to screw up charges like wall spells, the create pit spell, and grease. *The Spawn of Rovagug are all puzzle monsters to one degree or another but the Monarch Worm or Firebleeder are far more likely to flatout kill players for screwing up the gimmick than the Tarrasque. Also in universe the Tarrasque has by far the least efficient means of spreading massive destruction of the Spawn.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 11:49
|
|
|
Red Metal posted:The most recent version of the Pathfinder tarrasque is immune to ability drain, plus the Pathfinder allip only does ability drain on a critical hit, so the old "control an allip to Wisdom drain the tarrasque to unconsciousness" strategy doesn't work anymore. But does it finally have an atomic breath attack? Rexides posted:Compatibility with what? DnD 3.5? I thought that PF was considered a separate system through and through, even if the gears seemed to fit together. It's essentially a (more or less) heavily houseruled 3.5 that was at least initially pitched as being compatible with the old stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 11:57
|
|
|
Rexides posted:Compatibility with what? DnD 3.5? I thought that PF was considered a separate system through and through, even if the gears seemed to fit together. Yes, 3.5. PF's raison d'etre was to let Paizo keep publishing 3.5 adventures even after the release of the much more restrictive 4e license. Paizo had to make its own proprietary game system first so that the adventures would be wink wink nudge nudge Pathfinder adventures rather than D&D adventures.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 12:00
|
|
|
I have never understood that decision because adventures have almost always been loss-leaders for systems. You have a smaller target audience (GMs who buy adventures versus everyone who buys the player-facing books), they actually take a good chunk of money and time to do right, and you have to keep the price point below that of your already evergreen core books or you'll sell exactly zero copies. I mean the whole point of the D20 license was to get WotC out of the adventure market and into the more lucrative splat books. It was totally worded wrong for that, but that was the intent. I've never read a Paizo adventure path, maybe they're as substandard as the rest of PF's crunch. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 13:53
|
|
|
The adventure paths and more specifically the subscriptions for them are Paizo's biggest money maker outside of the core hardback books. They vary from an absolute garbage fire to interesting ideas executed unevenly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 13:57
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:The adventure paths and more specifically the subscriptions for them are Paizo's biggest money maker outside of the core hardback books. Par for the course from them. I guess that means they'll keep going as long as they have a loyal (if dull) fanbase then. I certainly would never pay for an adventure path that could be described as a garbage fire, but then again I'm not sure I've bought an adventure since the end of AD&D2e.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 14:12
|
|
|
I've honestly never really liked premade adventures in any setting. Though something to point out is that Pathfinder adventure path books are about 80 pages apiece and include content besides the adventure itself. Each one has a few new magic items, a lore chapter regarding some component of the pathfinder setting usually a specific location or deity related to the adventure, a fiction bit which are usually completely terrible, and a bestiary of four to six new monsters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 14:34
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:I've honestly never really liked premade adventures in any setting. Though something to point out is that Pathfinder adventure path books are about 80 pages apiece and include content besides the adventure itself. Each one has a few new magic items, a lore chapter regarding some component of the pathfinder setting usually a specific location or deity related to the adventure, a fiction bit which are usually completely terrible, and a bestiary of four to six new monsters. Or fun new rule systems that would later make it into a proper rule book, like the Bioware-esque dating rules that ensure your skill-starved Fighter will never score with anyone, while the racist Bard gets the hot Japanese princess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
Or a caravan combat rules system which literally cannot work at all, and was never added to the main game's rulebooks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 16:05
|
|
|
Doresh posted:Or fun new rule systems that would later make it into a proper rule book, like the Bioware-esque dating rules that ensure your skill-starved Fighter will never score with anyone, while the racist Bard gets the hot Japanese princess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 16:08
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Isn't there a post in this thread about how the optimal wooing method ended up being full-on PUA negging? Followed up by sweet power ballads.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 17:36
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:I have never understood that decision because adventures have almost always been loss-leaders for systems. You have a smaller target audience (GMs who buy adventures versus everyone who buys the player-facing books), they actually take a good chunk of money and time to do right, and you have to keep the price point below that of your already evergreen core books or you'll sell exactly zero copies. I mean the whole point of the D20 license was to get WotC out of the adventure market and into the more lucrative splat books. I believe the thinking here is that you can't keep doing "pure crunch" books because there are only so many things that does need crunch representation in the first place, as evidenced by things like the PF Occult classes really scraping the bottom of the barrel in stuff to mechanically represent that isn't or hasn't been done before (and better). Whereas you can keep churning out adventures as long as there are still stories to be told. The other aspect is that Paizo sells these in "subscriptions", where you get a steady stream of adventures for a recurring cost, so there's no danger of "a bad adventure won't sell" unless your subscription output is so consistently bad that people unsubscribe completely. The other other aspect is that Paizo does throw in crunch into these adventures anyway in the form of items and feats and prestige classes, etc. that fit into the adventure, such as a "Trench Fighter" archetype for a Fighter in the Kill Rasputin in 1900s Russia adventure path. Sometimes it's folded into the adventure book itself, and other times it's part of a "Player's Companion".
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 17:45
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Isn't there a post in this thread about how the optimal wooing method ended up being full-on PUA negging? Exactly. gradenko_2000 posted:I believe the thinking here is that you can't keep doing "pure crunch" books because there are only so many things that does need crunch representation in the first place, as evidenced by things like the PF Occult classes really scraping the bottom of the barrel in stuff to mechanically represent that isn't or hasn't been done before (and better). I think they really started to run out of ideas when they made a class that was just Batman. With an archetype that was a magical girl - except not really because that archetype revolved less around killing stuff with punches and laser beams and more around a mascot animal companion. Because those talking cats and weird puffballs with annyoing verbal tics are apparently the main feature.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 18:21
|
|
|
Even better, the example art of the magical girl archetype was pretty obviously based on a character who, when confronted with magical animal companions, rightly tries to kill them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 18:44
|
|
|
unseenlibrarian posted:Even better, the example art of the magical girl archetype was pretty obviously based on a character who, when confronted with magical animal companions, rightly tries to kill them. Also a character whose power set involves abusing Time Stop and killing stuff with explosive and guns. I don't think you can do that with the Summoner's gimped spell list the archetype gets. But hey, at least you get Summon Monster. Sailor Moon used that all the time, right?!
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 18:54
|
|
|
Doresh posted:I think they really started to run out of ideas when they made a class that was just Batman. With an archetype that was a magical girl - except not really because that archetype revolved less around killing stuff with punches and laser beams and more around a mascot animal companion. Because those talking cats and weird puffballs with annyoing verbal tics are apparently the main feature. Wasn't it more specifically about making your animal companion swole as gently caress, which is also generally not a thing in most magical girl anime?
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 19:06
|
|
|
spectralent posted:Wasn't it more specifically about making your animal companion swole as gently caress, which is also generally not a thing in most magical girl anime? That's what I was getting at. The most they contribute to any kind of encounter is if you need them to transform in the first place, though that's more of a drawback than anything else. Or you have the very rare case of the mascot turning into a magical girl, but that sounds more like an archetype in and of itself. But in Pathfinder, what you're really supposed to do is relive the halcyon days of druids turning their animal companion into a rage dinosaur. I think they might've confused magical girls with Digimon. Doresh fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Jan 28, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:I've honestly never really liked premade adventures in any setting. Though something to point out is that Pathfinder adventure path books are about 80 pages apiece and include content besides the adventure itself. Each one has a few new magic items, a lore chapter regarding some component of the pathfinder setting usually a specific location or deity related to the adventure, a fiction bit which are usually completely terrible, and a bestiary of four to six new monsters. As someone who's currently running one of the Paizo Adventure Paths (a collection of six adventures), I like having the pre-existing framework to use as a guideline to modify and insert my own stuff. It's the equivalent of grabbing a frozen dinner or bag of chips rather than cooking - much less effort for something that's acceptable enough if you're willing to season to taste.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2017 21:46
|
|
|
spectralent posted:Wasn't it more specifically about making your animal companion swole as gently caress, which is also generally not a thing in most magical girl anime? To be honest, I would watch more magical girl shows if they did that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
Doresh posted:But in Pathfinder, what you're really supposed to do is relive the halcyon days of druids turning their animal companion into a rage dinosaur. I think they might've confused magical girls with Digimon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Dareon posted:To be honest, I would watch more magical girl shows if they did that. Kero from Cardcaptor Sakura kinda does that. OTOH, :clamprelationships:, so.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:I would play the gently caress out of that campaign. Goon made Chroma Chronicles was still in development when I looked last. It features the Trainer, a class where the combat role isn't fulfilled by the PC but by a buddy creature that you generate at Character Creation, essentially Ash or the Digidestined. You can also be Sailor Moon or Goku. starglitchgames.tumblr.com
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 02:50
|
|
|
spectralent posted:Kero from Cardcaptor Sakura kinda does that. OTOH, :clamprelationships:, so. Yeah but by the point they do that Kero's usefulness as a mascot was pretty limited. Having him run interference on indirect threats let them escalate conflicts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 02:56
|
|
|
Kwyndig posted:Yeah but by the point they do that Kero's usefulness as a mascot was pretty limited. Having him run interference on indirect threats let them escalate conflicts. It was literally the only case I could think of where the mascot critter tries to deck things. There's Yuuno in Nanoha but does he actually do any magic while he's a ferret?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 02:58
|
|
|
Yuuno only cast support magic when he was in animal form. Even afterward I don't remember him casting any serious attack magic.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 03:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 23:14 |
|
|
It's not really magical girl, but there's also Kirara/Kilala in Inuyasha for cute mascot creature that can hulk out into beast mode. Chippo doesn't bring poo poo to the table, though. I don't have anything meaningful to contribute, I'm just a loser who felt the need to add on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2017 03:07
|
|
