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Recently on a whim, I signed up for a 6-session community college class on documentary photography lead by Jon Lewis. This is my favourite genre of photography and inarguably one of the most important. Degas said "art is not what you see, but what you make others see" - and I would say the same for photography. Each time you decide to snap the shutter, decide on the angles and lighting and camera setting and everything else, you are making history in your own unique way, as a result of your motivations. Remember those GBS threads "pictures that unnerve you" and "beautiful pictures that bring up your emotions"? As an (aspiring) photographer I'm pretty embarrassed to admit I've saved hundreds, maybe thousands of photos from those threads without even knowing most of their context or photographer (though thanks to people who made the effort to include explanations/links along with the pictures). In the same line as the street photography thread I'll post a few from the masters. Street photography is a sub-genre of documentary photography but for the most part I'll leave it for the other thread. Robert Capa  Click here for the full 611x404 image. American landing on Omaha Beach, D-Day Sebastiao Salgado  Rwandan refugee camp in Benako, Tanzania. 1995 Joseph Koudelka  Ireland 1972 James Nachetwey - You can watch his talk on ted.com  An orphan boy wandering around the front line in the Second Chechen War Max Dupain  Bondi 1932 Dorothea Lange  Migrant mother and children, 1936 in Nipomo, California Mary Ellen Mark  Amanda and Her Cousin, Amy Valdese, North California In my first class last week Jon mentioned a cynicism within the profession regarding photojournalism - he said they focus more on the immediate happenings, the current affairs around the world; and photojournalists rush to the latest news hot spots, grab the most violent/sensational money shot they can get, and zoom out of there just as quickly for the next big thing. Because in the press world blood sells. It seems like more of an issue with the demands of the news industry though, not the photographers. From what I understand, documentary photographers are more self-driven and are able to work thoroughly on long-term projects, often on issues unseen or ignored by the world, like Spencer Platt photographing Central African Republic or Jon Lewis at Bougainville Island. I think all of this makes an interesting topic of discussion (am actually a little surprised there hasn't been a thread yet), and it might spark some ideas for photo documentary projects. It's not only about exotic locations and military conflict; if there's an issue that you find important or compelling, you can show it to the world in pictures. Maybe we can start an inter-city goon project to photograph street musicians, for example? This is my first time making a thread on SA (and I'm a CC newbie too), hope I didn't do anything wrong... 13 fucked around with this message at Aug 26, 2009 around 19:33 |
| # ? Aug 26, 2009 19:09 |
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| # ? Feb 09, 2010 20:31 |
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There is a significant difference between documentary photography and photojournalism in practice, because photojournalists who are working for a short deadline can't really stick around and 'explore' the issue or subject because they have to make a deadline and move onto the next assignment. I don't think it's a fair critique of photojournalism to argue that it's too fast paced because if it was all shot like documentary work, then the information and news would never make it out. Photographers like Nachtwey are, in my view, riding the line between photojournalism and documentary work because on the one hand, he is reporting from places of great news importance and his work is frequently short term/fast deadline. However, he is working from a clearly stated position/viewpoint, rather than attempting a level of objectivity (not that PJs *are* objective, no one can be or is, but to strive for objectivity is a crucial aspect of photojournalism) and he is given to long term projects with a single theme or message. Robert Capa, on the other hand, was a photojournalist moreso than a documentary shooter, to me anyway. I think if I had to throw out the name of one of the more interesting documentary photographers working today, Lauren Greenfield comes to mind rather quickly. All that said, heart wrenching and graphic subject matter makes up a tiny fraction of the day-to-day work of the average working photojournalist at a newspaper. it's mostly cute kids and youth sports
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| # ? Aug 26, 2009 23:51 |
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James Nachtwey is amazing, the documentary war photographer is on youtube, I highly recommend it. This is the only type of photography I would ever consider pursuing as a career but how would you even start?
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| # ? Sep 09, 2009 21:17 |
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American Suburb X republished a really great article on the Abu Ghraib images, and what digital point and shoot has done to war journalism: http://www.americansuburbx.com/2009...abu-ghraib.html
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| # ? Sep 11, 2009 02:25 |
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brad industry
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13 posted:Degas said "art is not what you see, but what you make others see" - and I would say the same for photography. Each time you decide to snap the shutter, decide on the angles and lighting and camera setting and everything else, you are making history in your own unique way, as a result of your motivations. I have intentionally shot poorly when covering a protest I didn't agree with. I suppose it was inevitable; I got the job as a newspaper photographer because my college prof asked me to shoot for the school paper and a classmate who worked weekends at the city paper asked me to replace him when he left, but I became a journalist because of Dr. Thompson. TsarAleksi posted:All that said, heart wrenching and graphic subject matter makes up a tiny fraction of the day-to-day work of the average working photojournalist at a newspaper. it's mostly cute kids and youth sports Another one of the Masters: Arthur Fellig aka Weegee  He's my role model.
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| # ? Sep 27, 2009 08:22 |
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brad industry posted:American Suburb X republished a really great article on the Abu Ghraib images, and what digital point and shoot has done to war journalism: bi, Fascinating article, and now-bookmarked site, so thanks for that. The author comes to some conclusions that seem to boil down to a paradigmatic shift in visual semiotics; the extension or perhaps the mutation of the hyperreal as it applies to documentary and journalistic photography. This is an intensely interesting point that deserves further discussion. However, he contends that the these photographs weren't subject to journalistic ethics, integrity, or editing, and that they completely bypassed the "military-media alliance" but seems to take it for granted that these are benevolent forces. Why is it that "fascism of choice", so to speak, is any more tyrannical than that of the editor kept in check by the government through formal or informal means? He seems to argue that anything that will "stem the tide" of digital images, laden with agenda though it may be, is useful. Radbot fucked around with this message at Sep 27, 2009 around 09:19 |
| # ? Sep 27, 2009 09:14 |
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Has anyone here done any documentary stuff off of there own back? like just for a project? Being unemployed at the minute and with alot of time on my hands im trying to come up with a project to sink my teeth into, but have no idea about how to go about it.
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| # ? Sep 27, 2009 23:25 |
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fronkpies posted:Has anyone here done any documentary stuff off of there own back? like just for a project? Usually you find something that you are interested in and then you take photos of it.
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| # ? Sep 28, 2009 00:03 |
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Twenties Superstar posted:Usually you find something that you are interested in and then you take photos of it. Really? never thought of it that way, thanks for the great advice... Was thinking more about say a series involving the homeless or drug addicts, i suppose the only way to get that started would be to speak to the homeless or the addicts so cant get much advice there, taking that first step i guess.
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| # ? Sep 28, 2009 00:31 |
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fronkpies posted:Was thinking more about say a series involving the homeless or drug addicts, i suppose the only way to get that started would be to speak to the homeless or the addicts so cant get much advice there, taking that first step i guess. Document a day/week/month/year in the life of a drug rehab clinic or homeless shelter. Figure out the storylines within the story and tell them with photos. Things like homeless shelters are largely volunteer driven so any help or publicity they can get will most likely be welcome.
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| # ? Sep 28, 2009 03:01 |
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Radbot posted:bi, I don't think he is arguing that one system is more tyrannical or benevolent than the other, but that they both benefit those in power for different reasons. In the past the the scarcity of the photograph and the institutional filters they had to pass through granted them a sense of truth but also the possibility of censorship or distortion. Now with the never ending amount of "visual talk", our culture is just an endless flow of simulacrum and we have the opposite problem - it's too much to process, so we have to rely on others to tell us what is "real" or what actually matters. I thought it was a pretty insightful point that the democracy of the camera is what has led to this undermining of visual literacy, and not digital manipulation like a lot of people thought would happen. But yeah I think all this stuff is fascinating, especially in relation to America which has such a hyperreal history and culture to begin with. Since photography is so relatively new we don't really have a language for talking about it yet in the way we do other images, so it's interesting to see these kind of semiotic shifts play out. Photographs don't signify what they did even 10 years ago, and journalists are going to have to figure out what the implications are for how they present information. brad industry fucked around with this message at Sep 28, 2009 around 19:11 |
| # ? Sep 28, 2009 19:09 |
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word of the the day: semiotic
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| # ? Sep 28, 2009 19:12 |
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fronkpies posted:Has anyone here done any documentary stuff off of there own back? like just for a project?  )fronkpies posted:Was thinking more about say a series involving the homeless or drug addicts, i suppose the only way to get that started would be to speak to the homeless or the addicts so cant get much advice there, taking that first step i guess. Protip: Making friends with a publisher and getting a press card that can be verified will get you drat near anywhere. "I'm a photography student working on a project for class" is almost as good. My photo prof actually did the former to help his personal projects and recommended the latter to his students. HPL posted:Things like homeless shelters are largely volunteer driven so any help or publicity they can get will most likely be welcome. Delivery McGee fucked around with this message at Oct 04, 2009 around 07:07 |
| # ? Oct 04, 2009 07:01 |
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If you're really thinking about this photographing the homeless thing, you may wanna check out this series from our local daily: http://www.dailypress.com/news/home...37.photogallery The photographer has wanted to do something like this for ages, but is only now being let loose to go do it. He said he had to spend a month or more just visiting certain folks before they were comfortable with him taking any pictures. So, be prepared for a long process that's more about building relationships than making pictures, if you're really serious about doing something like that.
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| # ? Oct 22, 2009 16:48 |
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Delivery McGee posted:Dammit, I want to post (and print out and put on the photo desk at work) the Calvin and Hobbes strip where Calvin talks about how people think the camera doesn't lie, but it does. But I've lost it. Help a brother out? Searchable Calvin & Hobbes archive
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| # ? Oct 22, 2009 22:23 |
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Fjord posted:Searchable Calvin & Hobbes archive That may be the best website ever.
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| # ? Oct 23, 2009 06:50 |
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Fjord posted:Searchable Calvin & Hobbes archive I'm saving this for the future. I shoot for my college newspaper in my free time, so I guess I have about three years of part-time-volunteer-photojournalism experience. We've done a few "Photo Essays" where a whole page of the paper is dedicated to a single subject or story, but that's a small potatoes version of the documentary stuff you guys are talking about.
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| # ? Oct 23, 2009 14:28 |
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I have a small series of pictures I took last Easter in Spain. Some of the pictures you may recognize but I decided to group them together for posterity. One of my main gripes is the radical change of processing between the Madrid and Toledo series of pictures, but the lighting was completely different so there was no catch-all theme of processing I was able to find.  Semana Santa 2009 EDIT: Moved location, updated the URL Fragrag fucked around with this message at Oct 25, 2009 around 21:44 |
| # ? Oct 23, 2009 23:05 |
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Frinkahedron posted:I'm saving this for the future. I love photo stories. I don't get nearly enough chances to do them in the Navy. That was my favorite part when I went through the military tech school. I did mine on the skate scene in Baltimore, with one shop in particular as the focus. I guess it helped that I loved the subject matter.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2009 07:11 |
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Well I've got a media pass for the rally in Norfolk this afternoon. President Obama is campaigning for Virginia Governor candidate Creigh Deeds. I just did a quick phone interview with Deeds, and I'm gonna bring my recorder to the rally, so hopefully I'll be able to show off a soundslide to ya'll when I'm back tonight. Wish me luck, this is a pretty big assignment for my portfolio!
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| # ? Oct 27, 2009 15:54 |
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Sorry for the double post, but I've finally processed all my shots so I figured I'd share a couple.      Honestly, the photography itself was pretty simple, cut and dry stuff. It was just neat being in the media area for an event with the President and Secret Service and everything. I even got a snazzy "White House Press Pool" pass that I'm definitely hanging on to forever. 
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| # ? Oct 28, 2009 22:31 |
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BobTheCow posted:Sorry for the double post, but I've finally processed all my shots so I figured I'd share a couple. That's awesome =) I got to photograph a rally in Toledo last year when Obama was still campaigning for President. My press pass was not nearly as cool as a White House Press Pool pass, though! Something interesting that happened to us here in Toledo on Sunday: I'm the director of photography at our independent student newspaper, The Independent Collegian. One of my photographers was out looking for standalone art (honestly, he was taking pictures of squirrels because nothing was going on) when he heard some screaming and shouting. Turns out, he's in the right place at the right time: a female student just had her phone stolen from her. Two other students who were just out smoking saw the act, and chased down the perp. They detained him for a short time, but then let him go when he said he was going to use a gun on them. (While I would think that's grounds to knock the guy the gently caress out, I understand the heat-of-the-moment irrationality that goes on). Anyway, during all of this, my photographer was snapping photos with a D300. The phone was returned during the struggle as well. So the cops show up, and my photographer gets to ride with the cops down to the station, and gives them his photos. Meanwhile, we publish the story + a photo in the next day's issue: http://www.independentcollegian.com...antes-1.2036896 The next day, the local NBC affiliate did a story about it: http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news....aspx?id=367891 Then, today, the ABC affiliate interviewed my photographer at the office, and they did a piece on the nighttime news about it as well: http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?s...ocal&id=7087589 Police were able to ID the guy through the photos -- turns out he's a student. I'm sure he won't be at large for long; he faces felony robbery charges now. I thought it was pretty cool. dakana fucked around with this message at Oct 28, 2009 around 23:58 |
| # ? Oct 28, 2009 23:55 |
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BobTheCow posted:Sorry for the double post, but I've finally processed all my shots so I figured I'd share a couple. I like the first one the best. It's not the most exciting but it makes Obama just ooze power, confidence and composure. The crowd in the background gives him a "man of the people" feel. And this is coming from someone who isn't a big fan of him(or any politicians in general). The only thing I could possibly criticize about it is that the angle of rotation on the body makes his head look huge in relation to his body.
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| # ? Oct 29, 2009 01:13 |
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HPL posted:I like the first one the best. It's not the most exciting but it makes Obama just ooze power, confidence and composure. The crowd in the background gives him a "man of the people" feel. And this is coming from someone who isn't a big fan of him(or any politicians in general). The only thing I could possibly criticize about it is that the angle of rotation on the body makes his head look huge in relation to his body. I agree, now. At first I liked the one of him behind our state flag the best, but the more I think about it, the more I like that first one. I just went through the shots from my second body, and while most were garbage, I snagged a couple that I think are decent.    I loving HATE myself for missing focus on that last one. I would've loved to have had an Obama terrorist fist jab to hold on to. *sigh* Oh well. At least it'll run in print and nobody will be the wiser. 
BobTheCow fucked around with this message at Oct 29, 2009 around 14:17 |
| # ? Oct 29, 2009 14:13 |
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I'm sad that I'm so late to this, but I just have to mention that I was excluded from getting to photograph Dick Cheney when he visited my boat because my criminal record (I got bored a lot as a kid) meant I was too dangerous. Not that I would have been able to get decent photos because the secret service was freaking out about the fact that there were armed watchstanders on a military base. I'd like to think that it would be different with this administration, but I somehow doubt it.
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| # ? Nov 07, 2009 23:12 |
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Find it strange that Henri Cartier-Bresson isn't mentioned here, is he considered more of a street photographer than photojournalist? He has some great photos of war-time Europe
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| # ? Nov 08, 2009 01:32 |
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Just my luck that on one of the first real days i go out with my film camera to get to grips with the thing, theres a big protest against homophobia and the bnp going on. Was funny running along with proper press photographers who where using pro digital canons, while im trying to change a roll of film in my 80's manual focus canon. Could have been alot better, you can tell i didnt mingle enough, alot are off to the side shots, shame really. full set here     
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| # ? Dec 31, 2009 00:56 |
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fronkpies posted:I love this shot! Very cool. My one criticism for that set would be what you addressed immediately, more fronts/faces, so you're on the right track.
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| # ? Jan 01, 2010 22:05 |
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fronkpies posted:Has anyone here done any documentary stuff off of there own back? like just for a project? Jumping on this thread way late, however, the other advice here is sound. Pick a passion. Shoot. I've been involved with high school debate for the past dozen years or so and am spending this year (hopefully 4 or 5 more, actually) photographing high school debate in Washington state. So far the hardest thing about this project is that I definitely don't want to photograph anything that will put debate in a negative light, cause schools to pull funding, expel students, or have parents pull their students out of debate. This means that there is a significant amount of culture that I either consciously don't shoot or won't publish, ever...It makes me feel dirty as a so-called documentary photographer, however, I've accepted that photographs lie (thanks for the Calvin and Hobbes) and that that is the cost of my compromised position as an advocate of a high school activity and as a photographer. current project in progress: http://www.cgrantmccool.com/debate I also wanted to ask if people had gotten a chance to check out Pam Spaulding's book "An American Family: Three Decades with the McGarvey's"( http://www.npr.org/blogs/picturesho...can_family.html ) I'm not sure documentary photography has ever spoken to me like this book/project have. And, another website: http://www.burnmagazine.org this one is done by David Allen Harvey (magnum). Outside of these forums, perhaps the only site I use/view regularly and has both photojournalism and documentary projects featured regularly.
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| # ? Jan 14, 2010 07:19 |
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fronkpies posted:James Nachtwey is amazing, the documentary war photographer is on youtube, I highly recommend it. That's how I feel, man. Would love to be doing this stuff. It almost seems like you just have to pack up all your things and just go there and shoot. Come back with the pictures and try and sell them to the papers. Make a name for yourself. In this day and age, I really don't think there is a step-by-step career path for photojournalism. You have to make it your career yourself. I think that's what I'll do. gently caress this stupid job I have.
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| # ? Jan 14, 2010 13:03 |
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vohumanahhotei posted:Jumping on this thread way late, however, the other advice here is sound. Pick a passion. Shoot. It seems like a decent start, I guess just shoot more and start editing out similar shots. I think following a high school debate team might be interesting enough, showing all the moments preparing and leading up to a big show. But I can't help but be more interested in what Debate teams could be doing that is so salacious you can't show it for fear of expulsion. To me that sounds like where the interesting story lies. If I were to suggest, take those scandal pictures anyway. You can always not show them, but you'll kick yourself if in editing a final cut one of those pictures would bring your whole narrative together.
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| # ? Jan 14, 2010 14:54 |
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Jahoodie posted:But I can't help but be more interested in what Debate teams could be doing that is so salacious you can't show it for fear of expulsion. To me that sounds like where the interesting story lies. Playing Magic: The Gathering during class hours! I did 3 years of debate
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| # ? Jan 14, 2010 15:04 |
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Jahoodie posted:It seems like a decent start, I guess just shoot more and start editing out similar shots. I think following a high school debate team might be interesting enough, showing all the moments preparing and leading up to a big show. But I can't help but be more interested in what Debate teams could be doing that is so salacious you can't show it for fear of expulsion. To me that sounds like where the interesting story lies. High school debates are largely judged and coached by college debaters. Basically, there are a lot of drugs and drinking that occurs as a tertiary activity. The other part of that, is that because of the nature of the activity, often age lines get blurred and you will have after tournament parties that include College professors, students, and high school debaters all at once. I have certainly been aware of my students being stoned at tournaments, for example, and have even been invited to join their happy little circle. These are instances when I look or walk away, for the sake of debate. If they're still in competition and have more rounds to debate, then I definitely sit them down and talk to them, but only if they get an adult from outside our school will I take any sort of real action. I've been thinking of doing this as two separate, long term projects. College debaters and their culture are not going anywhere in the near future. However, college debate would require much more money. They usually have to fly to their tournaments, rather than down the road to another high school. I've also been having some trouble getting classroom access to students. Many schools and school districts have photo release requirements, even if it's not a commercial gig. It's a rather difficult hurdle because it means going from coach, to administrator, back to coach, to parents, and then hopefully back to me. In some cases, I ignore their rules (schools, teachers, students that I know don't care) in the firm stance that what I am doing is journalism/documentary photojournalism. In others, there are teachers and students who are 100% by the book and won't give me the time of day. My question here is, would a press pass, even an NPPA ID, help me with this? In any case, as the project completes I'll be editing down each gallery and making one project/portfolio gallery. However, for now, parents, students, teachers all keep asking me about photographs of their kids debating, so the editing out images process has been very limited. question, however. I've decided that the final product in these will be black & white. I feel that color seems to obfuscate the story, somewhat. Almost as if its a distraction from the person/subject and their narrative. I was also worried that there would be a disconnect between tournaments/events if I went all in color. So how do people feel about this being in B&W, rather than color?
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| # ? Jan 14, 2010 18:18 |
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