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In other news, it seems like the Z-20 (Chinhawk) has been deemed operational. https://twitter.com/xinfengcao/status/973115121051385857  
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Apr 1, 2018 16:56
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Dante80 posted:In other news, it seems like the Z-20 (Chinhawk) has been deemed operational. Not very subtle are they?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:00
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Dante80 posted:In other news, it seems like the Z-20 (Chinhawk) has been deemed operational. Is this the derivative from Pakistan selling them the botched raid helicopter?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:02
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Did they at least pay a fee for the design?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:02
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Dante80 posted:Everyone has been butt-raping the seas for close to two centuries now, it's just that at this point in time China (and to a lesser extend India) do it a bit more than others. Saying that should not automatically bring an anti-asian bias into mind. No.
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Apr 1, 2018 17:10
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LingcodKilla posted:Is this the derivative from Pakistan selling them the botched raid helicopter? Don't know why they'd need to go to all that trouble, PLA's been operating S-70s for decades.
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Apr 1, 2018 17:12
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Raenir Salazar posted:Did they at least pay a fee for the design? Anyone who sells anything to China at this point should just be assuming that they plan on stealing it and producing themselves. That said, the Z-20 has a completely different rotor system, as an example, so it’s not a bolt-for-bolt copy. ChiCom regard for IP in general is laughable.
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Apr 1, 2018 17:12
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MrYenko posted:Anyone who sells anything to China at this point should just be assuming that they plan on stealing it and producing themselves. The 1970's want their slurs back.
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Apr 1, 2018 17:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:Did they at least pay a fee for the design? hahah...that was a good one. They actually bought a number of civilian class S-70s in the 80's...and proceeded to reverse-engineer them (in typical 80's-90's PLA fashion). There are also some rumors that they got some tech from the chopper in the Laden raid, although I'm not sure that they got much from it. The first prototype of the Z-20 flew in 2013..and the program had been very quiet for a while. Their recent media pictures suggest that they have proofed the design and moved to production (they have very big needs for medium transport helicopters). The helicopter has a 5 blade main rotor and indigenous engines producing more Hp than the American T700s (they need more oomph for operating them in Tibet). Dante80 fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 17:17
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Raenir Salazar posted:The 1970's want their slurs back. That’s a contraction. It’s not like companies in the RoC act in the same way. Or can we not criticize the politics of communist countries in the Cold War thread anymore?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:18
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Is it a slur against the Chinese or the communists?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:19
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MrYenko posted:Anyone who sells anything to China at this point should just be assuming that they plan on stealing it and producing themselves. Btw...after what happened with J-10B, I was rather surprised that the Russians decided to sell S-400 SAMs and SU-35 planes to PLA in 2015. Both systems finished delivery this month. Dante80 fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 17:22
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MrYenko posted:That’s a contraction. It’s not like companies in the RoC act in the same way. Pretty sure it's about on par with "gook"; there was a kerfuffle in the Scifi community with people calling Asian authors chicoms. Clearly it's being used as a slur, so maybe don't use it?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:27
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Raenir Salazar posted:Pretty sure it's about on par with "gook"; there was a kerfuffle in the Scifi community with people calling Asian authors chicoms. Clearly it's being used as a slur, so maybe don't use it? It doesn’t stand for China Command?
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Apr 1, 2018 17:43
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It stands for Chinese Communist and it's definitely an aged term but calling it a racial slur isn't quite right. It's cold war era political shorthand and anti Communist far more than it is anything else. It was a Vietnam era derogatory slur though and anyone using it in tyool 2018 is trying way too hard. The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 17:47
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Cat Army 
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JcDent posted:Africa? I bet they'll love replacing/adding to white exploiters with Asian ones :/ Why are you using the future tense to describe the present?
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Apr 1, 2018 18:02
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MrYenko posted:That’s a contraction. It’s not like companies in the RoC act in the same way. If you actually think modern China is anything close to communist then you might want to just listen for a while. But I definitely see your point on "it's a contraction, not a slur." That's never happened before, after all.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:05
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Raenir Salazar posted:The 1970's want their slurs back. MrYenko posted:That’s a contraction. It’s not like companies in the RoC act in the same way. I agree; Russia and China regularly do bad things, and it is in no way bad thinking to condemn them for it, even if we don't immediately follow it up with "but the west is bad too" Slightly more on topic: what do y'all think of this article on Russia? It has some extremely damning facts; basically oligarchs and corruption have siphoned off so much resources that it has severely retarded Russian economic growth. Putin's rule is do bad that I think the author thinks a breakup of Russia is possible, with regional identities emerging as national ones as the Russian fed becomes ever more centralized and ineffective. Also on point: when Chinese and Russian corruption collide Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Apr 1, 2018 |
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Apr 1, 2018 18:27
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Space Gopher posted:If you actually think modern China is anything close to communist then you might want to just listen for a while. Last I checked, the Communist Party of China still held a monopoly on power in the mainland.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:29
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Sperglord Actual posted:Last I checked, the Communist Party of China still held a monopoly on power in the mainland. ...And I refuse to call any country with a dictator-for-life a “republic,” even ironically.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:34
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The issue is using a word that's been appropriated as an ethnic slur; not that he's condemning them for IP theft.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:34
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Dante80 posted:In other news, it seems like the Z-20 (Chinhawk) has been deemed operational. It's quite crude compared to a UH_60. The stabilator in particular looks very blocky and not as aerodynamic as the real thing.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:The issue is using a word that's been appropriated as an ethnic slur; not that he's condemning them for IP theft. I wouldn't call anyone but a Chinese Communist a ChiCom, so what's the problem? The knock-off UH-60 is a ChiCom design.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:39
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Are you also going to claim that their intentions are inscrutable?
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Apr 1, 2018 18:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:Are you also going to claim that their intentions are inscrutable? They're making a copy of the best medium lift helicopter in the world. That's pretty scrutable.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:44
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Raenir Salazar posted:The issue is using a word that's been appropriated as an ethnic slur; ChiCom strikes me as supremely outdated as opposed to racist, but then again, I've seen plenty of other things go that way where it just isn't a good thing to say anymore. A few examples: -Say quagmire or enduring problem, not tar baby (I thought that went without saying, but a superior referred to a sticky situation as a tar baby just last week, and it was awkward for a lot more people than just me, given the shocked looks) -Say DPRK forces or North Korean forces, not Norks (especially if nork is used to refer to all North Koreans, including civilians). Nork is still used informally from time to time in the US military, but you won't see anyone put it to writing in any formal presentation or writing. -A Haaji can be a person who completed the Haaj and used a term of respect. Don't call every Arab/Persian a Haaji. edit: That UH-60 lookalike has been used as an example of the limitations of visual aircraft recognition for a while. I won't say clone, because things often look very similar without actually being a copy, except perhaps in concept. I don't know if it's accurate to say copy or not.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:46
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SimonCat posted:They're making a copy of the best medium lift helicopter in the world. That's pretty scrutable. But it's not an MI-8 copy? 
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Apr 1, 2018 18:46
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MRC48B posted:But it's not an MI-8 copy? 
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Apr 1, 2018 18:54
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mlmp08 posted:ChiCom strikes me as supremely outdated as opposed to racist, but then again, I've seen plenty of other things go that way where it just isn't a good thing to say anymore. Right, it's dated and come from an era when those terms were exclusively used as a short hand for "Enemy"; though I have witnessed and read accounts of it being used recently as a racial slur such as when Alyssa Wong won the Nebula awards in 2015 and the editor that called her a Chicom leapt to the same defence, "It only means CHINESE COMMUNIST" which well, she's from the US. So it seems to me there are definately some bad folks that aren't using to according to the same strict standards here.
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Apr 1, 2018 18:58
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MRC48B posted:But it's not an MI-8 copy? I've been around both, the MI-8 is a piece of poo poo compared to a 60. The Mi-8 is basically a 1950's helicopter, like a Huey, it's about as survivable too. It doesn't the thought put into that the Sikorsky does in the small details.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:00
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Raenir Salazar posted:Right, it's dated and come from an era when those terms were exclusively used as a short hand for "Enemy"; though I have witnessed and read accounts of it being used recently as a racial slur such as when Alyssa Wong won the Nebula awards in 2015 and the editor that called her a Chicom leapt to the same defence, "It only means CHINESE COMMUNIST" which well, she's from the US. So it seems to me there are definately some bad folks that aren't using to according to the same strict standards here. You get this pissed when people say "Kraut?"
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Apr 1, 2018 19:01
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MRC48B posted:But it's not an MI-8 copy? Not an F-15 pilot I see.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:02
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hobbesmaster posted:Not an F-15 pilot I see. 
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Apr 1, 2018 19:05
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SimonCat posted:You get this pissed when people say "Kraut?" Calling Germans Krauts unless reading a historical document verbatim is pretty loving bad. Same with Nips, Japs, Zipperheads, Slopes, and Huns. Not things I'd use to refer to Germans or Japanese today!
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Apr 1, 2018 19:07
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mlmp08 posted:Calling Germans Krauts unless reading a historical document verbatim is pretty loving bad. Same with Nips, Japs, Zipperheads, Slopes, and Huns. Not things I'd use to refer to Germans or Japanese today! Was it this thread were someone used "white supremacist" as a term for "American"?
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Apr 1, 2018 19:11
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I can't fathom why I or anyone else would unironically use Kraut in this day and age, as a comparison it doesn't really work. I can imagine the term being "okay" in some historical context like a video game, novel, movie, or roleplaying a tabletop war game thing; but referring to actual people? What.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:17
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MrYenko posted:Or can we not criticize the politics of communist countries in the Cold War thread anymore? I'm not sure 'the Cold War thread' and 'the modern day McCartheyite thread' are synonymous, you know, which is what you seem to be implying. Criticising modern capitalist countries' politics would be equally off topic.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:20
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Raenir Salazar posted:I can't fathom why I or anyone else would unironically use Kraut in this day and age, as a comparison it doesn't really work. I can imagine the term being "okay" in some historical context like a video game, novel, movie, or roleplaying a tabletop war game thing; but referring to actual people? What. I know people who use it. My question is, do you call out every euphemism for another race you see online, or are the Communist Chinese a special case?
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Apr 1, 2018 19:21
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Was “chicom “ ever referring to a “race”? I thought t was used so you could use “Chinese” to refer to Taiwan when the mainland wasn’t recognized?
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Apr 1, 2018 19:24
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Anyway, back to the Z-20, the high frequency antenna is on the opposite side and it doesn't have the baffles over the exhaust to reduce the IR signature. The bottom is a lot blocker, they are using the old "Dairy Queen" style sliding window on the pilot's doors, and apparently Chinese helicopter blades spin counter-clockwise, not clockwise like Euro-copters.
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Apr 1, 2018 19:31
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