|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 18:28 |
|
|
Ah so that's what a "turbo roundabout" looks like.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2018 23:32
|
|
|
nm posted:^^^^^^^^ Weirdly, that junction has stop signs on the satellite view but give way signs on street view. I guess the main fear is compliance on such an open stretch of road. Plant a hedge?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 10:51
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFEfr7Amn6U Great little video on Houten and how all traffic is forced onto the ring road since that's the only access in/out of each neighbourhood. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 17:09
|
|
|
Houten is also a POS newtown bedroom community as far as I know but hey, I applaud them for the effort.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
Please tell me they have selective permiability so people don't have to walk 5 miles to visit the neighbor behind them. Twisty col de sac neighborhoods generally are terrible about this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 19:02
|
|
|
Houten is an absolutely awful cycling town. I tried to cycle through it twice, and yes there's bike paths connecting all the little roads, but there's 1. no direction signs anywhere and 2. with all the weird curvy bits it's real easy to lose complete track of the direction you're going (especially if the sun isn't out). I tried to cycle through it twice and I got lost twice. This was before smartphones got common so no google maps. One time I backtracked a whole bunch, went out the way I came in, and went around it. The other time, I didn't want to backtrack so instead I cycled along the car-only ring road for a bit to find an exit out of the town on the right side. It seems that once you enter they don't ever want you to escape. I've never had this problem cycling through any other city - in the Netherlands or elsewhere. I vote for Houten as worst cycling town in the Netherlands. (and tbh I've heard of other people running into the same problem)
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
CopperHound posted:Please tell me they have selective permiability so people don't have to walk 5 miles to visit the neighbor behind them. For cycling/walking all connections are fast and direct, it's only cars that need to go around the long way, this helps encourage people not to drive locally unless they really need to, and keeps the streets very safe and pleasant. The video explains it all. Also if any dutch people think this is a terrible lovely suburban bedroom community they should see 99% of the suburbs of north america. Houten is some sort of amenity-rich utopia compared to the poo poo we have here. Well served train station and shops within walking distance? Kids can walk/cycle to school safely on their own? The entire landscape not given over to fast moving traffic and surface parking lots? The worst dutch new-town is better than most of what we have here  It's weird though that the cyclists union picked Houton as the best cycling city in NL for the year though if apparently it's so bad even for dutch suburban standards?? Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:For cycling/walking all connections are fast and direct, it's only cars that need to go around the long way, this helps encourage people not to drive locally unless they really need to, and keeps the streets very safe and pleasant. The video explains it all. The hell are you talking about. It looks exactly like a lot of lovely developments all over the US and presumably Canada. Including the fact that you can in theory walk/bike between the sections fine but: Carbon dioxide posted:Houten is an absolutely awful cycling town. I tried to cycle through it twice, and yes there's bike paths connecting all the little roads, but there's 1. no direction signs anywhere and 2. with all the weird curvy bits it's real easy to lose complete track of the direction you're going (especially if the sun isn't out). You see this same sort of issue a lot with suburban development in the US. There's bits where bikes and pedestrians can cut through where cars can't, but it ends up poorly marked and the wiggly roads further disorient you. And the idea that since alternate paths exist people won't bother to drive is also rather laughable, considering as most of the people aren't living in the same little section where they work, or even shop or one right next it to walk to. Instead you're going to be driving out to the main road regardless on the way to the place those are.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 19:59
|
|
|
fishmech posted:The hell are you talking about. It looks exactly like a lot of lovely developments all over the US and presumably Canada. Including the fact that you can in theory walk/bike between the sections fine but: 66% of trips in Houten are made without a car, that's extremely impressive compared to the modeshares for typical north american suburbia. The context of the development is important too, wiggly dead-end streets that don't allow through traffic and maybe has some permeability for peds/bikes is not a foreign concept in parts of north america (especially newer suburbs) but they key difference is that people in those areas still primarily drive for most trips, to drop off the kids at school, to grab a take-away dinner, to go to the dentist, to go to work. Suburbs like Houten have most basic services within a comfortable bike/walking distance AND have a railway station right in the middle making it very easy to walk to the station, jump on a train, and be in Utrecht or another major city all without the absolute need for a car. I mean it's still a bland sterile suburb I wouldn't want to live in, but when compared to the typical suburban developments we get here it's a huge improvement in terms of modeshare.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
You could just live in an actual town and not a suburb at all. People here in RED STATE HELL TRUMPZONE just ride their bikes in the middle of the goddamn street.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:The context of the development is important too, wiggly dead-end streets that don't allow through traffic and maybe has some permeability for peds/bikes is not a foreign concept in parts of north america e:this is in the context of curvy col de sac hell, grids with selective permeability are easy enough to navigate without much signage. e2: got around to watching that Hauten video. Despite opinions about the neighborhood itself, I like the methods used to keep traffic slow. In the states we build a street with a width and sight lines for 45mph on it then just put up a 25mph sign and call it good. If that doesn't work, add a stop sign at every intersection. If that still doesn't work, add speed tables. If that still doesn't work... uhm... complain on facebook? CopperHound fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 01:00
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:66% of trips in Houten are made without a car, that's extremely impressive compared to the modeshares for typical north american suburbia. The context of the development is important too, wiggly dead-end streets that don't allow through traffic and maybe has some permeability for peds/bikes is not a foreign concept in parts of north america (especially newer suburbs) but they key difference is that people in those areas still primarily drive for most trips, to drop off the kids at school, to grab a take-away dinner, to go to the dentist, to go to work. Suburbs like Houten have most basic services within a comfortable bike/walking distance AND have a railway station right in the middle making it very easy to walk to the station, jump on a train, and be in Utrecht or another major city all without the absolute need for a car. Over half the commuters in Houten still drive for their commute, according to the same sources that say 66% of trips in Houten are not by car, presumably because they do not live in Houten and a large percentage of them do not work somewhere that makes sense for a commute by the rail. That's really not impressive compared to lots of suburbs around the US. The source also indicates that Houten residents are very likely to take a car for getting groceries for instance. It's also for that matter directly adjacent to the core city in its area, Utrecht, population over 300,000. No portion within the ring road is more than 6.3 miles from that city's center though also none's closer than about 3.8, there is a small amount of farmland and a set of freeways that one must bike or drive through to get anywhere of note in the city if you're not taking the train. So this is not really a suburb of the type you're usually on about in the first place. A fair comparison for walkability/transit access/etc would be something like American streetcar suburbs of the Northeast rather than some cookie cutter monstrosity on the outskirts of Phoenix.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 01:34
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Over half the commuters in Houten still drive for their commute, according to the same sources that say 66% of trips in Houten are not by car, presumably because they do not live in Houten and a large percentage of them do not work somewhere that makes sense for a commute by the rail. That's really not impressive compared to lots of suburbs around the US. The source also indicates that Houten residents are very likely to take a car for getting groceries for instance. Note that the city center of Utrecht is absolute hell to navigate through with car, if you can get through at all. Many streets are pedestrian only or public transit (buses/taxis) only. The once that aren't are horribly narrow and full of bikes. Also, the cost for parking your car in the center is out of the roof. The official recommendation if you come from far is to park your car in one of the large parking garages near Utrecht's outer ring road and take a direct tram/bus connection to the center from there. And that's what I'd recommend too because it's basically impossible to get in there by car. Of course trucks can get through with some careful driving, and at night when there's not many pedestrians they're allowed basically everywhere for deliveries, so deliveries are still possible. But it's absolutely not car-friendly. So folks from Houten would just take the train from the Houten station to get to Utrecht, as it's much quicker and much more convenient. Or, well, with that small distance, a lot of people would just take the bike from Houten to Utrecht. Utrecht center does have great, free, underground bike parking which is guarded 24/7 so that's fine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 07:58
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:You could just live in an actual town and not a suburb at all. People here in RED STATE HELL TRUMPZONE just ride their bikes in the middle of the goddamn street. Hello from RSTH! We do that because when anyone proposes actual cycling infrastructure non-cyclists wail and gnash their teeth at the thought of normal-width lanes that cause them to drive under 45 in the city or losing even a single parking space. So in order to go anywhere we have to ride in the road, and riding on the edge of the lane results in drivers whipping they insanely oversized single occupant vehicles by within inches of killing us rather than wait for a safe place to pass. Taking the lane forces drivers to treat us like vehicles and safely change lanes to pass. Or kill us if they feel like it or are in too much of a hurry to pay attention. Whichever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 13:47
|
|
|
Loucks posted:Hello from RSTH! We do that because when anyone proposes actual cycling infrastructure non-cyclists wail and gnash their teeth at the thought of normal-width lanes that cause them to drive under 45 in the city or losing even a single parking space. So in order to go anywhere we have to ride in the road, and riding on the edge of the lane results in drivers whipping they insanely oversized single occupant vehicles by within inches of killing us rather than wait for a safe place to pass. Taking the lane forces drivers to treat us like vehicles and safely change lanes to pass. Or kill us if they feel like it or are in too much of a hurry to pay attention. Whichever. Hey I wasn't poo poo talkin! Personally I treat bikes and peds like cars, I give them the whole lane when I pass. Imagine how vexed euros would be by the concept of an amish horse and buggy on the drat road.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:Hey I wasn't poo poo talkin! Personally I treat bikes and peds like cars, I give them the whole lane when I pass. Imagine how vexed euros would be by the concept of an amish horse and buggy on the drat road. This was pretty surprising when I was in Florida. I'm driving on these huge stroads everywhere, everything seems extremely fast and unsafe even for cars let alone other users, and then there's some menonites on trikes just confidently taking the lane while people road-rage around them trying to pass. Although in places like Romania you'll still absolutely see farmers hauling poo poo around the countryside in horse (or mule) carts. In Italy they even have a recycling collection donkey service. Half because it ended up being cheaper and more nimble than a tiny garbage truck, and half because it was a great publicity stunt that increased recycling rates because who doesn't love a visit from the waste donkey? 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 18:24
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Note that the city center of Utrecht is absolute hell to navigate through with car, if you can get through at all. Many streets are pedestrian only or public transit (buses/taxis) only. The once that aren't are horribly narrow and full of bikes. Also, the cost for parking your car in the center is out of the roof. The official recommendation if you come from far is to park your car in one of the large parking garages near Utrecht's outer ring road and take a direct tram/bus connection to the center from there. And that's what I'd recommend too because it's basically impossible to get in there by car. I don't see how that's really relevant? The people in Houten are still car commuting quite a bit - again half the commuters do so by car. And I'm not really following why "it's expensive to park in the city center itself" should mean people wouldn't be driving to the whole city of Utrecht. Houten doesn't really seem to be doing anything particularly special compared to other close-in towns on a sufficient passenger rail line around that area, other than having the gimmick ring road and kinda weird ped/bike system that make it look a bit like a smaller scale Milton Keynes. The town doesn't seem to be particularly well situated to drive to some other major employment center either, at least to the level to explain why half the commuting is still done by car if it's not into Utrecht or other adjoining towns. fishmech fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jan 17, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2018 23:53
|
|
|
 I had a disagreement over this. Both drivers wish to make conflicting left turns. The green car arrived first. Are their any jurisdictions where the pink car doesn’t have the right of way? This textbook agrees with my understanding. quote:Vehicles turning left from the major street onto the minor street yield only to conflicting major street through and right-turning vehicles. All other conflicting movements yield to these major street left-turning movements.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 11:16
|
|
|
Well I'm probably in a different jurisdiction than you so my opinion matters little, but even so: That stop sign must mean something, right?
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 13:34
|
|
|
Even if there wasn't a stop sign, the green car would still have to yield.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 13:41
|
|
|
I guarantee the green car yields 100% of the time in all jurisdictions in the US. Left turners onto a road are at the end of the line and must yield to all traffic on the road that they are attempting to join.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 14:25
|
|
|
Yeah, as far as I know the green car would yield 100% of the time (or...should, there's no accounting for stupid) simply because it's on the smaller road. The larger road has priority, doubly so since it doesn't stop itself. This priority would generally be further reinforced by the dozens of vehicles flying by and not stopping for the smaller feeder road the green car is on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
The only exception I can think of is something like this: (I didn't draw those lines btw) Where the traffic from the green lines always has to yield to the traffic on/from the red line because the red line is the main road here, even if a car from the green line has to go 'straight ahead'.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 19:44
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:
Arriving first has nothing to do with it. A stop sign means to stop until the intersection is clear to make a movement. It means "to yield" but with the additional command of "come to a complete stop." Whatever movement the stopped car makes they still have to yield the right of way to other vehicles that have the right of way. Unless the other left turning vehicle has to stop prior to making the left turn in which case the green car would have the right of way. The only circumstance where the green car would have the right of way is if it is already making the left turn when the pink car is approaching.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 21:14
|
|
|
Neutrino posted:Arriving first has nothing to do with it. A stop sign means to stop until the intersection is clear to make a movement. It means "to yield" but with the additional command of "come to a complete stop." Whatever movement the stopped car makes they still have to yield the right of way to other vehicles that have the right of way. Unless the other left turning vehicle has to stop prior to making the left turn in which case the green car would have the right of way. The only circumstance where the green car would have the right of way is if it is already making the left turn when the pink car is approaching. Note that a stop sign as a yield sign + extra condition seems to be a mostly European thing. In Europe, if you see a stop sign you know the other road has full priority and you have to wait until there's no more cars approaching on it. On the other hand, America has these four-way stop sign intersections where no specific road has priority and everyone has to stop, and the vehicle that arrived first gets to go first. The stop sign actually has a subtly different meaning in different parts of the world.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Note that a stop sign as a yield sign + extra condition seems to be a mostly European thing. In Europe, if you see a stop sign you know the other road has full priority and you have to wait until there's no more cars approaching on it. On the other hand, America has these four-way stop sign intersections where no specific road has priority and everyone has to stop, and the vehicle that arrived first gets to go first. The stop sign actually has a subtly different meaning in different parts of the world. I'm speaking from an American perspective so can't say what the rules are in the EU. This is what I learned in Driver's Ed back in the day - maybe it's different for you younger kids? A four way stop is a little different but that isn't the case here. Even with a four way stop, the first person out of the gate, so to speak, is the one that has the right of way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 22:15
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Note that a stop sign as a yield sign + extra condition seems to be a mostly European thing. In Europe, if you see a stop sign you know the other road has full priority and you have to wait until there's no more cars approaching on it. On the other hand, America has these four-way stop sign intersections where no specific road has priority and everyone has to stop, and the vehicle that arrived first gets to go first. The stop sign actually has a subtly different meaning in different parts of the world. No, it's an everywhere thing. I picked a random state (Ohio below), and it agreed with my state which I looked up earlier. quote:(A) Except when directed to proceed by a law enforcement officer, every driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2018 22:25
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:The only exception I can think of is something like this: In this case based on the picture the red road has priority because the intersection with the green roads is "geconstrueerd als uitrit" (constructed as driveway). We can't tell the red road is the main road without sign B1. 
NihilismNow fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 23, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
Well yes. Wasn't about to cite exact Dutch traffic rules to the folks in this thread.  Anyway, http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-01/23/c_136918319.htm quote:In just eight and a half hours, over 1,500 workers completed the installation of a new railway line as part of a train station upgrade in east China's Fujian Province.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2018 23:19
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Well yes. Wasn't about to cite exact Dutch traffic rules to the folks in this thread. I have to imagine building infrastructure in China is about like in Sim City. There's nothing to stop you from doing it and then it happens over night...
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2018 03:21
|
|
|
It would be REALLY COOL if MassDOT's road inventory file wasn't MISSING ROADS. It would also be REALLY COOL if their updated shapefile was able to be downloaded but it errors out for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 00:02
|
|
|
Make this happen, it'll be like giant motorised minigolf! https://twitter.com/danielbowen/status/956781729670356992
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 08:34
|
|
|
Opals25 posted:I have to imagine building infrastructure in China is about like in Sim City. There's nothing to stop you from doing it and then it happens over night... Their population means they can throw an absolutely absurd amount of workers at a project. It likely helped that all the rail beds were already there so they could basically take the old stuff up/plop the new stuff down with minimal hassle. Still the amount of prep work needed to make such a feat possible, making sure everything is in the right place at the right time, is mind-boggling.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 14:30
|
|
|
Alkydere posted:Their population means they can throw an absolutely absurd amount of workers at a project. It likely helped that all the rail beds were already there so they could basically take the old stuff up/plop the new stuff down with minimal hassle. I think it would be an interesting challenge to be a Project Manager on any of their projects. Resources don't seem to be as big of an issue as in the West. Quality control is another story.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 15:40
|
|
|
Opals25 posted:I have to imagine building infrastructure in China is about like in Sim City. There's nothing to stop you from doing it and then it happens over night... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-41303312
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 22:31
|
|
|
.
sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2018 23:49
|
|
|
Neutrino posted:I think it would be an interesting challenge to be a Project Manager on any of their projects. Resources don't seem to be as big of an issue as in the West. Quality control is another story. Given that the rail line is intended to operate at much higher speeds than the ones in the US at least, I'm sure that quality control is probably excellent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2018 01:08
|
|
|
CopperHound posted:There is usually no wayfinding on these. Whenever I find one it is like finding a secret passageway behind a book case. The only exception I can think of with signage to lead through these is Davis, CA. Yeah it's an interesting thing in Vancouver how Google Maps still hasn't figured out which of the traffic calming diverters / closed intersections are permeable to bikes. The directions it gives, even along the bike roads, often have weird diversions around car impermeable intersections.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2018 03:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 18:28 |
|
|
Lead out in cuffs posted:Yeah it's an interesting thing in Vancouver how Google Maps still hasn't figured out which of the traffic calming diverters / closed intersections are permeable to bikes. The directions it gives, even along the bike roads, often have weird diversions around car impermeable intersections. Are you reporting this when you encounter it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2018 03:53
|
|