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By temperament I really want to be a universalist, although I am not. I still don't know what to make of people who follow other faiths - it's not a matter of simply having completely correct doctrine or theology, because I don't think anyone does have, including myself. I think we're all trying to worship the same God, even if all of us have a more or less distorted idea of who he is and what he's like. But I also think it does matter what we believe, and I will not say that all religions are true or equally good/valid paths to God. I do think small-T truths can be found anywhere and I can absolutely learn some things from my Muslim brothers. Division and hatred are tools Satan uses against us all.
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Sep 10, 2021 04:44
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I am a universalist in some ways, I think. One of many ways in which I am a very heretical Catholic! I think God comes in many ways to people because people are so different. I think the only religious 'belief system' I've ever looked into and thought 'well that's just flat out incorrect top to bottom' is prosperity gospel.
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Sep 10, 2021 11:12
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I don't think I would say God comes in many ways; but I do think he meets people where they are, and he speaks to everyone insofar as they will listen. God wants to be a universalist too - that's plainly stated in the Bible. But I think there's a difference between seeking God in varying degrees of ignorance (which necessarily describes all seekers), and rejecting him.
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Sep 10, 2021 12:39
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I will also say it's possible to reject God while ostensibly believing (the Bible is also clear on that), and possible to be seeking God unknowingly even as an atheist. It's far better to know more clearly and believe, and I wrestle with this question a lot, but I don't think it's as clear cut as many want to make it.
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Sep 10, 2021 13:04
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Personally, I take the view that God is above all else a being of love, compassion, and mercy. Seek to be like Him in those respects, and don't sweat the distinctions about how any given person worships or believes as long as they don't use religion as a justification for hatred. I may not personally be comfortable with Catholic beliefs, or Orthodox, or pretty much anything outside the Protestant sphere (and the Evangelical side of things in particular), but to me you have to find a system of belief and worship that works for you. I think God understands our efforts to seek and understand Him, and that it's our human nature to be divided by a common cause. We're fractious, argumentative, schismatic little monkeys, and God knows that because He made us that way. Why He chose to make us that way, I leave as an exercise for the reader.  https://i.imgur.com/xctOqgG.mp4
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Sep 10, 2021 13:14
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Lord knows I needed Him in my life. My wife started finding Him last year, but I was too mired in a porn addiction to really be with her on that journey. Hard to talk about, but now that discovery has happened again, I'm trying to not white-knuckle it for a change, and I'm trying to study the Bible and highlight and make note of verses that stick with me, and to journal. Just...not trying to white-knuckle it anymore, it doesn't work. Proverbs 4-7 really uh...I felt personally targeted reading those last night. Chastised quite severely, as if Solomon was sitting in front of me wagging his finger. But instead of shame, I feel thankful to be loved by a God that cares.
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Sep 10, 2021 15:04
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D34THROW posted:I'm trying to not white-knuckle it for a change Was this a euphemism?
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Sep 13, 2021 15:15
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D34THROW posted:Lord knows I needed Him in my life. My wife started finding Him last year, but I was too mired in a porn addiction to really be with her on that journey. Hard to talk about, but now that discovery has happened again, I'm trying to not white-knuckle it for a change, and I'm trying to study the Bible and highlight and make note of verses that stick with me, and to journal. Just...not trying to white-knuckle it anymore, it doesn't work. I feel you. I've been struggling myself. Womanizing, drinking. The pandemic has been hard and lonely but these setbacks allow us to grow.
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Sep 13, 2021 15:33
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Was this a euphemism? No, it was not I needed that smile today, thank you. No, in the past I've tried to go it essentially alone, but I'm finding that I'm having a much easier go of it leaning on my wife, a small group of guys I found on r/pornfree, and God. Things that would normally send me into a spiral, I'm just putting on some music or listening to something inspirational and it's helping.Speaking of music, concert confirmed, we're seeing Casting Crowns and Matthew West in Estero on the 22nd of next month!  "Even When You're Running" always makes me think of my past...sixteen years of my life spent battling porn, turning my face from God, and He was right there when I was ready. Jupiter Jazz posted:I feel you. I've been struggling myself. Womanizing, drinking. The pandemic has been hard and lonely but these setbacks allow us to grow. Feel free to reach out if you need a friend. Helping people helps me too. I've always been that way...just denied myself. D34THROW fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 15:46
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D34THROW posted:"Even When You're Running" always makes me think of my past...sixteen years of my life spent battling porn, turning my face from God, and He was right there when I was ready. Frankly, no offense, but I think I'll keep it to myself and God. Whenever I articulate myself to goons they get offended. I appreciate the offer. Better to keep what I think on the inside when communicating with goons.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:07
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It's a tough addiction to fight but God and His Graces can free you. I had it pretty bad prior to getting married but my then-fiance (now wife) and a very Holy Priest helped me break it. There's still struggles sometimes (Another Priest once referred to it as "Satan likes to jingle old locks to see if they'll open"), and in my experience as I work on my sins I uncover more imperfections or flaws that have to be worked on, but it's just another step on the narrow road to Heaven. A good piece of advice I got from another Priest was to watch out for HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired), because your will is much lower at those times and temptation feels stronger. It's kinda corny but I find that it's true. I'm probably rambling as usual, but I'll pray for you. Jupiter Jazz posted:
Most goons are weirdos. The goons in this thread tend to be less weird though.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:53
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No, speaking for myself, I'm still a weirdo. Just a different kind of weirdo than the stereotypical goon.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:26
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:
Absolutely loving not, are you kidding me?
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Sep 13, 2021 19:51
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We're a different gradiation of weird. (Potentially informed in large part by our religious beliefs!)
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Sep 13, 2021 19:57
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Personally, I see myself as just having a different flavor of weird to the goon norm in some respects. Why should religion be considered any less odd than 'no gods, no masters!' as is so common in online circles? https://i.imgur.com/Nx4wxmM.mp4
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Sep 13, 2021 20:03
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In our culture, thinking porn is bad is weird at best.
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Sep 13, 2021 22:58
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And it upsets the unholy hell out of me. The more I've learned about the industry, the more vehemently anti porn I've. Some porn star and her husband opened up a church in CA recently and it got mentioned in a local AM radio show I occasionally text into. A church "for sinners, by sinners". Oh really? Like the whole concept of Christendom? 
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Sep 14, 2021 00:42
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Yeah, I quit porn over five years ago, right before I became Orthodox. Partly I got sick of having this aspect of my life that felt out of my control; sick of the assumptions and ideology baked into it, and never being quite sure how ethical any of it was, or could ever be; and the feeling that it was holding me back in various respects. One thing that helped me was keeping the right mindset: focusing on what I had to gain from quitting. This is also what helped me get my mind around fasting. It's not necessarily a limitation, it's an opportunity. The other thing was treating it as a distraction, and using prayer to redirect my attention when I'm tempted. In particular, this prayer, from the Ancient Faith Prayer Book: "O Lord Jesus Christ, Sovereign Master, help me and do not let me sin against you. Incline not my heart to words and thoughts of evil, but deliver me from all temptation." Followed by three Jesus Prayers ("Lord Jesus Christ, Son if God, have mercy on me, a sinner")
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Sep 14, 2021 01:10
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Captain von Trapp posted:In our culture, thinking porn is bad is weird at best. I think that women should dress more modestly and find the way many women dress demeans them. They decry constant sexualization of women in media and advertising while walking around yoga pants and booty shorts. I give all sorts of people throughout all walks of life respect but I respect a woman that dresses in a simple skirt (not too short, not so tight it shows the shape of her butt) that much more. So many women resort to dressing for male attention and are mad when they received it. That's considered weird and I'm accused of being sexist and "problematic" especially by people that lean left (or goons). I'm pretty positive the rest of this thread will judge me, as have others, for posting this. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 02:46
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Jupiter Jazz posted:I think that women should dress more modestly and find the way many women dress demeans them. They decry constant sexualization of women in media and advertising while walking around yoga pants and booty shorts. I give all sorts of people throughout all walks of life respect but I respect a woman that dresses in a simple skirt (not too short, not so tight it shows the shape of her butt) that much more. So many women resort to dressing for male attention and are mad when they received it. Who is 'they'? The women complaining aren't necessarily the same people as the women wearing booty shorts.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:02
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TOOT BOOT posted:Who is 'they'? The women complaining aren't necessarily the same people as the women wearing booty shorts. You'd be surprised.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:07
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My priest has talked about how some teenage girls in our congregation get made fun of by their friends for dressing more modestly, even if only on Sundays. One thing that's become clear to me about modesty is, it's not necessarily about protecting the opposite sex from temptation. Men wouldn't have come up with nun fetishes if that were the case. Rather, modesty is about not showing off. Of course we're not supposed to make ourselves an object to be lusted after, but someone covered from head to toe in garish, attention-grabbing clothes is in a way just as immodest as someone who shows up to church in a Vampirella costume. Captain von Trapp posted:In our culture, thinking porn is bad is weird at best.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:15
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Ehhhhh, I'll just kinda throw out there that a lot of women can get treated pretty abhorrently while dressed in ways that wouldn't cause a stir at a Sunday prayer meeting. Dressing "modestly" (however you want to define that) isn't always protection from getting creeped on. Sexual harassment happens to people wearing literal work coveralls. I'll also add that just because someone decides to show some skin doesn't mean they deserve that kind of behavior.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:16
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You know what because we're starting to get into some weird ground, so I want to make this explicit: be careful where you tread with this. You're all welcome to have your own opinions about the over-sexualization of people (both women and men) in popular culture and media, and you're certainly more than welcome to your own beliefs about what constitutes appropriate clothing. But let me be clear that I'm not going to look kindly on out and out victim blaming or saying that people "deserve" sexual harassment or sexual assault because they dressed in a way that you deem immodest. No one deserves that.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:19
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If a person dresses a certain way, my reaction to how they dress is still on me. I was still the one in control of myself. If I commit sin in my heart in such a situation, it is my sin, not theirs. That is my objection to that line of thinking.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:20
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Cyrano4747 posted:Ehhhhh, I'll just kinda throw out there that a lot of women can get treated pretty abhorrently while dressed in ways that wouldn't cause a stir at a Sunday prayer meeting. Dressing "modestly" (however you want to define that) isn't always protection from getting creeped on. Sexual harassment happens to people wearing literal work coveralls. I don't think anyone's saying that in here.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:21
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Keromaru5 posted:My priest has talked about how some teenage girls in our congregation get made fun of by their friends for dressing more modestly, even if only on Sundays. What amazes me is that modern society has deluded many women into thinking that dressing loosely gives them freedom when it just makes them eye candy for men. I have seen women that dress modestly laughed at for lacking "fashion" and "taking womens clothes back to the 1930's." These same women decry being sexualized. Okay. Pick one. And the next fad in society? Women seeking Brazilian Butt Lifts.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:22
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Night10194 posted:If a person dresses a certain way, my reaction to how they dress is still on me. I was still the one in control of myself. If I commit sin in my heart in such a situation, it is my sin, not theirs. That is my objection to that line of thinking. The reverse is also true. If a person chooses to cover more of their body than I find "normal" due to my own cultural and religious norms, that's their right. See: the "burkini" ban in France. That's some garbage, if someone wants to cover up a bit more flesh at the beach than their neighbors do, that's their prerogative and it should be their right.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:22
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Modesty is definitely a swear word in our culture. It gets flack for being a patriarchal method of men controlling women, or of putting the responsibility for men's poor behavior on women. Worse, sometimes people do use it that way. But the point of modesty is for your outward appearance to reflect your spirit, who you really are, hopefully that's a loving, joyful, peaceful, patient (and so on) person. That should be part of the way you present yourself regardless of whether there's any of the opposite sex around, and it applies with equal importance to men as well.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:22
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Cyrano4747 posted:Ehhhhh, I'll just kinda throw out there that a lot of women can get treated pretty abhorrently while dressed in ways that wouldn't cause a stir at a Sunday prayer meeting. Dressing "modestly" (however you want to define that) isn't always protection from getting creeped on. Sexual harassment happens to people wearing literal work coveralls. I don't think anyone should be treated badly based on how they dress. But it's human for the mind to categorize.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:24
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Jupiter Jazz posted:What amazes me is that modern society has deluded many women into thinking that dressing loosely gives them freedom when it just makes them eye candy for men. I have seen women that dress modestly laughed at for lacking "fashion" and "taking womens clothes back to the 1930's." These same women decry being sexualized. Okay. Pick one. You're throwing around a whole lot of anecdotes and "people these days" kinds of generalizations. I'd encourage you to get as concrete with this kind of discussion as possible, because half-cooked anecdotes that no one can really grapple with or refute are how we get some really ugly stereotypes and untruths. You see this a lot with religious people, in fact. How many times have you heard some idiot spout off about how "all evangelicals" do this or believe that or hold some utterly contradictory set of beliefs. What I will note is that, in my experience, women who complain about how they're being treated generally aren't complaining about being "sexualized" they're complaining about being harassed.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:27
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Captain von Trapp posted:Modesty is definitely a swear word in our culture. What if I'm a loving, joyful, peaceful, patient (and so on) person who also wants to wear a short skirt? Can those two things not co-exist?
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Sep 14, 2021 03:27
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Cyrano4747 posted:The reverse is also true. If a person chooses to cover more of their body than I find "normal" due to my own cultural and religious norms, that's their right. Absolutely. People should be able to dress as they wish. I'm just saying 'they dressed immodestly and that provoked me' is removing a person's own agency and responsibility from a situation in a very bad way. In an attempt to absolve oneself from moral responsibility.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:29
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My own observation with fashion, writ large, is that it usually has more to do with communicating with your peer group or otherwise sending out a signal, so it is sort of weird from my perspective to see the categories expressed like this. "Modesty" seems like a very subjective thing, beyond the obvious detail of "not showing a lot of skin or shape."
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Sep 14, 2021 03:33
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Slimy Hog posted:What if I'm a loving, joyful, peaceful, patient (and so on) person who also wants to wear a short skirt? Can those two things not co-exist? If I were wearing a toga in ancient Rome, I would be saying "I'm rich". If I were wearing a toga today, I would be saying "I'm a very drunk college student". What you say when you pick your clothing is complicated and depends on your culture and circumstances. Your own intentions are part of it, but (like actual spoken language) not necessarily the entire story. Nessus posted:My own observation with fashion, writ large, is that it usually has more to do with communicating with your peer group or otherwise sending out a signal, so it is sort of weird from my perspective to see the categories expressed like this. "Modesty" seems like a very subjective thing, beyond the obvious detail of "not showing a lot of skin or shape." I think that actually hits it dead on. Fashion is about communicating, and modesty simply means communicating your character. It may so happen that that involves culture-bound norms of skin and shape, but really it's the communication that's fundamental.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:45
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Captain von Trapp posted:I think that actually hits it dead on. Fashion is about communicating, and modesty simply means communicating your character. It may so happen that that involves culture-bound norms of skin and shape, but really it's the communication that's fundamental.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:58
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I could be tits out naked and it'd still be on you to see and treat me as the whole person with a complex internal world worthy of respect that I am. Given that, I don't need to communicate poo poo other than 'it's 40C; I'm wearing shorts and a tank' Hell even if my mission was to purposefully communicate 'hello I am attractive, men and women pay me attention' that wouldn't affect how you ought to treat me So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of the 'should's in some of these posts
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Sep 14, 2021 04:33
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Killingyouguy! posted:I could be tits out naked and it'd still be on you to see and treat me as the whole person with a complex internal world worthy of respect that I am. In an ideal world, maybe. I may treat you as a person with a kind hand but unless you're mentally ill (of which I might come to the conclusion to if I see you out naked) I would definitely still judge you the way you're judging me right now.
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Sep 14, 2021 04:36
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If you haven’t castrated yourself like Origen you’re a himbo slut IMO
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Sep 14, 2021 04:38
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Killingyouguy! posted:Given that, I don't need to communicate poo poo other than 'it's 40C; I'm wearing shorts and a tank' I want to highlight this because I think it's important to take into account -- a lot of people wear short/scanty clothes because they find them comfortable, not to communicate anything to anyone, or are just throwing on casual dress to run errands or something and aren't thinking at all. Assuming that all women in immodest dress (whatever that may mean to you) are deliberately trying to attract sexual attention or communicate something about their character isn't really accurate or kind. Antivehicular fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 04:58
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