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I have a whole NCR civil war fallout sequel partly drafted.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:06
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The main problem with Dead Money is that it basically tries to build entirely new mechanics from scratch out of paperclips and bubblegum in a way that is absolutely not supported by the rest of the engine. The dumbest of which being the stealth mechanic that for no reason has no relation to the basegame stealth mechanic. Just being willfully difficult.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:10
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Byzantine posted:Maybe as a dlc trip, but I’m doubtful on “back to normal” being interesting enough to support a full game. Back to "civilized" and back to "normal" aren't the same thing. You could have something Dredd style, for example, where the NCR is fascist in their attempts to keep people fed and behaved amongst the radiation and mutants.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:11
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Eric the Mauve posted:It's awfully kind of Caesar to keep sending me a wagonload of loot on almost daily basis The ambush site right between Novac and the place where you're supposed to shoot the NCR bois (but you really shouldn't because there's good punchin to be had down there) has these little hills that are just right to bounce a Big Kid off and it's just loving  when you get the timing right.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:11
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:With the exception of one particular ending being pretty unsupported at release, I think they did a rather good job at catering for all the endstates without having to make really major changes to the game. It's a rather reactive game that doesn't run into Mass Effect 3's problem of palette swaps, even though I think Mass Effect 3 overall did some great things with reactivity. Yes, the ending itself isn't very different depending on your choices, but the experience of getting there is, even if largely only in flavor. Which is fine, there's no need why the story of two people aligned with two different factions couldn't be structurally similar, the distinguishing tone is more important
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Oct 20, 2020 20:19
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Eric the Mauve posted:It's awfully kind of Caesar to keep sending me a wagonload of loot on almost daily basis It's especially fun to fast travel to a known raider spawning point and watch the fun before killing the winners.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:20
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rydiafan posted:Back to "civilized" and back to "normal" aren't the same thing. Yeah, this. I don't mean the NCR is literally pre-war America, just that people have certain comforts and their needs are mostly met and people can just go for a walk in their neighborhood without worry if they want to. "Normal" could mean a lot of things. They could be using the Regulators as an ICE like deportation force that targets whoever the NCR deems unsuitable (ghouls and super mutants most likely). The Brahmin barons are said to be a big problem and source of corruption, how does that play into the NCR imperial core? There's a million different things you could do.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:21
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We already got one explicitly fascist Fallout game (and another fash-fantasy Obsidian game after that, to boot), it was an interesting curio but I don't really want any more. If there's another eternal aspect to Fallout, it's the Yojimbo plot structure. Most of the original Van Buren plot ideas got rolled up into FNV and its DLC, but you could still have an unstable NCR at the core of it. Or the NCR could expand into new territories, whatever. But it would certainly be timely to revisit the ways neoliberal civic society can fall apart! We might not even have an actual irl American republic by the time it would come out.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:27
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Upmarket Mango posted:The post-post apocalypse part is one of my favorite aspects of New Vegas and I want to see it pushed even further. Isn't the NCR core region supposed to be back to a pre-war standard of life? I want to see power lines, and plumbing, industrialized manufacturing, regular TV programming, school buses, mail delivery, etc etc. If we ever get another West Coast Fallout, I hope we get something set in a "modern" Vault City or Boneyard or Shady Sands. The trouble with the "Pre War standard of living" is that it is still a rough, rough existence when you consider how prewar America was actually like. It was a propaganda riddled police state facing severe hunger and resource shortages, it was locked into endless hellwars and corrupt plutocrats and organized crime were rampant. T-45 and T-50 suits were made to fight the Chinese, the T-60 was just a refurbished T-45 suit intended to fight internal rebellions. The NCR home states dont sound much better. Vault City is still isolationist, New Reno is NCR in name only, and private industry like the Gun Runners or Crimson Caravan have as much pull as politicians and Brahmin Barons. Not to mention how the roads are still lousy with raiders because the NCR military is focused in Nevada and the money pit that is Vegas is drying up their contract money to properly equip a standing army. Mass starvation was being projected in the next few decades by OSI and the sharecropper initiative in Vegas can easily go bust. It would be like the city of New Vegas on an industrial scale: beautiful and immense on first impressions, but a bureaucratic nightmare once you peel away the top layer.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:34
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Eric the Mauve posted:It's awfully kind of Caesar to keep sending me a wagonload of loot on almost daily basis
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Oct 20, 2020 20:42
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, the ending itself isn't very different depending on your choices, but the experience of getting there is, even if largely only in flavor. Which is fine, there's no need why the story of two people aligned with two different factions couldn't be structurally similar, the distinguishing tone is more important I meant that choosing to be Woedica's favored wasn't really mentioned/supported at release, although I think patch 5.0 made it a bit better. I think the ending slides are pretty well-done, even if they're arguably the "easy" way to do ending reactivity (but I also find them more satisfying than seeing minor flavor differences in post-game, Fallout 4-style, which probably requires just as much work). That said, I do think that at this point, it's better not to attempt to set up any kind of reactivity between games and focus on making a single game as reactive as possible, at least for the Fallout series. These aren't really a long arc involving a single character and tend to focus more on different regions, and it's easier from a writing perspective to have a single starting situation to deal with.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:43
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Yeah, and I think all that would be really cool to explore. It certainly sounds like a powderkeg ready to blow at any moment. Hell, throw a plague into the mix too and I almost wouldn't be able to tell if you're talking about NCR or America 2020. You could back the NCR, the Barons, the Merchants, or some people's movement as factions.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:48
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The little "false" ending you get at the start of Deadfire if you say you don't want to help was cute. It reminded me of rope kid mentioning an idea they'd kicked around for New Vegas to let you leave the Mojave via the Outpost which would just end the game
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Oct 20, 2020 20:51
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(One of) the original designs for Van Buren had the villain using a sterilizing plague to unlock (naturally) plague control nukes. That character ended up kind of getting rolled into Father Elijah.
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Oct 20, 2020 20:53
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I love Dead Money but I can never forgive the decision to have a button that drops previously invisible grenades when you press it
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Oct 20, 2020 20:55
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SlothfulCobra posted:The dumbest of which being the stealth mechanic that for no reason has no relation to the basegame stealth mechanic. Just being willfully difficult. Dean: "Don't draw the attention of the ghost people. It's much better to sneak past them." *immediately opens fire on the first ghost person he sees*
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Oct 20, 2020 21:19
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I think he's referring to the security holograms which only use line of sight detection regardless of your stealth skill.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:27
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I like Dean's spray and pray attitude. I usually clear Salida Del Sol and Piedra Del Sol with him before actually coming back with the right people.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:30
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Arcsquad12 posted:I think he's referring to the security holograms which only use line of sight detection regardless of your stealth skill. No, there's a part soon after you join up with him where it's clearly intended as an introduction to the ghost people; you enter a new area, see one off in the distance, he says that line and then his AI wigs out and he charges in.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:37
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All of the FNV DLCs use pretty drastically reworked stealth mechanics to the base game. I don't mind how much harder it makes stealthy gameplay (though given how slowly you have to play to stealth properly in the DLCs, it certainly makes guns-blazing look more attractive) but I hate how jarring it feels to go from the absurdly easy stealth of the base game to the DLCs where things will spot you from 50m off while you are crouched.
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Oct 20, 2020 21:38
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Basic Chunnel posted:(One of) the original designs for Van Buren had the villain using a sterilizing plague to unlock (naturally) plague control nukes. That character ended up kind of getting rolled into Father Elijah. Since we're mentioning van Buren can I just add that I find its version of Joshua Graham very interesting: quote:Overview
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Oct 20, 2020 21:39
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aniviron posted:All of the FNV DLCs use pretty drastically reworked stealth mechanics to the base game. I don't mind how much harder it makes stealthy gameplay (though given how slowly you have to play to stealth properly in the DLCs, it certainly makes guns-blazing look more attractive) but I hate how jarring it feels to go from the absurdly easy stealth of the base game to the DLCs where things will spot you from 50m off while you are crouched. For the Ghost People at least this is just a fuckup. They were meant to have the lowest possible perception to make them easy to sneak past, but the engine only recognises scores of 1 or above and interpreted the 0 perception they gave the Ghost People as maximum perception
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Oct 20, 2020 22:05
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not sure about actually doing a whole game in the NCR, as its about as safe a place you can be relative to the rest of the wasteland. maybe focusing just on one of the states like boneyard or hub/reno and you could do organized crime/political fracturing or something buuuuut honestly we kind of already know a lot about the ncr and beyond seeing what it actually looks like in 2287+ (Which would be cool!) i think id rather just keep filling in unknowns like baja california would be nice, keeping on the frontier theme of FNV but removed from the Legion/NCR conflict but still touching on manifest destiny, westerns etc. also we still know only so little about mexico in the setting except for some comments from raul to bridge both worlds could see a prologue/tutorial that starts you off in a slice of NCR proper before being deployed south to baja to encounter the real wasteland or something
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Oct 20, 2020 23:35
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aniviron posted:All of the FNV DLCs use pretty drastically reworked stealth mechanics to the base game. I don't mind how much harder it makes stealthy gameplay (though given how slowly you have to play to stealth properly in the DLCs, it certainly makes guns-blazing look more attractive) but I hate how jarring it feels to go from the absurdly easy stealth of the base game to the DLCs where things will spot you from 50m off while you are crouched.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:05
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One thing I forgot to mention about Dead Money is that there's a general unsquashed bug in FNV regarding over-time effects and save/load functions. Save in rolling slots, at least, because I've run into an issue where I'd trigger a quicksave just before emerging from a concentrated cloud and the accelerated DoT effect became permanent on reload.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:14
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Basic Chunnel posted:One thing I forgot to mention about Dead Money is that there's a general unsquashed bug in FNV regarding over-time effects and save/load functions. Save in rolling slots, at least, because I've run into an issue where I'd trigger a quicksave just before emerging from a concentrated cloud and the accelerated DoT effect became permanent on reload. This happened to me when I played NV on console back in 2915. It's why I hated the DLC, that and the dumb bomb gimmick. Story and atmosphere wise it ruled but teh gameplay was just awful.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:20
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2house2fly posted:For the Ghost People at least this is just a fuckup. They were meant to have the lowest possible perception to make them easy to sneak past, but the engine only recognises scores of 1 or above and interpreted the 0 perception they gave the Ghost People as maximum perception Ah, the Gandhi Paradigm.
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Oct 21, 2020 00:51
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https://twitter.com/rotarydials/status/1318431316933808128?s=19
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Oct 21, 2020 00:55
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I literally never had any problems with Dead Money and it blew me away to see the internet complaining about gas, radios and having their equipment stripped away. I liked it all! I liked it even better with GRA and mad bomber too
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Oct 21, 2020 01:03
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Byzantine posted:Maybe as a dlc trip, but I’m doubtful on “back to normal” being interesting enough to support a full game. Do a back and forth, two time period game where you see it in its wasteland state and another character, years later, interacts with it post-rebuilding. It’d also let you see how your choices change things beyond just an ending slide.
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Oct 21, 2020 02:56
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Do a back and forth, two time period game where you see it in its wasteland state and another character, years later, interacts with it post-rebuilding. It’d also let you see how your choices change things beyond just an ending slide. Fallout Trigger?
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Oct 21, 2020 04:59
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New Vegas Age 2, more like
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Oct 21, 2020 05:22
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I think you could definitely make a good and interesting game set in the NCR, though I don't know if it would make for a good Fallout game (Or at least, not as a mainline title). The Fallout games are all about open-world exploration, scavenging, and dealing with varied post-apocalyptic factions, and while these would all be present in a game set entirely in the NCR, it'd be hard to make them a focus without creating a more structured/linear experience.
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Oct 21, 2020 05:41
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i think you could definitely tell a story set in the core NCR but im not sure itd work as a 3D fallout game outside kind of a spin off with a very different gameplay structure mostly id just like to learn more about the west coast than just revisiting california really there's oregon, seattle, what happened to AZ/NM/UT/CO with the legion and me presuming one way or the other caesar failed/legion collapsed as being the canon outcome whole other ways to go with continuing stories on the west coast edit: other thing is NCR is kind of great to have in the background cause you can kind of imagine in your own way how well thats going being a post-post-apoc society but if we ever got a game that just showed it probably wouldnt live up to it Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 06:21
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Berke Negri posted:i think you could definitely tell a story set in the core NCR but im not sure itd work as a 3D fallout game outside kind of a spin off with a very different gameplay structure Back when I first played NV i didn't get the NCR's hype from folks online. I still don't. I ran into so many people who are like "it really doesn't matter who you side with because even if you go Legion, the NCR will just fly in their scores of tanks manned by thousands of people in power armor and crush everything. The NCR is a fully functioning nation with a modern military, nothing can compare." The Mojave is the NCR's last hope to avoid mass starvation in a decade and also is a political football their president's entire reputation hinges upon. But they send chumps with a few months in boot camp and Service Rifles? And when the poo poo really hits the fan they send in troops with non-powered power armor. Oliver's guards at Hoover Dam were just Heavy Troopers, folks with scavenged Brotherhood armor. But their unstoppable army really exists, apparently. They're just not deploying it in this doe or die situation because.....no real explanation I can find. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 06:33
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You do kinda need a broken world for the standard RPG murderhobo lifestyle to work. Maybe it'd be nice to have a setting where there's not as much detritus lying around everywhere because in the centuries since the bombs fell somebody picked it up. Or maybe if it's not in a desert, there should be more living greenery swallowing up ruins like in Horizon Zero Dawn. My favorite post-post-apocalyptic setting is Nausicaa, although it kinda found its way towards a new apocalypse that it's on the edge of.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:40
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Because 2010 gamebryo wheezes and dies when you put too many actors in a cell.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:41
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It's less to do with the NCR's actual might and more to do with their potential. The Van Graffs sum it up at the end of Birds of a Feather. The Van Graffs can field a small army. The NCR can field a very large army, so it makes more sense to work with them and skim whatever cash and power you can before the game falls apart. Fighting them is a losing battle because they have the resources to wage a war of attrition with sheer bodies. The army sustains up to a thousand casualties annually according to Hanlon, meaning we can assume nearly four thousand troopers have died in the Mojave campaign since the first battle at the Dam. In post apocalyptic terms, that is an insanely high casualty rate but the NCR has been able to keep it up without slowing the number of troops pouring into the area. The NCR's longterm sustainability is dependent on how the Vegas campaign turns out, but they can limp on in the face of a defeat while an opponent like Caesar will have their movement die with its Emperor. There is no future to the Legion. The NCR can shamble on as a dying husk, at least.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:44
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The NCR has vastly superior logistics to most of the groups it comes into contact with, and has a habit of expanding by allying with local groups against others until it's conquered its ally's enemies and absorbs its old ally. Because the NCR is more Rome than Caesar's Legion is.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:58
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Discendo Vox posted:I have a whole NCR civil war fallout sequel partly drafted. NCR was going to, in true fashion, try to push their luck expanding across the dam, starting up the railroads to go around Vegas and still provide a means of exploiting the land. The Legion for their part would fracture after Lanius is assassinated in his tent shortly after the retreat, with a few “imperial cults” springing up as subfactions. Cultus Lanius retreats to Legion territory to find a new Caesar, Cultus Incata linger as raiders / partisans. I actually got some feedback from rope kid and Avellone, not on what I was doing but what their plans for Van Buren were (they didn’t remember much), a few years before New Vegas was announced. The design documents that are out there tend to conflict, not only with each other but with themselves, since the texts were compiled across a few iterations of the game and its story.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:59
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