2023 NBA Draft discussion

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > 2023 NBA Draft discussion

Mean Baby: May 28, 2005

Rick posted:

This was my first full OTE game, City Reapers (the twins' team) vs OSL Flacons and let me tell you, it's more fun than a college game at least.

Now, high schoolers were out of draft contention long before I started caring about the draft, but I seem to remember the conventional wisdom being that you could not take much from games with high school aged kids and just had watch every possession as if it was in a vacuum.

That's important for the twins because they were not the best players in the game Ty-Laur Johnson, Armoni Zeigler, and especially Youssouf Singare, all guys entering college this year (although to be fair Youssouf is 20, although apparently he's only been playing basketball a very short time, which is wild because he looked great out there) were really good, and arguably more impactful than Ausar and definitely more impactful than Amen.

But, this OT format has a hilarious rules where once you enter the bonus if you get fouled you get a power play (4 on 5) for 14 seconds, and if you get fouled during that power play you get 2 free points. The City Reapers scored 8 points on these power plays, the Falcons never even got a power play, the Reapers won the game by 3 despite being dominated much of the second half. Take what you will from this situation.

I plan to watch them some more provided I have the time. I can see why people feel highly about Ausar, at least a little bit. Amen, not so much. But I've come around to feeling like these are prospects that I'm just going to have to trust the people I respect know what they're talking about.

I would need to watch that game in particular, but I believe what scouts really like about them is they play really well within the flow of the offense. They don't generally force plays and are more concerned about playmaking than scoring. They also have unreal athleticism, especially their first step, and sort of just float around the court. Both are good playmakers, but Amen is more trusted as a primary ball handler.

On one pod I heard a comparison of Amen to Pippen, which is obviously a really high bar, but if you squint you kind of see it.

I watched a bit of Miller vs. Alabama. I'm going to watch a good game of his, but there is something about him that just feels off.

# ? Jun 11, 2023 18:09

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 23:01

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

Lockback posted:

That archetype really needs to do more mid-range C&S, which has vanished. Midrange is still there but usually off screening action or ISO which isn't usually in the skillset of the kind of guy you're talking about.

There are still guys who move to shots but it's like MPJ or Bane or bench guys like Malik Beasley. Those aren't quite the same as what you're talking about, that's more drifting to a spot up and not really the Rip Hamilton thing.

So basically I think its evolved as the mid range catch and shoot has vanished and has become more part of having 3pt catch and shoot as part of a larger skillset.

Great point lb

Mean Baby posted:

I would need to watch that game in particular, but I believe what scouts really like about them is they play really well within the flow of the offense. They don't generally force plays and are more concerned about playmaking than scoring. They also have unreal athleticism, especially their first step, and sort of just float around the court. Both are good playmakers, but Amen is more trusted as a primary ball handler.

On one pod I heard a comparison of Amen to Pippen, which is obviously a really high bar, but if you squint you kind of see it.

I watched a bit of Miller vs. Alabama. I'm going to watch a good game of his, but there is something about him that just feels off.

My favorite comper is the nbadraftroom (not nbadraft.net) guy, and his amen comps were propsect shaun livingston and bigger john wall, which I think are solid. Scottie was more of a Kawhi Leonard type than a speed creature like Amen.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 11, 2023

# ? Jun 11, 2023 19:46

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Scottie (and Wall) were both high skill players in multiple offensive ways. Amen to John Wall sounds closer but I think Wall in general had more to his game than Amen does right now especially in terms of "doing anything without the ball in his hands".

I also have heard the obvious "Tall Morant/Rose/Westbrook" but I feel like he's not going to be the kind of scorer those guys are. It's harder to tell with a guy coming from G-League though.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 20:51

morestuff: Aug 2, 2008; You can't stop what's coming

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1668352475454136338?s=20

Uh I guess Ingram + No. 14 or something? But no thanks

# ? Jun 12, 2023 21:22

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

morestuff posted:

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1668352475454136338?s=20

Uh I guess Ingram + No. 14 or something? But no thanks

zion for portland's pick straight up

# ? Jun 12, 2023 21:43

Kibner: Oct 21, 2008; Acguy Supremacy

I'm going to be crushed no matter what happens with this.

Like, even if it's a Cousins-like fleecing, something awful is going to happen because voodoo curse.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 22:01

Calidus: Oct 31, 2011; Stand back I'm going to try science!

What Portland sending back in contracts? Simons is nice but you probably need a third team involved. Scoot, Simons and CJ doesn�t make a lot sense.

Pelicans are asking for Sharp + #3 in any Zion package.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 22:10

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Portland isn't trading for Zion.

Ingram is a far more likely piece, I'd think.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 22:41

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Calidus posted:

What Portland sending back in contracts? Simons is nice but you probably need a third team involved. Scoot, Simons and CJ doesn’t make a lot sense.

Pelicans are asking for Sharp + #3 in any Zion package.

Sharpe is the future in Portland. Management loves him and isn't going to package him with anything for less than a perennial all-star.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 23:12

Mean Baby: May 28, 2005

Calidus posted:

What Portland sending back in contracts? Simons is nice but you probably need a third team involved. Scoot, Simons and CJ doesn�t make a lot sense.

Pelicans are asking for Sharp + #3 in any Zion package.

Zion's value is pretty low given his injury history, weight, and overall seeming pretty immature. I don't see Zion being worth Scoot. I'm not sure he is even worth a straight up trade for Sharpe given the contract difference.

There is a lot of smoke around Scoot not being that valuable in the media lately. If you just watch the game against Wemby, you know that is ridiculous. I could see Ingram + #14 being worth Scoot and a couple of 2nds. The Blazers have a couple of trade exceptions, and a lot of cap holds, so I don't believe they would need to take back significant salary.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 23:31

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

The Puppy Bowl posted:

Sharpe is the future in Portland. Management loves him and isn't going to package him with anything for less than a perennial all-star.

Yeah they've literally stated it (Whether through woj or whatever I forget) they are not trading Shaedon for anything. I'm still upset that Weaver drafted Ivey over him, even if Ivey is looking like he has a future as a starter+ player.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 23:58

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

Bobi Klintman dipped out of the draft. It was the right thing to do. He's forward sized but is an AD style grew up guard kid. He has a lot of physical and skill development, and just getting better at understanding bball because he's Swedish and didn't grow up playing.

He adds a little bit more upside to next year's draft of mainly role player types

# ? Jun 13, 2023 00:11

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

I really like Sharpe but holding on to both Dame and him seem like one of those �you can�t have a foot in both worlds� thing

# ? Jun 13, 2023 00:13

Mean Baby: May 28, 2005

I think if Embiid or someone of that caliber was legitimately available Sharpe would be on the table. Sharpe + Simons + Henderson / Miller would be a compelling contour of a deal for the 76ers I would think.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 00:52

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

If a current reigning MVP was on the table I hope Sharpe would not be off limits

# ? Jun 13, 2023 01:17

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

I hate that move for both teams. I love Ingram but if you put him next to Dame there's no way he maintains any sort of focus on defense which makes that team's ceiling pretty low. I don't really know why NO does it unless they're blowing it up because I like Scoot but he's not likely a first year star.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 01:31

Penisaurus Sex: Feb 3, 2009; asdfghjklpoiuyt

Might make more sense as a 3 team deal. Blazers can keep BI or reroute him elsewhere, Dame goes out for picks.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 01:32

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Penisaurus Sex posted:

Might make more sense as a 3 team deal. Blazers can keep BI or reroute him elsewhere, Dame goes out for picks.

If Portland wants picks for Dame then they aren't trading a pick that gets Scoot.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 01:37

Salvor_Hardin: Sep 13, 2005; I want to go protest.; Nap Ghost

New dark horse lottery pick here

https://twitter.com/OregonZoo/status/1668290845085417473?t=kXIlliMKLN5cOPXUjQ_Tqw&s=19

# ? Jun 13, 2023 01:42

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Salvor_Hardin posted:

New dark horse lottery pick here

https://twitter.com/OregonZoo/status/1668290845085417473?t=kXIlliMKLN5cOPXUjQ_Tqw&s=19

Better finisher than Brandon Miller.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 02:13

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

99% of every mock has Kris Murray to the Kings so SAS please give me your list of 5 players other than Murray who you think may be good players available for Sacramento

# ? Jun 13, 2023 02:30

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

WhyteRyce posted:

99% of every mock has Kris Murray to the Kings so SAS please give me your list of 5 players other than Murray who you think may be good players available for Sacramento

It's impossible for me to figure out who's gonna end up between 10-30 but I think Noah Clowney will be available.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 02:54

WhyteRyce: Dec 30, 2001

My uninformed opinion has me liking Leonard Miller, Whitehead, Lewis, and Nick Smith

Monte is probably locked in on Jaime

# ? Jun 13, 2023 03:18

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

I like Leonard Miller a lot, I'm pretty sure he is going in the top 15 but then again there are still mocks with him in the second half.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 03:19

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Salvor_Hardin posted:

New dark horse lottery pick here

https://twitter.com/OregonZoo/status/1668290845085417473?t=kXIlliMKLN5cOPXUjQ_Tqw&s=19

A local Boy for Portland at 3.

WhyteRyce posted:

I really like Sharpe but holding on to both Dame and him seem like one of those “you can’t have a foot in both worlds” thing

This is definitely true but I'm not sure they can harvest real value by parting with either one. What's the best you can get for the 3rd pick and Sharpe? Who can offer the best deal for Dame and what does it look like?

In neither case do I think you end up with better than Sharpe and Dame together.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 03:40

IcePhoenix: Sep 18, 2005; Take me to your Shida

The Puppy Bowl posted:

What's the best you can get for the 3rd pick and Sharpe? Who can offer the best deal for Dame and what does it look like?

In neither case do I think you end up with better than Sharpe and Dame together.

I bet you could get KAT for that with some filler to make salaries work and maybe a protected pick

# ? Jun 13, 2023 04:30

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Yeah, not sure how that's a win for Portland.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 07:57

Calidus: Oct 31, 2011; Stand back I'm going to try science!

The Puppy Bowl posted:

Yeah, not sure how that's a win for Portland.

Offensively thats a great 1+2 punch, probably only really behind Denver. I have no idea what you do Nurkic, probably get third team involved?

# ? Jun 13, 2023 09:37

anakha: Sep 16, 2009

Since there's no decision-making needed with the Spurs' first round pick, I'm looking at the 33rd pick options.

Has anyone seen James Nnaji play for Barcelona? How likely is he to drop to the second round?

# ? Jun 13, 2023 10:05

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Calidus posted:

Offensively thats a great 1+2 punch, probably only really behind Denver. I have no idea what you do Nurkic, probably get third team involved?

Offense has never been the problem in Portland. Nurk is a whole other headache. Post injuries he's not good enough. He's also hard to unload in a trade and better at center than any reasonable options the Blazers have. It's a whole drat thing.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 16:47

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

anakha posted:

Since there's no decision-making needed with the Spurs' first round pick, I'm looking at the 33rd pick options.

Has anyone seen James Nnaji play for Barcelona? How likely is he to drop to the second round?

I think it's pretty likely. he's been discussed as a stash, but we'll see.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:22

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

WhyteRyce posted:

My uninformed opinion has me liking Leonard Miller, Whitehead, Lewis, and Nick Smith

Monte is probably locked in on Jaime

I have detected that you like 3 point shooting

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:23

Dejan Bimble: Mar 24, 2008; we're all black friends; Plaster Town Cop

WhyteRyce posted:

99% of every mock has Kris Murray to the Kings so SAS please give me your list of 5 players other than Murray who you think may be good players available for Sacramento

hawkins, whitehead, omax

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:24

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Like if the goal really is to help Dame and keep the young players they like, the trades might be pretty ugly on paper. But doing something like Scoot for Alvarado and Jones and Nance might more realistically accomplish that goal than Ingram, but I get the optics on that trade are not good.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 18:25

NickRoweFillea: Sep 27, 2012; doin thangs

Brandin Podziemski looks like he checks a lot of the boxes Kleiman likes. I am not crazy about his inability to crack the Illini rotation, but 1.8 steals a game�bretty gud

# ? Jun 13, 2023 21:06

Hashtag Banterzone: Dec 8, 2005; Lifetime Winner of the willkill4food Honorary Bad Posting Award in PWM

Rick posted:

I hate that move for both teams. I love Ingram but if you put him next to Dame there's no way he maintains any sort of focus on defense which makes that team's ceiling pretty low. I don't really know why NO does it unless they're blowing it up because I like Scoot but he's not likely a first year star.

I could talk myself into Ingram. Assuming Portland keeps Thybulle, a Dame/Thybulle/Ingram/Grant/Nurkic starting 5 seems like it should be ok defensively and hopefully have enough offensive firepower to keep Thybulle on the floor.

The bench would still need a lot of work, but Ingram is young enough that he could be part of a post-Dame team.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 21:27

Mean Baby: May 28, 2005

Rick posted:

Like if the goal really is to help Dame and keep the young players they like, the trades might be pretty ugly on paper. But doing something like Scoot for Alvarado and Jones and Nance might more realistically accomplish that goal than Ingram, but I get the optics on that trade are not good.

Scoot is basically at the value of D-Rose, Wall, or Kyrie on draft night. You wouldn�t take anything less than an all star plus picks for that caliber of franchise prospect. Three role players on a play-in team is nowhere near the value.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 21:28

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

Lockback posted:

Scottie (and Wall) were both high skill players in multiple offensive ways. Amen to John Wall sounds closer but I think Wall in general had more to his game than Amen does right now especially in terms of "doing anything without the ball in his hands".

I also have heard the obvious "Tall Morant/Rose/Westbrook" but I feel like he's not going to be the kind of scorer those guys are. It's harder to tell with a guy coming from G-League though.

Wait what did Wall do off ball

# ? Jun 13, 2023 21:36

Lockback: Sep 3, 2006; All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

DeimosRising posted:

Wait what did Wall do off ball

Midrange catch and shoot, he'd be a cutter, almost all of his 3 point shooting came off assists. He was ball dominant, but without the ball you still had to pay attention to him in ways you don't need to with Amen (though a lot of that may be G-League). His skillset looked more complete on draft day, but he was a #1 pick.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 21:44

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 23:01

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Mean Baby posted:

Scoot is basically at the value of D-Rose, Wall, or Kyrie on draft night. You wouldn�t take anything less than an all star plus picks for that caliber of franchise prospect. Three role players on a play-in team is nowhere near the value.

I think you're right on the value assessment, but I also think that the Blazers need three defensive-do-the-little-things minded roleplayers more than they a single other star.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 23:51

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