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Welcome to the Windows Megathread! This thread is intended for asking questions, giving advice, and general discussion on the Microsoft Windows series of operating systems. Is something broken? Tech support questions should not go in this thread! There's a dedicated subforum for that. Articles: Useful Windows Software - plushpuffin's list of Windows Freeware and other useful software Spyware FAQ - An abandoned but still relevant article on Spyware, Malware, Adware, and how to get rid of it. Threads: The Windows 7 Discussion Thread The Windows Home Server Anticipation/Discussion Thread Leveraging Group Policy News and Rumors: Microsoft Watch Neowin.net Blogs: Paul Thurrott's WinSuperSite Ed Bott's Windows Expertise The Microsoft Vista Team Blog The Microsoft Exchange Team Blog Information Sources: msexchange.org Daniel Petri's Windows IT Knowledgebase Windows Licensing FAQ Windows XP Product ID Guide 4sysops Forums: Microsoft Software Forum Network The Green Button - Windows Media Center Discussion Board MSDN Forums Posts: univbee's Windows Vista FAQ and Information Megapost General Windows FAQ What's the best way to keep my Windows system maintained and clean?
For keeping temporary files clean, Piriform's free CCleaner can't be beat - just watch out for the Yahoo! Toolbar option during install. Lastly, defragment your system drive every once in a while with Windows' built-in defrag program or Piriform's free Defraggler. One final note for Vista users: leave UAC on. It's fine if you need to disable it while you're first getting your PC set up, but flip it back on once you're done as it'll make Vista a more secure environment.
Disabling swap space won't actually stop swapping - Windows will still make a pagefile.sys. What you will end up doing by disabling swap is making sure that only private allocations (run-time data) cannot be written to disk. If the operating system decides it needs to free up more physical page frames, it's going to release copies of program text (executable code) instead. You may well end up swapping more than you did before, or the OS may swap things you need sooner, resulting in a performance drop. Writing out private allocations is often better, because many programs tend to allocate lots of memory and then not use it fully (or use it frequently). What would you rather have swapped out: data that is never or rarely used, or the executable code of the program you are running? Note for Windows Vista users: Microsoft has implemented a new feature called SuperFetch in Windows Vista that effectively accomplishes some of the purported benefits of disabling one's page file. SuperFetch prioritizes the programs you're currently using over background tasks and adapts to the way you work by tracking programs you use most often and preloading them into memory. With SuperFetch, background tasks still run when the computer is idle. However, when the background task is finished, SuperFetch repopulates system memory with the data you were working with before the background task ran. When you return to your desk, your programs will continue to run as efficiently as they did before you left. Thanks to Unabomber
Windows XP Professional x64 Edition: 128 GB Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit: 8 GB Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit: 16 GB Windows Vista Business 64-bit: 128+ GB Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit: 128+ GB You may have read some things about adding the /PAE switch to your boot.ini in order to force Windows to use that extra GB of RAM that you might have. This is usually a bad idea for a number of reasons. You can read a lot more about the 32-bit memory limit and Windows here: http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm
Method 2: Start Menu -> Run -> fsmgmt.msc fsmgmt.msc is in WINNT\system32, and you can make a shortcut to it. That would probably be the closest you'd get to emulating 9X's netwatcher. Thanks ChesterKitty and RotSnocket Cidrick fucked around with this message at Feb 27, 2009 around 15:50 |
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Microsoft Windows Vista This megapost covers all things Vista, from pre-purchase inquiries to troubleshooting common problems. EXCITING NEWS - Windows Vista Service Pack 2 available now direct from Microsoft! 32-bit 64-bit Notes about the above downloads: - You must have Service Pack 1 installed first. - These packages will also work on Windows Server 2008 (same codebase), although the Itanium 64-bit version needs a different installer. MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTION - READ THESE BEFORE ASKING SOMETHING Q: I bought a new computer and it came preinstalled with Norton and other stuff and is slow. Any way to install a "clean" Vista install using the same OEM license? A: Use PC Decrapifier, or read this. Q: Vista 32-bit came preinstalled on my new computer with 4 gigs of RAM. How can I "upgrade" to 64-bit? A: Legality-wise, you're probably out of luck for a direct switch. If your computer is new, you may want to make a special request with whatever company put your computer together. Possibly citing that you're unable to fully use what they sold you help, although this isn't a surefire thing. OEM keys will work on both 32- and 64-bit versions, but the "legality" of switching architectures on OEM copies is currently dubious. You'll have to use a 64-bit disc obtained via some other means, though, like another copy of Vista from a friend/other computer(remember, ANY 64-bit disc can install any version of Vista). If you have a retail copy,  will get you a 64-bit disc from Microsoft. You're unfortunately SOL for a legal Windows ISO download short of a TechNet or MSDN subscription.Q: I need startup programs with administrator credentials! A: Set them up in Task Scheduler to run with highest privileges at log on. Q: I REALLY need a folder in "Program Files" to be writeable. Any way to make this happen? A: Right-click the folder, go to the "security" tab and click on "Edit." Select "Users" from the "Group or user names" list and then check the "Full control" box under "Permissions for Users." Apply changes. Q: There are folders/files Vista won't let me delete! A: You probably don't have ownership of the file in question, meaning it was either created with a different user or a different OS (i.e. previous XP install or sifting through old files on a drive transferred from another PC). Go Properties/Security/Advanced and look through the different tabs, particularly "Owner." Make changes as appropriate. Q: Vista is using up like 1.4 gigs of RAM just sitting there and I have 2 gigs total! Why? A: Vista makes new, more efficient use of system resources via a new feature called SuperFetch, which takes advantage of resources that are just sitting idly by doing things like pre-loading your common programs so they'll open faster. Rest assured that these resources will be freed should another program demand them. For more info, consult these links. Q: What about this massive hard disk thrashing? I have nothing open! A: Vista is likely indexing your hard drives. The good news is that this does NOT necessarily mean you get reduced performance like in XP, though. Q: Vista gives me "COM Surrogate Errors" if I so much as look at it funny! It's scary! A: The most likely cause of this is the installation of a video codec that doesn't play nicely with Windows Explorer's renderer. Try uninstalling all your codecs and installing this codec pack. More detail and suggestions can be found here. Q: OMG Vista won't boot, saying it can't find WinLoad.exe or that there's no boot device! A: This is a weird glitch which happens when Vista is installed on a hard drive which isn't your primary and/or not your C drive. This is only triggered if you have external drives plugged in and powered. Turning them off when booting Vista will fix this. Some unexpected devices can trigger this, too, like printers with card readers. Q: Vista Home Basic/Premium won't find an HD I used in XP Pro! I demand answers! A: Dynamic Drives, which work on Windows XP Pro but not XP Home, have a similar edition limitation in Vista; specifically, they'll only work on Business, Enterprise and Ultimate Editions. As such, you have two options with that drive. Option 1 is doing a Windows Anytime Upgrade to the Ultimate Edition. Option 2 is backing up the data on that drive via some other means, then reformatting the drive as non-dynamic and copying everything back. PRE-PURCHASING Q: What is Windows Vista and why do I want it? A: Sounds like a perfect opportunity to glance over the Wikipedia article and its friend detailing the new features in Vista. Q: Is Vista ever going to be totally required and I'm going to be the uncool kid if I don't upgrade from Windows XP? A: From a general standpoint, Vista isn't going to be absolutely required for quite some time, assuming you can live without some of the new useability features. Keep in mind XP wasn't absolutely required in a general sense until about 2005, but launched in October 2001 and was a more clear-cut must upgrade since 98 and ME were crash-tastic, whereas XP's 5+ year entrenchment means it's a ridiculously stable OS and fewer people will bother upgrading, as this is the longest time Microsoft's been without a consumer-level OS upgrade. For gamers things get a little tricky, as DirectX 10 is Vista-only due to making radical changes to the graphics system (i.e. this isn't quite Mikkkro$$$oft deliberately making it XP-incompatible but more Vista being specifically built to do things XP can't). That being said, while a few games are enhanced by DirectX 10, all of those will still run on XP; major DirectX 10-only titles likely won't come until at least 2008 with titles like Alan Wake, which will additionally supposedly require a dual-core processor minimum (watching the game trailer should make it clear why).  Some games may offer other non-DX10-but-still-Vista-only enhancements, a prime example being Halo 2 PC, which offers an option called "tray and play," where the game starts immediately when you first insert the game disc and installs in the background, circumventing the need to install the game before playing and thereby ruining our most sacred heritage. So far, only two titles require Vista: Microsoft's Halo 2 and Microsoft's Shadowrun. Q: Everyone says Vista sucks! A: Let me direct you to the Mojave Experiment. Q: So how's gaming performance in Vista? A: Results vary depending on the game and specific configurations. By and large, performance is near-identical to XP if you have a little extra RAM (see next question). OpenGL performance could be worse than in XP, although with the age of most OpenGL programs, any Vista-capable computer should be getting 90fps+ anyway. For you benchmark whores, look here. Also note the recent "Games for Windows" branding on some boxes. Games are required to work on both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Vista to have that box (although, of course, specific configurations can still gently caress things up as always), as well as fully integrate themselves into Vista in other ways (Widescreen resolution support, "Games Explorer" integration) Q: Will my computer run Windows Vista? Will my PDA run Windows Vista? Will my toaster run Windows Vista? Should I buy a new computer/pda/toaster? A: Microsoft provides a number of tools to determine whether your computer is Vista-capable. Click this link to use Microsoft's Vista upgrade advisor. Finding out how WELL your system runs Vista is something else entirely, but for general impressions of performance with different amounts of RAM, gaming performance as well as what effect ReadyBoost has, consult this article. You should pretend system requirements for software RAM-wise are 512 megs higher than they actually are. A game that requires 512 megs and recommends 1 gig in XP should be read as "1 gig of RAM in Vista will perform like 512 megs in XP did." This article states that, due to ReadyBoost, 4 gigs is the performance sweet spot (versus 2 gigs, they claim, for XP), but that doesn't mean performance won't be good with less. Q: Any reason to NOT upgrade to Vista? A: Vista may not be such a good idea if you're running a particularly old system. Simple computer usage will be too slow with less than 1 gig of RAM, and if you game or do more advanced things you should have at least 2. Likewise, if you have a system with very specific hardware (things like expensive video editing boards) or software, these may not be as well supported. Finally, some older hardware has been phased out of support entirely, such as older game ports and things you'd likely find on an ISA card. Run the Microsoft Upgrade Advisor linked in the previous question. It may also not be suited for stubborn users very, very comfortable with XP. Don't fix what ain't broke. Also, Windows 7 is coming... Q: I don't have a DVD drive because I simply can't part with my 32x SCSI Plextor caddy CD-ROM drive. Does a CD version exist? Yes, but given how DVD drives are extremely cheap ($30 is probably over-paying) and any computer with a non-DVD drive is likely too old for Vista, make very sure your computer supports it and that it will actually benefit you. Now that that's out of the way, buy any Retail copy of Vista (NOT OEM) and then use the product key to order alternate media for from this link. The CD version is offered in 32-bit only, because if you have a 64-bit computer with no DVD-ROM drive then what the gently caress. OEM versions of Home Basic and Business are offered in CD-ROM versions, but availability is quite limited due to lack of demand, you loving dinosaur. Also, the CD versions are RTM no Service Pack copies, so make sure you update online once it's installed (not that you shouldn't otherwise).Q: Holy poo poo there are a billion different versions of Vista at my local store! What do I buy? I'm scared! A: There are four major versions of Vista in stores, possibly more depending on what area you live in. The Vista Editions Wikipedia article goes over the different editions in a fairly concise way (with pricing for several countries, too), and this article goes over the differences more thoroughly. Still confused? Here's my take, with box pictures (click for big). These are concept art but very closely match the Retail Full version boxes. - Home Premium Edition  This is what I'd say 80% of you want. It's only slightly more expensive than Home Basic and offers a much greater selection of software. It's comparable to XP Media Center Edition and is the ideal version for Home Theater PCs. Its perks over Home Basic include the Aero Glass theme, out-of-the-box DVD Playback, Windows Media Center (NOT the same thing as Windows Media Player, which IS included in every non-N version of Vista) and XBox360 connectivity. Note that it doesn't support dynamic hard drives like XP Pro does; if you have one, back it up and re-format it or consider the Business or Ultimate Edition. Given that XP Pro-to-Vista Home Premium is a popular upgrade path, be sure to read over the Business and Ultimate edition offerings to see if they aren't better suited to your needs. - Business Edition  This is what I'd say about 15% of you want. It's slightly more expensive than the Home Premium edition. It does NOT include the perks I listed above for Home Premium other than Aero Glass, so go read those again and make sure you can work around those shortcomings. What it does offer is server connection-related tools, so if you need a Remote Desktop server and other such perks this version might be better suited. It also supports dynamic hard drives. If your office has Vista, this is almost certainly the version they're using. - Ultimate Edition  This is what I'd say about 4% of you want. As its name implies, this is the big daddy of the lot, and is substantially more expensive than any of the other editions of Vista. You get absolutely everything, though, which includes ALL the Home Premium and Business features, as well as the Enterprise edition features like MUI (Multilingual User Interface) support, and also offers "Ultimate Extras" exclusively, the big one being Dreamscene, letting you have a movie file as your desktop. I recommend avoiding these versions unless you have very specific needs and/or budget constraints and Linux frightens you: - Home Basic  This is the only other version of Vista available worldwide and is the cheapest of the lot, slightly cheaper than Home Premium. However, it's significantly hamstrung, and is therefore not recommended. It might be OK for setting up a really basic computer on a budget (something for Grandma), but even then the extra $40 for Home Premium gets you a ton of perks like out-of-the-box DVD Playback and the Aero Glass theme, not to mention software for Grandma to organize all her pictures and make home movies, so unless you're having major financial difficulties (and if you are why are you considering upgrading to Vista at all?), pay the extra bit for Home Premium. - Home Basic N, Business N (European Union only) For those in Europe, Microsoft offers Home Basic N and Business N versions as per their antitrust settlement. They're the same as the non-N versions except stripped of certain Microsoft software like Windows Media Player. Unfortunately, a lot of third-party software expects Windows Media Player to be present and may not work without it. Sales figures (and therefore third-party support) for these versions are extremely low. Avoid. - K and KN versions (South Korea only) South Korea brought similar sanctions and has K and KN versions, equivalent to the non-N and N versions except they additionally provide web links to competing IM and Media Player software. - Starter Edition ("Emerging Markets" only *cough3rdworldcough*)  The "Vista Starter Edition" will only be sold in (and can only legally be used in) middle- and low-income nations as defined by the World Bank. It's even less featured than Home Basic, offered only in a 32-bit architecture and with several artificial limitations, which include a RAM cap, refusal to run on modern processors, cannot accept incoming network connections and only three GUI programs can be opened at once. They also have different desktop backgrounds available (possibly due to royalties). - Enterprise Edition This is a special, between Business and Ultimate version of Vista designed specifically for Enterprise use, and is NOT sold in retail stores. Q: How does licensing for Windows Vista work? A: One license of Windows Vista may be installed on ONE computer at any given time. You have unlimited reinstalls, and it can be installed on any hardware combination. (It won't lock you out if you change a ton of components or even try a different computer, like XP did). Upgrade and OEM versions have additional restrictions: see below. Q: So there are these cheaper Upgrade and OEM versions. How do those work? A: The Upgrade editions of Vista legally require you to own some prior version of Windows no earlier than Windows 2000 (those of you still on 3.1/95/98/ME need a full version). Note that unlike previous upgrade editions of Windows, which could be installed "clean" by simply popping in a previous Windows install disc when asked, Vista can only install with an upgrade key by launching setup from within an existing Windows install (i.e. NOT by booting from the CD). Also, doing this will invalidate the product key for the Windows XP installation it's launched from so it can no longer be activated, and the EULA forbids "dual-booting" with the previous license, since the upgrade "overwrites" the old license. There is a workaround to this, though, which involves first installing Windows Vista without a product key (select the edition you purchased when prompted) and then running the upgrade installation from within this first "fresh" Vista install and entering your product key this second time (note: it may also be possible to enter the upgrade key later, although specifics are unclear), and then deleting the "Windows.old" folder in your root directory. While this technically allows you to install without owning a prior version of Windows, this is a violation of Microsoft's EULA. This method is for those of you upgrading and who own a qualifying prior version of Windows only. Upgrade boxes are the same as full retail boxes except they have an added box of text in the upper-left corner (see below picture)  OEM Editions OEM copies are special full versions designed to be sold with new computers and come in a basic package with only the manual and disc like this:  Most stores require you to purchase some combination of base computer components (motherboard/processor/RAM) before they'll sell it to you, although Microsoft's become more lenient with Vista, and some stores like Newegg sell them on their own. These editions are identical to full versions except don't come in a spiffy box and have more limited technical support options with Microsoft (i.e. the "system builder," you, is responsible for the technical support, not Microsoft). Also, you're not allowed to move the Vista license to a different PC; it "lives and dies" with the system it's first installed on. Note that this article basically says you CAN transfer the license...sort of. Microsoft's apparently been lenient on transfers as long as you correctly indicate that it's only installed on one PC when you call them, the only question they ask. You might want to have a "catastrophic hardware failure" story ready if needed, though. Also keep in mind OEM copies are by nature ONE bit architecture only (32-bit or 64-bit). While you can install a different bit version with the same product key without legal problems, you can't order alternate media for them, so your alternate install disc will have to come from another copy of Vista. Q: I run a big-rear end business with many, many computers and are you loving kidding me no corporate DVD I have to activate everything rahr A: Large-scale businesses can obtain special versions of Business and/or Enterprise editions of Vista in 32- and 64-bit that are "keyless" (therefore very easy to install) and instead connect to a server that runs special Microsoft licensing software. Said licensing software is programmed with the number of permitted Vista licenses and distributes them to computers that are plugged into the network. Computers must connect to this server at least once every six months, so long stints for laptops a few months away from the office are fine. Longer-term leaves should have normal retail or OEM editions. Q: What about we poor students? Do we get Academic Editions? A: Yes. Many academic computer stores offer Vista fairly cheaply, at prices like $70USD/$100CAD for Home Premium upgrade. Of course, you have to be a registered student, and legally speaking the license isn't eligible for use in a business context (i.e. if you use your computer to make money somehow). I don't believe there's a software-level check or limitation, though. Q: Any other discounts? A: Not anymore. Two deals, Express Upgrade and the Family Discount Promotion were offered, but they've since expired. Q: Holy poo poo the version of Windows I bought isn't enough! Am I screwed? A: Actually, no. Using the "Windows Anytime Upgrade" feature, you can pay the full retail version difference in price to move to an upgraded version of Windows, from Home Basic to either Home Premium or Ultimate, and from Home Premium or Business to Ultimate. This option can be found in the Control Panel to buy direct from Microsoft. Note that it may not be available in all areas currently; those of you in Australia or New Zealand may want to double-check. Q: OK, so how does Windows Anytime Upgrade work? A: Note: Anytime Upgrade is NOT RECOMMENDED if you intend to regularly reinstall Vista! See the bolded part below. After making the purchase online, you'll be E-Mailed and/or given a download link to a special key file. The key file, when opened, will prompt you for your Vista install media and then reinstall Vista, this time with the version you just upgraded to. Note the following warnings: - This essentially reinstalls Windows, so you may have to fix some things when coming back, and expect the upgrade to take in the neighborhood of an hour. - You're not given a product key to use in any way, although you can fish it out of the E-Mailed file with a text editor or use Magic Jellybean keyfinder after your installation. - This key is NOT a normal upgrade key. You can ONLY use it when installing from an ACTIVATED copy of the version of Vista you're installing from. Unfortunately, this essentially means that should you decide to reinstall, you'll have to install/activate your old version of Vista (which likely means calling Microsoft) and then upgrade install/activate to the new version of Vista (which likely means calling Microsoft. Again.) This effectively doubles the fresh install time, since you have to install twice. Make sure you're comfortable with that scenario before Anytime upgrading. Q: Anytime Upgrade sucks because I'm reinstalling Vista daily. Can I exchange? A: Actually, you can. Call 1-800-360-7561 (U.S. number; if you're in Canada, the number is 1-800-933-4750). This is Microsoft's replacement parts division. Tell them you lost your Anytime Upgrade key. While they may start by telling you it's Digital River's responsibility, not theirs (wtf?) they will offer a $30 replacement if you can fax them proof of purchase of the Anytime Upgrade that they can then verify. After faxing them the info from your E-Mail receipt and having it checked out, they'll call you back and proceed to set up an order. What you receive in the mail is a basic cardboard envelope containing a full retail, non-upgrade edition of whatever version of Vista your Anytime Upgrade is (no upgrading required, key will work on a vanilla install). Q: What about 32-bit vs. 64-bit? A: Unlike Windows XP 64-bit which had very limited software and hardware support, Windows Vista offers far greater 64-bit compatibility. In fact, for hardware/software to feature a Windows Vista logo (and for PC games to have the "Games for Windows" box), they're required to work in the 64-bit versions of Vista (note: not necessarily take advantage of the 64-bit processor, it just has to work). Also, 32-bit by nature has a RAM cap of 4 gigabytes on any OS (including Linux and others), and it's absolutely required to use 4 gigs of RAM or more (see Cidrick's first post for more info). That being said, the 64-bit version of Vista doesn't allow unsigned drivers, and some hardware (particularly older hardware) may have issues. However, if you can get the 64-bit version of Vista working with all your hardware, this is a more future-proof solution. Oh, and you need a 64-bit processor, of course, such as AMD Opteron, Athlon64, or Intel Core 2 Duo. To elaborate on the unsigned drivers aspect, this means that there's no way to "engineer" yourself some drivers if something of yours doesn't work, including any software that uses drivers as a solution (such as Daemon Tools, which does have a Vista 64-bit version, and some forms of PC Game copy protection). This means no unofficial drivers like the kX project and Omega drivers. Also, some companies don't support 64-bit at this time, so if you use their driver-requiring products you may wish to research and test first. There's a way to go into "Test Mode" in Vista 64-bit to allow loading unsigned drivers, but this puts "test mode" in every corner of the desktop. If you really want XP's level of driver freedom, stick with the 32-bit edition. Note that the connector software for Windows Home Server is 32-bit only; a 64-bit version is being worked on and will probably be downloadable early 2008. There is a workaround to install the 32-bit version without the backup feature, though. For more information, check here for a direct Vista 32-bit/64-bit comparison. Unfortunately, contrary to previous statements, the only edition of Vista that comes with both 32-bit and 64-bit builds is Ultimate; all other retail editions come with a 32-bit DVD only, but you can order either 32-bit CDs (for those unable to read DVDs) or a 64-bit DVD at the cost of $10USD/$13CAD+tax from this link. 1.) This disc ships keyless and is installed using the product key in the original retail case. 2.) The website ONLY accepts Retail copy keys, NOT OEM keys. You CAN install and activate a 64-bit Windows using a 32-bit OEM version's key, but you'll have to get a 64-bit disc some other way. 3.) You can only order the 32-bit CDs OR the 64-bit DVD, NOT both. 4.) You can only order once per product key.* * - I had a problem ordering a copy once and it didn't let me use my key again on the site, but I did call Microsoft sales and get things sorted out. You might be able to do likewise to get multiple copies, I'm not sure. Q: Any hardware/software incompatibilities with Windows Vista? A: Due to a complete overhaul of how Vista handles hardware compared to XP, many devices which worked fine in Windows XP may have reduced performance or missing features, particularly in video and sound card departments. Some companies have stopped supporting older hardware entirely for Vista, and several programs require updates. Some products don't have their full range of features in Vista, either. Both ATI and Nvidia drivers are much more simplified in Vista than in XP, and some features, such as Nvidia's CinemaView hardware movie acceleration, don't work at all. Sound cards suffer as well, especially Creative's cards. Vista's new sound system doesn't support EAX at all, so games that haven't been updated to use OpenAL surround sound will be stereo only. Creative Labs has a special wrapper driver called ALchemy, which is a free download for X-Fi users and $10 for Audigy card users. Note that those of you shopping for a new card may wish to consider other companies such as AuzenTech for your needs due to some recent driver douchebaggery on Creative's part. Dynamic Drives have the same restriction they had in XP (works on Pro/Business editions, not on Home editions), but several people upgrade from XP Pro to Vista Home Premium. If you have a dynamic drive, convert it BEFORE installing Vista if you'll be installing a Home edition. If you must keep it as a dynamic drive, then you'll need either the Business or Ultimate edition of Vista. Also, those of you using multiple graphics cards may be out of luck (until Windows 7 which will supposedly fix this), as there are added restrictions on this (and this is NOT indicated in any of Vista's compatibility checks). This was a huge compatibility issue in Windows XP. This does NOT mean that things like SLI don't work, though (it does). It's just if you have things like a cheap secondary PCI card from a different company than your primary card for doing cheap multiple monitor setups. For more info on why, consult these articles. Some configs that work in XP will NOT work in Vista, unfortunately, and will require changing at least one card. In a general sense, any software that does things on a hardware and/or driver level will need at least an update, and may no longer work at all. Q: Is there a list of specific incompatibilities? A: While by no means complete, here is an off-the-top-of-my-head list of things to watch out for. 32-bit only: - Windows Live One-Care (which is worse than free anti-virus anyway) - Cisco VPN (Cisco hates 64bit and won't release a supported version, but Xenomorph's site has a workaround) - Gametap's Windows and 8-bit catalog, as their encryption driver is 32-bit only; being worked on. Works with problems: - Most Adobe CS2 software will work but not register that the software updated correctly, and may have display/refresh errors. Imageready CS2 is particularly wonky, and Encore DVD won't work at all. Fixes to the existing versions will NOT be provided, so you must upgrade to CS3. Unfixable - Hardware no longer supported by vendor: - Sound Blaster Live! and any other pre-Audigy Creative Labs sound card. - Older LogiTech webcams (e.g. QuickCam Messenger, anything whose XP driver version is 8.x) Other than these, for the most part, any relatively recent computer shouldn't have any real problems with it, and may in fact, run better, especially for non-gaming tasks. Q: What about all this DRM stuff I've been hearing so much about? A: By and large, these apply to technology that was also limited in XP, such as HD-DVD and Blu-ray playback. Microsoft basically had to either provide the DRM-based solution or not be able to support these technologies at all. There are no new restrictions; most CD/DVD ripping programs work in Vista as they did in XP without any special intervention. The latest Daemon Tools has 32- and 64-bit versions that work in Vista, and for all-region DVD playback, SlySoft's AnyDVD works on both 32- and 64-bit versions of Vista. INSTALLATION AND SETUP Q: How different are the retail discs from each-other and TechNet/MSDN ISOs? A: Excluding Volume License customers, there is only one type of Vista disc for each bit architecture (one 32-bit disc, one 64-bit disc). ISOs from TechNet/MSDN are identical to the retail, OEM and upgrade discs, as well as the Express Upgrade discs. The only thing that changes between editions is the type of product key issued. Even though the discs are labeled according to version and license type, the actual data on them is identical; the installer auto-detects which Vista you purchased based on what key you enter. ANY Retail or OEM disc can install ANY version of Vista except for Enterprise. Q: So what's this I hear about being able to install without a key for 30 days? A: Note: THIS IS NOT A PIRACY SOLUTION! Its main use would be to see if everything works before activating or if you have your install disc but can't find your product key right away for some reason. Basically, if you don't enter a Product Key during installation, after a few prompts asking if you're sure about not entering a key you'll be presented with a list of the versions of Vista (7 on the 32-bit, 6 on the 64-bit). After selecting an edition Vista will install normally, and will run but will occasionally nag you about activating, and if you fail to do so within 30 days Vista will run in the horrific Reduced Functionality Mode, where you'll only get your default browser and only for an hour at a time. Note that whatever key you enter later MUST MATCH the version you install exactly; if you misrepresent the version you purchased in any way, even if the key you enter is for a higher-end version of Windows (ex: entering an Ultimate key into a Home Premium keyless install) it'll refuse the key. If you own an upgrade key, you still have to do the installation as you normally would (i.e. upgrading from an existing Windows install) but you may be able to enter a key later in this case. Not 100% sure on this, though. Q: Oh no! Leprechauns are holding my Vista Product Key hostage and my 30-day keyless install is almost up! What do I do? A: There is a Microsoft-sanctioned way to reset the countdown, but this will only work three times, giving a total of 120 keyless Vista days, which should be plenty to negotiate with the leprechauns. After that, if the leprechauns still have your key you either have to enter it or format your PC. Run a command prompt as Administrator and run "slmgr -rearm," followed by a reboot. Q: OK, I bought Vista and I'm ready to install. Upgrade install or clean install? A: The general consensus is to install clean if you can help it, as upgrade installations have a nasty habit of keeping bits of the old OS around to bog down/crash the new install. Also, a clean install will backup all your old files into a "Windows.old" folder in your root directory, which can take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours depending on the number of files you have. Finally, Vista's installer does have partitioning tools, which can be found by clicking on "Advanced" on the screen asking which partition to install to. Regardless of what you do, make sure all important files are backed up, particularly if you're going to be resizing/moving partitions, as this is exteremely dangerous. Also note that not all installations can be upgrade-installed; notably, XP Pro installations cannot be upgraded to Home Premium (since XP Pro's equivalent is Vista Business and a Home Premium upgrade is seen as a "downgrade"). Consult this table for upgrade eligibility. Q: I simply cannot WAIT to try Vista, but I don't want to get rid of my XP installation! WHAT DO I DO!?! A: Before going any further, Microsoft's EULA says you can only do this if you buy a full retail copy of Vista, as upgrade editions technically invalidate your ownership of the previous version. If you want to dual-boot between Vista and XP, the process is pretty easy.* In Windows XP, use a partition program (I use PartitionMagic or GParted, there are lots of other options as well) to make a new 'primary' NTFS partition of 20 gigs or more for Vista. (You can also use a seperate hard drive, of course). Then, boot with the Vista install CD, and install to the new partition. Vista will automatically detect your XP install, and add it to the bootloader. Everything will be intact, and life will be great! IT'S LIKE MAGIC *When messing with all this partition crap, make sure to backup your essential files. PARTITIONING BY NATURE IS DANGEROUS, AND THINGS CAN EASILY GO AWRY WITHOUT ANY INDICATION BEFOREHAND. Should you decide to get rid of Vista at a later date, there is a great little program called Vista Boot Pro that allows you to manage your Vista installation. Boot into XP, and remove the Vista bootloader using this program. Then reformat the Vista partition, and add it back to your XP partition. Done! Q: Any more info about the partitioning tools included with Vista? A: This link discusses copying a partition to a new hard drive using tools included in Vista's installation, and this link explains all the different command-line switches for the ROBOCOPY command. Q: Holy poo poo installing isn't working what do I do? A: Although the install generally requires little user interaction, some configs can gently caress it up, particularly when doing upgrade installs. Note that installing without formatting will move all your files to "Windows.old," so large hard drives with lots of files will take a while as all these files get moved; be patient. Also, make sure the media you're installing from is in good shape and/or a solid brand of DVD-R if going that route, as that can potentially solve problems related to trouble reading the installation media. Also, give the install a second attempt at installing. If you still can't complete the installation successfully, Shift+F10 during install will give you a Command Prompt, which can allow extra troubleshooting options such as acquiring the installation log file, which may help determine what's causing the installation to fail. POST-INSTALLATION Q: Software X doesn't work right OH GOD MY COMPUTER IS BROKEN! A: The majority of software problems can be fixed by updating the software in question and/or running it as administrator, particularly errors related to programs attempting to write data in the "Program Files" directory, although symptoms may not be clear and could range from "disk may be full" error messages (e.g. Magic: The Gathering Online) to software believing it's somehow been tampered with (e.g. Battlefield 2142's Punkbuster system). To run software as administrator, right-click its shortcut or EXE file and go "Run as administrator" (it'll have a four-color shield left of it, indicating you'll get a UAC prompt for it). After confirming the UAC prompt, the software will run with admin priviledges. If this fixes your problem and you'd like to make it run as administrator each time, right-click the shortcut/EXE and go "Properties," then under the "Compatibility" tab check the bottom checkbox under "Privilege Level" called "Run this program as an administrator." Note that you'll get the UAC prompt each time you attempt to run the software if UAC is still enabled. Some software may work better if they're not in the "Program Files" directory, too; if your software is a download which offers a standalone ZIP as an option (as in the ZIP contains the program, not its setup files), getting that and unzipping it somewhere other than "Program Files" may work properly without having to deal with UAC. Other options exist in the "Properties" menu mentioned earlier, too. A good thing to try if slowdown/stuttering is an issue is to "Disable desktop composition" under "Settings," which will disable the Aero theme whenever you run the software in question (don't worry, it'll automatically turn back on when you exit the program). Some software will automatically do this, though, and this has no effect on full screen programs; Vista by design automatically disables Aero when running an application full-screen. Other settings to try are "Run this program in compatibility mode for Windows XP (Service Pack 2)" or whatever version of Windows your software was designed for. If your program STILL doesn't work, check this compatibility list. The list is obviously not comprehensive, but should give you a general idea as to if your program is hopeless or not. Q: Piece of hardware X doesn't work OH GOD MY COMPUTER IS BROKEN! FOR REALS! A: The first thing you should do is make sure Windows Update has run its course, as several new/updated drivers not in Vista's final build have found their way there. If your hardware's not there (or the piece of hardware in question is what you need to get online in the first place  ) you can check this site, which links to thousands of drivers not on Windows Update. Keep in mind that some drivers focus on chipset instead of manufacturer (e.g. some D-Link products use technology from another company called Altheros), so do your homework on that. Finally, make sure your hardware is actually still being actively supported by the company, so replace your Voodoo3.Q: My software used to save files in its "Program Files" directory and I can't find them! Help! A: Vista provides a special overlap folder that stores changed information in the "Program Files" directory to simplify backups. These can be found in "%root%:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore" and then in either "Program Files" or "Program Files (x86)" depending on which Windows version you're running and the software in question. For reference, most people's root folder is C:\, [USERNAME] is your Windows username, and AppData is a hidden folder, so you might have to enable "Show hidden files and folders" to see it. Q: Codecs! I need my codecs! What codec packs work? A: People have reported success with most recent releases of popular codec packs such as ffdshow and CCCP, and a new Vista-specific codec pack can be found here. VLC Media Player also works fine. Q: Holy poo poo what is this screen-burning UAC Prompt bullshit? Get it out! A: This is Microsoft's answer to the security problems in XP; basically, anytime a piece of software or action attempts a system change you get this prompt to make sure it's not an automated process trying to execute itself (which is how the major viruses and malware got around on XP). The "screen refresh" is because Vista switches to what's called a "secure desktop;" other applications can't access this desktop, theoretically preventing malicious software from simulating mouse actions or keystrokes and automatically selecting "allow" for you. Disabling UAC disables the Temp folder and therefore breaks certain installers and software. Instead of disabling UAC, changing its behavior is generally preferred (as long as you're careful). Business and Ultimate Edition users can type "Local Security Policy" in the start search bar, run it, accept the UAC prompt, then go "Local Policies\Security Options" and peruse the "User Access Control" options at the bottom. Note that any changes from the default effectively makes your computer vulnerable to some form of theoretical attack, so tread carefully. If the screen flash/refresh when a UAC prompt occurs is too jarring for you, disable "Switch to the secure desktop when prompting for elevation." This will theoretically expose you to software simulating keystrokes and choosing allow for you, though. Preferred to disabling UAC outright is changing "Behavior of the elevation prompt for administrators in Admin Approval Mode" to "Elevate without Prompt." This will effectively eliminate UAC popups and won't actually run your software as admin unless it specficially asks for the elevation. It's identical to having UAC on and it click allow each time the UAC Prompt would pop up. For Home Edition users, you can download and use goon-made XdN Tweaker. Otherwise, you'll have to go through the registry to make the above changes, in "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\System" The above options are: "ConsentPromptBehaviorAdmin"=dword:00000000 "ConsentPromptBehaviorUser"=dword:00000001 "PromptOnSecureDesktop"=dword:00000000 0 is false and 1 is true. Q: I know disabling UAC would gently caress too much poo poo up, but it comes up waaay too often. Anything I can do to fix this? A: Many people did things in Windows XP that could be considered unsafe (e.g. manupulating files in the "Windows" and "Program Files" directory). Vista and UAC attempt to encourage safer computer practices, so depending on how you did things in Windows XP, Vista might not like you too much and nag you with tons of UAC prompts. Here's a rundown of common UAC situations and workarounds. - Manipulating files in Windows Explorer Some people get several prompts while doing things like renaming, deleting and moving files. While this is to be expected if you're dealing with system files, this "protected" flag expands to other realms as well; manipulating files in system directories, such as the Windows, Program Files and Root directories fall under this category. You should consider working with your files somewhere else, including your User folder or another drive. If you absolutely must frequently manipulate files in sensitive locations, run Windows Explorer elevated (as an Administrator); that way you only get prompted once, when you initially open Windows Explorer, and not every time you do something to a file. - Every time a specific program is launched Elevated privileges are required for any program that manipulates system files, including system utilities and antivirus/malware programs. If your software doesn't fall under this category, it may help if it's installed somewhere other than the "Program Files" directory; if your software is offered in a "Stand-alone ZIP file" package, it's recommended to set up the program from there. It's also possible the program may have somehow been confused into needing elevated privileges when it really doesn't; right-click its EXE and make sure the "Run this program as administrator" under the "Compatibility" tab is unchecked, and don't forget to check "Show settings for all users" as well. Q: I disabled UAC/changed its settings and now Windows Security Center won't shut up! A: In Windows Security Center, the bottom option on the left panel is "Change the way Security Center alerts me." Here, click "Don't notify me and don't display the icon (not recommended)." Note that this will also disable Vista's messages pertaining to anti-virus/firewall problems (deactivated, out of date etc.) so make sure you stay on top of those. Q: What's this ReadyBoost thing I've been hearing about? A: Basically, it lets you use a USB 2.0 storage device for paging, which can improve system performance, especially those with minimal RAM (512-1024 megs). This won't work with just any USB storage solution, though; it has to have a certain performance rating (this goes for your ports too). Consult these links for more info. Note that only one device can be used for paging at a time, and 4 gigs is the max space that can be used due to FAT limitations. (256 megs is the minimum) The performance gains from ReadyBoost are negligible unless you have a very low amount of RAM (1 gig or less). univbee fucked around with this message at May 27, 2009 around 01:16 |
| # ? Nov 12, 2007 03:23 |
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 03:23 |
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Repost from the end of the last thread: I'm trying to write a gadget but I'm having trouble getting the fucker installed. I have three files: test.html, gadget.xml, and icon.png zipped in a folder named desktop.gadget. Installing that produces the folder desktop.gadget in the gadgets folder, however when I go to add the gadget to the sidebar, it's not in the list of gadgets. Any reason why? gadget.xml points to test.html and icon.png.
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 09:10 |
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I thought I'd post this question here rather than starting a whole new thread, plus these things are designed to work with Vista in mind so its sorta relevant Has anyone had any experience using the new Microsoft keyboard/mouse combos? Specifically the Wireless Entertainment Desktop 7000 and 8000. I looked hard at the 8000 when it was still called the 'Ultimate Keyboard', it seemed a pretty decent piece of kit, but having seen the price I'm a little put off - over £150 ($300 ish) is a lot more than I was expecting. I like the price of the 7000 better (£90) but the lack of a dock for the keyboard is irritating, the thing that pisses me off about this wireless generation is the need for supplies of AA batteries. I'd prefer a solution where I can just have the keyboard recharge when I'm not using it. So, is the 8000 worth splashing the cash on, or is there a cheaper alternative thats more along the lines of what I'm looking for? I don't care for fancy backlights or special buttons that call up whatever program, basically a wireless keyboard/mouse without the need for seperate AA batteries would do me fine.
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 11:33 |
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I know there was talk in the last thread about backup options in Vista. Turns out that the backup utility that comes natively is a nerfed up piece of poo poo that can only serve to piss you off if you want to do anything except backup the entire profile directory. Well, you can get ntbackup on Vista if you have a machine to pull the files from. http://www.petri.co.il/installing_w...ndows_vista.htm All I can say is thank loving god.
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 13:12 |
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Mr Crucial posted:I thought I'd post this question here rather than starting a whole new thread, plus these things are designed to work with Vista in mind so its sorta relevant Well, I think that's about it if you really must have the dock. Or you could buy rechargeable batteries for under $20 (it's probably half that in pounds over at your side of the pond).
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 14:55 |
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how do i add a second audio track (.mp3) to an .avi, so i can choose which one to play in vlc media player?
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 18:46 |
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Can anyone recommend a commnad-line SFTP client for windows. By command line, I mean scriptable from the command line; I need to push a file coming out of SSIS via SSH.
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 21:13 |
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wwb posted:Can anyone recommend a commnad-line SFTP client for windows. By command line, I mean scriptable from the command line; I need to push a file coming out of SSIS via SSH.
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 21:18 |
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According to multiple sources, Microsoft pushed out a beta of "Internet TV" to Media Center in late September. I have Vista Ultimate, which comes with Media Center, but I don't have the "Internet TV" option. I have all the latest Windows Updates. What's going on?
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 22:03 |
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whats the best 3rd party defragger for vista?
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 22:08 |
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Stryfe posted:whats the best 3rd party defragger for vista? http://www.kessels.com/JkDefrag/ Some other defraggers are listed here: http://donnedwards.openaccess.co.za...ut-winners.html and jkdefrag came out on top out of all the free ones. Xanar fucked around with this message at Nov 12, 2007 around 22:45 |
| # ? Nov 12, 2007 22:41 |
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Sometimes, when I try to take a screenshot in XP, when I go to paste I get a "Not enough memory" error in some programs, and "Unable to get data from clipboard" error in others. What's up?
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| # ? Nov 12, 2007 23:24 |
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Alowishus posted:putty's pscp should do the trick. Thanks for the pointer.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 00:31 |
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 hmm, hadn't even noticed...  well I'll be damned... they've got commercials, but there is a decent selection. Just Home Premium here, maybe they roll it out in phases or something? edited for table breakage. Fralcon fucked around with this message at Nov 13, 2007 around 01:44 |
| # ? Nov 13, 2007 01:37 |
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I'm back on XP yet again after yet another failed attempt to upgrade to Vista. This time it was the dual-monitor bug that I and about a billion other people reported to MS and Nvidia around RC2. Once you set up a second monitor and then reboot your primary display is corrupted to the point of being unusable. How have they not fixed that in the year since it was first reported? I don't have time to be chasing down fixes for year old bugs that don't exist in XP. I'm beginning to think I should just skip Vista and wait until the next version of Windows. I install Vista every three months like a moron, believing that surely by NOW they'll have fixed the display bugs that were reported before it even went RTM. I don't even know whether it's MS or Nvidia at fault.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 01:43 |
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Fralcon posted:
Yeah, I don't have this. 
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 01:48 |
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I'm giving my older computer to my parents to use as a family computer. My older sister is competent with computers, so I'm making her as the admin on the computer and then I'm going to have separate users (my mom and dad). Since my mom/dad only use it for internet, i wanted to make a giant firefox icon in the middle of the desktop. Is there any program to do this that won't affect the other users (ie. my sister)?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 02:24 |
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I know this is an incredibly retarded question, but I can't seem to find the answer: how do I know what graphics card I have? I use XP, by the way.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 04:21 |
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Factor Mystic posted:Yeah, I don't have this. Did you go install it?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 04:37 |
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delirious pancake posted:I know this is an incredibly retarded question, but I can't seem to find the answer: how do I know what graphics card I have? I use XP, by the way. Display tab
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 04:49 |
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Maneki Neko posted:Did you go install it? Elaborate, please. I thought it was an automatic update for Media Center. Is there something separate I need to install. I'm serious, I've searched around on how to make this work to no avail.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 05:05 |
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I just recently upgraded to Vista again after the performance patch was released, but one thing that's been bugging me is that the safely remove hardware function doesn't anymore show the confirmation by a userfriendly tray notification but by an annoying dialog in the middle of the screen. Is there a trick to switch this behavior back to how it used to be with XP?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 10:52 |
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LooseChanj posted:Sometimes, when I try to take a screenshot in XP, when I go to paste I get a "Not enough memory" error in some programs, and "Unable to get data from clipboard" error in others. What's up? Maybe its the "Handles" voodoo we were talking about in this thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=2682079
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 14:59 |
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Xenomorph posted:Maybe its the "Handles" voodoo we were talking about in this thread: That's the kind of stuff I find fascinating enough to waste hours of time with, but I don't think it's the problem I'm talking about. Actually, right after I posted that I *was* able to paste into mspaint, and gimp will take screenshots as well. I guess it's a problem with older apps, I'm still clinging to really really ancient versions of LView and PSP.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 15:38 |
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Can someone help me write a set of batch files that I can execute via launchy to control XBMC via the webserver? The commands that the default webserver uses look like this: code:code:
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 20:22 |
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Are they any good file managers for XP that will act like Vista with Favorites on the sidebar?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 20:35 |
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VISTA I'm trying to record some audio from my DS and I connect it through the line in port on my soundcard. I can hear it just fine through my headphones. The problem is, I can't seem to record it. The built in sound recorder doesn't record sound, neither does Audacity or even Creatives own sound recording utility. I remember doing this in XP and it worked without a hitch, I've tried everything in Vista to try get this to work, including using the microphone port instead of line in. Is anyone getting the same problem and is there any way around this?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 21:03 |
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What's your default recording device set to? Dunno where it is in Vista, but in XP you have to launch the Sound Control Panel applet and go to the Audio tab to set it.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 21:19 |
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Cidrick posted:What's your default recording device set to? Dunno where it is in Vista, but in XP you have to launch the Sound Control Panel applet and go to the Audio tab to set it. Default recording device is line in. I've tried disabling all the other recording devices too and I still can't record the sound. I guess I could try using onboard sound.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 21:38 |
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Factor Mystic posted:Elaborate, please. I thought it was an automatic update for Media Center. Is there something separate I need to install. I'm serious, I've searched around on how to make this work to no avail. When the beta first came out, I did this, and it appeared: quote:Here’s how you get the update for anyone interested:
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 22:51 |
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What's the best program to view the DV stream coming in one of my Firewire ports? I'm not interested in recording, I just want to view. I've had the most luck with VLC so far but there's still a bit of a delay on there that doesn't exist when I'm using WinDV - the problem is that WinDV preview quality is awful. This is for playing Wii on my desktop, in case you were wondering.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 22:56 |
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Maneki Neko posted:When the beta first came out, I did this, and it appeared:    It's not just for like Xbox Media Center or something, right, but the PC versions too?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2007 23:16 |
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Bucket Joneses posted:Can someone help me write a set of batch files that I can execute via launchy to control XBMC via the webserver? I figured it out. I used curl.exe (put it in C:\WINDOWS) to make a batch file such as this: code:Bucket Joneses fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2007 around 01:36 |
| # ? Nov 14, 2007 01:32 |
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Factor Mystic posted:It's not just for like Xbox Media Center or something, right, but the PC versions too? Yeah, I've been watching it on my Vista pc since it came out. It looks like it's different if you're not using a tv card: quote:For those of you who don't have TV tuners set up (i.e., no Guide under TV settings):
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| # ? Nov 14, 2007 01:37 |
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I have Vista, and Windows Explorer crashes a couple times a day for no reason I can determine. This is pretty annoying - is there something I can do?
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| # ? Nov 14, 2007 03:05 |
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In Vista, with the Media Center TV viewer, is it a full screen program, or can you have TV in a little window on the Desktop so you can watch while doing other things?
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| # ? Nov 14, 2007 03:31 |
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Maneki Neko posted:Yeah, I've been watching it on my Vista pc since it came out. It looks like it's different if you're not using a tv card: Ah, thank you very much! That is not intuitive at all, even though I poked around though the options. And searched online. Well, the interface is great. Very slick. I love the live thumbnails and the variety. Resolution leaves something to be desired, but it's beta. If they hook a purchasing system up to this I'll definitely give it a go.
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| # ? Nov 14, 2007 04:59 |
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I was feeling zany, and went ahead and did the Windows Anytime Upgrade thing. I went from Business -> Ultimate. However, I did not get a new key. What gives? How do I install Ultimate later if I need to reformat? My key reads as a Business key on install. Edit: Ok, the Magic Jellybean program was able to locate my Ultimate key. I've written it down. Now - my digital locker thing shows no information about a purchased upgrade. How long before it shows up? Xenomorph fucked around with this message at Nov 14, 2007 around 07:33 |
| # ? Nov 14, 2007 06:28 |
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