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who the hell is playing PSP games in TYOOL 2023?
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Mar 22, 2023 19:57
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| # ? May 23, 2024 16:07 |
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My current play order: CSIII-> CSIV , Zero and then current Azure. Maybe I get to sky if they port it to switch
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Mar 22, 2023 19:58
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I think future ports of Sky would be a bit of a nightmare rights wise because the localizations were done by XSEED yet I don't see them publishing the Switch ports if they happen. You should absolutely at least play Sky before CSIV, Zero and Azure though and the games are old enough that a complete potato can run them. They run well on Steam Deck too, I've no idea why the games are listed as not supported on Steam; the proton layer runs them perfectly.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:27
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CSIV has playable guest characters from like every previous game. (Well, except Sky 3rd, I guess?)
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Mar 22, 2023 20:30
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OddObserver posted:CSIV has playable guest characters from like every previous game. (Well, except Sky 3rd, I guess?)
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Mar 22, 2023 20:32
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Some Numbers posted:You have to play in Western release order: Play FC, wait four years to play SC, play CS1 three months later, CS2 one year later, Sky 3rd in six months, CS3 and 4 and then wait four more years to play Zero and Azure. My order as someone that had to endure every bit of wait lol. I personally recommend CS1 as the best starting point though. A lot of people seem to get this "I only like Sky" mentality when they start with Sky, meanwhile, I've just never seen a Cold Steel starter dislike the other games for any reason but being dated. I attribute it to Sky not being able to be truly Trails on account of being the start of Trails, while Cold Steel is well in the thick of it and teaches you what Trails is alongside what Cold Steel is.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:36
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I like Sky through Azure. I tolerate Cold Steel, but I have big issues with the latter half of the arc. To be clear, I played the Western release order, so I didn't play Zero/Azure until the Geofront released their patches and I put off CS3 until after playing Azure.
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Mar 22, 2023 20:54
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MythosDragon posted:My order as someone that had to endure every bit of wait lol. I've never seen any Sky fans dunk on Crossbell or Calvard, if they've played them. Just Cold Steel. And honestly, that's understandable as Cold Steel feels like it was written by completely different people and has different priorities and a younger target audience in mind compared to any other games in the series.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:17
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I've never seen any Sky fans dunk on Crossbell or Calvard, if they've played them. Just Cold Steel. And honestly, that's understandable as Cold Steel feels like it was written by completely different people and has different priorities and a younger target audience in mind compared to any other games in the series.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:23
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None of my issues with Cold Steel are even present in Crossbell.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:27
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Endorph posted:like 90% of the stuff people complain about in cold steel is much worse in the crossbell games But in the Crossbell games that stuff's limited to a handful of moments, mostly in Azure. You get a lot more exposure to it in Cold Steel, given that they're longer and four games.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:27
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SMDH all this implicit hate for Elliot.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:29
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Endorph posted:like 90% of the stuff people complain about in cold steel is much worse in the crossbell games I'd agree with Azure, not so much Zero. But some of Cold Steel's problems do originate in Azure. But having said that, my biggest problem with Cold Steel is mostly all down to everything about Cold Steel 4's plot and setup and how it retroactively impacts events you're told about in previous games and not in a good way. There's kind of a reason it took me a while to bother playing Reverie and Kuro, because after Cold Steel 4 I was honestly about ready to write off the series. I felt like (CS4 spoilers) why should I give a poo poo about anything in the games if most major events, including Hamel were all because of a magic curse and not human selfishness and greed? .
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Mar 22, 2023 21:29
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They're all good Sky definitely harkens back to the older style though, the starting setup as basically exactly the same as the third Gagharv game.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:31
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Tesseraction posted:SMDH all this implicit hate for Elliot. I eventually promoted him above "Weiner Kid". It just took two games.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:32
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I'd agree with Azure, not so much Zero. But some of Cold Steel's problems do originate in Azure. But having said that, my biggest problem with Cold Steel is mostly all down to everything about Cold Steel 4's plot and setup and how it retroactively impacts events you're told about in previous games and not in a good way. even as someone who hates THE CURSE i dont think it was saying that it was entirely because of THE CURSE or anything they specifically point out that the curse was extremely weak prior to being awoken in cs3 and the most it could do was slightly nudge people towards things they wanted to do anyway and also weissman isnt an erebonian citizen and the hamel massacre was parlty his idea
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Mar 22, 2023 21:33
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Endorph posted:even as someone who hates THE CURSE i dont think it was saying that it was entirely because of THE CURSE or anything Crossbell & Cold Steel 4 spoilers I still inherently hate it as a concept and I hate how it's used to justify events in the story, I honestly think it's some of the laziest and weakest writing Falcom have ever done. It's way too tidy and convenient and the curse itself was inconsistent in what it actually does, veering from being a simple devil on your shoulder whispering into your ear to make bad life choices to completely overtaking you like some kind of possession and turning you into a monster. You could make the argument that Gnosis is just as inconsistent in the Crossbell games and you'd not be wrong, but at least everything to do with Gnosis had a human mastermind behind it who absolutely was an insane, selfish power hungry maniac and it's easier to buy that people change for the worse by taking a magic drug and becoming addicted to it. Ishmelga is just too... abstract to be satisfying as a villain I think.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:44
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Crossbell & Cold Steel 4 spoilers Oh, I 100% agree, I just think it's not series ruining. like the curse is largely a conceit to allow for all of erebonia to be in favor of the war with calvard without having to hold them morally accountable for it, and likewise to allow for ash to shoot the emperor without having to hold him accountable for it. it's an extremely stupid conceit but they go out of their way to downplay it having any relation to past events beyond a vague 'guiding hand of fate...' type thing. the erebonian nobles that went along with the hamel stuff weren't completely normal people who got touched by curse juice, they were greedy selfish bastards who would have done something like that anyway, and the curse at most made them ignore their worries about the consequences. again, the series would be better if the curse didnt exist, but its not 'literally everything was caused by this.' they specifically point out lechter's dad as the main culprit and his motivations and reasons. It's the kind of cowardly writing that characterizes CS4, but it's also something they at least go out of their way to minimize and near as I can tell barely mention in Kuro. In general, Kuro and Kuro 2 did a lot to restore my faith in the series. They aren't perfect but they're a lot more human. CS3/4 are so busy excusing the characters for doing bad things that they barely let the characters have foibles. and in general CS4 totally ruins osborne. im fine with him having a giant robot fight with rean since its a video game and we gotta fight the bad guy somehow, but him taking out a sword and throwing down just misses what was compelling about him as an antagonist so hard.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:48
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Its very lame when they try to tie the curse into a bunch of stuff from previous games the curse wasn't actually involved in but honestly I think its something that just hurts CS3 and CS4's plot. Its easy enough to separate from the earlier stories because i'm not an idiot and I can tell a retcon when I see one. It doesn't really impact how I see Sky or anything.
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Mar 22, 2023 21:59
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Endorph posted:and in general CS4 totally ruins osborne. im fine with him having a giant robot fight with rean since its a video game and we gotta fight the bad guy somehow, but him taking out a sword and throwing down just misses what was compelling about him as an antagonist so hard. also the whole "he's literally Dreichels reincarnated" was a hot pile of BS and did nothing to advance the story. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that I think CS4 completely ruined Arianrhod too. Azure built her up as this immensely powerful literal living legend that the SSS had to struggle immensely against and then she just...loses pretty unceremoniously to Rean and his buddies (twice) and if that weren't enough, Rufus manages to surprise her and actually kill her? Complete waste.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:16
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Ytlaya posted:I think that I don't like the existence of S-Crafts as a mechanic. Or at least the way they're implemented where you have to figure out whether it's worth not using your more interesting skills to save up for one. That's not a problem with S-crafts, but with balancing. Before Cold Steel, craft attacks are near useless because any physical attack you could make is eclipsed by arts damage, so the only reason to use your CP is on buffs or taunt or other non-damaging effects. Then you reach Cold Steel where damage crafts are useful, but now you don't know which ones are the most efficient because the budgeting is all over the place. You have C rank crafts that are more efficient than S rank crafts, and it becomes very confusing. I like being able to pop S-crafts at will. I wish enemy bosses could do the same, keeping you on your toes.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:26
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Some Numbers posted:also the whole "he's literally Dreichels reincarnated" was a hot pile of BS and did nothing to advance the story. I think she wins the first fight. Or more like the the gang flees before it comes to an end.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:40
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I didn’t have that much of a negative reaction to The Curse. I always saw it as half a metaphor for the darkness in humanity given form and the escalation of a Sept Terrion running rampant, like the Aureole and Sept Terrion of Zero. And people arguing that it takes people’s agency away, the games themselves says time and time again that the Curse is only as effective as the people who give into their base negative desires. Of course there’s outliers like the horse turning evil because it ate the Plueroma grass, but for the most part I saw what the story was going for and rolled with it.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:40
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SgtSteel91 posted:I didn’t have that much of a negative reaction to The Curse. I always saw it as half a metaphor for the darkness in humanity given form and the escalation of a Sept Terrion running rampant, like the Aureole and Sept Terrion of Zero. And people arguing that it takes people’s agency away, the games themselves says time and time again that the Curse is only as effective as the people who give into their base negative desires. Of course there’s outliers like the horse turning evil because it ate the Plueroma grass, but for the most part I saw what the story was going for and rolled with it. This is basically my take, too. I get where people are coming from with their criticism, but I don't really agree with any of it for the reasons you laid out.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:43
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Endorph posted:Oh, I 100% agree, I just think it's not series ruining. like the curse is largely a conceit to allow for all of erebonia to be in favor of the war with calvard without having to hold them morally accountable for it, and likewise to allow for ash to shoot the emperor without having to hold him accountable for it. it's an extremely stupid conceit but they go out of their way to downplay it having any relation to past events beyond a vague 'guiding hand of fate...' type thing. the erebonian nobles that went along with the hamel stuff weren't completely normal people who got touched by curse juice, they were greedy selfish bastards who would have done something like that anyway, and the curse at most made them ignore their worries about the consequences. These are basically all my same problems with these games and I had kind of written off the series at this point but now I’m a bit interested in actually giving Kuro a fair shot when we get it.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:48
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I think she wins the first fight. Or more like the the gang flees before it comes to an end. SgtSteel91 posted:the games themselves says time and time again that the Curse is only as effective as the people who give into their base negative desires. In the case of CS4, the most charitable interpretation is that the curse magnifies existing negative emotions to the point where those emotions become overwhelming, but even then, I find it unsatisfying and a pretty mediocre storytelling device since it gives all the characters a neat and convenient way to escape accountability.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:50
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Some Numbers posted:also the whole "he's literally Dreichels reincarnated" was a hot pile of BS and did nothing to advance the story. I’m with you that the Reincarnation thing was necessary. It could easily just have been that Osborne was an exceptional person, like Dreichels, that attracted Ishmelga to make him its Awakener. But I don’t think Arianhood got done dirty or anything. When you fight her in CS3 there’s a big buildup since you have Aurelia, who herself is a certified badass, you fight all the Stahlritter at the same time, and at the end only Aurelia is left standing. Then in CS4 during the interim you kind of end on a stalemate, and in the last fight by that point Rean and Class 7, by basic story structure, having overcome and survived everything up to that point has made them strong enough to be at the level of and defeat her. Rufus coming in for a backstab when she’s at her weakness is a great character moment for him to show how much of a power hungry bastard he is that he throws away all pretense of nobility and shows how far he’s fallen
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Mar 22, 2023 22:51
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Mind Control talk I personally take much more issue with Weissman and Bootleg Weissman having mind control powers than I do essentially a god having mind control powers.Some Numbers posted:
Literally my biggest issue with the entire series. She was the coolest member of Ouroboros bar none, and had 5 GAMES OF BUILDUP just to end on a wet fart. I mostly point towards CS3 not advancing the plot much at all on account of forcing itself to be a new arc rather than a sequel arc and CS4 having to do literally everything, but we've also reached critical mass where the protagonists get 98% of the screen time with diminishing returns, and we're pretty much wasting most of the antagonists which would be better served some of that time. It's made worse by the fact that we have a perfect mechanic to give them that time too, just bring back Doors, an entire game of Doors, where we get several hour segments of controlling Antagonist teams doing antagonist things. Also if they just delayed her death 1 day, she could have been part of Eventide, talk to her 5 children, get closure and I'd be 90% less bitter about it. SgtSteel91 posted:I didn’t have that much of a negative reaction to The Curse. I always saw it as half a metaphor for the darkness in humanity given form and the escalation of a Sept Terrion running rampant, like the Aureole and Sept Terrion of Zero. And people arguing that it takes people’s agency away, the games themselves says time and time again that the Curse is only as effective as the people who give into their base negative desires. Of course there’s outliers like the horse turning evil because it ate the Plueroma grass, but for the most part I saw what the story was going for and rolled with it. Completely agree here too. There's also the fact that MANIPULATING HISTORY is a hell of a lot more of a super feat than mind controling some dudes that don't have portraits, and like 3 people with portraits.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:51
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CS4 I'm probably just bitter because Crow got to live and Arianrhod didn't and I got really sick of all the Crow drama.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:54
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The worst thing about the curse is that Ash shoulda gotten Spirit Unification from having the curse inside him like Rean, but he doesn't and its bullshit!
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Mar 22, 2023 22:56
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The worst thing about the curse is that Ash shoulda gotten Spirit Unification from having the curse inside him like Rean, but he doesn't and its bullshit!  Holy poo poo that would have been fantastic.
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Mar 22, 2023 22:58
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Way to make Ash even more the best Pancake Bracer.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:01
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I can only hope they rectify this mistake when he returns in Kuro 3......
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Mar 22, 2023 23:03
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That actually raises a question. Reverie Do they ever explain why Rean can still use Spirit Unification?
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Mar 22, 2023 23:05
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Some Numbers posted:I guess my issue is more that the game expects the player to win the battles. Ash wants someone to pay for Hamel, that’s all on him, that the Curse pushes on that desire until he gives in and shoots the Emperor. It was entirely possible to resist the Curse’s influence, it’s shown throughout CS4 in side quests, bonding events, etc. But Ash still gave in, it why when Juna tries to assuage his guilt and say it was the Curse’s doing, Ash rejects it.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:05
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Some Numbers posted:That actually raises a question. Spirit Unification is brought up more than once in future games, yes.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:07
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RevolverDivider posted:These are basically all my same problems with these games and I had kind of written off the series at this point but now I’m a bit interested in actually giving Kuro a fair shot when we get it. Theres still a pivot to ancient evils and stuff but its more standard jrpg level than how all encompassing The Curse got. And in general i like van as a protagonist a lot. In general kuro just feels way more confident in itself, even with me not liking some of the choices they mostly feel like a result of what theyre trying to do more than how cold steel 4 felt a little afraid of itself.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:10
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It helps that really, nobody in Kuro is 'normal' unlike, say, Elliot or Machias who kinda gets shafted as a result of being The Grounded Normal Ones. Van and Quatre are more victims of DG like Tio was, Agnes is another descendant of a tech genius (THE tech genius, Epstein himself), Feri has Fie's child-Jaeger deal, Aaron's another reincarnation, Judith's in Rixia's boat of having a secret identity, and Risette's a cyborg.
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Mar 22, 2023 23:22
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The more time passes the more I like all the Cold Steel games so I get the best of all worlds where Trails has been peak nonstop and I’m excited for Reverie and Kuro
SgtSteel91 fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 22, 2023 23:29
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| # ? May 23, 2024 16:07 |
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Can't wait for Kuro. Speaking of Azure, same deal as Zero where the PS4 version is missing content because it's a straight port of the older version?
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Mar 22, 2023 23:34
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