|
FMguru posted:For ACW the best single-volume history is BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM by James McPherson. Some people will say it's the best single-volume history of anything, period. Seriously, it's that good. I grabbed this because I found it at a second hand book store and I'm always up for reading Civil War history. It's worth it even just for the information about the lead up to the war, American textbooks tend to glaze over Bleeding Kansas, but it's pretty crazy read to learn why the Civil War was needed to end the spread of slavery. Ilor posted:Stephen Sears' books on the ACW are all top-notch, if a little more focused. He has 3 on particular battles (Chancellorsville, Gettysburg, and Landscape Turned Red (Antietam)), as well as a book on the entirety of McClelland's Peninsula Campaign, all of which are fantastic. They give a lot of context for why each battle happened when and where it did, the politics that drove things behind the scenes, as well as the key command decisions (or lack thereof) that led to the battle unfolding the way it did. He also has a one called something like "Lincoln's Generals" that's really good biography of some of the more noteworthy (or notorious) Union commanders. I read Chancellorsville in like a weekend, I absolutely could not put it down. Hooker said after the battle that he wins 99 of 100 battles in the woods, and the amount of things that had to go wrong for the Confederacy to win is astounding. It's also a good lead up to reading anything Gettysburg related, because it gives you an idea of why Lee thought his army was invincible. Also anything about Grant is always a good read, because the Lost Cause historians love to pretend that he was just a butcher. But his campaigns in the west were incredible, and Lee just barely parried his flank attacks in the overland campaign. Also god drat Benjamin Butler and Baldy Smith, they had the war won a year early and stopped short of capturing Petersburg.
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 11:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 23:01 |
|
|
Couple of questions: 1. Has anyone played All Is Lost Save Honor, operation wargame on the 16th century Italian wars? If so what did you think? 2. Does anyone know of operational scale middle ages/medieval wargames other than that or the Nevsky series? Want something that incorporates the movements of armies around a region without being a large scale strategy game but also not just a tactical game focusing on battles. Seems that's pretty hard to find for anything pre 18th century.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2022 11:59
|
|
|
Okay, I've been really enjoying Battle Cry of Freedom, but it made me think how ACW games are modeled. I've not really played any, but reading about McClellan who seems to have constantly blown it by imagining the enemy having many more troops than they actually did, how does that factor into games modeling the conflict? Like do some games have a McClellan chit that has stats representing this passivity and overcaution? Or do you just get the forces and can command them as you see fit, without the personalities of the commanders being taken into account?
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 14:03
|
|
|
Most games will try to take into account his passivity (or really, the passivity of any general involved in the ACW, on both sides). How this is done is based on the game itself, and the scale itself. On games that lean more on the strategic side, McClellan can be modeled as someone that is harder to activate for movement, or has lower battle stats (which is what For the People does). On the more operational scale, you have rules that limit your activation, or make your troops slower (which is the case for something like Great Campaigns of the American Civil War), where "thanks" to McClellan my troops were moving a lot slower than I intended, which ended with me and Panzeh fighting on the Monocacy river rather than Antietam itself. I I think overall if a game doesn't try to model the Command and Control issues that were present in the ACW, and especially the oversized influence that Generals had on the conflict, it's not really doing a good job of actually modelling the ACW at all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 14:21
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:Okay, I've been really enjoying Battle Cry of Freedom, but it made me think how ACW games are modeled. Depends on the scope and scale of the game. In a strategic level game you could keep the counters flipped over/upside down, so you can't see their strength until they're engaged.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 14:27
|
|
|
Just have the the CSA player get control of certain union generals and their armies with limits on what they can do without being fired. McClellan as a confederate general in all but name would be pretty accurate imo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 17:34
|
|
|
In Sekigahara, what happens if players tie on the initiative bid? Is that prevented by the cards somehow (like black only has odds and gold only has evens) or something?
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 18:03
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:like black only has odds and gold only has evens Literally this, except it's the black that gets evens.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 18:07
|
|
|
Blue vs. Gray, the card-based strategic scale ACW game, gives generals an Initiative score between 0 and 2. Grant and Sherman get 2 initiative, Pope and Burnside get 1 initiative, McClellan gets 0. (Some get a split score, e.g. Meade gets 1 on attack but 2 on defence, Hooker the opposite. McClellan has the worst initiative of all Union generals with 0 in both attack and defence.) Most Union generals like Pope and Burnside can command 5 corps (each of which has a typical strength of 3-5; Confederate units are generally weaker) but McClellan is unique in that he can command as many as 6. The combat results table is as follows: 1: Attacker Routed 2: Attacker Defeated 3: Generals' Battle (higher Initiative wins; stalemate if equal Initiative) 4: Soldiers' Battle (side with 5+ more strength than the other wins; stalemate if strength difference less than 5) 5: Defender Defeated 6: Defender Routed Roll is modified -1 if attacking a fortified city and +1 for every 10 points of strength the attacker exceeds the defender. Generals come out randomly, or if you are using the historical variant, you'll get McClellan early. So you may still want to use McClellan for a few reasons: (1) You can stack more troops under him, aiming for that 1/6 shot of winning a Soldiers' Battle and/or trying to get the +1 to the die roll if you really outnumber the opponent; (2) If you are facing Lee with an initiative of 2, it doesn't matter whether you have Little Mac at 0 initiative or Burnside with 1 initiative, you'll still lose the Generals' Battle if it's rolled; (3) You have no one better because nobody decent has been drawn.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 18:15
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:In Sekigahara, what happens if players tie on the initiative bid? Is that prevented by the cards somehow (like black only has odds and gold only has evens) or something? the rules actually don't state, but since VP ties favor Ishida, and they were historically "in charge," I'd say ties in initiative also favor Ishida. e: actually, according to BGG: quote:You can't have ties. Tokugawa has even numbers only, Ishida odd numbers only. Dr. Lunchables fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jun 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 19:11
|
|
|
A Strange Aeon posted:Okay, I've been really enjoying Battle Cry of Freedom, but it made me think how ACW games are modeled. In Victory Games' The Civil War, leaders would have initiative, army and tactical stats that would show how good or bad they were commanding an independent unit up to 6 strength points (30k men) or a full army (1-unlimited strength points; armies get bonuses like reaction rolls that a collection of strength points don't). So a commander like Robert E. Lee would take less to get him in gear and when he did attack he would have bonuses to his rolls as an army commander. McClellan, on the other hand, would have a higher initiative rating (more urging/resources to get him to go) and his army rating was tinted red to denote that he gave rerolls to the Confederate player. So McClellan's own timidity and the way he expressed it was abstracted by giving whoever he faced a ton of bonuses. This also modelled the two president's frustration with commanders at the beginning of the war and you wind up using politically elected or appointed commanders who are not good (Banks and Halleck are plain terrible) until the war places commanders within your reach who can find their rear end with a map and lantern. If you really want to live LIncoln's frustration, there's an option to randomly place generals in the timeline instead of when they historically rose to prominence. So Grant or Sherman or Lee could enter in 1864. NC Wyeth Death Cult fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 13, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 20:34
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:Most games will try to take into account his passivity (or really, the passivity of any general involved in the ACW, on both sides). How this is done is based on the game itself, and the scale itself. On games that lean more on the strategic side, McClellan can be modeled as someone that is harder to activate for movement, or has lower battle stats (which is what For the People does). On the more operational scale, you have rules that limit your activation, or make your troops slower (which is the case for something like Great Campaigns of the American Civil War), where "thanks" to McClellan my troops were moving a lot slower than I intended, which ended with me and Panzeh fighting on the Monocacy river rather than Antietam itself. I I think overall if a game doesn't try to model the Command and Control issues that were present in the ACW, and especially the oversized influence that Generals had on the conflict, it's not really doing a good job of actually modelling the ACW at all. In GCACW the capabilities of the overall army commanders tend to come about in the game-specific special rules- when it comes to simple movement, army commanders mostly serve to just be the piece that can coordinate multi-hex attacks. A few have assault bonuses but for the most part, the slowness of a commander is in scenario special rules and the event table. Even in, for example, Here Come the Rebels, the Antietam campaign game, the rules that slow Mac down are less him being slow and more, it is so recent after 2nd Bull Run that he has to get a hold of that command and rather than waste a bunch of time having the component units of his army trickle in, they start in DC and are locked until things happen. There's still a lot of friction involved in the union forces, and generally they're a bit harder to manage than the Confederates because they have smaller corps and lots of them, along with smaller divisions which makes them more unwieldy. It's an interesting thesis- that the commanders of the Army of the Potomac had a lack of success because of how complex the organization got. In Atlanta is Ours, Sherman's organization is a bit more optimal in game-terms- each of his army commanders can direct grand assaults and he can also do so himself with a bonus, though there are rules that slow him down if he gets off the rail lines or simply takes too much time being active- the game is modeling multi-month campaigns and has to try to have lulls, something the games that run less than a month don't worry about.
|
|
#
?
Jun 13, 2022 20:39
|
|
|
What's the best Napol- I'm kidding, but what are some good books for medieval history? Any country, don't care, the more "wow, we did that? thats weird" is appreciated. I just finished The Bright Ages and it was only okay, more of an argument about defining history (which is fine) but I'm looking for more meaty stuff, not a general overview.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 03:58
|
|
|
TheDiceMustRoll posted:What's the best Napol- I enjoyed A Distant Mirror. I'm not an expert though, so Tuchman's book may be outdated now. I found it accessible because it centered on one particular dude.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2022 18:29
|
|
|
ASL questions- 1) Has anyone played the Multi Man edition of the Solitaire Rules? 2) I have the original rules and the Beyond Valor Module. Can I get away with using the MM solitaire rules with the original rules and pieces or would it be better to rebuy the rules and first module?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2022 02:13
|
|
|
NC Wyeth Death Cult posted:ASL questions- There are a few people out there that play SASL 2nd Edition. Its not super popular, and there have been perpetual rumours of a reprint for like... at least 15 years iirc? Unless you're referring to a different ruleset. You'll be fine with the original BV module, although you may be better off with a newer set of rules. Not impossible to play the game otherwise, but there may be a couple of things either missing or not "standard"/up to par. The general lack of nationalities and maps does mean you may be limited in what you can get out of the solitaire game, although VASL does wonders to fix that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2022 03:54
|
|
|
welp I found a used but unpunched copy of Beyond Valor for cheap enough to be worth grabbing, and finally picked up the Electronic Edition of the rulebook as well.  It is the first edition of BV though so it’s got less stuff than the current printing by a pretty huge margin. Anything in particular to know or watch out for about the first edition scenarios in particular? Any favorite resources for people trying ASL from ASLSK?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2022 23:10
|
|
|
Rockman Reserve posted:welp I found a used but unpunched copy of Beyond Valor for cheap enough to be worth grabbing, and finally picked up the Electronic Edition of the rulebook as well. https://asl-players.net/downloads/sk-to-full-asl.pdf
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2022 23:20
|
|
|
What's the thread's consensus on the Lock n Load Tactical series? I played regular Squad Leader years ago and tried to make the jump to ASL, but it wasn't really for me. LnL sort of looks like "we took basic SL and made an expanded version of this but not nearly as heavy" which is 100% what I think I'm looking for.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 02:21
|
|
|
EdsTeioh posted:What's the thread's consensus on the Lock n Load Tactical series? I played regular Squad Leader years ago and tried to make the jump to ASL, but it wasn't really for me. LnL sort of looks like "we took basic SL and made an expanded version of this but not nearly as heavy" which is 100% what I think I'm looking for. I like it. It captures enough of the interesting bits and War Story Generator-ness of ASL without being an insanely overengineered monster (and nightmare for completionists). It has lots of scenarios with pretty interesting gimmicks though I imagine the gimmicks won't hold up to repeat play. The normandy box has a poo poo load of scenarios so you won't be lacking for things to play for a while if you get it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 04:54
|
|
|
EdsTeioh posted:What's the thread's consensus on the Lock n Load Tactical series? I played regular Squad Leader years ago and tried to make the jump to ASL, but it wasn't really for me. LnL sort of looks like "we took basic SL and made an expanded version of this but not nearly as heavy" which is 100% what I think I'm looking for. The Digital version on steam doesn't have a lot on the base version, but is only 5 bucks and I think I got it either for free or for sale for next to nothing. Might be a cheap quick way to give it a try. I can't give you a real opinion on it though, tactical level games always seem to just not click with me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 11:24
|
|
|
syzpid posted:The Digital version on steam doesn't have a lot on the base version, but is only 5 bucks and I think I got it either for free or for sale for next to nothing. Might be a cheap quick way to give it a try. I can't give you a real opinion on it though, tactical level games always seem to just not click with me. Aww poo poo I totally forgot that I already own that but apparently never installed it. I guess I’ve got the Normandy and Nam battle packs also. Rad! Also, the physical version of the Normandy box is between printings and I can’t really find a copy anywhere. Looking at either the Nam or WWII Pacific (or maybe N Africa). Savage what are the gimmicks you’re talking about? EdsTeioh fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jul 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 12:11
|
|
|
EdsTeioh posted:Aww poo poo I totally forgot that I already own that but apparently never installed it. I guess I’ve got the Normandy and Nam battle packs also. Rad! For example in the Normandy set there's a Normandy airdrop scenario where the Allies start with one hero on the board and the Germans start with a few squads in a bar. Basically the hero is going around clicking his little cricket signalling device trying to find his unit. Every turn the Allies have one of their units use the cricket (which marks it spotted if Germans are close) and then rolls on a table to see if they find German or Allied units which are placed on the map (Germans placed by the Allied player and vice versa). I think there's a decent number of scenarios with weird rules like that and lots of scenarios have event paragraphs that you're not supposed to read ahead of time. It definitely gives them a little bit more interest then your typical tactical game fair.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
SavageMessiah posted:For example in the Normandy set there's a Normandy airdrop scenario where the Allies start with one hero on the board and the Germans start with a few squads in a bar. Basically the hero is going around clicking his little cricket signalling device trying to find his unit. Every turn the Allies have one of their units use the cricket (which marks it spotted if Germans are close) and then rolls on a table to see if they find German or Allied units which are placed on the map (Germans placed by the Allied player and vice versa). Hey that's pretty cool! Have you messed with Nam or Pacific?
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 16:12
|
|
|
EdsTeioh posted:Hey that's pretty cool! Have you messed with Nam or Pacific? I have Pacific but I haven't played it at all. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 16:31
|
|
|
I played through the first Nam scenario on Steam today and lost turn 6; forgot to leave a squad in a hex :-(
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2022 16:47
|
|
|
EdsTeioh posted:Also, the physical version of the Normandy box is between printings and I can’t really find a copy anywhere. Looking at either the Nam or WWII Pacific (or maybe N Africa). Savage what are the gimmicks you’re talking about? Oh hey! It's been a while since I've checked in on the thread, but I actually have an unopened extra copy of LnL Normandy that I accidentally bought in 2020 if you're still interested in a physical box. Honestly, name your price plus shipping and as long as it's not absurd it's all yours. Weirdly I just found it again today and thought "I need to ebay that," but would much rather send it to a goon. If you wanted to use PMs just shoot me one, or aperfecturkel@systemshift.net works too. Or hey, have fun with the digital version! I love LnL. Squiggle fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 3, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
Squiggle posted:Oh hey! It's been a while since I've checked in on the thread, but I actually have an unopened extra copy of LnL Normandy that I accidentally bought in 2020 if you're still interested in a physical box. Honestly, name your price plus shipping and as long as it's not absurd it's all yours. Weirdly I just found it again today and thought "I need to ebay that," but would much rather send it to a goon. drat it Squiggle, I ended up finding a good deal on Heroes of Nam AND THEN decided I needed a copy of Root as well so my hobby money's a bit tapped at the moment. If you're looking for any trades though...
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2022 19:48
|
|
|
I've come to the realisation, after playing GCACW, that no matter the era, tactical games are trash (sorry ASLailures). Operational is the one true scale
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2022 11:54
|
|
|
 What if, get this, we just about fight bull run 3, but then, kinda, don't.
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2022 11:58
|
|
|
Tekopo posted:I've come to the realisation, after playing GCACW, that no matter the era, tactical games are trash (sorry ASLailures). Jokes on you, ASL has at least 1 Operational scale Module and thus is both Tactical and Operational! 
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2022 14:03
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:Jokes on you, ASL has at least 1 Operational scale Module and thus is both Tactical and Operational!
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2022 22:01
|
|
|
Jobbo_Fett posted:Jokes on you, ASL has at least 1 Operational scale Module and thus is both Tactical and Operational! Reading this sentence gave me an anxiety attack
|
|
#
?
Aug 7, 2022 22:59
|
|
|
This seems to be appropriate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thOifuHs6eY
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2022 20:01
|
|
|
I have been roped into Fire in the Lake at some point in the future. I've played Cuba Libre twice, and A Distant Plain once; any FitL-specific pointers going in that might not be obvious from the rulebook?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 15:04
|
|
|
Lean and understand the Pivotal Events, as some can override others. The Trail is probably the most important off-board track in any COIN game I’ve seen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
wrong thread
Tekopo fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Aug 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:40
|
|
|
I think that was meant for the regular board game thread Tekopo
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:43
|
|
|
Yep, whoops! Also, for FitL, advice is side-specific, do you know which side you are going to play in advance?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 23:01 |
|
|
Kazzah posted:I have been roped into Fire in the Lake at some point in the future. I've played Cuba Libre twice, and A Distant Plain once; any FitL-specific pointers going in that might not be obvious from the rulebook? The US is favoured so you might want to consider using some of the variants listed here (though I think the cards might have been updated anyway) Alternatively just go in knowing the US is generally considered to be the most powerful faction. Also for the VC player my experience is that it's easier to get locked out of being able to recruit due to spaces being at Support compared to CL or ADP. https://insidegmt.com/fire-in-the-lake-designer-variants/
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2022 11:43
|
|