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vicineal posted:Sorry, didn't mean to offend you at all, which I clearly have. I am very confused by the mixed messages I've received from agents, and I suppose I wanted some directional advice - re. what I should pursue! I'd also like to add that every suggestion my agent has given me about changing my ms has been dead on. You have to put your defenses down because these people know what they're talking about. They know what they can sell. As a writer I stand behind my writing and my concept, but I'm also smart enough to admit that you have to be flexible about the creative process in order to get published. I eventually ended up killing off a character that I never had any intention of killing in the original ms, but it really improved the story and now I have no idea why I didn't do it to begin with. If you find an agent you trust and respect it really shouldn't be a problem.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 15:06 |
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| # ? Feb 09, 2010 19:56 |
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Romper Billson posted:Have most or all of them been published before? If not, or you don't otherwise have representation for a full-length work, you probably aren't going to find agency representation. However, this is probably something that you can shop directly to a press, probably a smaller niche press or possibly even a university press. I figured as much. One day I'll find a way for you to all be in one place, my lovelies 
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 15:12 |
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Toaster Beef posted:One day I'll find a way for you to all be in one place, my lovelies The garbage.  Honestly though, from everything I've read, that type of work sits around until after you've established yourself and then it's later published as an anthology. (See: Oates, Faulkner)
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 15:29 |
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I'm just gonna pop this little quote by here, before this entire thread degenerates into "tell us about the FUNNIEST/WORST/MOST PERVERTED query letter you ever received EVER" and other variations over the same GBS tune:Betsy Lerner posted:I am dismayed when I visit freshmen and sophomores in college, and the first question they ask when I finish my spiel is whether they need an agent and how they should go about getting one. I am dismayed when they ask me about advances and whether they should get an MFA, when they talk about the various writing programs as if they were clubs or restaurants, hot for a limited time only. Though I was a largely closeted writer during college, and identified myself as an aspiring poet only to a few friends who also wrote, I do not remember our conversations tending towards deals and dollars. We had no idea what an agent was for or that they even existed. Mostly we wanted to know about writers - how they lived, how they wrote, whom they loved.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 15:43 |
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epoch. posted:The garbage. Why, epoch why
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 16:51 |
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Thanks again Romper. I'm enjoying this thread. There are two questions I have with regard to this idea of "good but could you change this small (or large) point" type of responses. First, as mentioned in some other creative writing threads in CC, would you agree that in fiction writing, first person perspectives tend to be better than third person or otherwise more objective narratives? Of the works you tend to recommend, is there plurality of one style being consistently stronger than the other? I almost always enjoy first person much more, but the plot options given by the latter is tempting as a new writer. Second, is it realistic expect to sell a novel that takes place largely in the past, say the 1980s or 1990s without really being a period piece. I ask because it seems to me that unless a novel is supposed to engender feelings from that particular era (like the Civil War or the counterculture 60s), people want to read something that's centers around present day. I guess it's just easier to relate to. Does this ever enter into your sense of what can be sold? I ask since I have a work in progress that has a lot of characters born out of the Depression and WWII. It's also a basis for the entire town's existence. Events fast forward to the 70s, which are treated as the present. This 30s and 40s background is important to who these people are, so moving it up to present day wouldn't work.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 17:00 |
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Funk In Shoe posted:I'm just gonna pop this little quote by here, before this entire thread degenerates into "tell us about the FUNNIEST/WORST/MOST PERVERTED query letter you ever received EVER" and other variations over the same GBS tune: Sure, I think she's right. Unless you're writing, say, romance or high fantasy or other genres in which, more often than not, convention counts for more than writing ability, you can't be an "empty vessel" sort of writer -- someone armed with an agent, an MFA, and no real artistic soul. On the other hand, I don't think that being contemptuously oblivious to the world of literary agencies and publishing houses helps any writer. Everyone who wants to be published will probably have to deal with it at some point, and you may as well learn all you can about it before you go into the metaphorical lion's den. And some agents, and many readers, are nowhere near the kind of callous, merciless, one-dimensional assholes that most people assume talent agents are. I'm happy that this job allows me to work with the written word in a way that's meaningful for me (i.e. not editing for Cat Fancy magazine), in addition to my own writing career on the side. Yes, it does affect how I think about writing in a fundamental way, but I think approaching writing from a different angle is helpful for me, and I hope that other people benefit from this perspective. Also, I don't know what Betsey Lerner expects from Q&A sessions. She's written an advice guide for writers and been an editor -- of course she's going to get questions about the business aspects of writing, because for many of these students this is the first time they'll encounter someone who knows that side of publishing. Does she really expect an audience that she knows nothing about to be able to engage her in deep conversations about the craft of writing akin to the ones she had with her close writing friends? I doubt that you can have a meaningful dialog (i.e. not just spouting platitudes about writing) with an anonymous audience member in the two minutes or so that social convention and the limited time of Q&A sessions allow for a typical question. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, and on top of that I think that her blog, like almost all blogs, tends to reward snark, anti-elitism/establishmentarianism, and general ranting rather than thoughtful reflection. Romper Billson fucked around with this message at Sep 22, 2009 around 19:46 |
| # ? Sep 22, 2009 17:02 |
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Toaster Beef posted:Why, epoch I only hit you because I love you. StickySweater posted:Second, is it realistic expect to sell a novel that takes place largely in the past, say the 1980s or 1990s without really being a period piece. I ask because it seems to me that unless a novel is supposed to engender feelings from that particular era (like the Civil War or the counterculture 60s), people want to read something that's centers around present day. I guess it's just easier to relate to. Does this ever enter into your sense of what can be sold? These types of counter-productive questions are, I think, precisely what Funk was railing against. Who cares what decade it's set in, or what geographical region, so long as the story is compelling and well-written? Stop languishing over what may or may not sell and write the book.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 17:49 |
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StickySweater posted:First, as mentioned in some other creative writing threads in CC, would you agree that in fiction writing, first person perspectives tend to be better than third person or otherwise more objective narratives? Of the works you tend to recommend, is there plurality of one style being consistently stronger than the other? I almost always enjoy first person much more, but the plot options given by the latter is tempting as a new writer. First person is seeing as being gimmicky by a large bulk of agents and publishers because the people who flock to first person are usually those who will do things like use present tense.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 18:25 |
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When aspiring to be published, is it better to try to get an agent first, or just apply straight to publishers? Or (once I'm ready to submit) should I submit to both agents and publishers at the same time? If it makes any difference, my book is middle-grade fiction.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 18:29 |
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Anomalous Blowout posted:Is there such a thing as "too short" when the word count is at least past novella length? Would your agency hesitate to pick up a project that was otherwise serviceable solely on account of it being shorter than average? Apparently, yes, anything under about 65-70k words is going to be a harder sell by itself. If you can package it with something else -- like, say, Salinger's "Franny and Zooey," which is really a novella plus a short story -- it's more likely to get represented. But again, it might be worth shopping around as is to smaller presses without representation. StickySweater posted:First, as mentioned in some other creative writing threads in CC, would you agree that in fiction writing, first person perspectives tend to be better than third person or otherwise more objective narratives? Of the works you tend to recommend, is there plurality of one style being consistently stronger than the other? I almost always enjoy first person much more, but the plot options given by the latter is tempting as a new writer. No, I don't think there's any way to say that any one narrative technique is better than another. However, I do think that people are much more instinctively conscious of the limitations of their narrator's perspective when they're writing first-person than third-person. quote:Second, is it realistic expect to sell a novel that takes place largely in the past, say the 1980s or 1990s without really being a period piece. I ask because it seems to me that unless a novel is supposed to engender feelings from that particular era (like the Civil War or the counterculture 60s), people want to read something that's centers around present day. I guess it's just easier to relate to. Does this ever enter into your sense of what can be sold? Sure, I don't see why not. It's true that certain historical periods are better represented than others, but usually it's because moments of profound and obvious political, economic, or social change capture more writers' imaginations than relatively quieter ones. But, as people have pointed out, you shouldn't worry about the marketability of a piece before other considerations. If it's good writing, it will more than likely find a home, regardless of when it's set. DorianGravy posted:When aspiring to be published, is it better to try to get an agent first, or just apply straight to publishers? Or (once I'm ready to submit) should I submit to both agents and publishers at the same time? It really depends. Some publishers don't accept unsolicited manuscripts, so if most of the presses that you are looking at are like that, you'll probably want agency representation. Agents tend to have contacts and relationships with publishing houses, and have a lot of experience in the market; they will know what sells and how to pitch what you have. However, there is a price for this, and it adds length to the whole process. So do your homework. Look at which houses are publishing other middle-grade work, and look at who's representing authors who write books that are similar to yours. Check agents' reputations -- bad ones are likely to have a fairly public rap sheet. Also realize that you have plenty of time to shop around, and you shouldn't feel pressured to accept the first offer. You can submit your manuscript to multiple agencies and publishers at once, so don't be afraid to do that. But for your sake, do enough research that you can make an informed decision. Aturaten posted:First person is seeing as being gimmicky by a large bulk of agents and publishers because the people who flock to first person are usually those who will do things like use present tense. Well, it's true that first-person writing is probably the easiest voice in which to write, because it's the most natural, and so a larger proportion of writers in the first-person are going to be bad. But there's no reason to categorically say that all first person is bad. Likewise, there's no reason to say that all present tense is bad. James Jones, Toni Morrison, John Updike, Charles Dickens, and Richard Russo all wrote books entirely or mostly in the present tense. In both cases, it's much riskier to do, much more difficult to keep it from sticking out as an obvious artifice, and much easier to spot when someone isn't doing it well -- the former because it's extremely overused, the latter because it's extremely unfamiliar. But they are not gimmicks. I know it's fashionable to dismiss present tense narrative right now, but I think that's an overly reactionary position to a particular stylistic choice, one which prescriptivists see as trendy and annoying, but which in my opinion is not intrinsically "worse" than others. It is just harder to do well, that's all; to be categorical about it goes too far. I'd be interested to know who these agents and publishers are who see both first-person and present tense as gimmicky, though, and why they take that position. It may just be that because present tense fiction is underrepresented in both submissions and publications, they assume that means it is unmarketable -- a simple confusion of correlation and causation. Romper Billson fucked around with this message at Sep 22, 2009 around 19:40 |
| # ? Sep 22, 2009 18:59 |
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Ouch, just opened up one of my old books in MS word, and it clocks in at 180K words. :/
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 20:21 |
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Stuntcock posted:Ouch, just opened up one of my old books in MS word, and it clocks in at 180K words. :/ Not to derail but how in the hell can anyone write such a long story? I can't even comprehend having that problem. I struggle to reach 50k.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 21:02 |
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Fantasmo posted:Not to derail but how in the hell can anyone write such a long story? I can't even comprehend having that problem. I struggle to reach 50k. I'm at loving 4k with my current rewrite (made it too cartoony). I got 107 words down the other day.
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| # ? Sep 22, 2009 21:17 |
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Aturaten posted:I'm at loving 4k with my current rewrite (made it too cartoony). I got 107 words down the other day. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that you need to understand the industry to be a writer is living in either a poofy romantic cloud fantasy world or 1955
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 00:08 |
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Fantasmo posted:Not to derail but how in the hell can anyone write such a long story? I can't even comprehend having that problem. I struggle to reach 50k. I wrote a story that long one time. My answer to why it was so long: high school. High schoolers can't write. (I'm not saying this is why Stuntcock's was so long.)
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 01:15 |
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I dream of a day wherein 70,000 words seems attainable. 100,000+ is simply beyond my comprehension. Some of you people are goddamn machines.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 01:40 |
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Defenestration posted:Anyone who doesn't acknowledge that you need to understand the industry to be a writer is living in either a poofy romantic cloud fantasy world or 1955 There's nothing wrong with wanting to understand the business. My dear sweet kid sister spent 4 years of her life writing a book, basically not caring about anything else or even being aware what the whole publishing business was about. She knew that she liked to write and that she'd like to get published, that was it. She worked for years (at that, not at GETTNG TO KNOW THE INDUSTRY AND GETTING HER FOOT IN THE DOOR AND CRAFTING THE PERFECT COVER LETTER SLASH WORD COUNT) and when she was done, she submitted it to a bunch of people and a publisher took her in. THEN she sat down and bought 3 books on the subject (one of which happened to be Betsy Lerner's "Forest for the Trees" which I have quoted above.) Because sure, it's good to know what you need to do once you've, you know, written a book. But seeing people here ask about word count, about "what genre sells" about whether "they should write short stories or novels" is just absolutely loving mind-boggling. Why the gently caress do you people write? What on god's green earth is your motivation, when you find yourself actively ASKING some random stranger on the internet whether or not your word count or genre would be "okay"? Do you have no freaking faith in what you're trying to say to people? Are you all so goddamned hell-bent on becoming "writers" that you don't care about what you have to write to get there? There is something wildly symptomatic about the fact that this thread, in one week, has ballooned to page four, while the thread for discussing fiction and writing is more or less deserted with only 1 or 2 new posts every day. There is something wildly wrong (and, it seems, wholly American) about approaching "the business" as some sort of magically charged career riddle which - if you are able to unlock it through the right Brown'esque combination of perfect cover letters, impeccable word count, proper consideration for what genre is selling at the moment and attachment of the rightly sepia-toned author photo - will somehow automatically catapult you into literary stardom, as long as you don't do gently caress-all else than meet the basic requirements and oh by the way you also have to write a book, at some point. Hearing people who claim to have an affinity for the literary side of life, when they yammer on and on about the freaking business just boggles the mind. Sure, it's a good thing to know the basics, but why treat it like it's a "part" of being a writer. Writing never had anything to do with making money. This thread and every Q&A session ever reads like the literary equivalent of a bunch of kids who just went out and bought their first guitars and started a garage band - only instead of signing up for guitar lessons or listening to music or practicing the basic chords like they should be, they immediately stormed out and started gathering information on "how do I organize a world tour?" - "does a record label come to me or should I approach them?" - "Are roadies organized in a union?" - "What would you think is the best average length for a song these days?" - "We're thinking we want to be a metal band but do you think Polka sells better these days, because we can do that, too!" "what am I going to do once I write my 1st #1 single" - "what should I wear on my album cover?", while their instruments are rotting away under dad's old stockpiled porn magazines.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 01:41 |
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Even if you believe in the all holiness of writing, the business end is interesting. I don't see the problem in writers asking questions and being interested in particulars of how to write publishable literature. Fiction is just entertainment after all and these details sound like a good guide to know how to structure a salable work. So what if people are talking shop? After all 99% of everything Romper Billson reads is rejected. Let's just help those numbers out with our 50k word count steaming pile of calculated mierda. 
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 01:50 |
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Hinchu posted:Even if you believe in the all holiness of writing, the business end is interesting. I don't see the problem in writers asking questions and being interested in particulars of how to write publishable literature. I concur. I don't particularly see a problem with people wanting to gauge the commercial aspects of their work (real or theoretical). When you have such a large amount of rejected work, it might serve to have the commercial discussion in a broad sense. That is what we've been doing for 3 pages now. Don't hand in 180K word manuscripts, don't try to be Hunter S. Thompson on your first time out, etc. Now, granted I understand you interperate some of those questions as "not being about the art, man! They just want money," and sure that's dumb, as are the "artist" who do the same with music, film etc. Of course, ego that drives that mostly, but if no one here cared about commercial interest you'd only have 'true' artist who communicate for the sake of the message, and I'd guess they're in the minority in most art forms. I'm not sure any industry could survive like that.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 02:19 |
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Fantasmo posted:Not to derail but how in the hell can anyone write such a long story? I can't even comprehend having that problem. I struggle to reach 50k. I think, like a road trip, joke, story, or affair, it needs to be as long as it needs to be, not longer, not shorter. An editor may very well disagree, and I despise unnecessarily long books, or, again, 'filler...' ...so know that, even though I've read it a few times, and want to go over it again, that my opinion is everything necessary that needs to be said has been said, and everything irrelevant or redundant has been removed. I also know that there MUST be something to be trimmed, regardless. I always take my time, and fully develop a lot going in, then see where certain things go. It's like a cross-country road trip; you plan A to B to C all the way to Z, with a slightly flexible timetable, and plan for the random stops, distractions, and, well, the unplanned. It's also not impossible to take a detour, and find a better destination. It just so happens it's that long, and I'm overly conscious of its massive length, which I know is a drawback, especially if I didn't accomplish my lofty goals. We'll just see, I'll sacrifice anything in the story to make the story perfect (or as perfect as it can be) in my eyes.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 04:19 |
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Stuntcock posted:I think, like a road trip, joke, story, or affair, it needs to be as long as it needs to be, not longer, not shorter. An editor may very well disagree, and I despise unnecessarily long books, or, again, 'filler...' I imagine most editors would agree that a novel should be exactly as long as it needs to be. They just have a different idea about how long it needs to be, in much the same way that parents and independent third parties may have different ideas about whether a child's actions constitute adorable, good-spirited fun or insane, malevolent antics.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 04:26 |
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Toaster Beef posted:I dream of a day wherein 70,000 words seems attainable. 100,000+ is simply beyond my comprehension. Some of you people are goddamn machines. You need to know your characters like they're real people, what they'll do, what they're capable of, what they'd find amusing. You don't have to like them, you don't have to approve of or detest their actions, wants, or needs... and they shouldn't be merely a facet of yourself or a mish-mash of people you know, but you have to understand them, and understand them well. That takes time, planning, and right-mood execution. You rush this, it will show. You have to go out and life life, explore, get into the grout of foreign alleyways, affairs with those not normally your type, go places that's not on your preferable map. Live. Learn. Comprehend. Idealize. Regurgiate. Entertain the reader AND yourself. Write what you'd love to read, but do not make it a vainglorious, fictional autobiography, or a masturbatory mimic to your narrow interests. Fashion it from your preferred preferences, to your bitter distastes, and the blandness in between. Everything you've learned since birth, but not all of it at once. Know the point you're trying to make, and get it across to the reader, even if the point is a mere montage of voyeuristic interest. ...and, for gently caress's sake, AIM. greatZebu posted:I imagine most editors would agree that a novel should be exactly as long as it needs to be. They just have a different idea about how long it needs to be, in much the same way that parents and independent third parties may have different ideas about whether a child's actions constitute adorable, good-spirited fun or insane, malevolent antics. - Keep in mind, I'm not saying everyone will enjoy my books, if fact, I wouldn't doubt if it'd get trashed by half (or more) of you. As long as I'm satisfied with it, the people whose opinions I value like it, and keep to my standards I judge other writers by the best I can, I consider it an accomplishment. One has to come to terms with that before considering a novel, I think. I hope. Stuntcock fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2009 around 05:04 |
| # ? Sep 23, 2009 04:36 |
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Funk In Shoe posted:There is something wildly symptomatic about the fact that this thread, in one week, has ballooned to page four, while the thread for discussing fiction and writing is more or less deserted with only 1 or 2 new posts every day. I'm not sure where you get the idea that the business of writing and the craft of writing are fundamentally incompatible, that this thread is somehow taking away from the fiction writing tips thread, and that no one is allowed to ask about how to get published until the moment that they have something publishable. I suspect it's from your wonderfully romantic, bohemian impression (I'm not being flippant about this, by the way) about writing -- a view that Betsey Lerner certainly plays up, I might add. Especially the last bit: you certainly have the facile anti-capitalist and anti-American attitude of a continental Marxist at university. Look, I'm sorry the fiction tips thread is apparently languishing, although I doubt that CC posters only have a finite amount of attention for which both threads are competing, and that they have exhausted it all on this thread. And I also don't think that someone who asks a question here has automatically compromised their artistic, writerly vision; business need not be a part of writing, but many people choose to make it that way. It's naive to assume that people are always going to have on-demand access to someone who works in the publishing business who solicits and (rather patiently) answers their questions. Sincere, if premature, questions about the future of someone's project could be a sign of the same kind of overwhelming passion and concern for their work that you clearly exhibit, and not necessarily a cart-before-the-horse, business-before-art mentality. I know you are trying to snipe at me and the people with whom I work, but it seems to me that you've assumed far worse about CC posters at large, the very ones with whom you are trying to discuss the art of writing in the other thread. And I certainly haven't said that getting published is a question of having the right "marketability" factors regardless of the quality of the writing; if anything, I've tried to indicate how arbitrary the process can be and how things get rejected for really minor details. Conversely, I've also tried to explain how writers of Harlequin romances and other generic, pulp-y stuff squeak by. As for whether my opinions about writing are permanently tainted for having worked on the business end, well, I never claimed that my opinions on writing ought to be universal; I don't think anyone has a monopoly on that. However unromantic it may be, I understand that there are many ways to approach writing, and that many writers are not trying to be, or even can be, artists. Romper Billson fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2009 around 05:14 |
| # ? Sep 23, 2009 05:09 |
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Romper Billson posted:My greatest feeling was feeling the weight of my first completed book, but that became overshadowed by the defeat of what I heard from literary agents (which I explained earlier, was interested in me, but didn't read my work, and eagerly hoped I was writing gay vampire crap,) but I learned to come to terms with that. I had good intentions in the writing, but my sense of accomplishment and pride rested far too much on the validation of publishing. That was a mistake. My next greatest feeling with writing was actually holding a finished second book, and one far removed from the first one, at that! That pride still lingers. I also enjoy the fact that I've new, different, and more ambitious ideas in my head, should I begin another full-length book. That's because, unlike the first accomplishment, my 'finishing line' wasn't the promise of publication, but actually finishing something new, unique, and different from my other works, and even more so that I feel fully capable of doing that again. However, if a publisher comes my way, and I'm fine with the edits? gently caress yes, I want to know everything I can do to better my position. Hell, if I get the spark to solicit the MS around, I want to know how to maximize the chance that it gets read, and a 'fair day in court,' if you will. I am both confident and nervous about strangers' opinions of my work, but I can safely say it is, by nature alone, better than a lot of crap I see published. I absolutely MUST fit in the middle, somewhere. Therefore, I feel I have a chance. What's wrong with putting a finger on the scale? I say all this having written hundreds and hundreds of pages of TRASH in my youth, that will never see the light of day, out of sheer embarrassment. These completed books I'm speaking of were written after all that. That's right. Hundreds of pages of ideas and dreams that I realized were utter teenage poo poo, that needed to be thrown away forever. If you can still write after knowing you'll be doing that, and still have new and exciting ideas, you've got a shot to make work you'll be proud of, regardless where it'll end up. Stuntcock fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2009 around 05:26 |
| # ? Sep 23, 2009 05:21 |
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Stuntcock posted:Hundreds of pages of ideas and dreams that I realized were utter teenage poo poo, that needed to be thrown away forever. If you can still write after knowing you'll be doing that, and still have new and exciting ideas, you've got a shot to make work you'll be proud of, regardless where it'll end up. This is perhaps half-rhetorical, but wouldn't the young writer be better served honing his skills, learning the basics of composition, and (above all else) studying fiction? Do you honestly feel that all those hours of "utter teenage poo poo" were paramount to your successes (if any)? This particular question isn't rhetorical at all; I'm curious. I've essentially put off writing novels, instead focusing on studying (informally) and writing shorts, until I felt "ready" to write a novel (which is "right now", as it turns out).
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 06:02 |
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epoch. posted:This is perhaps half-rhetorical, but wouldn't the young writer be better served honing his skills, learning the basics of composition, and (above all else) studying fiction? quote:Do you honestly feel that all those hours of "utter teenage poo poo" were paramount to your successes (if any)? This particular question isn't rhetorical at all; I'm curious. I've essentially put off writing novels, instead focusing on studying (informally) and writing shorts, until I felt "ready" to write a novel (which is "right now", as it turns out). I re-typed it in a computer from the manuscript, changing it all along the way, horrified at what I'd written, grateful to tell it again in a more structured, mannered, mature way. I learned more from that great effort than any other I can think of. Now, please, everyone, I don't mean to come across like someone who's published and big-shotty and all that. My accomplishments, or what I'm calling accomplishments, is that I've reached that part where you don't hate your work some time ago. Since then, I wrote a book that well-established writers I know very much like, which was a milestone. Then, I did another, completely different, and it's loving incredible to me. What's exciting, is that I know there;s more original material in me, I never stop thinking about it, I'm always working such things out in my head. I look forward to the time when I can make those tangible, as well. I am simply one who is at least 1,000 or more carefully-written pages ahead of most of you, and telling you that if you're enjoying it, and want to do something different that you're not wasting your time, and set your goals for completion, not necessarily publication! My plans, in order, are to (when I can afford the time, specifically,) go over my last book, save money to compensate the proofreader for her time (a noted, semi-famous professional who personally likes my work,) and either self-publish, or shop around while I go over my first book. Whatever happens, I don't know, but if I'm still in the mood, and time is mine to spend freely, pen the third idea, another odd tangent I'd love to see real. I'm a painter, a photographer, and an artist all-round, and have a lot of work all around the city, country, and overseas (and just starting to make money at it,) and writing, for me, is very important, even to just knock around in my head. It's something I want to be good at, something I want to be proud of. What makes writing different is that, unlike a painting or photo, you can't get instant feedback, so you're sort of on your own, it's a lonely road, until you find yourself in writing, that is, what it means to YOU. I'm not an expert, I'm just a little older than most of you, and have found the time to continue what most people leave behind, and am grateful for romper's thread and advise right there with you. Obviously, I'm taking his advice so seriously, I may bump up my plans for editing previous work. - Oh, and if I could write shorts, I would. I just can't. I don't like how they come out, at all. By all means, if you enjoy them, and are good at them, godspeed, I envy you! (typing in the near-dark on an unfamiliar keyboard with no backspace sucks) Stuntcock fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2009 around 06:38 |
| # ? Sep 23, 2009 06:23 |
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Funk In Shoe posted:Because sure, it's good to know what you need to do once you've, you know, written a book. quote:There is something wildly symptomatic about the fact that this thread, in one week, has ballooned to page four, while the thread for discussing fiction and writing is more or less deserted with only 1 or 2 new posts every day.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 06:38 |
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Thanks for your thoughts, Stuntcock. (A sentence I'd not imagined I'd ever write)
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 07:16 |
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epoch. posted:Thanks for your thoughts, Stuntcock. (A sentence I'd not imagined I'd ever write) Stuntcock is cool, fool. Also: 'A sentence I had not imagined I had ever write.' Ahahaha. Not trying to be a dick, but that really made me  .
Rainbow_Horse fucked around with this message at Sep 23, 2009 around 08:48 |
| # ? Sep 23, 2009 08:39 |
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I didn't mean it like that . . .
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 14:22 |
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Funk In Shoe posted:This thread and every Q&A session ever reads like the literary equivalent of a bunch of kids who just went out and bought their first guitars and started a garage band - only instead of signing up for guitar lessons or listening to music or practicing the basic chords like they should be, they immediately stormed out and started gathering information on "how do I organize a world tour?" - "does a record label come to me or should I approach them?" - "Are roadies organized in a union?" - "What would you think is the best average length for a song these days?" - "We're thinking we want to be a metal band but do you think Polka sells better these days, because we can do that, too!" "what am I going to do once I write my 1st #1 single" - "what should I wear on my album cover?", while their instruments are rotting away under dad's old stockpiled porn magazines. I don't want to derail, but I agree with a lot of what you have to say. Writing, first and foremost, should be everyone's priority. On the other hand, many of us in here have completed an ms and are interested in the next step. I'd also like to point out that in undergrad it was never explained to me how one went about getting their ms published. The implication seemed to be that we weren't even close to that point so it wasn't worth the time and effort to explain it. I was told how to send out a short story but not how to write a query letter or even that you needed an agent. In many ways, threads like this are necessary to demystify the process and educate people about the next step.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 15:47 |
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Rainbow_Horse posted:Also: 'A sentence I had not imagined I had ever write.' Ahahaha. Not trying to be a dick, but that really made me Actually that would be "A sentence I had not imagined I would ever write." ...Fool.
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| # ? Sep 23, 2009 21:49 |
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epoch. posted:This is perhaps half-rhetorical, but wouldn't the young writer be better served honing his skills, learning the basics of composition, and (above all else) studying fiction? I'm not Stuntcock, but I completed four novels between ages 14 and 18. Doing so was absolutely critical to my success, and practicing so much writing constantly was a huge key in me growing as a writer; as many authors have said before, you will learn best by writing and writing.
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| # ? Sep 24, 2009 03:21 |
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timeandtide posted:I'm not Stuntcock, but I completed four novels between ages 14 and 18. Doing so was absolutely critical to my success, and practicing so much writing constantly was a huge key in me growing as a writer; as many authors have said before, you will learn best by writing and writing. Obviously, from your experience, your writing must've been impressively matured before you were even legal to drink!
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| # ? Sep 25, 2009 20:36 |
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All my questions have been asked by others, I just want to say that you are awesome for starting this thread. Are you getting pounded with requests to critique the first 1,000 words of a manuscript? I might take you up on that.
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| # ? Sep 26, 2009 07:00 |
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6StringSamurai posted:Are you getting pounded with requests to critique the first 1,000 words of a manuscript? I might take you up on that. No, I've had about five requests so far, which is perfectly manageable. I'd be happy to take a look at yours; shoot me a PM, or else put it up on Google Docs or something.
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| # ? Sep 26, 2009 13:57 |
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Has your job changed your non-work-related reading habits? Have you found yourself tiring greatly of certain genres, or embracing others that you hadn't read much of before? I think getting paid to read sounds pretty drat interesting, although I imagine you end up having to slog through a lot of mediocre to awful stuff.
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| # ? Sep 27, 2009 10:07 |
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Anomalous Blowout posted:Has your job changed your non-work-related reading habits? I don't know if it's altered my reading habits all that much. If I'm reading a lot of unfamiliar material (paranormal romance or romance in general, children's lit, some subgenres of sci-fi), I usually do try to get recommendations about what to read so I know what gets published. This usually means free books from my agent, though, which is kind a of nice perk. In general, I like writing that's more literary than the stuff I typically read at the agency. But I've certainly learned to appreciate a lot more what goes into making a good children's, YA, or middle-grade. I now have a much deeper respect for children's authors whose books I read as a kid, like Richard Scarry, Eric Carle, Jon Scieszka, and Tomie dePaola, and for people like J.K. Rowling and Philip Pullman whose books I didn't discover until I was much older. I also appreciate writers like Salman Rushdie, James Joyce, Kurt Vonnegut, and Hunter S. Thompson whose writing is stylistically so unique but who can still tell good stories in their particular idiom. Most of all, I've learned to appreciate individual elements that work in a piece of writing, even if it's unsuccessful as a whole; I tend not to be hyper-critical unless something is really, richly deserving of it. I think it's made me a much more self-conscious writer and editor. As a reader, it's made me much more impatient with mediocre work, but much more patient with writing that's slow to develop.
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| # ? Sep 27, 2009 16:31 |
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Did any of the books that went over your desk turn into a huge success? Do you feel a sense of pride when you see that the book you accepted is well recieved? Did you ever regret not accepting a particular manuscript?
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| # ? Sep 27, 2009 17:52 |
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