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Everyone posted:Honestly, given that orc chiefs seemed to hold their tribes together through force of personality, I always thought nerfing Orcs on Charisma was dumb. If anything they should get bonuses. Hell, where does everybody think all those half-orcs come from (rape, but screw that)? It's because orcs are loving rock stars. Have you seen Orc women? A lot of human men seeing a big Orc muscle mommy and feeling something awaken in them. It's easy to see where half-Orcs come from, it's human adventurers getting snoo-snoo'ed.
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Dec 17, 2022 16:20
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RedSnapper posted:It's not like anyone plays an accurate representation of a 13th century monastic knight. Or an elf. Or a space marine. A 17th century Frenchamn is exactly the same - just say "hon" and "mon dieu" a lot, instead of "alas", "thou" or "emprah" and you're fine. Well, I at least try to make my character be more than just the interface for me to engage the game engine via. Emphasis on try. However, not many games - and certainly not DnD - have that many ways to encourage you to act socially in a specific way
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Dec 17, 2022 16:32
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Loxbourne posted:One of my favourite setting points in Americana is that it's a fantasy world that's reached the 1950s. Orcs are greasers, with leather jackets and huge bikes and massive combs. Literally an episode of Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxx1EtK4iKk
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Dec 17, 2022 17:02
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Young Freud posted:Have you seen Orc women? A lot of human men seeing a big Orc muscle mommy and feeling something awaken in them. It's easy to see where half-Orcs come from, it's human adventurers getting snoo-snoo'ed. They don't say it in those precise words but this is pretty much Eberron canon. Humans met orcs and both sides went, "I'm kind of into that..." and now humans, orcs, and half-orcs make up the dragonmarked house that's probably closest on a literal familial level, at least as much as the size of the house allows.
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Dec 17, 2022 18:22
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one thing d&d exposes is that the way the games stat system works is incapable of portraying a multicultural world. charisma is a fine stat provided you're in a culture that is just 'various types of humans w different ears and hair', but like in real life a person who is considered very charismatic in one culture might be very annoying to another culture. all goblins get -cha so do they all just dislike each other? i mean i guess so for goblins but based on the simulation the rules create, any given monster will be more easily swayed / seduced / tricked by a member of another species as their own. especially since its a medieval-ish setting so mass, rapid transit isnt a thing yet, so its gonna be like it is in england where each town has its own accents and mannerisms and dislikes its neighbours for being too showy or too reserved or too slick or too stuffy. i know theres been retcons and various justifications for CHA as a stat. Like it's some kind of ephemeral 'force of personality' quantifier, unless the thing you're having force of personality about is like monkly ascetism in which case it's WIS. I guess it exposes a tension in d&d's design between 'being a simulation' and 'being a game'. like the stat adjustments for monster races are definitely just there to make them a more appropriate creature for players to fight, not to try and be authentic about fairly portraying them as an individual with as much depth as a PC. I guess I'm just saying kinda obvious stuff out loud, I just haven't really thought like that much about D&D beyond individual mechanics sucking.
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Dec 17, 2022 20:11
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Loxbourne posted:One of my favourite setting points in Americana is that it's a fantasy world that's reached the 1950s. Orcs are greasers, with leather jackets and huge bikes and massive combs. Goddammit. Now I really, really want to see an all-orc version of West Side Story and it will never happen.
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Dec 18, 2022 14:58
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Twist: it's the pre-hams/JRPG pig-head orcs.
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Dec 18, 2022 15:24
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Re: popularity issues because the product strays away from the Standard Western Fantasy setting... Yeah it's probably why L5R is such a niche product. Though I'm fortunate to never have come across a GM with annoying gotchas. The only one was 1 honor ding because we forgot to take our shoes off when storming an Imperial's summer estate (no other honor dings from that encounter). It doesn't help that most folks default to playing a cool dude with a sword rather than taking into account the interesting but hosed up societial rules L5R steals from Fedual Japan (how dare they!). For me, the setting has to matter. For others, I'm fine if they don't pay much attention to it, as long as they don't take the piss. But long story short, folks see RPing is about bards seducing dragons and elves being hot at each other and they wanna do that and play the D&D.
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Dec 18, 2022 22:57
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Terratina posted:But long story short, folks see RPing is about bards seducing dragons and elves being hot at each other and they wanna do that and play the D&D. https://twitter.com/dunyakat/status/1599849346538749952
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Dec 19, 2022 06:05
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Terratina posted:Re: popularity issues because the product strays away from the Standard Western Fantasy setting...
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Dec 19, 2022 08:16
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 Part 4: The Artificer (and supporting line-up, the rest of the classes)  ”In the wilds of Xen’drik, Edgan the halfling rogue held onto the crumbling cliffside with one hand as poisoned arrows clattered around him. ‘Who knew the drow would get so upset over an insignificant piece of jewelry?’ he thought. ‘Stop daydreaming and pull me up!’ shouted his partner, Dorak, who was slipping out of Edgan’s other hand…” First, I actually want to start by jumping ahead to explain something the ECS added but didn’t explain until a little ways in: Action Points. Action points are, to be perfectly blunt, a quarter-assed attempt to accomplish what Warhammer Fantasy RP did with fortune points, or any other games with their reroll points. Once a round, you can spend an action point to add a d6 to one of your d20 rolls (an attack, save, or skill check, basically). Starting at level 8 you roll 2d6 and pick the best to add on, and at level 15 you get 3d6 to pick from. There are also a handful of other uses, such as spending an AP to automatically stabilize when dying. Feats can also give you new uses, improve your AP pool, or improve the die size to d8s. The big problem, aside from their general weakness, is that these do not refresh outside of level-ups. When you gain a level, you get 5 + ½ your total level (round down) AP. Any unspent from the previous level are thrown out. And you will only get AP back when you next gain a level. In my experience, this leaves players hoarding them so long that they forget about them until they level up, resolve to spend them in a more timely manner, then go back to hoarding after spending one or two. (Action points, by the way, are an import from d20 Modern, which itself imported them from Star Wars d20’s Force points. Which I assume based them on something from West End Games’s Star Wars, except I don’t know poo poo about that one so I am seriously just guessing here.) Now, without further ado…  The Artificer Along with the warforged, the Artificer class is the other big new fancy thing that Eberron added to D&D. If the wizard is a physicist, then the artificer is an engineer. Nearly everything about them is mechanically and flavor-wise focused around magic items - I hope you enjoy 3.5’s magic item creation! They obsolete the idea of a wizard buying in on item crafting with their bonus class feats, to say nothing of any other caster doing it at all with their regular feats. In a game where the gear treadmill is a significant element of your power, having a class that specializes in tailoring the party’s gear exactly as they like can be useful. The artificer is also a half-caster, getting up to 6th-level spells at their peak, focusing on buffs and constructs. Their spells are called infusions, for they are infusing an item or construct with power - they cannot cast their infusions directly upon a non-construct creature. The example given is casting bull’s strength upon a piece of clothing to let it act for its duration as a belt of giant strength, though the artificer could cast it directly upon a warforged. Unless an infusion’s description says otherwise, they also take a long time to cast - usually 1 minute, though you can spend an action point to chop that down to 1 round. They also lean in on the part of the rogue that’s about being clever with your hands and various gadgets - they don’t get any real stealth skills, but their class skill choices include the array of Search (trap-finding), Disable Device (trap-disabling), Open Lock, and Use Magic Device. Artificers even get the rogue’s Disable Trap class feature, meaning they can deal with magic traps. If you don’t actually care about stealth or sneak attack damage, then an artificer can ably take a rogue’s place in other important party roles. Use Magic Device is their outright most important skill. So, uh, it turns out warforged do get dinged as artificers, because their penalized Charisma means a penalized UMD check. Having an infusion on their class list doesn’t count as having it as a spell for the sake of spell-completion and spell-trigger items (scrolls and wands, mostly), so they’ll still need to roll UMD for those. They also have to roll it during item creation, once for every prerequisite they don’t meet to make an item (and having an infusion version of a spell also does not count as having that spell, meaning a single-classed artificer always needs to roll it at least once on a project) - if you fail, you can try again on the next day if your project is still ongoing, but then on the last day if you still have not succeeded on some prerequisite you get a "last ditch effort" bonus check. Single-day projects like most potions and scrolls thus get you two chances to try to pass the check. The Difficulty Checks of UMD are high enough that a starting artificer is actually more likely to fail than succeed. Skill will increase faster than DC, some of which don’t scale up at all, meaning item creation and item use will get easier and easier. After a few levels. Action points will make this a little less painful, but it’s still dodgy for a while. The final piece of the puzzle that makes the class work in its intended function is the Craft Reserve. On the off chance anyone is unfamiliar or doesn’t recall, to create a magic item in 3.x costs you not just money and time, but experience points. Expected value of magic gear was considered part of the power curve, so you delayed advancement in your class to instead gain an item-based boost to your power when you made magic items. Unless you were constantly making gear you weren’t likely to fall too far behind, especially as 3.x assumed you’d also be able to just buy stuff. But it was a lot cheaper in GP if the wizard was willing to wait an extra encounter or so to level up in exchange for that hot new magic item. Crafting a magic item costs half the market price in GP and 1/25th the market price in XP (minimum 1 XP per item even if its market price is below 25 GP), or every XP you spend coming out to 12.5 GP saved against buying the item. The Craft Reserve, as you might surmise, is a pool of points that the artificer can use to supplement or wholly replace the XP cost on making magic items. They get a limited amount each level and any unspent when they level up are lost. A 1st-level artificer only has 20 points in their reserve, but they can also only make magic scrolls. A 1st-level spell at caster level 1 is only going to cost 1 XP per scroll. Even if you have a roughly 50% failure rate on UMD checks to make them, the last-ditch-effort second check will help drag up the overall success rate, so the average PC artificer can provide roughly 12-15 discount scrolls at 1st level, which ain’t bad to have in your back pocket. This keeps scaling up, and in a hypothetical 1 to 20 career an artificer gets free XP costs on over 500,000 GP worth of magic items - which, again, you’re only paying half GP on to get made instead of buying outright. For some perspective, the 3.5 DMG suggests a character at level 20 has 760,000 GP of gear and other wealth. The artificer isn’t in “deck out the entire party in major magic items” territory from just their craft reserve, but it does come out to a decent percentage of an extra share of market value in magic items per character in a four-person party. That’s not nothing, especially in a game that depends on a bunch of bonuses from the item treadmill. As well, every four levels (4th, 8th, etc.) the artificer gets a bonus feat which must be either metamagic or picked from a list of new ECS feats which include the ability to knock 25% off of either GP or XP costs for item creation. Stackable. On top of that, at 5th level the artificer can also start destroying magic items and extract the “essence” (XP) in them to add to their craft reserve, as long as they have the ability to craft that kind of item in the first place. At that point, this is still everything but wands, rods, staves, and rings. Random treasure produces another magic sword when your fighter uses axes? I know I said I wouldn’t get deep into the mechanics in this review, but item creation rules are one of my weird gaming obsessions. I loving love them even when they’re overcomplicated nonsense. They’re a big set of levers I can grab even as a player to make new stuff in the game world. I spent years playing the poo poo out of a MUD that had good crafting rules even after I was kind of tired of everything else about it (especially the players) because I found it intensely satisfying to go out into the wilderness with nothing but a few tools and pants for modesty (yes, I know it was text-based, shut up), and come back later with a full new set of gear, all with custom descriptions, just because I could. Also, because understanding 3.5’s item creation really helps to understand a lot about what the artificer is supposed to do. This is the class as presented RAW: an engine for loving around with every aspect of magic items, lessening the burden of tweaking and tailoring the party’s loot, always handy with a scroll or potion for any need. Effectively a magical gadgeteer, but one whose prevalence changes the world. It’s basically that old half-joke, half-complaint of why wizards or gadgeteer superheroes don’t change the world on a grand scale. In Eberron, they do! However, it’s a mixed bag. The proliferation of modern conveniences was still accompanied by the proliferation of modern problems. The Last War is the most obvious example of that, but the world is rich with less overtly dramatic but no less pervasive issues. In the same way that systemic issues in the real world can’t really be directly attributed to an individual, an artificer is not the cause of these problems but is frequently a part of the systems that perpetuate them. And they will often feel very familiar. The Artificer class is concluded with a short profile of an example character, Thondred the dwarf. He’s nothing amazing, but his background still helps fill in some of the details of what the world is like. Particularly, it’s noted that he worked for Cannith but lost his job and was dismissed from the house when the war ended, because the creation forges that churned out warforged were closed. Obvious, perhaps, but it does tell us in no uncertain terms about an economic hit Cannith took with the end of the war, and that when they contracted they cast off a talented non-human with a PC class who should have been a prime asset to keep on. (Or, in non-game mechanics terms, someone with a very valuable and elite skill set, who probably cost a lot to train, who should have been a no-brainer to keep as an investment in the business’s future instead of a sacrifice for profitability now.) A lot of adventurers come from the end of the Last War in a similar way, whether veterans or working in industries that suddenly shrank and had to shift gears. As well, this creates some potential conflict if Thondred ever has to deal with Cannith again - and he almost certainly would. This is the kind of background detail that a player includes that suddenly starts sparking little ideas in my DM brain to enrich the world with, and it’s the reason I’m even highlighting it here. Eberron does this to me all the time, more than most other settings. The Other Classes  I like the styles on display here. Everyone is recognizably D&D but with some distinctive flair. Even if the shifter ends up being the shifteriest shifter that ever shifted, and the dwarf cleric is extremely dwarf cleric. While the artificer dominates the class chapter, there are still a few pages dedicated to little ways the other classes fit into Khorvaire. These include new suggested feats, prestige classes, minor rules changes, and an example character profile (minus any stats). Most of this stuff will be expanded upon at length later, but it’s a useful primer to point you where you need to go if this is your first time making a PC in Eberron. A lot of matters touched on here will go on to become much more thoroughly discussed later on, both in this book and in dedicated sourcebooks, as more is written about the houses, the nations, and the faiths of Eberron. I’m going to skip the character profiles because they’re even more perfunctory than Thondred’s and don’t really say anything too interesting that the book isn’t already saying about them. Barbarians are rare but not unknown in Khorvaire, (stereo)typically found among the monster races but with more than a few common-race sources of barbarians still around, especially in the fringe territories. Sometimes it reflects a warrior tradition that does not employ formal schooling and drilling like the fighter does, relying more on raw power and reckless courage. Some warforged pick up the class’s ways in isolation, loosed from the strictures under which they were originally trained. But we also start to get hints, mostly through the dragon-worshiping humans from the distant land of Argonnessen, of the class being treated as more a shamanistic calling, a companion class to the ranger and druid the same way the fighter, rogue, and cleric represent more specialized and “civilized” ways of doing the same kinds of jobs. The book also suggests the classic raised-by-wolves (or maybe owlbears) background for a barbarian of any race. Bards are the first real note that, for all that D&D usually marries character class and social role tightly together, Eberron explicitly deemphasizes that practice. Anyone can learn the Perform skill and be an entertainer, but a bard is a particular blend of adventuresome sage and diplomat, a spokesman armed with sword and spell. There’s a minor but persistent religious belief that Siberys, one of the three creator dragons who made the world, sang the world into being and bards have the curious gift of touching the echoes of that song to make their magic. Either way, a bard is something special, meant to thrive in the realm of intrigue and “soft” power with which Khorvaire is rife. Clerics push the point even further. You don’t need magic to preach. Having faith and a gift for divine magic doesn’t make you suited to striking down the unholy. Clerics are set apart, champions of the faith with a powerful gift and thorough training. Independent clerics of ideals and principles also exist, and their own gift of magic preserves them at least as well as any skilled rhetoric or strength of arms - even if you believe the Sovereign Host are the sole gods of the world, they clearly saw fit to bless this itinerant mystic just as they did you. It’s a pragmatic form of religious tolerance, though not universal. We also get some extra worldbuilding and rules here: the gods of Eberron are distant, if they even exist. The game line is perpetually vague on this point, to its strength, and even discusses possible sources and ideological lineages of the modern faiths in a similar manner to how historians discuss and debate the sources and influences on early Christianity. There are legends of divine intervention but no unambiguous declaration that, “Dol Dorn punched a thousand goblins in the face here to save our brave Druids are predominantly found in the western half of Khorvaire, where the most ancient of their traditions were founded among the orcs of the Shadow Marches. This eldest tradition, the Gatekeepers, came from the teachings of a scholarly black dragon named Vvaraak who foresaw an invasion from another plane and shared the secrets of how to command the magics of the natural world to block off such intrusions. Various other traditions descended from them as druid magics spread beyond the Shadow Marches, exploring different aspects of nature. Most accept “civilization” as a natural phenomenon and work to keep a healthy balance between the wild and the tamed worlds - the Eldeen Reaches are the breadbasket of Khorvaire due to druid magics enabling more sustainable growth without as much environmental destruction - but some despise civilization and the arcane. Fighters are fighters, found all over the place because there was just a huge war and now there are veterans trying to find new lives everywhere. They lean on the idea that fighters in particular are much more the elites of the veterans, people who were specially trained as commandos or in officer schools, as well as members of knightly orders. Monks in Eberron have made an attempt to “de-Orientalize” some, at least insofar as the designers could without rewriting the class entirely. It’s… well, it was an attempt, I guess. Monks remain contemplative ascetics who populate the monastery bastions of their faiths, but with a martial bent inherited from monastic traditions among the ancient Dhakaani empire of hobgoblins. The various modern traditions include training in a wider selection of monk weapons than normal (except you have to take a feat to get them… ugh) depending upon the faith in question. I enjoy the implication that the Khorvairan version of the Lindisfarne raid went very differently. Paladins are something Eberron struggles to find a place for in 3.5. The setting’s attempts to deemphasize alignment are at odds with how the paladin maintains the need to be Lawful Good, and the clerics being characterized explicitly as “champions of the faith” only muddies the paladin waters further. There’s some small distinction in that the vast majority of paladins come from the Church of the Silver Flame, and to a lesser extent the gods Dol Arrah and Boldrei (gods of honor and sacrifice, and of community and hearth, respectively) in the Sovereign Host pantheon. The Silver Flame encourages militancy on the part of its faithful, which at least fits with the idea of paladins being an especially martial version of clerics while having more overt divine gifts than monks. Paladins can still fall from grace even if clerics don’t, but the reasons for that are up in the air and not something the ECS really cares about, for good and ill. The book also suggests putting a paladin in Sharn or some other place where graft is the order of the day, being a reformer among their own in a place that fights reform. Psions are the only psychic class to get a profile here, but it’s noted that mostly the classes from the Expanded Psionics Handbook are much more common in Sarlona. There, many of them are mystics held in a religious reverence on par with the divine classes in Khorvaire. Fitting, as most of the continent is in the grip of the psychic spirits known as the quori. Rangers come from all walks of life, perhaps more than any other class. Some were army scouts during the Last War. Some are backwoods trappers and farmers who got very good at handling the occasional hulking beast out of the primeval depths of the Eldeen Reaches or Shadow Marches. Some are private investigators and bounty hunters in the big city. It turns out the skill set of “find people, stab them or arrow them, maybe aided by the power of racism” is pretty broadly applicable! (It doesn’t really explain them getting some nature-based divine magic in those situations but whatever.) Rogues are rogues. Plenty find legitimate work as private investigators, or as state actors such as spies or diplomats. Eberron’s “world of intrigue” is actually pretty good for rogues who want to get into the high-level political muck. Sorcerers have an explicitly more mystical bent in Eberron than other settings. Instead of blaming an ancestor banging a dragon, they claim their powers come from being touched by the cosmic dragons who made (and make up) the world: Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber. There’s some precedent to this belief, too, though not one that most would be likely to know, as dragonmarks are also a manifestation of the Draconic Prophecy (and thus the power of the creator dragons) upon the living flesh of the peoples of Khorvaire. Wizards are still getting up to all that wizard poo poo, but now in a world where the study of magic has a lot more academic structure to it. There are actual wizard boarding schools, mostly funded by governments or the houses. Wizard academia is a significant tool in the hands of the monied interests who want to exploit the resources and archaeological mysteries of Xen’drik (which the book itself simply casts as wizards having a naturally vested interest in learning new poo poo to put in their spellbooks). It will become more apparent later that the “academic interest” a lot of Khorvaire has in Xen’drik is a thin veneer over British Museum and Hobby Lobby-style looting of cultural artifacts to satisfy a range of desires from the crass mercantile, to ethnocentric arrogance, to the disturbingly apocalyptic. Next: Fiddly Bits
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Dec 19, 2022 08:48
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disposablewords posted:(Action points, by the way, are an import from d20 Modern, which itself imported them from Star Wars d20’s Force points. Which I assume based them on something from West End Games’s Star Wars, except I don’t know poo poo about that one so I am seriously just guessing here.) Force points from WEG Star Wars were extremely powerful within that system. WEG was d6 based. You'd roll a number a d6s that reflected your skill level in something, trying to beat some set difficulty level and/or the skill level of another character. Blaster vs. Dodge for example. A person with a 6d6 Blaster would generally be trying to hit a 15. If somebody was doing a full Dodge and their Dodge was 5d6, they'd roll that 5d6 and add it to the 15. Or they could "combat dodge" which is what you did when you also want to do something else aside from dodge. Like shoot back. And yes, multiple actions were very much a thing in WEG Star Wars. Each action after the first reduced your dice pool for all skills used by 1d6. So a guy with Blaster 6d6 and Dodge 5d6 who said "I'm gonna dive behind the bar (combat dodge) then pop off a shot each at the Stormtroopers (Blaster) would roll 4d6 with his blaster attacks and get 3d6 for his combat dodge for that round. Force point doubled the dice pools for the round in which a character spent one. So, instead of 6d6/5d6, our dude about would have 12d6 Blaster and 10d6 Dodge. When you absolutely, positively need to kill every mother-trooper in the room, you drop a Force point. Except that FPs are very rare and hard to earn. Basically you only earn one by DM fiat or by spending one in a "heroic, dramatically appropriate way." Luke hitting that thermal exhaust port. Murking some stormtroopers in a back alley likely wouldn't rise to that level. I admit I'm a huge fan of WEG Star Wars, because the team developing it had full access to Lucas and co. and were going at it from the viewpoint of "how can we make game rules that will let player do the stuff they saw happening in the movies." WotC basically just crammed Star Wars into their creaky-rear end Chainmail-descended D&D engine.
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Dec 19, 2022 16:28
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What the hell is "Xen'drik" and what is that apostrophe for. I'm going assume it's the wizard from The Last Unicorn unless given a particular reason not to.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:27
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Xiahou Dun posted:What the hell is "Xen'drik" and what is that apostrophe for. Xen'drik is where Eberron's drow live. Instead of being evil underground plotters, these noble dark-skinned savages live in an untamed jungle land...someone remind me why we thought Eberron was a step forward? The single apostrophe in Xen'drik is so you don't mistake it for Xen"drik, its evil duplicate where everyone has a goatee.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:34
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"The wilds of the wizard from Last Unicorn" would be a cool place to adventure in, but no.disposablewords posted:The World The apostrophe is like a space, but silent, in the long tradition of made-up D&D names.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:35
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It's a continent to the south of Khorvaire, and I don't recall if we ever get an etymology for the name. Presumably the apostrophe is to make it clear it's pronounced like "Zen-drick" instead of "Zend-rick," but also because it's a Fancy Fantasy Name and fuuuuuuuuck everything, you gotta give me at least one apostrophe! But if someone brought it up in-game, I'd probably pin it on coming from maybe the dragons via the elves, or borrowed from the goblinoids native to Khorvaire.
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Dec 19, 2022 18:40
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disposablewords posted:It's a continent to the south of Khorvaire, and I don't recall if we ever get an etymology for the name. Presumably the apostrophe is to make it clear it's pronounced like "Zen-drick" instead of "Zend-rick," but also because it's a Fancy Fantasy Name and fuuuuuuuuck everything, you gotta give me at least one apostrophe! But if someone brought it up in-game, I'd probably pin it on coming from maybe the dragons via the elves, or borrowed from the goblinoids native to Khorvaire. Could be etymologically Giant, maybe? I think that's where they had an empire in prehistory before... stuff happened, and Xen'drick stopped having a Giant empire, or really any large scale urban civilization of any kind
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Dec 19, 2022 21:04
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The Artificer is one of those things that absolutely killed D&D for me, ruined my ability to enjoy 5e, and makes me unable to get into Eberron whatsoever.
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Dec 19, 2022 22:09
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disposablewords posted:It's a continent to the south of Khorvaire, and I don't recall if we ever get an etymology for the name. Presumably the apostrophe is to make it clear it's pronounced like "Zen-drick" instead of "Zend-rick," but also because it's a Fancy Fantasy Name and fuuuuuuuuck everything, you gotta give me at least one apostrophe! But if someone brought it up in-game, I'd probably pin it on coming from maybe the dragons via the elves, or borrowed from the goblinoids native to Khorvaire. I don't know why you'd need to mark a syllable boundary there. It's not like anyone was going to read it as "ze-ndrick" otherwise. But of course it's just stupid fantasy naming. Why would I ever expect anything different. Thanks for trying, at least.
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Dec 19, 2022 22:20
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Asterite34 posted:Could be etymologically Giant, maybe? I think that's where they had an empire in prehistory before... stuff happened, and Xen'drick stopped having a Giant empire, or really any large scale urban civilization of any kind It's a possibility, and the elves may have also gotten it that way if they're the source, I'm just thinking in terms of where the humans of Khorvaire might've gotten it - kind of like how English-speakers got "Egypt" more from a tangled line of etymological descent through the Greeks and Romans. Plus the Giant empire was extremely collapsed by the time humans came to Khorvaire.
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Dec 19, 2022 23:09
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Nessus posted:I think there are plenty of people for whom that kind of huge social tension would be delightful but they are not the people being sold L5R. Very true! I ask, "But why play L5R then?" The main answer I've seen is "because sexy samurai." Can't argue with the power of sex selling. 
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Dec 19, 2022 23:27
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Terratina posted:Very true! It is at least to the current edition's credit you don't get as much sexy midriff bearing samurai armor.
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Dec 20, 2022 00:29
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Fivemarks posted:The Artificer is one of those things that absolutely killed D&D for me, ruined my ability to enjoy 5e, and makes me unable to get into Eberron whatsoever. So what made the artificer so hateable in 5e?
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Dec 20, 2022 01:17
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LaSquida posted:So what made the artificer so hateable in 5e? No clue, they seem much better than they were in 3e. They seem fairly popular from what I have seen.
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Dec 20, 2022 01:40
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Artificers, in my experience, have something of a warping effect on games if one's in the party. There are other classes that tend to pull the game in certain story directions, but artificers present a huge range of capabilities that no other class can readily share, and a lot of it works differently in mechanics than other classes. This goes double if the artificer is played by someone who really knows 3.5e, a type of player that artificers attract because of how they work and the potential power they can have. I like artificers as a concept, but they can derail a game very quickly if the DM isn't on the ball.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:07
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I got that in 3.x, where they had full caster issues+crafting issues; I'm just wondering how much of that actually transferred to 5e.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:39
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I just don't really like crafting mechanics in pen and paper RPG's. In cRPG's they can be somewhat balanced by measuring out crafting materials and such because you can have a pretty bounded world, but in a pen and paper RPG it's hard to limit their access to whatever players can make stuff from in the same way. Not to mention that you run into the perennial issue of balancing crafted and found/bought equipment. If the crafted gear is worse, there's no reason to craft things. If the crafted gear is better, you need to balance everything around everyone being fully decked out in crafted equipment as far as its possible.
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Dec 20, 2022 02:49
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PurpleXVI posted:I just don't really like crafting mechanics in pen and paper RPG's. I'd think the biggest fall-down for crafting would be time. Maybe ingredients/materials but mostly time. Let's go back to AD&D and say that Steve the Mage wants to make a basic +1 Sword for one of his henchmen (since by the time Steve is potent enough as a mage to make a permanent magic item everybody else in the party has long since upgraded past +1 weapons. Assuming he already has the materials, maybe the process of doing takes two-four weeks. Two-four weeks with no travel/adventuring/etc. Assuming that's okay with everybody else, the GM says, "Okay, a three weeks have passed, make your skill/magic/whatever check to make sure you didn't gently caress it up." Assuming the dice are with him, then yay, Steve's henchman gets a new +1 Sword. On the other hand maybe you're playing Warhammer FRP 2e and Snorri the Runesmith wants to make a sword with Runes of Fire, Fury and Striking (+1 damage from fire and weapon functions as a torch, +1 Attacks characteristic when using the weapon, +10 Weapon Skill). That's going to take Snorri a minimum of 14 months plus 3d10 days. Assuming the party is involved in some ongoing plots, those plots probably aren't going to wait the 14 months, 3d10 days it's going to take Snorri to make his admittedly badass magic rune sword.
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Dec 20, 2022 03:45
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Everyone posted:I'd think the biggest fall-down for crafting would be time. Maybe ingredients/materials but mostly time. Yeah but then you get into the issue of some skills just being bordering on useless and/or extremely subject to GM fiat whether they see any use at all. If you let players mess with the crafting at all, and use time to limit it, you should still at the very least give them the time needed to do it at full blast once or twice. Downtime between adventures or whatever to allow for those big long epic crafting things, because otherwise Snorri's player is going to feel a bit screwed over that they invested the skills needed to be able to do that, and then never get to actually use it. Also in the case of D&D until 3.x there was very little mechanical work put into giving players a way to craft magical items, it was assumed that maybe they would craft one or two over the lifetime of a mage going from level 1 to 20, but it was far from guaranteed and the rules around it were very vague and very open to GM's defining the specifics.
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Dec 20, 2022 03:55
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One thing about Eberron that was good IMO that I don't think has come up yet is that there were not really any high level NPCs. The Lord of Blades is a big deal, but he's only level 12. In general, the heads of organizations like the Dragonmarked Houses, kings, high priests, etc are in the neighborhood of level 10. This lets the PCs feel like they can have real influence much earlier than in something like FR and has the added bonus of reducing the temptation for the DM to turn to Elminster/Mystara/Raistlin/Paladine to keep the plot moving along the rails. Railroaders gonna railroad, I guess, but the "please just go this way it's all I have prepared for" technique is way less annoying for me than the "oh, look Elminster teleports in right as you were discussing what to do next and the DM lovingly spends 5 minutes roleplaying him smoking his pipe and rambling on about all the goddesses he'd slept with" approach.
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Dec 20, 2022 04:47
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Bouquet posted:One thing about Eberron that was good IMO that I don't think has come up yet is that there were not really any high level NPCs. The Lord of Blades is a big deal, but he's only level 12. In general, the heads of organizations like the Dragonmarked Houses, kings, high priests, etc are in the neighborhood of level 10. Yeah, I think the highest level NPC in the setting is an 18th level Cleric. Who is only that powerful within a very specific geographical location and exists more as a plot device than anything else. Everyone else important isn't even in the teens, and there's no level 20 shopkeeps running around.
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Dec 20, 2022 05:08
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LaSquida posted:So what made the artificer so hateable in 5e? Its a mixture of what everyone has said already, the way that Artificers tend to push things in a direction towards a steampunk/dungeonpunk aesthetic that I really don't like, and the fact that, mechanically, Artificer just does things that Ranger is supposed to do but better, while also making GBS threads out magical items and gear and making the entire game about them. Every single time I've been in a game with someone playing an Artificer, the Artificer became the sole focus of the game. Heaven forbid you play a Ranger in a game with an Artificer, where the Artificer will just be better at every single thing the Ranger is supposed to be able to do. Edit: Admittedly, I am also very upset about how Half Orc has become less and less and less of a thing in D&D, with, if I recall rright, Baldur's Gate 3 pushing them out entirely in favor of having the Gith. I also don't like Tieflings either. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Dec 20, 2022 |
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Dec 20, 2022 05:09
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Dawgstar posted:It is at least to the current edition's credit you don't get as much sexy midriff bearing samurai armor. Oh, the current edition is great. Pisssd off a lot of the grognards too. The divide between folks who prefer the d10 after FFG custom is real, let alone the sexy midriff bearing samurai market crash.
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Dec 20, 2022 05:22
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senrath posted:Yeah, I think the highest level NPC in the setting is an 18th level Cleric. Who is only that powerful within a very specific geographical location and exists more as a plot device than anything else. Everyone else important isn't even in the teens, and there's no level 20 shopkeeps running around. I was about to say I thought Lady Illmarrow was stronger than that, but she is actually only Level 16 in 3e.
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Dec 20, 2022 05:34
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Everyone posted:I'd think the biggest fall-down for crafting would be time. Maybe ingredients/materials but mostly time. Let's go back to AD&D and say that Steve the Mage wants to make a basic +1 Sword for one of his henchmen (since by the time Steve is potent enough as a mage to make a permanent magic item everybody else in the party has long since upgraded past +1 weapons. Assuming he already has the materials, maybe the process of doing takes two-four weeks. Two-four weeks with no travel/adventuring/etc. Assuming that's okay with everybody else, the GM says, "Okay, a three weeks have passed, make your skill/magic/whatever check to make sure you didn't gently caress it up." Assuming the dice are with him, then yay, Steve's henchman gets a new +1 Sword. Once again the reason a rule sucks is because it came from Gary’s Chainmail campaign supplement.
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Dec 20, 2022 06:44
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Yeah apparently back then, when the Wizard was spending a month making a magic ring, the player would just use a different character while that was happening. There were tons of games that did time skips still, but they would still just adventure with different characters while others were doing downtime.
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Dec 20, 2022 07:01
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I just realized that from a perspective where the goal of the game is to gain power for your characters, the weird and draconian XP losses and failure chances on crafting also make sense: Being able to just make magic items during downtime makes going into dungeons to find them pointless.
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Dec 20, 2022 07:33
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 Drive-Thru RPG page The Dungeons & Dragons Player’s Handbook has described the RPG as supporting three pillars of gameplay: combat, exploration, and social. In reality, two of those pillars are vestigial in function and only one is holding up the mass of game rules. There have been various attempts at expanding the non-combat aspects of gameplay to be more meaningful and involved, and one of the more notable takes was Cubicle 7’s Adventures in Middle-Earth. Although many tropes of Tolkien became endemic to D&D, a truly authentic Middle-Earth experience was not like the dungeon-crawling epics of mages and murderhobos, so large portions of the 5th Edition rules were either cut away or changed to be more in line with the book series. The Journey system was one such new rule, an involved mini-game that turned traveling into an extended aspect of gameplay complete with its own choices, risks, rewards, and encounters with effects that persisted beyond the Journey itself. It was a novel idea, although the system had some flaws. One of the six classes, the Wanderer, was tailor-made for making Journeys easier to the point that they were vital to a large aspect of gameplay in a manner similar to how trap-detecting Thieves and healer Clerics functioned in old-school D&D. There’s also the fact that doubling proficiency in Survival made it easy for the party Guide to generate only positive effects and encounters, with negative ones becoming a distinct rarity. As I was the Wanderer in a 2 year old AiME campaign with Expertise in Survival, I can attest to this via personal experience. Although Tolkien’s 5eified world is now being published by Free League, Cubicle 7 had the essence of a great exploration-focused system on their hands, one which they sought to turn into a sourcebook of its own for D&D in general. DId they succeed or did they fail? Only one way to find out!  In spite of being nearly 300 pages long, the core mechanics of the Journey system are surprisingly brief. All the better to introduce to players so that they won’t feel overwhelmed, which I feel is a good thing. The bulk of Uncharted Journeys has DMing tools for generating the contents of the Journey. Roles are basically the special responsibilities which PCs can take before undertaking a Journey, and are divided into four types: the Leader, who is in charge of coordinating the group and providing morale, the Outrider who goes ahead of the group to scout for safe routes and threats, the Quartermaster who is in charge of gathering and maintaining supplies, and the Sentry who keeps watch of their surroundings for danger. Each Role has a unique Role Ability which they can use once per Journey, and they can select from around three skill or tool proficiencies to roll for Group Travel Checks. Group Travel Checks have every PC roll, usually to determine the outcome of an encounter based on total number of successes or failures. Roles are strictly for PCs, although there are options to get NPC Hirelings to fill in a vacant Role under the Preparation section of Chapter Two. As you can imagine, Uncharted Journeys favors larger parties over smaller ones: parties with less than 3 PCs can have a character occupy up to 2 Roles, where their “secondary role” rolls related checks with disadvantage but they can use both Role Abilities. For parties with more than 4 PCs, up to two PCs can occupy each Role (but only one can make use of a Role Ability), where one makes relevant checks with advantage representing helping hands. The Leader’s special ability lets an ally reroll a failed ability check or saving throw once per party member, and their Group Travel Check choices are predictably socially related such as Persuasion, Insight, Performance, or Musical Instruments. The Outrider’s special ability allows the player to roll for determining an Encounter type; the DM also rolls, and the player chooses which type to select. Their Group Travel Check choices hinge towards ranger-style options of Nature, Survival, or Cartographer’s Tools. The Quartermaster’s special ability automatically activates at the beginning of a Journey, giving them a number of d6 Supply Dice equal to their proficiency bonus that they can use to add to an ally’s ability check during the Journey. Their Group Travel Checks are tool-centric, being Athletics (they can choose Constitution or Strength rather than the default Strength), Blacksmith’s Tools, Leatherworker’s Tools, Cook’s Utensils, or Brewer’s Supplies. The Sentry’s special ability is similar to that of the Quartermaster’s save in that they generate Focus Dice which add to the result of a saving throw or initiative check. Their Group Travel Checks hew closer to the Roguish side of things, being Perception, Stealth, or Disguise Kit. While Uncharted Journeys mentions that some classes will be better-suited to certain roles based on likely ability score bonuses and proficiencies, things are still pretty broad. Only the skill checks mandate a specific ability score, so a high-Charisma Bard with a Disguise Kit can make for a surprisingly good Sentry, and the Quartermaster can be either a bulky porter or a keen-eyed bartender. With the right use of doubled proficiency a Bard, Rogue, or someone with the right feat can excel at a certain Role. The Journey rules make a pretty drastic change to one of the core assumptions of 5th Edition. Namely in that they alter how and when you can take short and long rests during the Journey. Rests during a Journey aren’t your typical 1 hour and 8 hour increments, but instead can be done only at appropriate times. This represents the tiring nature of regularly traveling for days or weeks on end, even if the party technically gets regular sleep. A short rest can only be done once, albeit doing it automatically adds an additional Encounter, which may not necessarily be a bad thing as Encounters can range from the beneficial to detrimental. A long rest cannot be performed during a Journey unless an Encounter specifies they can. Thus, characters during a Journey have an alternative means to refresh their rest-based class features between Encounters. Typically speaking they can spend 1 Hit Die to regain a single use of a short rest refresh class ability, and 2 Hit Die to recover a single use of a long rest refresh one. Spell slots are an exception, in that you must spend a number of Hit Die equal to the spell level of that slot. There are some exceptions in this system: a Monk’s ki points re regained on a 1 for 1 basis with Hit Die, a Paladin’s Lay on Hands refreshes 5 hit points per Hit Die, and Warlocks must spend Hit Dice equal to the level of their spell slots given that they always cast their magic at their highest level. There’s no mention of how Sorcery Points interact with this system, though. I can’t imagine that regaining them all for 2 Hit Dice is intended, for that will be really cheap. Overall, I like the spending of Hit Dice in that it gives a new use for something that isn’t always used evenly. PCs who are often guarded by other party members or can easily avoid harm will appreciate more uses to spend this resource. The alternative rest-based mechanic is something I’d need to see in play to accurately judge, although it looks like it can work as only really unlucky parties on the longer Journeys are going to generate more than a few combat-focused Encounters. My biggest concern is that several abilities, notably those of magic items, have refresh rates based not on rests but rather by the cycle of day and night. As “per day/until next dawn” abilities are on par with long rest abilities, this may cause such features to be more powerful during a Journey than they otherwise would be. But overall I’d say it’s a more reasonable step away from how overland encounters are done in default 5th Edition, where a single encounter may happen during a day allowing PCs to feel much more powerful in blowing through their resources. This was a pretty big problem with encounter balance in the Kingmaker adventure path for Pathfinder, I remember that much!  This chapter covers the rules for what happens before, during, and after a Journey. Journeys are separated into three Stages: Setting the Route determines the origin and destination along with Distance and Difficulty; Prepare has each PC do special tasks to ease the burden and gain benefits to use during the Journey; and Make the Journey generates the Encounters during the Journey along with the outcome on Journey’s End. Technically that’s four steps, but who’s counting? Set the Route is pretty simple: the Distance ranging from Short to Very Long determines the default number of Encounters, which can be modified by the party doing an initial Group Travel Check. A table is provided based on distance and travel time in imperial units, although this is relative and the book calls out other uses based on the context of the area and endeavor. For Example, a Journey entirely in a Great City may be anywhere from going to the next neighborhood (Short) to going from one end of the city to the other (Very Long). The Journey Difficulty sets the universal DC for the various tasks and challenges involving Encounters during the Journey. The DC is 10 by default (and cannot get lower than this) and further modified by Weather and Terrain, both of which have modifiers ranging from 0 to +10 each. Traveling on a well-maintained road under clear skies and comfortable weather can make the Difficulty as low as a 10, but adventuring in a region with constant volcanoes, earthquakes, and deadly storms can be a tortuous 30. There are ways during the next step to lower the DC, or raise it on unlucky rolls. Prepare is where the party assigns Roles and chooses from a table of 15 Preparations. Each Preparation is a DC 13 ability check involving an appropriate skill or tool. 4 Preparations have negative consequences for failure, such as increasing the Journey Difficulty by 2 or imposing disadvantage on all ability checks for that PC during the first Encounter of the Journey. The Preparations are pretty broad, such as Brew Tonics which can give each party member advantage on Constitution checks and saves for the Journey’s duration or until they fail such a check/save, Prepare a Feast allows each party member a one-time ability to not gain a level of Exhaustion when they’d suffer one during the Journey, and Procure Mounts can give each party member an animal which can allow them to substitute Wisdom (Animal Handling) checks in lieu of one of the three physical checks/saves during the Journey’s duration based on whether the mount is strong, agile, or rugged. 4 specific Preparations can reduce the Journey Difficulty, usually by 2 although one bears special mention. Chart Course requires a Cartographer’s Tools check which can reduce the Journey Difficulty by 5 on a success. Unlike the other 3 it has consequences for failure in increasing it by 2. Having a mapmaker during a Journey can be very useful, but miscalculations can make things harder. PCs can all take a Long Rest before starting a Journey, although PCs can forego this and gain a level of Exhaustion in order to perform 2 Preparations. I wouldn’t recommend this unless they have an ability to ignore or heal Exhaustion given that’s a pretty punishing condition to have. Most skills can be used for Preparation, with the outliers being Acrobatics, Deception, Intimidation, Medicine, and Perception. I can understand Acrobatics being a bit limited and Perception is already a useful and common enough skill, but it feels odd that Deception and Intimidation don’t get much play for social-based stuff, and Medicine is a shoe-in for Brew Tonics. The tool checks are pretty broad as well. They include Brewer’s Supplies, Cartographer’s Tools, Chemist’s Supplies,* Cook’s Utensils, Herbalism Kit, and any kind of Gaming Set. There are no Musical Instruments, although I imagine that the Leader Role covers this for group checks. And strangely, while there are Preparations for mounts, vehicle proficiencies don’t have options by default. However, Uncharted Journeys does cover this in their Open Waters section, where Navigator’s Tools and Water Vehicle proficiencies can be used for certain Group Travel Checks. The book’s one step ahead of you on this! Sadly there’s no rules for traveling through space or really weird planes of existence like the Far Realm, but as this isn’t a DM’s Guild product I can forgive the authors for this. *Presumably alchemist’s supplies. Make the Journey is pretty short, as specific encounters cover the final chapter which occupies the majority of this book. After Preparations are complete, the Journey has 1-4 Base Encounters based on Length, and the party makes a Group Travel Check based on the Journey Difficulty. Depending on how many members of the party succeeded or failed (based on more or less than half, not specific PCs) they can get anywhere from -1 to +2 to the Base number. The DM then determines the Encounters based on what Region(s) the party is going through, each of which has their own unique Encounters. There are 12 different Encounter Types which are determined via rolling a d12, and each Region (save Open Waters which is a special case) has a unique d10 table for each Encounter Type. As there are 16 Religion types in this book, that amounts to nearly 2,000 results! If for any reason the PCs have to abandon the Journey mid-way, such as taking too many casualties or resources drained from Encounters, there are rules for this. Generally speaking this is a bad thing that imposes penalties and calls for a Constitution save as though they made an Arrival detailed below, although the consequences for failure are worse in suffering Exhaustion and even losing remaining hit dice. If a PC is killed, kidnapped, or otherwise taken out of commission long-term then the party suffers a Catastrophic Failure which immediately ends the Journey and everyone automatically suffers a level of Exhaustion.  Journey’s End is the final stage, and occurs when the party reaches their destination after completing all of the Encounters. This is known as an Arrival, and each PC rolls a Constitution save but can add the Quartermaster’s Constitution or Intelligence modifier to their own result. Success gives them temporary hit points equal to their level, while failure imposes a level of Exhaustion. If the entire party succeeds they all gain Inspiration, but lose Inspiration if they all fail. The Sentry rolls a number of d12 (minimum 1) equal to their Wisdom modifier for an Arrival table, and takes the highest result. The Arrival table gives a general description of the circumstances the PCs find themselves in, with higher results giving more relative safety. For instance, 1-2 has an Unforeseen Danger where hostile creatures are aware of the party’s arrival and have one round to prepare before they’d normally roll initiative, 10-11 is Relative Safety that grants them the opportunity to take a Short Rest, and 12 or higher is Safety that lets them take a Long Rest. Unlike Encounters, the circumstances of dangers are based more on the DM’s discretion and what they have planned for the destination in question. Additionally, the DM can give out Rewards to PCs for completing a Journey. These can be narrative rewards such as allies or fame gained as a result of the Journey’s Encounters, short-term bonuses such as Inspiration or advantage on Role-based abilities for their next Journey, or even a table of Experience Points to give out based on the Journey Difficulty! Thoughts So Far: Uncharted Journeys does a good job in turning the exploration pillar of 5th Edition into an involved process on its own. There’s enough variety in Roles and Preparation activities to make it so that most character concepts can contribute in a positive fashion. Additionally the rules themselves are easy enough to copy-paste and hand out to PCs, with even the Preparation actions being a few pages at most. So much of the system can be boiled down to “roll an ability check/save” that it should be easily absorbed by non-newbie D&D players. There is still some risk involved in Journeys even for non-combat encounters, as will be detailed later: notably in the expenditure of Hit Dice, levels of Exhaustion, and disadvantage on certain rolls to reflect the taxing nature of long-distance travel through hell and high water. I do like this element of risk, although given how Exhaustion works this can lead to a “death spiral” effect as even the first level imposes disadvantage on all ability checks. My main criticism of the Journey rules is that they’re not ideal for 3 person parties, which pretty much mandate a Hireling to avoid disadvantage on rolls for the absent Role. Another thing that comes to mind is the interfacing with certain magic spells and the Journey rules. While Journeys can take place over a long enough period of time to end the duration of most spells outside of Encounters, I can see the party mage with Guidance casting it on PCs during Group Travel Checks and perhaps even Preparation rolls if they’re the kind of rolls that don’t have to be made immediately. Furthermore, there’s no mention of how Procure Mounts interacts with PCs who already bought or have their own mounts. Then there are higher level spells: can Control Weather be used to lower the Journey Difficulty for an Encounter if it makes the weather calmer, for instance? There’s so many spells out there that I don’t expect the book to have an answer for all of them, and due to how rest works PCs will still be expending valuable resources, but it’s still something I would’ve liked to see the book elaborate on. I will give Uncharted Journeys one thing: by altering the Rest system it solves the Goodberry problem of trivializing “survival-based” adventures and campaigns. As even Short Journeys can take two days to a week, the idea of casting the spell every day to feed the whole party isn’t something that can be casually done in this system. Maybe at higher levels when the party has Hit Dice and spell slots to spare, although I feel that at 3rd and 4th Tiers having a good amount of food is a trivial pursuit. Join us next time as we cover interesting people and places to stumble upon in Chapter 3: People Along the Way and Chapter 4: Ancient Ruins!
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Dec 20, 2022 08:54
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Free League publishes The One Ring, not Adventures in Middle-Earth. While TOR also has a travel focus, it runs on its own system.
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Dec 20, 2022 10:48
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Siivola posted:Free League publishes The One Ring, not Adventures in Middle-Earth. While TOR also has a travel focus, it runs on its own system. There's a 5th Edition Lord of the Rings RPG which from what I heard is a newer version of Adventures in Middle-Earth. They also published the One Ring RPG. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/410268/The-Lord-of-the-RingsTM-Roleplaying--EARLY-ACCESS
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Dec 20, 2022 10:56
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