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a primate posted:I guess I missed when PP decided to restrict immigration. All major parties have wanted to boost immigration for my entire lifetime. The only way they have differed is in making overtures to letting the “right kind” of people in. You’re right, I got ahead of myself there. So let’s just agree that everyone agrees that immigration isn’t going to stop, because it’s counter productive.
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Dec 22, 2023 20:24
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a primate posted:E: when was this mythical time? Statscan has positive numbers going back to 1852 You don’t get off that easy. Can you think of any time, any time at all, where immigration was, by law, by far the lowest it has been at any time in recent memory, say the past 30 years? Do you remember what house prices did in that time?
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Dec 22, 2023 20:38
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CI I know you're still watching the thread on a parachute account, I forget which way you leaned but I'm sure you're snickering all the same.qhat posted:You’re right, I got ahead of myself there. So let’s just agree that everyone agrees that immigration isn’t going to stop, because it’s counter productive. Who says it wont? While its currently true all 3 parties are full steam ahead with replacing all the farmland in the GTA with McMansions and then saving some lots for rooming houses or quadplexes for all the the same day delivery amazon workers, eventually the common person is going to start putting it together that our immigration policy (a huge, and unrelenting demand side force) is driving unaffordability of housing on both the buying and rental side. We simply are not building enough inventory to sustain the (total) immigration levels, and short of a massive government project to build housing (a non starter) it will only get worse. Do we really need the economic benefits of all these international students working 40 hour work weeks, and then another 20-40 under the table to afford their degree from the prestigious Stanford - Mississauga campus? I can honestly wait an extra 5 minutes in drive through for my double double or another day for my amazon order. We're literally exploiting these people for GDP must always go up economics. Anyways, I personally think that this will start to gain traction and will become a non-partisan issue where the constituents will demand action from their respective parties. A post for CanPol to be sure. namaste friends posted:http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...hboard/follows/ CI, praise be his name, first of the JUST BUY THE F HOUSE crowd. Risky Bisquick fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 20:42
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qhat posted:You’re right, I got ahead of myself there. So let’s just agree that everyone agrees that immigration isn’t going to stop, because it’s counter productive. Fair enough. It would probably nuke the economy. Something about the predatory nature of student visas and it potentially exacerbating the housing situation really bothers me though. qhat posted:You don’t get off that easy. Can you think of any time, any time at all, where immigration was, by law, by far the lowest it has been at any time in recent memory, say the past 30 years? Do you remember what house prices did in that time? No, you got me there. You did say zero immigration though, which is what’s throwing me off.
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Dec 22, 2023 21:02
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There are probably ~900k study permit holders in Canada at the moment (I don't think the official numbers are out yet but that's the estimate based on 800k last year), triple the number from a decade ago. You can set aside for a moment the question of what impacts this has on the housing market but as Risky Bisquick and others have said, much of this growth is from a conscious decision to expand education as an exploitative business that by and large treats both "customers" and employees like poo poo. Sure tenured profs, rear end. deans and some other staff are doing just fine at top universities, but the adjuncts and TAs that do an increasingly large fraction of the actual educating are not. I'm taking a wild guess that the situation is not any better at most colleges either. So what exactly is worth defending about this system?
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Dec 22, 2023 22:18
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A lot of people really complain about how many 1br or even bachelor units we're building. Yeah, we need more family sized units for sure, but all those small units are absolutely getting snapped up and serving a market as thirsty for housing as any other. Culture has changed, household formation has changed, people are staying single way longer and not everyone is rushing into marriage. Its another small ingredient in the housing shortage where comparing housing units vs raw population doesn't give the full picture. Households are getting smaller and have for a long time, which means a need for more per-capita units. A 2-person household can easily live in a 1br, but a 1 person household needs close to the same amount of space. Larger households tend to be more housing efficient as you've got like mom dad and 2 kids sharing a single kitchen and so on. So with falling household sizes, there's a need for even more housing than the raw population numbers would tell you.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:59
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Fidelitious posted:It's mostly people getting into long-term relationships later, and subsequently having children later or not at all. Adults today are also significantly less likely to be in a relationship in general, leading to more adults living alone, thus smaller household size. So I'm a bit confused by this, statscan says a household is: quote:a person or group of persons who occupy the same dwelling and do not have a usual place of residence elsewhere in Canada or abroad. The dwelling may be either a collective dwelling or a private dwelling. The household may consist of a family group such as a census family, of two or more families sharing a dwelling, of a group of unrelated persons or of a person living alone. Household members who are temporarily absent on reference day are considered part of their usual household. Say you've got a single detached house with two families of three and five persons respectively sharing the upper levels, and two students stuffed into semi-legal basement suites with or without a separate entrance and shared kitchen/dining/bathroom. How many dwellings and households is that?
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Dec 22, 2023 23:07
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Baronjutter posted:A lot of people really complain about how many 1br or even bachelor units we're building. Yeah, we need more family sized units for sure, but all those small units are absolutely getting snapped up and serving a market as thirsty for housing as any other. Culture has changed, household formation has changed, people are staying single way longer and not everyone is rushing into marriage. Its another small ingredient in the housing shortage where comparing housing units vs raw population doesn't give the full picture. Households are getting smaller and have for a long time, which means a need for more per-capita units. A 2-person household can easily live in a 1br, but a 1 person household needs close to the same amount of space. Larger households tend to be more housing efficient as you've got like mom dad and 2 kids sharing a single kitchen and so on. So with falling household sizes, there's a need for even more housing than the raw population numbers would tell you. Investors are buying them to rent them on airbnb
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Dec 22, 2023 23:11
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RBC posted:Investors are buying them to rent them on airbnb Yea I wouldn’t look at 1br sales as indicative of any sort of demand. People just need places to live, in commuting distance from their jobs. If this is what is being built, this is what people will live in.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:36
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Precambrian Video Games posted:There are probably ~900k study permit holders in Canada at the moment (I don't think the official numbers are out yet but that's the estimate based on 800k last year), triple the number from a decade ago. You can set aside for a moment the question of what impacts this has on the housing market but as Risky Bisquick and others have said, much of this growth is from a conscious decision to expand education as an exploitative business that by and large treats both "customers" and employees like poo poo. Sure tenured profs, rear end. deans and some other staff are doing just fine at top universities, but the adjuncts and TAs that do an increasingly large fraction of the actual educating are not. I'm taking a wild guess that the situation is not any better at most colleges either. So what exactly is worth defending about this system? I completely agree. If you talk to recent immigrants who were granted PR via student visas, it’s basically our way of milking them for money and making them take under-the-table jobs before we maybe, possibly, accept them as “real” immigrants.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:42
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I'm fine with shutting down exploitative HE fees or whatever, you won't find any argument from me there. My issue is it turning into a discussion about shutting down immigration because of flimsy causative links to the housing crisis when actual historical data does not prove this link out. I'm much more likely to put my money on interest rates being the primary causative factor in house prices, considering prices seem to skyrocket almost overnight everytime they get lowered, and also now that they're higher it just so happens to be what every vested interest in RE, including homeowners, are screaming about; not about foreigners outside of some particularly nasty circles on the right.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:47
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qhat posted:I'm fine with shutting down exploitative HE fees or whatever, you won't find any argument from me there. My issue is it turning into a discussion about shutting down immigration because of flimsy causative links to the housing crisis when actual historical data does not prove this link out. I'm much more likely to put my money on interest rates being the primary causative factor in house prices, considering prices seem to skyrocket almost overnight everytime they get lowered, and also now that they're higher it just so happens to be what every vested interest in RE, including homeowners, are screaming about; not about foreigners outside of some particularly nasty circles on the right. It’s not just about prices though, it’s about supply as well. No one wants “gently caress off we’re full” politics but people do need somewhere to live, newly arrived people included. What is the point of piling people 8 to an 1bdrm apartment in order to enrich landlords and exploitative college programs? Forcing people to work for cash for small business tyrants? Keep in mind, this isn’t turning Syrian families away, this is not accepting people into college programs. As it happens, my grandfathers both lived in this arrangement when they recently arrived, 8 to a 1bdrm. The difference was our economy was booming and it was a short stint before finding a more permanent place. I don’t think that’s the case anymore. In 2022, the vacancy rates for rental apartments were 1.9%, and 1.6% for condos, Canada-wide. People are giving 5-months worth of rent to landlords in advance in order to outbid other renters, at least in Toronto. Making things cheaper would help, but there is a level of demand for shelter that needs addressing.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:22
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Baronjutter posted:A lot of people really complain about how many 1br or even bachelor units we're building. Yeah, we need more family sized units for sure, but all those small units are absolutely getting snapped up and serving a market as thirsty for housing as any other. Culture has changed, household formation has changed, people are staying single way longer and not everyone is rushing into marriage. Its another small ingredient in the housing shortage where comparing housing units vs raw population doesn't give the full picture. Households are getting smaller and have for a long time, which means a need for more per-capita units. A 2-person household can easily live in a 1br, but a 1 person household needs close to the same amount of space. Larger households tend to be more housing efficient as you've got like mom dad and 2 kids sharing a single kitchen and so on. So with falling household sizes, there's a need for even more housing than the raw population numbers would tell you. Yeah given how household size is continuously shrinking I think we're still severely underbuilding 1 bedrooms. People complain that there's too many 1 bedrooms and they want more, but the fact that builders are making so many 1 bedrooms is because there's incredible demand for them. Why would builders spend the money building less profitable multi-bedrooms, even if there is demand for them, when there's an inexhaustible demand for a more profitable 1 bedroom product? All this is to say: holy poo poo let people build homes and meet the demand for one bedrooms. Mandate minimums of the other unit sizes too, but imo we're not going to see real price drops or competition in the multi-bed space until there are so many one bedrooms on the market that there's a surplus and that it's less obviously profitable to build them. IMO the shortage of one bedrooms started in the 1960s with the boomers and never ended. Due to moral backlash against womens rights and gay panic, society pushed back against apartments being built that were full of single bedroom units desired by (immoral!) single men and women. A bizarre reading of induced demand that if apartments don't exist then those darn single gay renters will disappear. Thus in the early 1970s we had a huge downzone of everything in order to push back against independent women and gay men, apartments were largely banned, and we've been in starvation mode ever since. The problem was buried and kicked down the road as people met the huge demand for single bedroom apartments by illegally converting their basements into suites and renting them out, and then cities finally capitulated and legalized that a few decades ago. Now we're finally at the end of that road and even with the basement suites and occasional creation of some apartment buildings in some undesireable ex-industrial area still not being enough to satisfy the huge demand for independent living. Now we finally have BC doing a mass forced upzone along transit and it looks like Ontario is going to be doing the same soon as well. RBC posted:Investors are buying them to rent them on airbnb When do we figure we can discount Airbnb as having any remarkable impact on anything going forward? Not saying Airbnb should be legal, more just pointing out that we've been bringing in regulations that have been continuously driving down the raw numbers of Airbnbs in operation. At some point it's not going to be relevant. When do we put out the Mission Accomplished banner and move on under the assumption that Airbnb is no longer the thing worth looking at? Or are we just gonna keep blaming Airbnb forever regardless of whatever regulations are passed. Can always just vaguely assert that people are breaking the law. BC just brought in laws effectively banning the "buy a condo and rent it out" use of Airbnb province wide, which is already clearly putting units on the market, and Vancouver banned that use case a while ago. Yes there have been plenty of scofflaws but even at a high water mark of what InsideAirbnb suggests it's like sub 2% of dwellings in CoV are on Airbnb. A more realistic look at the numbers, culling away various things to just look at those that are explicitly buying a condo just to rent out would bring the numbers closer to 2500-3000 units, which is ~1% and less. In neither scenario would adding those onto the market result in a healthy vacancy rate, so clearly there's not enough 1 bed condos regardless. IMO seems like Airbnb is already not really a dominant problem, and with BC's new regulations it's even less likely to be in the very near future. Femtosecond fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 02:02
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qhat posted:I'm fine with shutting down exploitative HE fees or whatever, you won't find any argument from me there. My issue is it turning into a discussion about shutting down immigration because of flimsy causative links to the housing crisis when actual historical data does not prove this link out. I'm much more likely to put my money on interest rates being the primary causative factor in house prices, considering prices seem to skyrocket almost overnight everytime they get lowered, and also now that they're higher it just so happens to be what every vested interest in RE, including homeowners, are screaming about; not about foreigners outside of some particularly nasty circles on the right. Are the low interest rates causing the longer waits at hospitals? Though I agree that interest rates are a large factor to the housing problem.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:54
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Airbnb is getting cracked down so hard in BC. It's opening up a few units, it's creating a class of insanely funny airbnb owner non-stop trying to fight the new laws and write sob story letters to the editor daily. Its also possibly brought down rents for smaller units. It's good.
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Dec 23, 2023 04:23
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Purgatory Glory posted:Are the low interest rates causing the longer waits at hospitals? This one would be easily solveable by allowing foreigners to actually practice their profession here without having to restart their training/education from scratch for a shot at a pointlessly, artificially constrained shot at Canadian med schools/residency That would involve dropping the hilarious pretense that Canadian Standards are too high to allow this sort of thing.
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Dec 23, 2023 11:32
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Precambrian Video Games posted:So I'm a bit confused by this, statscan says a household is: My reading of it is that this would constitute 1 private dwelling and 2 collective dwellings. If the basement suites have separate entrances then they become private dwellings but it doesn't change the count. So either way it's 3 households as household directly maps to dwelling.
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Dec 23, 2023 14:54
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mila kunis posted:This one would be easily solveable by allowing foreigners to actually practice their profession here without having to restart their training/education from scratch for a shot at a pointlessly, artificially constrained shot at Canadian med schools/residency I'll just quote myself from last time this came up in the thread: quote:Those barriers aren't (as far as I understand) just arbitrary; they exist for a reason. How do you propose the appropriate Canadian institutions evaluate the quality of medical degrees from each individual country around the world without creating a massive expensive infrastructure to do so? From everything I've heard/read, the system we have now is unfortunately the only cost efficient way to ensure that all foreign physicians operate to Canadian standards. It's not a matter of believing that Canadian standards are better than those abroad; it's a matter of ensuring consistency across the medical system to prevent problems. For example, a patient is being treated for a complex illness by multiple doctors. Doctor A, trained in India, prescribes a patient medication X, while doctor B, from Brazil where medication X isn't common, prescribes them medication Y. Doctor B didn't realise that medication X causes negative side-effects when taken with medication Y, and then you've got a problem. A comprehensive exam and/or standardized training is the only way to avoid these kinds of issues within a medical system. The artificial restrictions on admissions to med schools and residencies is bullshit though.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:19
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Nonetheless, BC introduced a bill to streamline foreign credential recognition, Ontario has a pilot program and I thought the feds said they were doing something but I don't know what or when.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:29
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Purgatory Glory posted:Are the low interest rates causing the longer waits at hospitals? Though I agree that interest rates are a large factor to the housing problem. It's the low pay, bad conditions and overwork op
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Dec 23, 2023 17:52
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MeinPanzer posted:I'll just quote myself from last time this came up in the thread: While I get the point overall, this specific scenario is the entire reason for pharmacists. Someone with several conditions that require different treatments will have doctors with little familiarity with each others' domains, and the pharmacist is meant to provide more horizontal knowledge and triple check for possible interactions.
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Dec 23, 2023 18:09
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Forgot to post these last week. Moffat was diving into the Ontario college entry numbers, and boy they are nuts. https://x.com/MikePMoffatt/status/1736448507697869053?s=20 The colleges are completely out of control. https://x.com/MikePMoffatt/status/1736474061234983139?s=20 End result of this is uhhhhh https://x.com/MikePMoffatt/status/1735667542423666869?s=20 Diploma mills running wild and government asleep at the wheel.
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Dec 23, 2023 18:34
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Am I reading that correctly? They're refusing around 50% of applications and still have those numbers? Meanwhile, the actual universities are refusing 10% and have under 10k students?
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Dec 23, 2023 18:42
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Femtosecond posted:Forgot to post these last week. Moffat was diving into the Ontario college entry numbers, and boy they are nuts. Those Conestoga numbers are bonkers. I looked up their 2018-2019 annual report and they had 16,500 students total, including 7000 international students.
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Dec 23, 2023 18:54
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Muscle Tracer posted:While I get the point overall, this specific scenario is the entire reason for pharmacists. Someone with several conditions that require different treatments will have doctors with little familiarity with each others' domains, and the pharmacist is meant to provide more horizontal knowledge and triple check for possible interactions. That's just one example--this obviously extends into every facet of medical treatment. If people haven't been trained in a standardized way, or checked to make sure they're knowledgeable about basic standards, then you will get mistakes and problems, and we generally consider those to be unacceptable in medicine.
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Dec 23, 2023 21:19
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Femtosecond posted:Forgot to post these last week. Moffat was diving into the Ontario college entry numbers, and boy they are nuts. That's insane. And as someone who has to deal with a lot of international students in a well-established university that does things the right way, there's no possible way those colleges are providing adequate support to those students. My bet is that most meet with an advisor once and are then basically left to figure things out on their own.
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Dec 23, 2023 21:22
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MeinPanzer posted:That's insane. And as someone who has to deal with a lot of international students in a well-established university that does things the right way, there's no possible way those colleges are providing adequate support to those students. My bet is that most meet with an advisor once and are then basically left to figure things out on their own. I know for a fact that at least one near the top (Seneca) has a bunch of programs for international students, including language improvement courses and acclimation/socialization stuff. They have a large number of international students because they’re just a huge college (about 100K students between full- and part-time); it would be interesting to see what the fraction of admissions were.
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Dec 23, 2023 22:06
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MeinPanzer posted:I'll just quote myself from last time this came up in the thread: Sounds like a horsehit excuse to me to be honest. I witnessed garbage like this first hand in my industry at my first job where we rejected candidates for not having "Canadian experience". Then I worked abroad for a bit and found Canadian standards were so far behind the global cutting edge that i had to work extra hard just to get on par with some of my fellow coworkers and feel a basic sense of job security The superiority complex in this frozen shithole run by smalltime morons is completely unearned
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Dec 23, 2023 22:44
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Subjunctive posted:I know for a fact that at least one near the top (Seneca) has a bunch of programs for international students, including language improvement courses and acclimation/socialization stuff. They have a large number of international students because they’re just a huge college (about 100K students between full- and part-time); it would be interesting to see what the fraction of admissions were. Good point--I'd like to see those figures as a proportion of overall admissions and then student body size. Still, in the case of Seneca, admitting 15k international students over 16 months into a body of about 100k students leads me to think that they're at a minimum putting a major strain on their admin, and are probably cutting corners somewhere. quote:Sounds like a horsehit excuse to me to be honest. I don't know what your line of work is, but I bet in it the consequences of making a mistake because you weren't trained or passed a comprehensive exam in the Canadian system isn't the same as in the medical sector. Again, it's not a matter of quality of education necessarily, but standard practices. As someone who has lived in several countries over the years and had friends in various aspects of the medical sector, there is a surprising amount of variation between countries in even basic aspects of practice!
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Dec 23, 2023 23:08
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If Canadian standards are so low, then why are international students flocking to Conestoga College in droves?
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Dec 23, 2023 23:26
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Google "fake Indian doctor":Google posted:There are numerous "Munna Bhais" or fake doctors throughout India. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), more than half of India's doctors are fake. In fact, a 2018 report revealed that almost 20 percent of all deaths during treatment in India involved the participation of a fake doctor.Nov 20, 2023
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Dec 24, 2023 01:48
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I am down to giving people better paths to professional certification. The tricky part is where professions are semi apprenticeship based for their training, which is basically all of the self regulated professions. Like, Canada regulates engineering by having certified university programs and then four years as a trainee where you can't sign off on anything. That four years is where you learn what the standard of practice is and how to reasonably figure out all the stuff that's expected but not documented and how to actually be the 'reasonable engineer' that the standard of care expects. Standards are different in different places and you can't just show up and be an expert but we also don't have any system to help people jump that gap. I cannot go do my type of engineering in Europe or whatever and actually know what the gently caress I'm doing without some level of help. I don't know local practices. I don't know local conditions. I don't know local laws and standards. That poo poo is hard to figure out and it's very much a 'you don't know that you don't know' situation. You will blindly walk yourself into a bad situation because you're doing it a way that was fine somewhere else. Jumping straight to being able to make the judgement calls is a terrible idea, but having to start from basically nothing is stupid. We also have no great way to verify training competency outside of our school system. Some other countries have testing systems because they don't have standardized curricula, but we don't. I think we generally lean on the US testing when we need to for outside people. Somebody has to actually spend time trying to close the legitimate gaps, because it's a solvable problem. But 'just accept all foreign designations' is a solution that doesn't really recognize what people in those professions are often expected to be doing with regards to standards of care, how that expectations varies, and how poorly defined that standard of care is. We need to find things to close the lack of apprenticeship if we expect people to actually be able to practice reasonably
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Dec 24, 2023 02:21
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Muscle Tracer posted:While I get the point overall, this specific scenario is the entire reason for pharmacists. Someone with several conditions that require different treatments will have doctors with little familiarity with each others' domains, and the pharmacist is meant to provide more horizontal knowledge and triple check for possible interactions.
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Dec 24, 2023 02:36
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Purgatory Glory posted:Google "fake Indian doctor": Wait if they're 50% of the doctors and 20% of the deaths what's going on with the real docs?
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Dec 24, 2023 02:43
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COPE 27 posted:Wait if they're 50% of the doctors and 20% of the deaths what's going on with the real docs? I wondered the same thing. But I think it could be explained by if somebody is seriously sick and going to die they will most likely wind up with a real doctor creating a death rate. Then the fake doctors see the people who aren't as seriously sick and winding up with the same death rate.
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Dec 24, 2023 02:53
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Femtosecond posted:Forgot to post these last week. Moffat was diving into the Ontario college entry numbers, and boy they are nuts. Not sure if TikTok is kosher here, but I just saw MillenialMoron call out Conestoga College in particular, having increased enrolment >1000% https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM6S1R61N/ He also touches on how TFW numbers relate to student visas in recent years.
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Dec 24, 2023 03:32
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RBC posted:Investors are buying them to rent them on airbnb Exactly. The size of the units is marginally relevant when the demand comes from dumb money renting these things out on AirBNB or speculating erroneously that prices will go up forever or that they can just decide how much rent their unit is going to bring in. The way to fix it is to remove the ability of stupid people to spend beyond their means on bad investments; this also removes the political need to bail them out when those investments inevitably fail.
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Dec 24, 2023 06:42
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McGavin posted:If Canadian standards are so low, then why are international students flocking to Conestoga College in droves? Probably because there's a billion+ Indians living in a country where there's intense competition for jobs, which drives people to seek opportunities abroad. I can assure you people aren't flocking to Canada because they heard McMaster only has 5 seats available for med school this year, which surely indicates Canadian Standards are really high and makes Canadian medicine the best in the world.
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Dec 24, 2023 10:11
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Purgatory Glory posted:Google "fake Indian doctor": Lol, the lengths people will go to to justify our lovely system is crazy. Googling that led to some LinkedIn article by a rando, but let's assume that's true: 1. It's not hard to filter by people who got their degrees from well renowned institutions. Believe it or not, other countries even in the third world have high quality universities that churn out highly skilled and qualified people. 2. There's countries other than India, there's regions other than asia, etc. Pretty big pool of people out there to choose from! 3. Even if you believe Canadian Standards are just Too drat High (lol), there should be a way to train and test people who come into it in a way that doesn't involve them having to restart their entire career and education from scratch and gets them up to speed relatively quickly. There's all sorts of ways to resolve the issues plaguing our medical system but they're not tried because the intent is not to have something that functions well for patients, but maintains an effective cartel that keeps the number of open positions as small as possible. Then, just like every other problem with our society (housing), the only route left is like that shithead above - blame immigrants for needing medical treatment and taking away treatment time from REAL human beings (ie not immigrants), because the number of available medical personnel is artificially constrained. mila kunis fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 10:31
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I wish I was as optimistic as the shithead above who thinks that infinity is the right number of immigrants. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 24, 2023 12:09
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