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It also makes all your armies invisible on the strategic map. Scrying Eyes is the spell that grants map vision though. Between the two though it's hilariously easy to just go snipe the enemy capitol while their empire destroys itself internally and armies mass desert. Rogue late game owns. Btw, I find the real trick to using Incite Revolt is to layer it with Guild of Shadow Thieves. No matter which spell they disjunct first, they still lose.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:52
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Oh yeah, I must have conflated those two spells. What's so powerful about Guild of Shadow Thieves? Doesn't it just decrease the income generated by one of your enemy's cities? That sucks but doesn't really seem like a mortal blow for them.
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Jan 4, 2016 20:58
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Phlegmish posted:e: by the way, I played the fifth Commonwealth mission (Rockshoal Isles) 4v1 because I was too idiotic to figure out that you were supposed to ally at least one of the computer players, but on the other hand I actually won...on turn 149. Oh so early game???!
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Jan 4, 2016 21:05
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Phlegmish posted:Oh yeah, I must have conflated those two spells.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:09
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Splicer posted:It also increases yours by 5%. It's a mana to gold converter that also screws with your opponent. Yes, it increases your global gold income by 5% while cutting your opponents income for that city by half. Combined with Incite Revolt that city is more or less completely neutralized. In MP leaving Shadow Thieves up is untenable because you're making bank while their economy is getting hammered, unless they have a huge lead they're pretty boned. Against the AI it's less crippling, though still good, but the AI will waver over which spell to prioritize for disjunction, making it easier to keep on spreading revolts everywhere.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:46
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Speaking of rogue gameplay, I've been playing the Rockshoal Isles map in the Commonwealth campaign, and having lots of fun loving the enemies over with global spells. Also there was a city I that was a bit too well defended for me to take over with the troops I had nearby, so as an experiment I cast Plague of Brigands on it. I must say, three stacks of scoundrels and assassins throwing themselves at the walls softens up the defense quite handsomely. 
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Jan 5, 2016 01:41
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Gerblyn posted:You can get all the DLC on steam now for 20 euros (or 24 if you get the deluxe DLC as well)... Is the dollar pricing different? Sorry, I'm trying to figure out how the numbers in your post work. To be more precise ( sorry I was at work! ). If I bought the game during the sale, I can get Deluxe Edition of game/all DLC for $25. Everything, the whole package, for $25. This is a good deal, and makes sense. If I ever bought Age of Wonders prior to this sale, I still have to spend $25 for just the DLC. I have already spent between presumably $10-$30 buying the base game before this sale. Combined, this is anywhere from $35-$50 total price. I also do not get another copy of the base game to gift to a friend, I am paying the exact same price they are for the complete package for just the DLC. While this makes sense ( the DLC content is hefty and good, it is priced for that ), it also somewhat screws over the people who bought in initially/have owned the game for some time. Had I waited until now, I could have just gotten everything for $25. Now I spent $25ish? last year, and I have to spend $25 again this year. It's basically just odd that people just coming to AoW3 can get EVERYTHING ( $25 ) for the same price I just get the DLC for ( $25 ). Maybe the Euro prices make a little bit more sense? $$ wise it just feels off.
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Jan 5, 2016 02:38
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Nordick posted:Speaking of rogue gameplay, I've been playing the Rockshoal Isles map in the Commonwealth campaign, and having lots of fun loving the enemies over with global spells. Plague of Brigands can be really effective, it often leads to the city going independent unless the enemy has a full stack or good units there. Were you smart enough to ally one of the computer players on Rockshoal Isles?
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Jan 5, 2016 07:59
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Rookersh posted:Maybe the Euro prices make a little bit more sense? $$ wise it just feels off. Fair enough, I shall pass your comments on!
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Jan 5, 2016 09:02
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Phlegmish posted:Plague of Brigands can be really effective, it often leads to the city going independent unless the enemy has a full stack or good units there. I've been working on befriending the draconian rogue. She agreed to a peace treaty pretty easily, and then I bought her into breaking her alliance with her warlord buddy just before I demolished his rear end (dunno if that had any practical point but it just seemed like such a rogue thing to do), but an alliance seems to need some more buttering up. Been sending her some of my excess items as gifts. "Hey girl I really like you, here have this giant spider." 
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Jan 5, 2016 11:11
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I got the game for Christmas and have been tinkering with it since then, though I have a lot of other games distracting me so I haven't gotten so far. I did the tutorial mission and finished the first three maps of the Elven Court campaign. I gotta say the third map is pretty good design for teaching the player how to play the game - the previous maps I went out of my way to explore everywhere I could before taking on an opponent, and generally tried to build up a bit too, but the negative income and heaps of units shoved onto you basically forces you to march towards the Dwarves ASAP and I ended up conquering them before I built a single building in my Goblin cities. Which meant instead of wasting time getting my unit-production up to par in the Goblin cities I could start building upgraded Tier 2 and 3 Dwarf units instead. Handy! That said every map so far has basically followed the same pattern and it's getting a bit dispiriting. The first half is super-exciting with lots of exploration, skirmishes, Treasure Sites, important decisions on what to build and research, etc. I love it. The next quarter is a bit middling and I often end up using auto-combat and kinda meh. Then the rest is mostly tedious unit-ferrying-simulator, trying to get my army consolidated and across the map to the final opponent's borders so I can push in and crush him, while I have so much gold, knowledge and mana that I pretty much just produce stuff at random. At this point finishing things up is feeling so much like a chore it's kinda putting me off. Should I just be even more aggressive, are future maps better about this in some way?
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Jan 5, 2016 13:46
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Age of Wonders is basically turn-based Starcraft, it should be crazy reckless aggression all the way down. Endgame can be kind of a slog but with practice you'll find there's always a more efficient way of doing things. With the Elven Court campaign especially there are no slow missions, so go ham. Mind you I don't think anyone considers the original campaign to be especially good, more so after all the massive gameplay updates but it's a decent way to introduce you to the game. Just keep in mind that basically everything after the campaign (Random Maps, Expansion Campaigns, Play by Email, Multiplayer) is literally way more fun so don't feel obligated to slog through the entire campaign if it's not speaking to you. Do read my class guides linked in the OP if you get a chance, they're a little out of date but in terms of basic play style I think they're still pretty good.
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Jan 5, 2016 14:15
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can confirm: madmac's guides are pretty sweet
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Jan 5, 2016 14:55
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Did anyone ever find a good general tactical combat guide out there? I mean there's tons of specific advice buried in this thread, I just don't recall ever reading or watching anything that was about sort of tips and tricks for combat in general.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:05
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victrix posted:Did anyone ever find a good general tactical combat guide out there? I mean there's tons of specific advice buried in this thread, I just don't recall ever reading or watching anything that was about sort of tips and tricks for combat in general. It's not an answer per se, but in my opinion watching the AI helps a ton. They're just the right balance of good with tragic flaws, so you can learn from their mistakes as well as their good plays. However it will make fighting the AI loads easier.
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Jan 5, 2016 17:00
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victrix posted:Did anyone ever find a good general tactical combat guide out there? I mean there's tons of specific advice buried in this thread, I just don't recall ever reading or watching anything that was about sort of tips and tricks for combat in general. Always Be Flanking is rule number 1, number 2, and number 3. You should always order your attacks to maximize your flanks, and end your turn with as few as your units flankable as possible (that often means using defend with melee units!). The first half is something the AI is very good at; the second it's utterly terrible. As Nasgate says, watching the computer is a really solid way to learn these things. Second is that ranged units dominate. Expect in cases like like warlord or rogue, when you can mass a ton of melee units that are fast and hit hard, melee only serves as a meatshield. Look at the mp meta: the strongest combinations are hard-hitting ranged + road block melee (phantasms + supports, crusaders + supports, golems + muskets, hunters/supports + animal chaff, butchers + darters). Personally, I think a good ratio is 1.5-2 ranged for every melee. Third is be patient! This is something that I am very experienced at; if you have a slight advantage in healing and/or ranged firepower, take the time to slowly grind down the enemy. Even if you're only doing a few more damage a turn, you are winning! Smiling Knight fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 17:16
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Well, either there's some trick to diplomacy I'm not getting, or it's just hosed somehow. My relations with the AI rogue in Rockshoal Islands are sky-high after me showering her with gold gifts, yet she keeps declining my alliance proposals. She says "We'd prefer to focus our attention on stronger allies" eventhough I'm pretty sure I'm the strongest player on the map. Maybe I need to bring her a printer. Nordick fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 21:05
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That happened to me in a random map game, I had 1000+ relations with someone, but they still didn't want to become my ally. They kept repeating the stronger allies line, too. The game really isn't clear on this, if it is outright impossible to form an alliance with someone it should just tell you.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:21
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In nearly all campaign missions alliances are story locked. It's been a long time but I'm pretty sure you need to hit quest targets to get alliances in Rock Shoal isles. In RNG maps on the other hand the AI can just not be interested in allying with you for a variety of reasons. Honestly I find it easier to let the AI come to you with offers, if they do want to be your buddy they will pester you about it non-stop.
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Jan 5, 2016 21:36
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How do you get more than the first two bars of unit abilities show up in combat? My hero's ended up with a ton so some don't show.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:07
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madmac posted:In nearly all campaign missions alliances are story locked. It's been a long time but I'm pretty sure you need to hit quest targets to get alliances in Rock Shoal isles. In the quest log it just says "Gain at least one ally" without any elaboration, and there aren't any other side objectives or story triggers that would work towards that.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:27
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isn't rock shoal the one where you can destroy a dam to gain an ally
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Jan 6, 2016 00:29
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No, destroying the dam just weakens one of the AIs by loving up one of their cities. It didn't do jack poo poo to win me any allies. I guess the AI I'm trying to ally with just still trying to "win" the map by itself and doesn't think it needs any allies for that or whatever. There aren't even any other AIs left. I might just leave this campaign here and start with the expansion ones, I don't really fancy the tedious slog it would take to mop up this last stubborn wanker. Nordick fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 00:31
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Insurrectionist posted:How do you get more than the first two bars of unit abilities show up in combat? My hero's ended up with a ton so some don't show. You can't, but you can still use the abilities by opening the unit information window and clicking on them in the list.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:36
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Smiling Knight posted:You can't, but you can still use the abilities by opening the unit information window and clicking on them in the list. Ah alright, thanks.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:43
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you probably got spotted going near the dam. if you don't you get a dialogue option soon after you wreck it
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Jan 6, 2016 00:51
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Davincie posted:you probably got spotted going near the dam. if you don't you get a dialogue option soon after you wreck it Yeah, if no one spots you approaching the dam you get to scapegoat some other rear end in a top hat and pick up an ally. It's a much more important quest than game tells you, honestly. That said, the one time I beat that level I ended up with two allies, both of which loved me and waged unceasing war on each other until I eliminated everyone else and had to choose a consensual life partner.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:47
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madmac posted:Yeah, if no one spots you approaching the dam you get to scapegoat some other rear end in a top hat and pick up an ally. It's a much more important quest than game tells you, honestly.
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Jan 6, 2016 13:11
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I don't know that it's the only possible method of gaining an ally, I haven't played that campaign in a very long time, and when I did I had two allies, but it's definitely the easiest route to clearing the level.
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Jan 6, 2016 13:55
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Yeah I would imagine another method would be the actual diplomacy system. You know, since that's what it's supposedly there for. I'm sounding way more bummed out on this than I am, though. It's not really such a big issue since I can just move on to other campaigns. The vanilla game was kinda wearing out its welcome anyway.
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Jan 6, 2016 14:11
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Nordick posted:Yeah I would imagine another method would be the actual diplomacy system. You know, since that's what it's supposedly there for. You're not missing much in any case, the last commonwealth mission on the torchbearer path is almost identical to the elven court one. Going back to play the imperial path is more interesting IMO but the last two missions on that branch are an unholy slog, especially the last one, which makes you conquer a gigantic map filled with powerful elves using Edward as your lone playable hero. Play Golden Realms instead it's a lot more fun. If you ever get the completionist itch you can go back and finish the original campaigns whenever it's actually what I did back in the day.
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Jan 6, 2016 14:30
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Which reminds me, I never did make a Halfling guide, and we've got enough new people hanging around these days that it's probably worth doing. Don't Worry Be Happy, a Halfling Guide to Partying Every Day So Halflings are, oddly, the most divisive race in AoW 3. If you visit the cesspit that is the official forums you'll find an alarming number of people who hate the little buggers and everything they stand for and think they're unplayable, while here in Goon Central it is well known that Halflings own and win all the games. Halflings, in a nutshell, are a race that likes to live the good life. Their frail, flabby bodies are unsuited for the rigors of war and most of their racial units are just hastily drafted civilians and unusually dangerous clowns. What evens the odds for Halflings is that they are blessed by the love of Nuffle to the extent that every halflings personal level of joy lifts their innate RNG powers to new heights. Put simply, for Halflings, morale is power. In defense, attack, and even in economy, halfling joy directly translates to transcendent but fickle godlike power. This means that playing Halflings well lies mostly in understanding unit, empire, and race happiness and how it can work for you. Happiness management is it's own complicated subject that I won't spend too much time on here, but just be aware that it pays off literally everywhere, and most of all for Halflings, who are in all ways optimized to take full advantage of high morale and the benefits it brings. Happy cities have higher income and production and a higher chance of throwing various parties and celebrations that can give you additional resources, instant unit/building completion, and even faction-wide unit buffs. High Morale on units greatly increases your chance of landing critical hits in battle, in addition to Halflings defensive luck properties that we'll talk about in a minute. The inverse is also true, of course. Unhappy Halflings are the weakest, squishiest race in the game by a large margin. All right, lets get down to hard numbers, these are the Halfling Racial Traits: +1 Physical Ranged Attacks Forestry Lucky -1 Physical Melee Attacks 20% Weakness to Physical Attacks All Cities +50 Base happiness Halflings like Fertile Plains and Dense Vegetation They dislike Subterranean They Hate Arctic, Blighted, and Volcanic Terrain/climate So Halflings have a bit of elfiness in them with their forest navigation and strong ranged attacks, however they are pretty awful in melee with the reduced melee damage and crippling weakness to the most common damage type in the game. Note that their physical weakness, like all weaknesses applies as much to effects as raw damage, halflings are highly vulnerable to being trapped in nets and bleed easy. (They even take 5 damage/turn from bleeding instead of 4) Luck of course is the central Halfling Mechanic. At a base level of happiness it translates to a 10% chance for halfling units to arbitrarily avoid any attack. I mean literally anything, attacks, spells, status effects, various forms of bad touches, anything. It's both amazingly powerful and completely unreliable on an individual unit basis. Sometimes one guy will magic away 6 hits in a row, sometimes Nuffle just hates you personally and wants you to die. As Halfling's morale increases so does their Luck, topping off at 25%. However, if a Halfling gets a second instance of Luck from any effect (It's not so rare a thing) then they instead become Very Lucky, which scales up to somewhere around 50% RNG bullshittery, I forget the exact number just rest assured it's rage-quit inducing. The obvious flipside of course is that a sufficiently depressed Halfling loses their luck altogether and gets splatted like a bug by pretty much anything. Halfling battles are often literally decided by morale. Halflings also have a shitload of liked/disliked terrain, this is important to keep track of. They like bright, sunny areas pretty much and anything else depresses the hell out of them. This tends to make Halflings a bit turtle-ish in actual play, as they are very powerful in their home terrain but highly vulnerable outside of it. There are various ways to mitigate this but Warlords, Druids, and Dreadnaughts especially have some very helpful global spells, and taking Creation Adept/Mastery for the ability to spread liked terrain is sometimes worth considering. Getting into Golden Realm added mechanics, the Halfling defensive building is the always Fearsome Rabbit Burrows (Attacks a single unit 3 times for 6 physical damage, has a chance to inflict Misfortune.) The Halfling Defensive building is highly optimized to slaughter attacking halflings and meh against anything else. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from this. Before we get into the Racial Governance tree, lets spare a moment to talk about Halfling Racial Units. Halfling Adventurer Arguably the best basic irregular in the whole drat game. The Adventurer is just shy of being a shortbow unit on city defense, and it doubles as a very effective creeping unit due to the combination of Monster/Animal Slayer making it effectively a 10 x3 attacker vs a lot of common neutrals. Their effective range is pretty short but in terms of overall utility this is basically the T1 Halfling unit you will use for everything early to mid game. Halfling Nightwatch Honestly, gets a bit of a bad rap, with Military 1 especially this guy becomes a pretty decent early game tank and you certainly want something to screen your slingers with. Still there's no denying that this is one of the weaker T1 infantry units and people barely use T1 infantry in this game to start with so you will probably not actually build these dudes ever and that's fine. They do have a couple interesting traits though, they have innate urban concealment which means they are invisible garrison units that you can technically set traps with, and they get backstab at gold which combined with high morale makes them stabby little fuckers if they happen to live that long. Halfling Jester Say what you will, seeing these guys pull out what amounts to a bazooka and blasting some random mofo never gets old. Jesters are very good, but also hard to leverage in bulk. In practice most people end up using Adventurers as their mainline range guys with a few Jesters as support. The problem with Jesters is mostly just that they are one of the squishiest archer types around, and the AI aggros them to an unbelievable degree. It can be tricky to keep them alive even in tactical combat, autocombat is just instant death. All that said, their actual ranged attack is ridiculously useful. Shoot Fireworks is like a heavy crossbow attack with no range penalties, split physical/fire damage, and a powerful AOE debuff. Inflict Dazzled does two things, one, it has a chance to frighten animals, and more importantly a Dazzled Unit loses all retaliation attacks. For Halfling melee units, which tend to hit hard but get wrecked by retaliations, this basically just turns a guy into a huge flashing pinata. Certain Halfling class units can also get the Shoot Fireworks ability, and every one of them is a treasure. Halfling Farmer As Pikes go...Farmers are pretty much the worst. They will do if you really need pikes for some reason and have no better option, but really they're not great. Like most Halfling units they do have an ace up their sleeve, and for Farmers it's the mighty Throw Chicken. Never underestimate the ability of hurled poultry to ruin your best laid plans. Some people swear by Farmers and basically mass them for creeping and just chicken everything to death. It's not my bag, but I can see how it works. Basically think of Farmers as powerful one-shot ranged units that also double as barely acceptable melee and they're not all bad. Brew Brothers I feel like I'm being hard on Halfling Racials today, and honestly it's not like that. Halflings just lean heavily on their amazing class units and the racial units that are good are really, really good. I don't personally consider Brew Brothers one of the good ones, but they are great to have as early game clearing support. Nourishing Meal is just that good, it's a strong (15 HP) heal that also buffs morale and uniquely, can be cast before taking any damage to buff max HP instead of having to use it reactively. It is probably the best racial healing ability in the game. Brew Brothers are also a bit tankier than your average support and get Minor Bard Skills at gold, which is a hugely useful buff for Halflings. The problem with Brew Brothers is just that their ranged attack is short ranged to the point of being virtually useless, plus it does physical damage so it leaves Halflings highly vulnerable to physical resistant enemies like wraiths, and most of all the fact that nearly all Halfling Class Support units get Minor Bard Skills as a starting perk. There's just not much value to Brew Brothers outside their really great heal. Pony Riders Pony Riders are a mainstay Halfling unit. A bit slower and weaker than your average T2 cav unit, but also a fair bit cheaper and for Halflings the best melee unit you can field for a good chunk of the game. They are the only armored racial unit for Halflings, so they synergize well with Dreads and just in general with solid defensive stats, high resistance (Highest of any T2 Cav) and lucky they are your default Halfling Tank unit throughout the game. You will use a lot of ponies and you will like them. They also get Strong Will at gold, which adds to their all around defensive nature and high protection against magical effects. Eagle Riders Eagle Riders are the loving bomb. One of the Cheapest Racial T3s in the game, unquestionably the fastest (36 flying movement) on or off the strategic map, and optimized for big damage plays. Sure, they only have 13 base damage, but they also get armor piercing and backstab with medals, and by the point in the game that you're massing Eagles they should have sky high morale for those big damage crits. Eagle Riders special attack is wingbeat, which is a small aoe attack they can use every other turn with no retaliations. Eagles are essentially bombers. They swoop in from outside most units effective range and land devastating aoe flank attacks. I have used Eagle Riders in MP to wipe out all opposing ranged units in a single turn, they are absolutely a crazy unit if you use them carefully. So that's your racial units. Halflings also have various amazing class units but it's too long a list to go into. Suffice to say that the most common bonus perks for Halfling class units are Minor Bard Skills on Supports, which is super great, and slings on various normally weak ranged units like Scoundrels, Martyrs, and Bards, which is also great. In general Halfling class units are pretty amazing and should be used constantly. Now, moving on to Eternal Lords Mechanics, a quick look at Halfling Racial Governance. Level 1 Nightwatch gains +2 Dam/+1 def or Storehouses cost 35 gp less. Neither of these are amazing but they are decent enough early game. I tend to grab military if I start with a bunch of Nightwatch (It pays off, really!) and storehouses otherwise. Level 2 All Halfling Sling units get +1 ranged damage or Bathhouses Provide +75 City Happiness. While the City Bath combos pretty well with cheaper storehouses and Halfling strategies generally I have never not taken military here. It's worth it for buffed Adventurers alone, and amazing for Rogues/Theocrats, especially if you're doing an evolve rush. Level 3 Eagle Riders gain Very Lucky or Lucky Cloverfields (Tombs, for Necromancers) provide hefty city bonuses. Very Lucky Eagle Riders are incredible, always bet on Eagles. Level 4 All Halfling units +200 morale or all Halfling cities +150 Morale. I really like how complimentary these choices are, but I gotta say, unit morale is hard to argue with. That said, taking all the econ buffs together combos with Econ 5 in a pretty insane way, so it's an interesting alternative strat that I've never fully committed to. Level 5 All Halfling Infantry/Cav/Pikes gain +10 HP and +2 Melee Damage, or Happiness Bonus Events happen twice as often. While turning your squishy halflings into manly muscle men is pretty tempting, don't ever underestimate Econ 5. IMO it's secretly one of the best racial governance bonuses in the game, if you've been pumping up city happiness up to this point (And why wouldn't you, playing Halflings) taking this tech means non-stop parties everywhere, virtually every turn. It's mind boggling to see in practice. And that's Halflings! Keep turning those frowns upside down and you'll do well. madmac fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 16:08
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i never noticed that you never did halflings paging thyrork to put it in the op
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Jan 6, 2016 18:19
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I though I retired, but madmac just keeps bringing me back. <3 What a trooper.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:36
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So I've been playing the first mission of the Golden Realms campaign and can confirm that Halflings indeed are the tits. I got lucky and found a jewel item really early that gives the hero Bard Skills, which stacks with Minor Bard Skills from support units, so my leader's army's morale is through the roof and it's just a thing of beauty. Also Halfling Monster Hunters, holy poo poo. I thought the dwarven ones were good with their heavy crossbow, but these guys have a loving disco bazooka and with the monster hunter's "loving everything slayer" it just wrecks face all day. I love these guys.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:24
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Never underestimate the the excellence of massed Halfling Monster Hunters. Hit a unit with enough fireworks and your hero can just saunter up and casually annihilate them; incidentally great for feeding kills to the heroes or other designated beatsticks.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:51
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halfling warlord is a viable combo largely because halfling monster hunters are the best monster hunters in the game
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Jan 7, 2016 11:43
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Lucky also sort of fills Warlords biggest weakness, low magic resistance.
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Jan 7, 2016 12:26
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Possibly too vague of a question, but for people tackling RMG games, how hard (if at all) do you bother trying to preserve units? Do you simply churn out as many units as possible from as many cities as possible and throw them into the grinder? Or do you make an effort to feed certain units xp, babysit others to level them, etc? How many stacks do you try to manage? One for every hero? Tons regardless of hero presence?
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Jan 7, 2016 17:31
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you don't want to lose units losing units is bad 3 stacks worth of units is a good size for an army, just because that's the largest amount you can consistently bring into a single battle. how many armies you want to have is mostly dependent on your gold income, i'd say. but once you have one 3stack moving on your enemy empire, anything further is just wanting to hit them in 2 places at once. in terms of feeding units xp and such i can't say, since i only play live MP and that's 90% autobattling. i know in PBEM xp feeding shenanigans are really huge, so if you're manual battling a lot then yeah, maybe keep that in mind
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Jan 7, 2016 18:23
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