|
the only one of the rebuilds that's mostly just offering a remake of the original is 1.0 2.0 follows the general plot of the original series but even in its most similar scenes the details & characterisation substantially differ, it's deliberately in conversation with the original & not just remaking it
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 04:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 10:47 |
|
|
lih posted:the only one of the rebuilds that's mostly just offering a remake of the original is 1.0
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 04:50
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:On a rewatch, the most winking at the audience moment is seeing Shinji’s tape tracks go from alternating between 25-26 to 27. Like, “ohhhhh, I see you, movie, I get it.” Right when Mari arrives, too. It's a pretty clear announcement that she's the point where things stop going like they 'should'.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 05:02
|
|
|
Dessel posted:Evangelion having been my first anime I actually cared to watch (well, devoured) in fairly impressionable age, I can't actually believe people trying to analyze whatever Anno's intentions or whatever he's hinting or whatever thematics you can draw from xyz in extremely long posts. Sure I can see the mental health depictions in the series in general. I guess I'm not enough of a megafan to give a poo poo. I guess seeing old characters having aged and Shinji being whatever young could be seen as some sort of metaphor for some of the viewers not aging or advancing in their life or some other obvious poo poo. I'm not implying people going to the deep end analyzing the series haven't done so, though. You milage may vary but I find "living in an ever-increasing hellworld where people desperately struggle to survive while the Evangelion equivalent of boomers keep loving up the world in their desperate attempts to remain relevant and what you can do to find happiness there" a lot more relevant and grounded in 2021 then the original series, no matter how fanciful it gets. Like the village scenes hit me hard because "how do we survive day to day and still feel like life is worth it and be happy with who we are in a world that is increasingly hostile and where we have no idea how much longer the stability will last" is something that actually feels like it has room to say something about our modern world in comparison to 1990s Future-Tokyo which is entirely irrelevant to the modern world. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Aug 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 05:18
|
|
|
Dessel posted:But honestly in the sea of unbelievable horseshit I'm just so mad about the bullshit flying retrofitted battleships that make absolutely no sense and Google isn't helping me. may I direct you to yamato, space battleship
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 05:42
|
|
|
The village scenes are just obviously the best parts of the movie, right? Other than maybe some of the closing stuff with Gendo and the overall resolution, maybe. Took me from "optimistic but a little uncertain about how this movie's gonna turn out" to "my sync rate with this movie is infinite" in the space of about 30 minutes. Also floating battleships are objectively rad sorry I don't make the rules Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Aug 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 05:43
|
|
|
What's wrong with the battleships? None of them actually worked in this movie, did they? They were basically just old boats they'd hauled out and were using Wunder's powers to lift around as big hunks of movable armor. I did like the Kredit ship that they refitted by putting it in a dry cradle and attaching the Mark.04s to the cradle.  I do love how even in postapocalpyptia, branding is apparently important. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Aug 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 06:01
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:You milage may vary but I find "living in an ever-increasing hellworld where people desperately struggle to survive while the Evangelion equivalent of boomers keep loving up the world in their desperate attempts to remain relevant and what you can do to find happiness there" a lot more relevant and grounded in 2021 then the original series, no matter how fanciful it gets. The part where Misato and Ritsuko are in the seed chamber really touched me. It was literally saying "the people with the levers of power have destroyed the world, but we are going to try and rebuild". Like it was practically an allegory of what we see in real life with climate change. It was an incredibly direct message and I really appreciated it. Spiritus Nox posted:The village scenes are just obviously the best parts of the movie, right? Other than maybe some of the closing stuff with Gendo and the overall resolution, maybe. Took me from "optimistic but a little uncertain about how this movie's gonna turn out" to "my sync rate with this movie is infinite" in the space of about 30 minutes. One of the best parts of the movie is when the giant face appears. It felt like that one episode of the Simpsons. I loved it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 06:05
|
|
|
i don't think anyone even comments on the face. it's just one more thing going on, not even particularly noteworthy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 06:13
|
|
|
People clinging to their pets as they come back is cute but shoutout to the guy who instrumentalises with his trumpet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 06:15
|
|
|
gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i don't think anyone even comments on the face. it's just one more thing going on, not even particularly noteworthy. I mean the pink lady goes "OH poo poo THIS IS CRAZY" for a second - though in fairness this is all happening not 5 minutes after they fought off a horde of giant robot zombies, Gendo got shot and then calmly put pieces of his brain back into his empty skull, and Asuka briefly turned into Diebuster before turning into Tang. A giant naked lady really isn't that much of an escalation any more.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 06:24
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:On a rewatch, the most winking at the audience moment is seeing Shinji’s tape tracks go from alternating between 25-26 to 27. Like, “ohhhhh, I see you, movie, I get it.” there's a lot of stuff where asuka & misato's interactions are mirrored from the original series, & also rei actually grabbing asuka's hand when she tries to slap her in the elevator scene
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 07:02
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:The village scenes are just obviously the best parts of the movie, right? Other than maybe some of the closing stuff with Gendo and the overall resolution, maybe. Took me from "optimistic but a little uncertain about how this movie's gonna turn out" to "my sync rate with this movie is infinite" in the space of about 30 minutes. Definitely. You get ten minutes of action to confirm you're in the right theater and that there's going to be robot fights, then you get an hour of people just living (and living well, for the most par) in the shadow of the apocalypse. Shinji's slowly recovering from completely breaking down, Rei's learning to be human, Asuka's relationships with others (both her relatively healthy relationship with Kensuke and her distance from anyone else, alongside her very awkward feelings on the subject of Shinji) are put in stark relief. It's not "moving the plot" in the way people expected, and it's the most low-key Eva's been, but that's part of why it's so good. And it means Shinji has room to actually stop hating himself, which is necessary for his actions in the last act to make any sense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 07:20
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:Definitely. Yeah like as *satisfying* as the confrontation with Shinji and Gendo was, like, aside from some of the aesthetic flourishes with the Evas in person-sized locations and the nods to Eva's Toku heritage - and to be clear I *loved* those aesthetic flourishes - ....it basically went how most of us always figured a confrontation between a Mostly Self-Actualized And Healthy Shinji and Gendo would go, right? There was nothing just wildly surprising there, and while it's deeply satisfying that satisfaction only feels earned because of the immense amount of skillful work the movie put into that first act.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 07:25
|
|
|
JazzFlight posted:On a rewatch, the most winking at the audience moment is seeing Shinji’s tape tracks go from alternating between 25-26 to 27. Like, “ohhhhh, I see you, movie, I get it.” There’s a moment like that in 3.0+1.0 too. Near the end of the movie the tape jumps to track 28, and then to track 29 during the final conversation with Gendo. Basically just a big giant “this is all coming to a definitive end now” sign post for people who’ve been on this ride since the anime started.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 10:32
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure the descending action sequence is just a series of references to old shows? I recognised Battleship Yamato, Gurren Lagan and possibly the original Gundam (at least one of the scenes felt reminiscent of a white base fight, although it may have been another series I'm not familiar with).
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 11:51
|
|
|
Speaking as someone with a vague knowledge of other media, I thought 3+1 was slow, but good overall, and i think fit better with where they were going. Though I kinda found the opening action sequence to be superfluous, the village stuff where the movie slows down to let Shinji and Rei work things out is good. Being in the Right State of Mind is the true superpower in Eva, and it not leading to Mari being the ultimate hero shows Mari's superfluousness in the narrative. I guess my main critique of it is that I had read Shinji as gay but kind of ashamed of it and i didn't feel like Mari was justified. Honestly, I think it would've fit better with the themes if he'd just been happy on his own at the train station.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 13:26
|
|
|
There's not much ruling out Shinji being Demi/Pan/Bi-sexual. I think that's why Kaworu is so impactful, as he adds a layer if 'wtf am I dealing with?!?' to Shinji's narrative. plus Shinji being a Happy Guy is the TV 26 ending already.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 14:25
|
|
|
mari to me seems to be about anno saying that when it comes to opening yourself to other people, some of it is interacting on their terms. one of the joys of meeting new people is letting them influence you, and influencing them in turn. shinji never would have reacted the way he did to mari at the end to anyone else, and it's possible that he's only that playful with her, but the point is that he IS that playful with her. he's spent time around her, accepts her playfulness and reciprocates it. he's show not telling that shinji is capable of understanding others, adapting, and changing, and that it's not scary to do. going outside and meeting new people and having fun with them and growing and changing isn't scary!!! refusing to change or looking down on people that do as people that have somehow compromised who they are in order to "fit in" is some bullshit Rorschach stuff!!!!!
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:I guess my main critique of it is that I had read Shinji as gay but kind of ashamed of it and i didn't feel like Mari was justified. Honestly, I think it would've fit better with the themes if he'd just been happy on his own at the train station. i read mari's character as a happy trans shinji angel so the train station scene could be acceptance of a new personality and form. Evas are gone so humanity is no longer using its technology for fighting, angels "win" this time and can continue living symbiotically on earth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
Irony Be My Shield posted:I'm pretty sure the descending action sequence is just a series of references to old shows? I recognised Battleship Yamato, Gurren Lagan and possibly the original Gundam (at least one of the scenes felt reminiscent of a white base fight, although it may have been another series I'm not familiar with). Totally, especially with the 70s-style anime music during the last battleship fight. But, Misato has always just been just pretending to be the competent Bright Noa-style commander, while being woefully unprepared for all it entails. I loved seeing her mature by them making her literally Bright Noa, with no caveats. Right down to rejecting her son for the cause.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 15:47
|
|
|
Dessel posted:Evangelion having been my first anime I actually cared to watch (well, devoured) in fairly impressionable age, I can't actually believe people trying to analyze whatever Anno's intentions or whatever he's hinting or whatever thematics you can draw from xyz in extremely long posts. you`d better believe it op
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 15:48
|
|
|
nightbae smokewheat posted:you`d better believe it op Right? Like, where was he the last 20 years?! Eva inspires, just, the biggest posts. I just made a big assed post about the significance of headlessness during Gendo's Impacts; and wondered if I expounded enough. That's just how the Eva fans roll. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
Dessel posted:Evangelion having been my first anime I actually cared to watch (well, devoured) in fairly impressionable age, I can't actually believe people trying to analyze whatever Anno's intentions or whatever he's hinting or whatever thematics you can draw from xyz in extremely long posts. Sure I can see the mental health depictions in the series in general. I guess I'm not enough of a megafan to give a poo poo. I guess seeing old characters having aged and Shinji being whatever young could be seen as some sort of metaphor for some of the viewers not aging or advancing in their life or some other obvious poo poo. I'm not implying people going to the deep end analyzing the series haven't done so, though. lol, I can't understand the meaning of this post. its fine to not like it, but why actively poo poo on other people analyzing it and enjoying it? like you dont get it, cool, but if you're too cool to care why even make this post? like it or not eva is one of the most discussed and analyzed and popular anime of the last 30 years, there must be something worthwhile in it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 16:28
|
|
|
Dessel posted:Evangelion having been my first anime I actually cared to watch (well, devoured) in fairly impressionable age, I can't actually believe people trying to analyze whatever Anno's intentions or whatever he's hinting or whatever thematics you can draw from xyz in extremely long posts. Sure I can see the mental health depictions in the series in general. I guess I'm not enough of a megafan to give a poo poo. I guess seeing old characters having aged and Shinji being whatever young could be seen as some sort of metaphor for some of the viewers not aging or advancing in their life or some other obvious poo poo. I'm not implying people going to the deep end analyzing the series haven't done so, though. 4.0 spoonfeeds the baby viewer all of its themes and messages between symbolism rendered literal and characters saying out loud what they're thinking/doing/what something means and leaves nothing to interpretation, it's not the puzzling brainbuster you think it is. most of the posts in the thread are people just saying what the movie meant to them, there's virtually no debate about what the movie is "about" or what happened or what anything in it means 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 16:39
|
|
|
Dessel posted:I'm just hopeful there are no future films I need to care about. Who's forcing you to care in the first place? I'm big on Eva, collect silly Eva bullshit, it had a big impact on me growing up but I don't really care about the Rebuilds and don't really have an interest in watching this new one. It's okay to not care about certain things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
Archer666 posted:a big impact several actually 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 17:19
|
|
|
Man....looking through the internet reactions, people really dislike the choices made regarding Shinji's romantic choices. I get it. And maybe its because I'm a mid-30s, but if you were rooting for toxic not-an-actual-friend (Toji's attitude to her in the whole franchise sums it up, because he's well-adjusted) or the drat sister mom/mother sister  you may have handled things just as bad as Shinji in his position.Being older, I can say none of my crew from when I was a teen was the one to bring to the altar as an adult. And that's cool. We're still buddies through our shared experiences all the same. That said, I was rooting for Rei since 2001.  Edit: I like to think Mari was the unpaid teenage intern/guinea pig who tested the LCL breathing functions, wasn't told the risk of the Curse, and decided NERV was super sketchy when she received zero support after she realized she stopped aging (because gently caress interns, right?) and bolted. It explains why she's old enough to have been in Fuyutsuki's school clique, but why she's stuck being a few years older than The Children. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Aug 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
Was an OK ending. As someone not sold on the rebuilds being strictly necessary post-EoE it was entertaining and at least capped off the franchise. I didn't really get the need for Mari and kinda felt the Big Tiddy Guf Girlfriend dialogue detracted from the fact Shinji is meant to have grown up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 08:26
|
|
|
Dishwasher posted:
I totally agree. This is a great take. I like Mari, I like the idea of someone from the older generation having the same issues as the "kids", brings a different perspective. StarkingBarfish posted:I didn't really get the need for Mari and kinda felt the Big Tiddy Guf Girlfriend dialogue detracted from the fact Shinji is meant to have grown up. I initially agreed with this. Especially her comments. But I thought about it a little bit and tried to put myself in his circumstances. They heavy-handed it a little bit, because it's hard to get across, but it makes sense. They also show this with Asuka when she is naked and is like "Why aren't you getting all flustered!" Kids get all weird and awkward if they see someone with their shirt off or with a bra on or whatever. Even if that someone is just a friend. Adults tend to be a little more, I guess mature, for lack of a better term. At 14 if a female friend covered my eyes, I would get nervous and awkward, because hormones and all that stuff. But in my 20s or older, if one of my female friends rolled up like that, I'd definitely make a comment like "oh it's big-titty-Mari! How you been!" or whatever. (If that makes sense. Friends make self-deprecating jokes and things like that, and joking about tits with your friend isn't so awkward as an adult, especially considering she refers to herself that way prior. It shows that he sort of caught up to her I guess. I agree it wasn't needed, but I think it might have helped people who overlooked some of the other growth. I'm sorry for all the spoiler tags. I just know we all waited so long so I didn't want to spoil the ending for anyone! metavisual fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Aug 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 14:19
|
|
|
StarkingBarfish posted:Was an OK ending. As someone not sold on the rebuilds being strictly necessary post-EoE it was entertaining and at least capped off the franchise. I didn't really get the need for Mari and kinda felt the Big Tiddy Guf Girlfriend dialogue detracted from the fact Shinji is meant to have grown up. Mari had potential as a new character but instead of being a developed member of the cast she was used in three ways: to be in action scenes, to provide more eye candy, and to say flirty things to people way mentally younger than her. Absolutely awful waste of a character that could have added something of substance to these new movies. If she was meant to somehow be a stand in for Anno's wife, I feel bad for his wife for her avatar getting such shallow characterization.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
asuka: i had a crush on you way back when, but now i am twice your age and i don't have a thing for teenage boys. mari: i am at least three times your age and gently caress yeah, teenage boys!
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 16:02
|
|
|
He's just repeating how she described herself earlier.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 16:38
|
|
|
MonsieurChoc posted:He's just repeating how she described herself earlier. Yes, but that's part of the dialogue I didn't think worked. If she is introduced as a means to give shinji's arc some kind of closure as an adult she seems off because she's catering to a kind of emotional immaturity. If that wasn't her purpose in the cast, as a standalone character she didn't feel like she was particularly well enough fleshed out otherwise. She doesn't really have an arc herself. At the end Rei obtains independence of thought, asuka learns she doesn't depend on the approval of others, shinji grows up, but mari... Didn't really have a need for some kind of closure as she is written. She's perfectly happy piloting eva and seems more like an add on to telegraph shinjis growth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:09
|
|
|
in the latter half of the film, mari was constantly doing stuff and i have only a vague idea of what and why.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:13
|
|
|
This may just be how I saw it but the end of the movie makes clear to me that Shinji isn't a teen anymore. I think the idea of Mari works as a character that gets Shinji to understand that the view of himself as an angsty teen in his head is one that he needs to move on from by coming to terms with the conflicts of his youth. The EVAs making the pilots stop aging is a clear metaphor to me about how we all face that time where we realize that we aren't kids anymore even as we still see ourselves as such. Some of us have things that keep us from moving past that into adulthood, for any number of reasons. The ending to me read as Shinji accepting that he's gotten through his adolescent phase and that he has to get rid of the protective shells put around you to understand the things that don't make sense as a kid. Some people, Mari in this case, don't change all that much while others, like Shinji, are able to come to terms with that growth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:20
|
|
|
So I binged all the movies (first time viewing) over a few days last week and settled on my feelings on them. CIA document following. I liked them overall, each having something I really liked and something I didn't like. For me, the best of the bunch was 2.0. I haven't seen the series in forever so the "breakneck recap" nature of the first two wasn't off-putting for me but 2.0 had better pacing and flowed better compared to 1.0 where it felt like it was just jump-cutting to important character beats. With 3.0 and 4.0 I was initially enthusiastic about the 14 years later stuff but after 4.0 and thinking on it, I landed on "I didn't care for it" territory. To me, it is a super underutilized plot beat that serves no real purpose. For 3.0 it's mostly a very good focus on Kaowru's and Shinji's relationship but it doesn't add much except provide us with some neat landscape visuals and 4.0 it's just window dressing. The wholesome commune stuff was great but when Toji start talking about the days after the near-third impact, I realized that a far better and appropriate setting was passed by. I get the meta-commentary on everyone else growing up and the pilots staying the same age (can't change the main merch money makers too much) but I feel like it was something clever at the expense of something that would have worked better. Shinji's seemingly rapid growth at the end didn't quite land for me because we really don't get any insight on how he got there. Most of 4.0 is him clammed up and we aren't shown him working through his emotions. People trying to help him only works so much, we don't see him process that help to help himself. In my opinion, had the "14 years later" been "2 or 3 years later" we would have had a far better effect. The more interesting setting would have been there and all of Shinji's friends would still be recognizable to us and him except Shinji would see his slightly older friends having to "grow up really fast" as Toji put it and when faced with these apocalyptic challenges, they didn't run from them or be indecisive like Shinji was. I think seeing this would have made his sudden growth at the end of 4.0 feel more natural. Instead of seeing adults who have that lived experience, he'd see his teen friends stepping up to face those challenges. Likewise, Asuka should have aged. Everyone not Shinji should have aged. It would have been a better representation of everyone growing up and facing things compared to Shinji, who remain stunted. I dunno. Just my thought on that whole aspect. I'm no director or writer and maybe all that would just have made the films super trash. Either way, I really enjoyed the conclusion. Misato got done dirty by 3.0 and 4.0 something fierce. The new crew members are a bunch of nothings and not worth sacrificing a major, beloved character for. I completely forgot about the gross lingering shots, so I hated those and took me right out of the film when they happened. But all that said, I knew I changed when Shinji didn't bother me like he did when I was younger. i finally got him. But yeah, enough of my incoherent rambling. Movies good. Will probably rewatch the series at some point. Movies work really well as both stand-alone and sequel to the series. Likewise the series can be the only thing you ever watch and still get a complete experience. A solid B. Highly recommend for fans. Wouldn't recommend to non-fans without content warnings and pointing out the sleazy garbage.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:30
|
|
|
they didnt face things and grow up while shinji was gone though. asuka was just as toxic and wrapped up in her lashing out to cover for her self loathing, rei was still a blank slate without a sense of identity, and mari didn't need to change because she's already self actualized. part of the ending of 4, with shinji taking action and realizing his issues and working through them, is that he's able to pay it forward when he's in the infinite realm golgotha object whatever and take all the people that were there for him and help them out in return.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
An interpretation of Mari that I heard before seeing the movies is that she is an Evangelion fan. Maybe it's because this interpretation was affecting my viewing, but it really worked for me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 10:47 |
|
|
i definitely see that and agree with it, but i think it's important to note that she's an evangelion fan with a pretty healthy relationship to evangelion. she just likes the robots and wants to see them fight. she actively rejects all the mysticism about it (iscariot left them to their own devices when poo poo got too up its own rear end, after all) and doesn't seem to use them for working out her trauma or anything more than what they really are: big cool robots that you can animate some whipass fights with
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 17:58
|
|